Where the hell has Gary been ?

[Gary Wells]

Because Thunderfab had one of the best reputations out there for fit, function, & cost. Their function is great, fit sucks, & they are now $ 700 retail where they were about $600 just about a year ago. They  also look somewhere close to stock. If I was to do this over again, it would be the PT&E factory mount which also has increased in price and now is about $840 through the least expensive source that I know of,(Full Throttle Speed & Style), plus shipping.  It is the best factory mount out there currently. I think that Thunderfab was considered the best out there available in it's price range. Good to hear from you again Gordy, hope that you and family are in good health and spirits.

[Recklessrob]

Welcome back Gary. Lose the stock air filter and components. They
even hinder a stock car, not to mention killing yours.

[Gary Wells]

Thanks, Rob. I really wasn't gopne anywhere, I was keeping an eye on you guys incognito, so to speak, I guess. Air filter set-up is the next item to go, just can't make up my mind which one. So far in the lead is the Mark Hueffman big mouth, just can't decide whether I want to go with the translator plus & ls1 now, or wait till later and maybe have to do hose-fitting size changes due to the changeover. Probably should wait for the maf to go, but I ahve very good luck with them, this being my fifth turbo Buick, and never had to replace one yet. The big mouth, translator plus & lsi maf sounds like about $580-$610, and I don't know if I want to shell that much on a fckng air intake system right now. What's the 1st class hot set-up currently for upper & lower rear control arms??

[Recklessrob]

I like the Hotchkis ones I'm running now. Many like
the ones from Metco. I'd stay away from South Sides on a street car.
Ededbrocks are very similar to Hotchkis, but I can't say if there are any exhaust
clearance issues with their braces or not.

[Be4u]

I have HrPartsnstuff but I dont know the difference between any of them.

[87natty]

Anything is better than stock. I prefer non adjustable, as your performance depends on who installs it. I guess you could get the thrust angle set at a good alignment shop.

[gordyzx9r]

I have the Metco uppers and lowers.  They're adjustable but they come from the factory with the stock-factory preset.  They also come with the c-clamps or whatever they're called if you ever need them.  A world of difference over the stock ones.

[Gary Wells]

Most, or a lot of the upper & lower rear control arms available out there are polyurethane, or do not list what they use for a buffering material and that is my concern. Also, Global Wests claim on their spherical bushing rear upper or lower adjustable is that it allows full articulation, where almost all of the others do not. On the other hand, Global West only makes the adjustable one that I described and a solid  one, but do not make an upper and a lower also. Makes me worry when a company only makes one of a supposedly set of something. Edelbrock has something similiar to that design, but not available for our cars. Currie makes something new called a "Johnny joint" very similiar in concept.

[Racer X]

If you want the car to handle you will need the spherical bearings where the arms attach to the frame. This will take some of the bind out. If the car is just for street duty with occasional spirited driving then it would not matter too much and you just get standard bushings.

[87natty]

You mean Heim joints? On all points?

[Gary Wells]

A Heim Joint's technicial name is spherical bearing, I believe, and yes. without at least one end, I forget which one, of the upper or lower rear control arm being spherical, it's onlymovement is up or down. A spherical (heim joint) bearing allows a certain amount of atriculation sideways, and full movement up & down. Unless you are running a bar to keep the body centered on the chassis, such as the GNX one, it is claimed that the car will move sideways enough to cause the binding of the bushings, which also causes squeaking. Global West, has one end of the adjustable control arm with a Heim joint. Most like it, a few don't.

[Racer X]

I have not seen anyone make control arms with Heim/Spherical connection at both ends.

Everything you stated Gary is correct.

[Racer X]

I have not seen anyone make control arms with Heim/Spherical connection at both ends.

Everything you stated Gary is correct.

[Gary Wells]

So, Racer X, you're a martini drinker & racer, what is your advice in regards to what should I run in the way of a upper & lower rear control arms. I am confused, not about the choices, but which one is the best for my application. I like spirited  freeway romps, spirited freeway on & off ramps, will probably only see a stoplight race or two, Global West adjustable upper control arm with the frame end Heim joint, Spherical Bearing) and whose solid lower control arms. I dunno, and maybe a bigger Full throttle Speed & Style rear sway bar? I am crowded at the front end and I am going to leave the front sway bar factory dia. Does that sound good to ya?

[Racer X]

So, Racer X, you're a martini drinker & racer....

BUSTED!  :bigeyes;

I don't see a need to go with adjustables unless you have the need to change the pinion angle.

I can not reccomend a specific manufaturer over another since I have not tried them all and that would not be fair.

So, here's what I can say, you are correct in the the hiem joint at the frame will allow the 4 link to articulate more than it does now, but will not eliminate the problem. Since the two arms are of different length and angle they will be swinging at a diiferent arc which will cause the bind sooner or later. The only way to rid ourselves of this is to go with a 3 link, but no need for that on the street.

IF you are going to hot rod the car around corners what will happen with the stock set up is that the rear will roll to the point that it can no longer roll due to the bind. When this happens it will be similar to coil bind where your spring rate goes to infinity. The car will roll and the finally the rear will just snap around on you. With the heim joints you will get more roll befor ethis happens, thus a more effective roll rate which will be more predictable throught the corner.

I am a big advocate for leaving the stock front bar. I see a lot of people going to a bigger front bar. Why? I don't know. Our cars have an inherent push/understeer to them from the factory. To increase the push in a car you INCREASE the size of the front bar. To lessen the effects of understeer you INCREASE the size of the REAR bar. So leave the front bar alone.

When you are tuning a chassis, you want to do ONE thing at a time. If you make wholesale changes to the chassis and something doesn't feel right you won't know if it was the springs, bars, shocks, etc... that had the detrimental effect on the handling.

As for sway bars, when you increase the diameter of a bar by just an 1/8 of an inch it increases the effectiveness to the power of 4 over the previous diameter. I have an excel spreadsheet that I use when doing all of this that has all of the formulas in it. I will try to upload it to my website in the next few days.


So, what do I think? I think that if Mama Cass had given that sandwich to Karen Carpenter they both would still be alive today! For what you are looking for Gary, you don't need to spend a ton of dough on shocks and springs and bars. Put all the braces on the car and a set of Bilstiens and you will fine for the freeways and off ramps.  


Racer (typed all that hunt and peck style) X  :rolleyes: