Author Topic: Have Had Lots of Troubles with my New Engine/Trans Combo 2004-R  (Read 358 times)

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Offline KenBean

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Re: Have Had Lots of Troubles with my New Engine/Trans Combo 2004-R
« Reply #15 on: November 05 2020, 09:54:40 PM »
The tighter cable I mentioned in my post last night did really help when I drove it today. Let me know if these readings sound fairly normal for trans operation.

Idle 700-800RPM it is around 60PSI

When you bury the pedal from a stop is burns some tire and going to 120PSI quickly then climbs to 150PSI

Shifting at 4500RPM into 2nd (~35MPH) at around 150PSI and stays around there while in 2nd.

And then into 3rd also I think 4500RPM not sure speed exactly but I think 60-70MPH and I am not sure what the trans PSI is doing, too busy watching the road at that point.

When it is just before 2nd gear and in early 3rd gear there is a fair amount of needle bouncing, probably +/-25 PSI, so that 150PSI I mentioned above stays around 150 but does bounce +/-25 if I had to guess. Its hard to read the gauge in the shaking video I made, the gauge is taped to the windshield so its got glare and angle to contend with as well.

When just cruising around 2kPRM the PSI is between 60 and 90, when I then punch it will jump to about 150PSI.


TO answer some of the recent comments:

Its a mechanical Holley Fuel pump and is giving the spec 5-7PSI regulated with a gauge inline shows that it is around 6.

It is a Large Cap OEM style HEI, I think it is one of the cheap ones Summit sells for around $75, came new with the engine. I did try a friends used one and likely factory HEI and no difference, but that was before I had gotten this carb on it and this intake and the 4degree cam change when I tried that distributor. New Taylor wires, new plugs.

I could dial the timing back to total of 35 and see how it does.

It sounds like the suggestion is to set idle around 1k instead of the 7-800 i have it at? If I do that it may make the 60PSI go higher at idle, so I my need to loosen the TV?????

The new converter I got is an FTI and is a 9" dia 2800 stall, need to install it sometime. One in the car is stalling around 2200 (Hughes 12"converter rated 2k)
 

Offline ULYCYC

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Re: Have Had Lots of Troubles with my New Engine/Trans Combo 2004-R
« Reply #16 on: November 06 2020, 07:18:41 AM »
Not sure what state your car was in when you got your line pressure reading but read and follow.  Lonnie Diers put this up many years ago. He is one of the  master builders of  our transmissions.  Also check out the cable install and adjustment part.
You may want to wait until you change the converter. 2200 is just too low for your setup and alter your pressure adjustments.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiCguCq8e3sAhWETt8KHRdaAAIQFjACegQIDxAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fextremeautomatics.com%2Fassets%2Fpdf%2F2004R_Transmission_Install.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1WD5gQTPXcoG_VFjKzoxOj
« Last Edit: November 06 2020, 07:30:21 AM by ULYCYC »
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Offline wmsonta

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Re: Have Had Lots of Troubles with my New Engine/Trans Combo 2004-R
« Reply #17 on: November 06 2020, 01:37:16 PM »
The tighter cable I mentioned in my post last night did really help when I drove it today. Let me know if these readings sound fairly normal for trans operation.

Idle 700-800RPM it is around 60PSI

When you bury the pedal from a stop is burns some tire and going to 120PSI quickly then climbs to 150PSI

Shifting at 4500RPM into 2nd (~35MPH) at around 150PSI and stays around there while in 2nd.

And then into 3rd also I think 4500RPM not sure speed exactly but I think 60-70MPH and I am not sure what the trans PSI is doing, too busy watching the road at that point.

When it is just before 2nd gear and in early 3rd gear there is a fair amount of needle bouncing, probably +/-25 PSI, so that 150PSI I mentioned above stays around 150 but does bounce +/-25 if I had to guess. Its hard to read the gauge in the shaking video I made, the gauge is taped to the windshield so its got glare and angle to contend with as well.

When just cruising around 2kPRM the PSI is between 60 and 90, when I then punch it will jump to about 150PSI.
You will have some amount of longevity. Ed's link is useful info. However, the excellent pressures listed should be considered a high end 'builder' trans. The min pressures listed, IMO, are somewhat above most oem 200/700 R4 trans. Yours APPEARS to be a straight oem rebuild.
If you are going to run an OD trans non-lockup with the stall the engine needs (3000), what is the advantage?

Its a mechanical Holley Fuel pump and is giving the spec 5-7PSI regulated with a gauge inline shows that it is around 6.
IMO, you are done with that.

It is a Large Cap OEM style HEI, I think it is one of the cheap ones Summit sells for around $75, came new with the engine. I did try a friends used one and likely factory HEI and no difference, but that was before I had gotten this carb on it and this intake and the 4degree cam change when I tried that distributor. New Taylor wires, new plugs.

I could dial the timing back to total of 35 and see how it does.
I refuse to have this complete discussion, if I have to type it. You have a motor that requires a custom distributor curve to be right and the hardest known distributor to custom curve.
The following are MY OPINIONS. In my world, to guarantee rational longevity, you have to limit the total advance to Ed's 35 or my 34. No way around this. Without a dist re-curve, you will hate it. Mere mortals will be on suicide watch before a competent HEI re-curve. I stopped doing them 20 yrs ago. I can walk you though it, but not if I have to type it.

It sounds like the suggestion is to set idle around 1k instead of the 7-800 i have it at? If I do that it may make the 60PSI go higher at idle, so I my need to loosen the TV?????
Solid rollers and any flat tappet require 1000rpm min idle, in my world. I want all of the lubrication I can get. Once the TV is properly set, idle it where you want.

The new converter I got is an FTI and is a 9" dia 2800 stall, need to install it sometime. One in the car is stalling around 2200 (Hughes 12"converter rated 2k)
Probably less than 20% of buyers end up with the stall they bought. If non-lockup and OD trans, you will need a cooler.

If you end up close to 3000 stall, you could maybe get away from a re-curve by running locked out timing. 34-35 initial. An HEI will then have rotor phasing issues probably. Any of this can be fixed. How tough are you?

It may be time to verify the dyno results. I do not trust some. I own a '72 Nova, it will run about 97mph @ 260hp. The same weight @275 is about 100. 325 is about 105. Use a cell and GPS or a Garmin.

God, I hope this helps. I could give you my number. Where do you live?
« Last Edit: November 06 2020, 02:25:52 PM by wmsonta »

Offline KenBean

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Re: Have Had Lots of Troubles with my New Engine/Trans Combo 2004-R
« Reply #18 on: November 06 2020, 07:46:13 PM »
I sent wmsonta a PM with my number. I am in central Virginia.

The trans builder did say he builds them for factory pressures. Regarding the other rebuild parts it was supposed to be built to handle 400+ HP, but I can only trust it was......so IDK.

FTI offers 1 free re-stall within the first year, so I guess its just shipping. They came highly recommended and that is a nice service. Basically this one but lockup delete: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fti-esrl3082-27

Distributor: If you are suggesting that a different than simply HEI distributor is advisable I did see the following option, since the MSD stuff is an arm and a leg (BUt even this one is $$$) https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-csum2750   A small diameter like this is nice for the Nova/Firebird/Camaro ......so close to the firewall that the big HEI's are really annoying, I had to dent my firewall some to get access.

I do have a trans cooler.

Even with this lockup delete the 0.67 OD ratio is nice, 60/70mph its rolling at around 2k RPM.
« Last Edit: November 06 2020, 07:53:27 PM by KenBean »

Offline wmsonta

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Re: Have Had Lots of Troubles with my New Engine/Trans Combo 2004-R
« Reply #19 on: November 06 2020, 09:09:56 PM »
I sent wmsonta a PM with my number. I am in central Virginia.
-----------------------
I get involved with a lot of good mechanics, none in Va. I will get you my contact info also. If I answer the phone, I am setting here looking at it. No cell.

The trans builder did say he builds them for factory pressures. Regarding the other rebuild parts it was supposed to be built to handle 400+ HP, but I can only trust it was......so IDK.
----------------------------
The good folks on this board use the R4 far beyond its design parameters. If you paid attention to the TV adjustment in this thread, you will/should be ok. Too tight, it will live some. Too loose and the lifespan is hundreds of miles or less. An oem trans will hold 275 hp easily.

FTI offers 1 free re-stall within the first year, so I guess its just shipping. They came highly recommended and that is a nice service. Basically this one but lockup delete: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fti-esrl3082-27
----------------------

Distributor: If you are suggesting that a different than simply HEI distributor is advisable I did see the following option, since the MSD stuff is an arm and a leg (BUt even this one is $$$) https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-csum2750   A small diameter like this is nice for the Nova/Firebird/Camaro ......so close to the firewall that the big HEI's are really annoying, I had to dent my firewall some to get access.
-----------------------
That looks manufactured by Mallory. If so, it will be easier to re-curve and won't have any spark scatter, etc, inherent in 1/3 of HEI's. Summit will give you the manufacturer. I wouldn't pay that money with out knowing what to expect.
If money is an issue, you can investigate the quality of the one you have. It wouldn't take much to see what you are dealing with. I believe you to have the skill and investigation will not require the tenacity of a re-curve. Also, you might could find that 50 hp I keep harping about.

I do have a trans cooler.

Even with this lockup delete the 0.67 OD ratio is nice, 60/70mph its rolling at around 2k RPM.
--------------------------
The motor is not built well for a 2000 cruise. However, I am not about to start telling owners what to do with their time/sweat/money.
With a 3000 stall it is not going to cruise at 2000, except downhill.


« Last Edit: November 06 2020, 09:21:23 PM by wmsonta »