Author Topic: Turbo Tech  (Read 3815 times)

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Offline BoostedRPS

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Re: Turbo Tech
« Reply #120 on: July 11 2018, 10:03:24 PM »
Tradeoffs? backpressure vs?  effect of the air mass? myths?


Tradeoffs? What do you mean, specifically? Could you please elaborate?


Effect of the air mass.....as it relates to what? What do you mean by that?


Myths? I apologize, but at the moment I can't recall any myths about intercoolers.. ....do you mean like the "bigger is better" idea? Or like to "bigger piping is better" idea?




So far I have the following sections with definitions and explanations;
1) Diffusion
2) Boundary Layer
3) Pressure Drop
4) Thermal Efficiency
5) Internal Flow Area


After that I don't have anything. So if you want me to discuss one of your points you listed, if you could please elaborate more on what you meant, it helps me to know what I would need/want to write about, and how I'd like to approach the subject matter.


Thank you,
Tyler

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Re: Turbo Tech
« Reply #121 on: July 12 2018, 09:03:00 AM »
I don't know if things we think are Myths- I was hoping you would tell us :)

Does one get lag from a large mass of air sitting in long runs of pipes (FMIC?)
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Re: Turbo Tech
« Reply #122 on: July 12 2018, 01:59:37 PM »
I don't know if things we think are Myths- I was hoping you would tell us :)

Does one get lag from a large mass of air sitting in long runs of pipes (FMIC?)

Myth: Man with hole in pocket feels cocky all day.

Fact: I have never done this...yet.


Like those kind of myths?


...kidding

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Re: Turbo Tech
« Reply #123 on: July 12 2018, 02:37:49 PM »
My neighbor thought the same thing when I was building it...


There is a built in thumper in the bottom so it could be used as a bong as long as the low octane condensate drain is plugged.

It'd take one hellova set of lungs though.  lol


I've come across a female or two with "huge Lungs" and I bet earl has too.
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Re: Turbo Tech
« Reply #124 on: July 23 2018, 08:47:16 PM »
First pic of the new WORK G4 62mm compressor wheel..


Checkout the vertical lines on the compressor blades. This is a sign of a 100% Point-Milled wheel.


Also look at how the blade swoops down and has overhang/extends past the very bottom/base of the wheel. This is a sign of Extended Tip Technology being used. Look at the angle of that the blade takes from the Extended Tip towards the base of the wheel...this angle has a direct affect on the spool up characteristic s, breadth of the powderband, and part-throttle responsiveness ..





These wheels are about to upset some PTE fan's feelings... :D

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Re: Turbo Tech
« Reply #125 on: July 23 2018, 09:07:51 PM »
How close is this to the 6262 wheel...as a comparison.
109 235 Cubic Inch Stock Stroke Balanced Rotating Assembly
Stock Crank
TRW .030 Pistons
Stock Rods
Stock Timing Chain/Gears
212/212 Flat Tappet Cam
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5.7 TT Race Chip
Built 2004R
AC 16930
6262 JB

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Re: Turbo Tech
« Reply #126 on: July 23 2018, 10:50:43 PM »
How close is this to the 6262 wheel...as a comparison.

Until I have dyno sheets or ET slips in front of me, I can only speculate based on the design of the wheel.

That being said, I know Reed really focused on the spoolup characteristic s of these new turbos, and their off-idle and part-throttle responsiveness .

I don't want to say anything definitive until I hear back from Reed, but I would wager these would be right up there with Precision's GEN 2 CEA 62mm wheel, or Garrett's Gen 2 GTX wheels.

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Re: Turbo Tech
« Reply #127 on: July 23 2018, 11:00:25 PM »
Basically what I'm asking is can I spool this WORK G4 62mm wheel with the AC 16930 convertor I already have in the car. I run a .63 Precision exhaust housing. What exhaust housings are you offering?
109 235 Cubic Inch Stock Stroke Balanced Rotating Assembly
Stock Crank
TRW .030 Pistons
Stock Rods
Stock Timing Chain/Gears
212/212 Flat Tappet Cam
JB Racing Heads
Stock Rockers
5.7 TT Race Chip
Built 2004R
AC 16930
6262 JB

6.72 at 104.67-25 PSI

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Re: Turbo Tech
« Reply #128 on: July 24 2018, 08:20:20 AM »
That is some pretty fancy machine work porn. So, forgive my ignorance(I run a stock turbo), but I guess these are a "replacement part for one of the "fancy" turbos? I see it is 62mm I'm guessing you need a matching housing to put this wheel in, or can it be swapped into other stuff? Is there a fancy replacement wheel that matches it for the other side of the turbo?

Rich

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Re: Turbo Tech
« Reply #129 on: July 24 2018, 11:26:52 AM »
That is some pretty fancy machine work porn. So, forgive my ignorance(I run a stock turbo), but I guess these are a "replacement part for one of the "fancy" turbos? I see it is 62mm I'm guessing you need a matching housing to put this wheel in, or can it be swapped into other stuff? Is there a fancy replacement wheel that matches it for the other side of the turbo?


This is a wheel for one of the new G4 turbos, or it can be put into a rebuilt turbo as well, provided the turbo has a similar shaft size (for example, it isn't one of the old Turbonetics large-shaft units) to the G4 units.


WORK will actually machine your housing to fit this wheel, if you were to get your turbo rebuilt, for example. So you are able to put this wheel into other turbos besides the G4 units.


There are new turbine wheels for this turbo, but I do not have any photos of it yet. I know Reed uses some of the GTW turbine wheels for the G4 turbos.


I hope that answered all your questions. Please let me know if I didn't address anything.... I'm at Tom's house right now and his crazy ass has me up at 630am...I hate him just a little bit right now... (completely kidding, the dude is one of the coolest fucking people I've met)


[/size]Basically what I'm asking is can I spool this WORK G4 62mm wheel with the AC 16930 convertor I already have in the car. I run a .63 Precision exhaust housing. What exhaust housings are you offering?



If it is a "Real" Art Carr 3000 stall, then yes. From what I've gathered, and I know you will be able to set me straight on this so please correct me where I am wrong (because I am sure I will be)..but aren't those AC 16930's essentially a PTC 9.5" knockoff? Or maybe visa-versa?


Either way, Reed recommends to start with a 3,200 stall as a baseline for any turbo he sells, assuming you are using a PTC 9.5" NLU, though. From there, we can work with Dusty Bradford to fix any spooling characteristic s/stall speed required by your setup, but the 3,200 will give a good baseline impression.


If your car is spooling a PTE 6262 with that converter, then it will be able to spool this turbo easily, in both the journal and ball bearing versions. The ball bearing version will spool even faster, especially with the supporting modifications (ported cylinder heads, E85 for fuel, larger than stock camshaft, good torque converter -like a PTC 9.5" NLU) to the car.


We offer a .63 and .85 AR turbine housing for the Buick 3-bolt housings.


If you decide to go 4 bolt, we have a TON of different configurations .


I hope this answered your questions. If not, please let me know.

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Re: Turbo Tech
« Reply #130 on: July 24 2018, 12:10:29 PM »
Basically what I'm asking is can I spool this WORK G4 62mm wheel with the AC 16930 convertor I already have in the car. I run a .63 Precision exhaust housing. What exhaust housings are you offering?


If it is a "Real" Art Carr 3000 stall, then yes. From what I've gathered, and I know you will be able to set me straight on this so please correct me where I am wrong (because I am sure I will be)..but aren't those AC 16930's essentially a PTC 9.5" knockoff? Or maybe visa-versa?


Either way, Reed recommends to start with a 3,200 stall as a baseline for any turbo he sells, assuming you are using a PTC 9.5" NLU, though. From there, we can work with Dusty Bradford to fix any spooling characteristic s/stall speed required by your setup, but the 3,200 will give a good baseline impression.

If your car is spooling a PTE 6262 with that converter, then it will be able to spool this turbo easily, in both the journal and ball bearing versions. The ball bearing version will spool even faster, especially with the supporting modifications (ported cylinder heads, E85 for fuel, larger than stock camshaft, good torque converter -like a PTC 9.5" NLU) to the car.

We offer a .63 and .85 AR turbine housing for the Buick 3-bolt housings.

If you decide to go 4 bolt, we have a TON of different configurations .

See... this is what pisses me off about the Buick community - stuck in the past with a total reluctance to move past known-knowns established 20 years ago.  ScanMasters, using NB02s to tune under load, tuning with fuel pressure, Caspers knock gauges, a limited selection of 3-bolt turbos, antiquated converter theory and technology, internal wastegate downpipes with stupid little rod actuators, the ever loving fear of BOVs, and on and on...

Why not get a nice new converter that flashes to 4000rpm, has more efficient turbines and stators (for low speed driveability and better fluid coupling at the big end), and lock-up capability?  Why not chop the damn 3-bolt flange off and get something that seals well? They literally sell CNC 4-bolt flanges on eBay for $50 that will adapt a round pipe to a square flange (I know I have one - and it is gorgeous) and suddenly your world of performance options grows exponentially.  Why not add a 44mm WG, and slam a v-banded downpipe together with some eBay parts and Harbor Freight welder?

Risk and effort - that's why.  People their love of a risk-free bolt-on culture.  Take a damn welding class.

I think BoostedRPS needs to make package with a new PS exhaust manifold with a 4-bolt flange and external WG flange on it, offer up a bunch of decent T4-type turbos, a downpipe with an external wastegate dump tube, a spec converter, and a good intercooler - might have to have a lay-away payment plan.

Rant over.
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Offline BoostedRPS

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Re: Turbo Tech
« Reply #131 on: July 24 2018, 01:05:54 PM »
Basically what I'm asking is can I spool this WORK G4 62mm wheel with the AC 16930 convertor I already have in the car. I run a .63 Precision exhaust housing. What exhaust housings are you offering?


If it is a "Real" Art Carr 3000 stall, then yes. From what I've gathered, and I know you will be able to set me straight on this so please correct me where I am wrong (because I am sure I will be)..but aren't those AC 16930's essentially a PTC 9.5" knockoff? Or maybe visa-versa?


Either way, Reed recommends to start with a 3,200 stall as a baselinefor any turbo he sells, assuming you are using a PTC 9.5" NLU, though. From there, we can work with Dusty Bradford to fix any spooling characteristic s/stall speed required by your setup, but the 3,200 will give a good baseline impression.

If your car is spooling a PTE 6262 with that converter, then it will be able to spool this turbo easily, in both the journal and ball bearing versions. The ball bearing version will spool even faster, especially with the supporting modifications (ported cylinder heads, E85 for fuel, larger than stock camshaft, good torque converter -like a PTC 9.5" NLU) to the car.

We offer a .63 and .85 AR turbine housing for the Buick 3-bolt housings.

If you decide to go 4 bolt, we have a TON of different configurations .

See... this is what pisses me off about the Buick community - stuck in the past with a total reluctance to move past known-knowns established 20 years ago.  ScanMasters, using NB02s to tune under load, tuning with fuel pressure, Caspers knock gauges, a limited selection of 3-bolt turbos, antiquated converter theory and technology, internal wastegate downpipes with stupid little rod actuators, the ever loving fear of BOVs, and on and on...

Why not get a nice new converter that flashes to 4000rpm, has more efficient turbines and stators (for low speed driveability and better fluid coupling at the big end), and lock-up capability?  Why not chop the damn 3-bolt flange off and get something that seals well? They literally sell CNC 4-bolt flanges on eBay for $50 that will adapt a round pipe to a square flange (I know I have one - and it is gorgeous) and suddenly your world of performance options grows exponentially.  Why not add a 44mm WG, and slam a v-banded downpipe together with some eBay parts and Harbor Freight welder?

Risk and effort - that's why.  People their love of a risk-free bolt-on culture.  Take a damn welding class.

I think BoostedRPS needs to make package with a new PS exhaust manifold with a 4-bolt flange and external WG flange on it, offer up a bunch of decent T4-type turbos, a downpipe with an external wastegate dump tube, a spec converter, and a good intercooler - might have to have a lay-away payment plan.

Rant over.


I actually do have a package deal for;
*Gee M Racing Street Headers in a 4-bolt, external wastegate configuration.
*PTC 9.5" converter that will be spec'd by Dusty Bradford (I would have you order direct through him, or I could 3way call with you if requested).
*Turbosmart external wastegate for the headers.
*If you go with a Borg Warner 4-bolt housing, Gee M Racing is producing a V-band downpipe to fit in our cars for it. But it is ONLY for Borg Warner 4-bolt housings.
*ANY Turbo WORK Turbo offers; Garrett GTX Gen 2's, GTW's.. or Borg Warner SXE's or EFR's (although I wouldn't recommend these)... or WORK Rebuilt units, standard Billet Units, or G4 units..
*Treadstone and Bell front mount intercooler cores. Currently we do not have the mounting flanges and piping made for these, but we are working on them.
*We also have the only stock location liquid-to-air intercooler complete kit available for the TR.


That is an expensive kit, just from the quantity of quality parts included, but if you were to put a "kit" like that on your car, assuming your engine and transmission could take it, you're talking about bolting on parts to your car that could easily...easily drop your car's ET up to 2 seconds, assuming your engine and trans can support it.




On a side note...if you go 4 bolt flange, you might as well go Twin Scroll. I know the cost is more because of running dual wastegates, but the benefits in performance far outweigh the slight cost increase..

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Re: Turbo Tech
« Reply #132 on: July 24 2018, 01:15:23 PM »
The ptc would be the knock off but I doubt they would like being called that. Art Carr has been doing these cars pretty much since new. The 9" nlu works great at the track but I didn't find it as streetable as i wanted back when. I'd look at the Dave H 3021 or something along those lines, or Mr bison has some pretty opinionated stances on converters. Or Mr Bradford. He reps a real nice unit.

This talk of four bolt is very interesting. I might look at this Billy thing and cut up one of my pass side units and weld on a patch and se how that might work. Ever really thought about it before.

Good stuff. Very thought provoking. Now I need to justify a tig machine.
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Re: Turbo Tech
« Reply #133 on: July 24 2018, 03:44:44 PM »
Basically what I'm asking is can I spool this WORK G4 62mm wheel with the AC 16930 convertor I already have in the car. I run a .63 Precision exhaust housing. What exhaust housings are you offering?


If it is a "Real" Art Carr 3000 stall, then yes. From what I've gathered, and I know you will be able to set me straight on this so please correct me where I am wrong (because I am sure I will be)..but aren't those AC 16930's essentially a PTC 9.5" knockoff? Or maybe visa-versa?


Either way, Reed recommends to start with a 3,200 stall as a baselinefor any turbo he sells, assuming you are using a PTC 9.5" NLU, though. From there, we can work with Dusty Bradford to fix any spooling characteristic s/stall speed required by your setup, but the 3,200 will give a good baseline impression.

If your car is spooling a PTE 6262 with that converter, then it will be able to spool this turbo easily, in both the journal and ball bearing versions. The ball bearing version will spool even faster, especially with the supporting modifications (ported cylinder heads, E85 for fuel, larger than stock camshaft, good torque converter -like a PTC 9.5" NLU) to the car.

We offer a .63 and .85 AR turbine housing for the Buick 3-bolt housings.

If you decide to go 4 bolt, we have a TON of different configurations .

See... this is what pisses me off about the Buick community - stuck in the past with a total reluctance to move past known-knowns established 20 years ago.  ScanMasters, using NB02s to tune under load, tuning with fuel pressure, Caspers knock gauges, a limited selection of 3-bolt turbos, antiquated converter theory and technology, internal wastegate downpipes with stupid little rod actuators, the ever loving fear of BOVs, and on and on...

Why not get a nice new converter that flashes to 4000rpm, has more efficient turbines and stators (for low speed driveability and better fluid coupling at the big end), and lock-up capability?  Why not chop the damn 3-bolt flange off and get something that seals well? They literally sell CNC 4-bolt flanges on eBay for $50 that will adapt a round pipe to a square flange (I know I have one - and it is gorgeous) and suddenly your world of performance options grows exponentially.  Why not add a 44mm WG, and slam a v-banded downpipe together with some eBay parts and Harbor Freight welder?

Risk and effort - that's why.  People their love of a risk-free bolt-on culture.  Take a damn welding class.

I think BoostedRPS needs to make package with a new PS exhaust manifold with a 4-bolt flange and external WG flange on it, offer up a bunch of decent T4-type turbos, a downpipe with an external wastegate dump tube, a spec converter, and a good intercooler - might have to have a lay-away payment plan.

Rant over.


I actually do have a package deal for;
*Gee M Racing Street Headers in a 4-bolt, external wastegate configuration.
*PTC 9.5" converter that will be spec'd by Dusty Bradford (I would have you order direct through him, or I could 3way call with you if requested).
*Turbosmart external wastegate for the headers.
*If you go with a Borg Warner 4-bolt housing, Gee M Racing is producing a V-band downpipe to fit in our cars for it. But it is ONLY for Borg Warner 4-bolt housings.
*ANY Turbo WORK Turbo offers; Garrett GTX Gen 2's, GTW's.. or Borg Warner SXE's or EFR's (although I wouldn't recommend these)... or WORK Rebuilt units, standard Billet Units, or G4 units..
*Treadstone and Bell front mount intercooler cores. Currently we do not have the mounting flanges and piping made for these, but we are working on them.
*We also have the only stock location liquid-to-air intercooler complete kit available for the TR.

That is an expensive kit, just from the quantity of quality parts included, but if you were to put a "kit" like that on your car, assuming your engine and transmission could take it, you're talking about bolting on parts to your car that could easily...easily drop your car's ET up to 2 seconds, assuming your engine and trans can support it.

On a side note...if you go 4 bolt flange, you might as well go Twin Scroll. I know the cost is more because of running dual wastegates, but the benefits in performance far outweigh the slight cost increase..
Huh. Go figure. Well there ya go.
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Offline BoostedRPS

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Re: Turbo Tech
« Reply #134 on: July 24 2018, 05:15:18 PM »
Basically what I'm asking is can I spool this WORK G4 62mm wheel with the AC 16930 convertor I already have in the car. I run a .63 Precision exhaust housing. What exhaust housings are you offering?


If it is a "Real" Art Carr 3000 stall, then yes. From what I've gathered, and I know you will be able to set me straight on this so please correct me where I am wrong (because I am sure I will be)..but aren't those AC 16930's essentially a PTC 9.5" knockoff? Or maybe visa-versa?


Either way, Reed recommends to start with a 3,200 stall as a baselinefor any turbo he sells, assuming you are using a PTC 9.5" NLU, though. From there, we can work with Dusty Bradford to fix any spooling characteristic s/stall speed required by your setup, but the 3,200 will give a good baseline impression.

If your car is spooling a PTE 6262 with that converter, then it will be able to spool this turbo easily, in both the journal and ball bearing versions. The ball bearing version will spool even faster, especially with the supporting modifications (ported cylinder heads, E85 for fuel, larger than stock camshaft, good torque converter -like a PTC 9.5" NLU) to the car.

We offer a .63 and .85 AR turbine housing for the Buick 3-bolt housings.

If you decide to go 4 bolt, we have a TON of different configurations .

See... this is what pisses me off about the Buick community - stuck in the past with a total reluctance to move past known-knowns established 20 years ago.  ScanMasters, using NB02s to tune under load, tuning with fuel pressure, Caspers knock gauges, a limited selection of 3-bolt turbos, antiquated converter theory and technology, internal wastegate downpipes with stupid little rod actuators, the ever loving fear of BOVs, and on and on...

Why not get a nice new converter that flashes to 4000rpm, has more efficient turbines and stators (for low speed driveability and better fluid coupling at the big end), and lock-up capability?  Why not chop the damn 3-bolt flange off and get something that seals well? They literally sell CNC 4-bolt flanges on eBay for $50 that will adapt a round pipe to a square flange (I know I have one - and it is gorgeous) and suddenly your world of performance options grows exponentially.  Why not add a 44mm WG, and slam a v-banded downpipe together with some eBay parts and Harbor Freight welder?

Risk and effort - that's why.  People their love of a risk-free bolt-on culture.  Take a damn welding class.

I think BoostedRPS needs to make package with a new PS exhaust manifold with a 4-bolt flange and external WG flange on it, offer up a bunch of decent T4-type turbos, a downpipe with an external wastegate dump tube, a spec converter, and a good intercooler - might have to have a lay-away payment plan.

Rant over.


I actually do have a package deal for;
*Gee M Racing Street Headers in a 4-bolt, external wastegate configuration.
*PTC 9.5" converter that will be spec'd by Dusty Bradford (I would have you order direct through him, or I could 3way call with you if requested).
*Turbosmart external wastegate for the headers.
*If you go with a Borg Warner 4-bolt housing, Gee M Racing is producing a V-band downpipe to fit in our cars for it. But it is ONLY for Borg Warner 4-bolt housings.
*ANY Turbo WORK Turbo offers; Garrett GTX Gen 2's, GTW's.. or Borg Warner SXE's or EFR's (although I wouldn't recommend these)... or WORK Rebuilt units, standard Billet Units, or G4 units..
*Treadstone and Bell front mount intercooler cores. Currently we do not have the mounting flanges and piping made for these, but we are working on them.
*We also have the only stock location liquid-to-air intercooler complete kit available for the TR.

That is an expensive kit, just from the quantity of quality parts included, but if you were to put a "kit" like that on your car, assuming your engine and transmission could take it, you're talking about bolting on parts to your car that could easily...easily drop your car's ET up to 2 seconds, assuming your engine and trans can support it.

On a side note...if you go 4 bolt flange, you might as well go Twin Scroll. I know the cost is more because of running dual wastegates, but the benefits in performance far outweigh the slight cost increase..
Huh. Go figure. Well there ya go.


Thing is, I've never had anyone willing to spend that amount of money at one time to overhaul their car in such a manner.


Typically the most money spent is either a turbo and headers, or billet rotating assembly.


[/size]The ptc would be the knock off but I doubt they would like being called that. Art Carr has been doing these cars pretty much since new. The 9" nlu works great at the track but I didn't find it as streetable as i wanted back when. I'd look at the Dave H 3021 or something along those lines, or Mr bison has some pretty opinionated stances on converters. Or Mr Bradford. He reps a real nice unit.This talk of four bolt is very interesting. I might look at this Billy thing and cut up one of my pass side units and weld on a patch and se how that might work. Ever really thought about it before. Good stuff. Very thought provoking. Now I need to justify a tig machine.



We get our converters from Dusty Bradford. He hasn't steered me wrong yet.


If you do go four bolt, I strongly suggest looking into the twin scroll design.... it really has a ton of benefits that can really change how a turbo responds in a car..


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