Author Topic: jason's education thread  (Read 38388 times)

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Offline good2win22

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jason's education thread
« on: October 04 2014, 07:38:03 AM »
Went back to little river last night.  the track is officially 1/8th mile only now.  Spoke with Kirk about it and he said that he'd been wanting to do it for a while and also mentioned that they will be putting up concrete barriers in place of the wood rails in the future. 

Made 4 passes in hopes of dialing in for the ford/buick shootout next weekend with the 2nd pass being the fastest ET. 

My observations.. .. Got this TE44 installed with a garret .63 exhaust.  This thing spools way quicker than the precision .63 that I was running previously and launched with way more boost than I am use to.  Tires broke free on the 1st and 3rd pass.  MT ET streets on the rear.  I am a novice at this drag racing thing but I am getting comfortable with the launch or at least I thought I was until this set up.  Attaching logs of the night.  My apologies for the long logs but I have yet to completely figure out the logger as far as it recording everything from the second I hit the f8 to the moment I save the log.

I definitely need to work the throttle on launch and I think I may have a TPS issue as it appeared to jump from part throttle to almost wide open throttle voltage while building boost at the lights.  Also still need to dial in the o2's in low gear

if you are wondering, stock unopened block with about 90k miles, 980 springs, new timing chain and gear, stock headers, 60# inj, 340 pump hot wire, power plate, PTE slic, 3k TC with lock up but I haven't locked it yet, Jake in Denton built the tranny.   93 with alky set at defaults from razor

Best pass of the night:
60  1.73 new personal best
1/8 7.85 new personal best
mph 86.24
any and all help is appreciated
Jason

1982 Jeep Wagoneer Limited
1987 Turbo Regal Limited
2011 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited JK
2015 Ram 2500 Cummins

Offline Scoobum

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Re: jason's education thread
« Reply #1 on: October 04 2014, 08:41:48 AM »
Jason...what size rear tire are you running? 26" or 28". Could pull some fuel in low gear...but I'm happy with what I see. Don't see anything bad happening in the first file. Good RPM drop on the shifts. Hang on...your battery voltage at WOT in 3rd gear is 12.5...so that needs to be addressed.

2nd run shows you leaving the line at 3667 RPM's and 13.9 lbs of boost...and about 4 seconds to spool. Might wanna try leaving the line with a little less boost/RPM's...so you don't overpower the track. The two runs you blew the tires off you left the line with a little over 20 lbs of boost.

Your 1/8th to 1/4 calculation is 12.3 at 107.


« Last Edit: October 04 2014, 09:37:53 AM by Scoobum »
109 235 Cubic Inch Stock Stroke Balanced Rotating Assembly
Stock Crank
TRW .030 Pistons
Stock Rods
Stock Timing Chain/Gears
212/212 Flat Tappet Cam
JB Racing Heads
Stock Rockers
5.7 TT Race Chip
Built 2004R
AC 16930
6262 JB

6.72 at 104.67-25 PSI

Offline TexasT

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Re: jason's education thread
« Reply #2 on: October 04 2014, 09:10:08 AM »
Not much mph for the 7.85, did you let off at the end of the run?
Do they give you a 330' time n mph?

how much boost are you launching at?
Have you tried different pressures in the tires to get a good looking patch? Pressure you are using?

Do you know what mr jake did to the trans? parts mods etc?
I wouldn't lock it unless jake said it would be ok.
Rich

"Goals without actions are just dreams."

Offline good2win22

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Re: jason's education thread
« Reply #3 on: October 04 2014, 05:46:36 PM »
Jason...what size rear tire are you running? 26" or 28". Could pull some fuel in low gear...but I'm happy with what I see. Don't see anything bad happening in the first file. Good RPM drop on the shifts. Hang on...your battery voltage at WOT in 3rd gear is 12.5...so that needs to be addressed.

2nd run shows you leaving the line at 3667 RPM's and 13.9 lbs of boost...and about 4 seconds to spool. Might wanna try leaving the line with a little less boost/RPM's...so you don't overpower the track. The two runs you blew the tires off you left the line with a little over 20 lbs of boost.

Your 1/8th to 1/4 calculation is 12.3 at 107.
Tires are 26 inches. 255/50 16s. I thought about dropping a few points on the low fuel but the temp OAT was dropping quickly. I didn't notice the voltage drop.  I did have a battery terminal issue on the last run. That may be the culprit but I'll check the alt as well. 


I gotta check the TPS for irregularities . I put the throttle where it would normally spool to about 2800 to 3 grand and the tach went through the roof.


My personal best in the quarter with an unknown turbo was exactly that 12.36 @ 107.79.
Jason

1982 Jeep Wagoneer Limited
1987 Turbo Regal Limited
2011 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited JK
2015 Ram 2500 Cummins

Offline good2win22

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Re: jason's education thread
« Reply #4 on: October 04 2014, 06:00:36 PM »
Not much mph for the 7.85, did you let off at the end of the run?
Do they give you a 330' time n mph?

how much boost are you launching at?
Have you tried different pressures in the tires to get a good looking patch? Pressure you are using?

Do you know what mr jake did to the trans? parts mods etc?
I wouldn't lock it unless jake said it would be ok.
I had I bit more fuel in the tank than I would like to see but I didn't let up


Best 330 was in time not mph. 5.0143
Boost at launch was what got me. I was hoping to launch at about 8 but lowest I left with the 2 runs that hooked was approx 14. 


I had 15 psi in the tires. Checked before each run and haven't had anyone to look at the patch for me.


As for the tranny, billet forward drum, billet server and anchor pin, heat treated sun shell and stator, new clutches, larger boost valve, new pump and my original valve body. 

Jason

1982 Jeep Wagoneer Limited
1987 Turbo Regal Limited
2011 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited JK
2015 Ram 2500 Cummins

Offline Scoobum

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Re: jason's education thread
« Reply #5 on: October 04 2014, 06:06:07 PM »
The 16" tire has a shorter sidewall...and won't flex as much. I'm not sure how much more boost you can jam through it with the stock heads...as they're a restriction. Full low gear timing came on in .5 seconds after launch...did you have Erics chip on aggressive mode?
109 235 Cubic Inch Stock Stroke Balanced Rotating Assembly
Stock Crank
TRW .030 Pistons
Stock Rods
Stock Timing Chain/Gears
212/212 Flat Tappet Cam
JB Racing Heads
Stock Rockers
5.7 TT Race Chip
Built 2004R
AC 16930
6262 JB

6.72 at 104.67-25 PSI

Offline good2win22

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Re: jason's education thread
« Reply #6 on: October 04 2014, 08:46:56 PM »
I set low gear timing at 130 to put in in the aggressive mode. I'm going to leave the boost where it's at now and work the tune. I have a set of TA heads and a spare block. Just waiting for the wallet to fill up. Also have a lead on a short block that William Avila has built. He wants my block and crank as core. His short block has been studded both mains and heads but nothing billet, girdled or forged. Not certain I need the forged stuff for my goals but the billet mains and girdle would definitely give me peace of mind.  My TA heads are brand new second hand. Bowls have been worked but nothing else and they have never been installed on an engine. Springs are set up for a roller. I have the flow sheet with spring pressures and install height.  I have some 1.65 rockers too. Basically have everything to put it together but a cam and lifters. I will probably go to some 80# injectors too.


My goal is to have one 10 second time slip. Then I'll throw in some Whitesnake on the radio and cruise my teen years just like I always wanted too knowing I could pretty much smack down anything that wanted to run me on the street especially them damn mustangs
Jason

1982 Jeep Wagoneer Limited
1987 Turbo Regal Limited
2011 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited JK
2015 Ram 2500 Cummins

Offline TexasT

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Re: jason's education thread
« Reply #7 on: October 04 2014, 09:58:41 PM »
With the short sidewall you might think about more pressure to get the middle up. Find a side street and lay down some marks and look at them. Do the marks look even? More to the middle? Too much pressure, let some out. More to the edges? Too little pressure add some. Look at the tires to make sure they are wearing evenly across the tread. A good 60' is needed to get he best run.

Trans sounds expensive but I bet it is worth it.

If it isn't knocking I'd keep adding boost/fuel til it does then back it off a bit.
Rich

"Goals without actions are just dreams."

Offline good2win22

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Re: jason's education thread
« Reply #8 on: October 04 2014, 11:09:52 PM »
With the short sidewall you might think about more pressure to get the middle up. Find a side street and lay down some marks and look at them. Do the marks look even? More to the middle? Too much pressure, let some out. More to the edges? Too little pressure add some. Look at the tires to make sure they are wearing evenly across the tread. A good 60' is needed to get he best run.

Trans sounds expensive but I bet it is worth it.

If it isn't knocking I'd keep adding boost/fuel til it does then back it off a bit.
I'll try and lay down some marks tomorrow and see how they look.  Jake cut me an awesome deal on the tranny.  He and I attended some of the same military schools and served in some of the same foreign countries. At different times of course.


If you ever look at his website, you may notice the red scroll that has business name inside it. It resembles a certain elite unit patch.  He's good people



Jason

1982 Jeep Wagoneer Limited
1987 Turbo Regal Limited
2011 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited JK
2015 Ram 2500 Cummins

Offline TexasT

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Re: jason's education thread
« Reply #9 on: October 05 2014, 08:28:48 AM »
I've not met him but i did use a lot of his advise when he use to post around the interwebz. Good you got a good deal.

As far as tires, it is like tuning different engines. Different cars/tires/engines like different things so you have to make adjustments based in your conditions/parameters.
Rich

"Goals without actions are just dreams."

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Re: jason's education thread
« Reply #10 on: October 05 2014, 09:17:03 AM »
I have a set of TA aluminum heads here...that were further ported by Nick Micale. I had every opportunity to bolt them on this short block back in July...and didn't...for a reason.

Dan and I did a test a year ago. On a Saturday we swapped a Champion race intake on my car. I always run the Champion stock appearing intake. I wanted to see what the car would do at the track with no other changes. My hunch was correct. Had a go at it the next morning at the track at the same boost setting I normally use...and it was a stone off the line.

The only 2 LU convertors that I'm aware of that can be locked at WOT is the Precision multidisc and the 9/11. The rest don't have enuf surface area. Dusty Bradford has forgotten more about convertors that most will ever learn. He's a good read.

A boat load of fast parts won't make your car fast. There's a ton of guys out there with 10 second parts running 12's. Two guys up here in the Toronto area with S2 cars are running 11's. Believe it.





109 235 Cubic Inch Stock Stroke Balanced Rotating Assembly
Stock Crank
TRW .030 Pistons
Stock Rods
Stock Timing Chain/Gears
212/212 Flat Tappet Cam
JB Racing Heads
Stock Rockers
5.7 TT Race Chip
Built 2004R
AC 16930
6262 JB

6.72 at 104.67-25 PSI

Offline Steve Wood

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Re: jason's education thread
« Reply #11 on: October 05 2014, 09:32:07 AM »
Some guy wrote me a few weeks back telling me that he had put a set of aluminum heads on his car and needed to know the correct A/F ratio for the car.  I told him that had to be determined by tuning as there was no such thing as THE correct A/F as it depended upon a number of variables.  He did not believe me and told me so...before it was over, I found out that he had installed a set of GN1 heads on the car and the car was completely stock otherwise, turbo, etc.  I told him the car would be slower than it was stock due to the thermal inefficiency of aluminum with regard to combustion and the large ports vs a small turbo.  That really pissed him off.  After being told that everyone knew that aluminum heads would make these cars much faster and I damned sure did not know anything about them, I have not heard from him since....

I guess a vendor did a good job on him.

Another guy wrote me a few days ago about mufflers.  I told him  straight thru mufflers would be the best.  He then spent all afternoon telling me that the guy at the muffler shop told him that it would run slower with a straight thru muffler because cars needed back pressure to make power.  After about the fifth email, I told him not to write anymore because I was not qualified to work in a muffler shop.
Steve Wood

http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com

A lot of broken parts does not make you a racer; it makes you a slow learner.

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Re: jason's education thread
« Reply #12 on: October 05 2014, 10:08:05 AM »
Steve...here's a pic of me squaring off against a big tire car from earlier this year. High compression SBC...big cam...loose convertor...op en exhaust...big gears...blah blah blah. I'll give you one guess who got to the top of the track first. To head fake these guys even further...note the stock GN rims...and that's a 10.5 tire on the rear...clears the frame rails and fender lips.  :) Not one cool guy part on my car.  :)
109 235 Cubic Inch Stock Stroke Balanced Rotating Assembly
Stock Crank
TRW .030 Pistons
Stock Rods
Stock Timing Chain/Gears
212/212 Flat Tappet Cam
JB Racing Heads
Stock Rockers
5.7 TT Race Chip
Built 2004R
AC 16930
6262 JB

6.72 at 104.67-25 PSI

Offline Steve Wood

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Re: jason's education thread
« Reply #13 on: October 05 2014, 10:48:27 AM »
Long ago,  Jeremy (Nocooler) was running mid-elevens on a TE-44 in a peg leg car...he put some serious air in the bag on the passenger side to hook it up :D
Steve Wood

http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com

A lot of broken parts does not make you a racer; it makes you a slow learner.

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Re: jason's education thread
« Reply #14 on: October 05 2014, 10:52:15 AM »
Long ago,  Jeremy (Nocooler) was running mid-elevens on a TE-44 in a peg leg car...he put some serious air in the bag on the passenger side to hook it up :D


I remember that. :)
109 235 Cubic Inch Stock Stroke Balanced Rotating Assembly
Stock Crank
TRW .030 Pistons
Stock Rods
Stock Timing Chain/Gears
212/212 Flat Tappet Cam
JB Racing Heads
Stock Rockers
5.7 TT Race Chip
Built 2004R
AC 16930
6262 JB

6.72 at 104.67-25 PSI


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