Author Topic: 60 ft blues  (Read 3165 times)

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Offline wmsonta

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Re: 60 ft blues
« Reply #30 on: July 14 2019, 09:39:07 AM »
I will respond. First, I do not tell anybody what they should do/buy. I deal with a number of people/cars. I am well aware of who puts the sweat, time, effort, skinned knuckles and money in these cars.
So the flat spot is good?
The flat spot is a consequence of stall converters. If yours is a LU and was locked before that rpm, there would be no flat spot. I have guys who data log, foot brake and flash stall a 5800 converter from about 2000 rpm. They do not need to circle the flat spot.
Iíve been try to get the cars time slip to be like the Wallace slip, itís close.
Wallace is physics and math. It saves me from doing it myself. Wallace should be taken as what is possible in a perfect world. Power adder cars will mph high for the ET and turbo Buick's are not perfect race cars. Street/strip cars are not as efficient as dedicated race cars. As I have said, I like where you are for what you have. Just my opinion.
Wheel spin is hard to control some times,hopping the new MT PBR will help.
G-body rr suspension has been beat to death. Just as there are economic 'black swans', there will always be that one guy who went 1.xx with x,y or z. Most never get in the 1.6x. Let alone making clean runs.Decide how important street is vs going a few hundredths quicker 60's. If you can not stand the car blowing the tires away whenever it wants, alter the suspension.
Know for the converter Iím pulling it out to possibly make it stall a little higher to help the short time and tighten up the top ( got 10% slip through the traps).Iím open for help here.
Things to think about.The stall is pretty high now. About 5000.
Higher stall typically will exhibit higher slippage.
You are having some amount of problems holding the tires now.

Offline Steve Wood

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Re: 60 ft blues
« Reply #31 on: July 14 2019, 09:45:21 AM »
The only area that looks funny to me is the area that I marked in red.  Something is going on there.  MPH rate of acceleration seems to flatten out for a bit


The RPM graph shoots up, flattens out, then takes off again.  I don't know if the converter flashed up, held until the car caught up, or what, but the MPH seems to be flattened for a moment.


It does not seem to coincide with the car being too rich for low gear.  I also see you lost some boost in this period.

I just read the post above mine and I agree that the stall is more than high enough for your combo...


I am not as enamored with the converter as others, but, it seems to be doing what converters do.  I don't think we have enuf info to call this one. 
« Last Edit: July 14 2019, 09:59:31 AM by Steve Wood »
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Offline wmsonta

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Re: 60 ft blues
« Reply #32 on: July 14 2019, 09:59:46 AM »
I see what you are pointing out. However, is that the converter? If so, will the next one be better or worse?

I know a guy a few years ago, who bought 5 nitrous converters just to get 3500 rpm stall. A number of racers tried to tell him, stall is not a finite quality. More money in converters than the rest of his car. He did not seem to mind and I certainly did not. For those that do not know me, this is not a criticism.

Offline Steve Wood

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Re: 60 ft blues
« Reply #33 on: July 14 2019, 10:05:51 AM »
I don't recall blaming the converter.  I think the current converter has too much stall as I think it should be closer to 4000 than 5000.  I just don't see anything great about apparent converter performance, or any reason to make it even higher.


I see some strange things going on but as I said, I don't think we have enuf evidence to blame it on anything at this point.


I would sort out his apparent false knock problem as pulling a bunch of timing on the shift will not do anything for performance.
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Offline 1 RARE T

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Re: 60 ft blues
« Reply #34 on: July 14 2019, 10:15:16 AM »
I think it's lean in high gear.


My car loved fuel being put to it.

Offline Steve Wood

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Re: 60 ft blues
« Reply #35 on: July 14 2019, 10:18:21 AM »
I am not good at reading these scales, but, it does look lean
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Re: 60 ft blues
« Reply #36 on: July 14 2019, 10:38:10 AM »
That's what stood out to me Steve. 25psi and that kind of RPM I would expect more wheel speed.


Tim, if your happy with the way the car runs, drives, handles, etc - put the slick back on and just enjoy it. If you enjoy the challenge - getting the Radial to work, should net you some ET/MPH. In the end you need to be happy with it.












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Offline Steve Wood

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Re: 60 ft blues
« Reply #37 on: July 14 2019, 10:43:10 AM »
Looking at the boost drop, it looked like the load came off the engine causing the boost to come down a bit...


I agree, do what Jeremy said :)
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Offline Tim Hensley

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Re: 60 ft blues
« Reply #38 on: July 14 2019, 02:05:57 PM »
All this talk just keeps opening my eyes and mind to better understanding. And like Steve says lots of broken parts donít make me a racer. Donít what to be that guy.
5000? Thatís up there donít need it any higher for sure. I should be able to work with what I have and not worry about the 10% slip itís a None  Locking.


Thanks Steve your right Buick people have a good converter in the PCI from Dusty,I went with Lonnie because this converter has a sprag and new there would be some challenges. I will take time to think about the stall being to high,I can overthink this stuff sometimes. And a light came on with this torque multiplication thing

Thanks nocooler Yes Iím happy with it how it drives on the street.


Thanks rare T Iíll look at that down the road thought it was a bit rich up there and was mostly looking at the short time stuff.
 
I think in the hot part of the day Iíll push the fluid back in the trans and look for what came lose to cause the false KR.plugs have no sign of real knock.








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Offline reality

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Re: 60 ft blues
« Reply #39 on: July 14 2019, 03:04:05 PM »
I'm missing something here. Where are we seeing 5000 rpm stall? The first sentence in the first post says 3100 rpm at 15 lbs of boost. that seems low to me. Also dropping 1000 rpm on the shifts.
And the OP said Lonnie said to make changes somewhere on here.
 To quote Brad ''school me''.

Offline reality

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Re: 60 ft blues
« Reply #40 on: July 14 2019, 03:13:43 PM »
SORRY duplicate post
« Last Edit: July 14 2019, 03:19:07 PM by reality »

Online nocooler

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Re: 60 ft blues
« Reply #41 on: July 14 2019, 03:41:18 PM »
Heís leaving at 3100 off a 2step. You can see the rpms go to 5000ish and hangs as the converter is coupling and levels off then continue to rise. Steve marked it out in red. I still see opportunity to test different rpm/boost and see what happens.


Itís loose enough to spool his combo and Heís not blowing thru the converter out the back if the slip is 10%. We donít know what it was specíd for - there could have been a future turbo upgrade planned down the road. We donít even know what density altitude he runs in.




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Offline reality

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Re: 60 ft blues
« Reply #42 on: July 14 2019, 03:51:16 PM »
Thank you

Offline Steve Wood

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Re: 60 ft blues
« Reply #43 on: July 14 2019, 05:18:21 PM »
Now that we see where the 5000 rpm comes from, I will again state that the boost dropped a couple of pounds in that area and that the wheel speed acceleration also slowed momentarily in the same time period.


Normally, I would have expected the boost to stay more steady and the rate of speed increase to be about the same in that area.


Tim, when I said I was not as enamored with the converter as others, I was referring to what seemed to be an approval of its performance based on the short time.  I thought The 10% slip on top was pretty damn good.  My first thought was that the alky drowned it but that is not what the A/F suggests to me.  That usually happens at lower rpms, anyway.


I am surprised it dropped a 1000 rpm on the shift.  That says the converter is pretty damn tight and it is pulling it back to that magic 5000 LOL rpm again but we (I) don't see the drop in rate of mph acceleration.  I would have expected it to be more like 500-700 rpm.


As you said, Tim, I would look into the false detonation as it can slow you down when it pulls timing of any amount. False detonation can come from several things...even a little hop in the rear tires will do it on a shift...  It could be that hard drop on the shift...


As I said way back, I would see what happens when the two step is off.  Take as many variables out of the equation as possible for testing.  Let the variable be your driving style :)


Look at your BLM correction box and see how hard the ecm is working to get the requested A/F.  You might be able to help it out with a change in the factor.


You might also leave the timing on Eric's defaults for the time being.











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Offline Tim Hensley

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Re: 60 ft blues
« Reply #44 on: July 14 2019, 07:30:08 PM »
Lots to take in Steve your right just looked at half a dozen logs all go to 25ish and drop to 22 ,after the 1-2 shift then back to 25 and smooth out.
Each shift dropped to 4700
Iíve made 24 passes with this converter no KR tell the last pass #24 and pass #22
BLM were a tad high around 145 and I made a adjustment to 135 that adjustment was pass 5  and BLM have been staying under 130-135 as I added timing it has slowly dropped too. Only added 1.4 degree. Lonnie felt 10 was a tad high but not worth chasing just that number not been back to the track without the 2step but it out.


No future changes converter is for this setup. I live in Hawaii and track is probably 200 ft or less.


Iíll push post and go look for the false KR. I have a RJC mount and stock motor mount
Arizona GN109 forged rotating assembly
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Extreme Auto stage II trans and converter