Author Topic: Update on future build  (Read 762 times)

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Offline phil_long

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Update on future build
« on: January 26 2021, 04:44:25 PM »
Hey guys, I decided to start a new thread on the build since the last thread I started is super old. The refresher on the build is as follows:


Stock 109 block. bored .20 over with a deck plate. New TA grooved cam bearings, new ARP main studs, #2 and #3 Pro-gram billet main caps, and block has been lined honed. New JE pistons, scat stock length forged rods, forged eagle crank(external balancing), new brass freeze plugs.

I just ordered the Aluminum heads already set up with the springs and scorpion rocker arms 1.65. This Friday, or possibly Monday, I will purchase the roller cam that the heads were set up for.

I will keep this thread updated with as many photos and info as possible. Stay tuned and I hope everyone is well!!!! :cheers:

Offline Steve Wood

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Re: Update on future build
« Reply #1 on: January 26 2021, 04:50:32 PM »
Sounds like a beast to me! Glad it is progressing👍👍
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A lot of broken parts does not make you a racer; it makes you a slow learner.

Offline phil_long

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Re: Update on future build
« Reply #2 on: January 26 2021, 05:04:57 PM »
It's progressing! Thanks so much Steve. I really want to keep it simple but Bison was recommending a different ECM. Any thoughts? I have to find a set of headers as well because the stockers I have are through. Can I reuse my intake or should I buy a new one? I'm all over the place. If you all could do it over again, what would you do? There are no wrong answers here. Lol

Offline nocooler

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Re: Update on future build
« Reply #3 on: January 26 2021, 05:12:50 PM »
Bling Bling!
For a street car, I'd leave the stock ecm. A more strip orientated deal - I'd consider a standalone. Who is going to tune it? If not you find out if they have a preference. 
IhaveaV8

Offline Steve Wood

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Re: Update on future build
« Reply #4 on: January 26 2021, 07:08:35 PM »
Phil, I agree with Jeremy.  For a street car that runs no faster than low tens, I would go with the TT 6.1 that is driven by a wideband sensor and put my money into something that could be seen.

If you are building a race car that will run into the nines (or faster), then I would go with the ecu-gn, or whatever it is called.  Unless you want to dedicate a lot of time and effort to learning how to tune, I don't see the benefit, myself.  I would hate to have to spend a lot of money to have someone else to tune if for me.  You understand, I don't sell parts and I would not pass for a vendor even if I wanted to.  Keep it simple and drive the car.  That is what I believe no matter what the sales pitch is.  :D
Steve Wood

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Offline phil_long

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Re: Update on future build
« Reply #5 on: January 27 2021, 02:30:41 PM »
I love the responses. Thanks guys!! Wherever I can save money I will, but I don't plan to cut corners due to pricing. I know how to tune through the stock ecm, as I will aim for a "safer" target for AFR. My goal isn't the track at all, but I don't want to open my motor up again for something more because I want more. As I've always said, I prefer to overbuild and go from there. I definitely plan to invest wisely into the fuel system, going with a bigger pump and better fuel lines. 

Offline Tim Hensley

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Re: Update on future build
« Reply #6 on: January 28 2021, 01:27:40 AM »
Need to send your stock intake to Champion and have it ported to match your Champion heads.
If your not racing it , I personally think you have to much rocker arm ratio. And what roller cam?
I agree with Steve , canít beat the 6.1 chip.
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Offline Steve Wood

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Re: Update on future build
« Reply #7 on: January 28 2021, 10:16:19 AM »
Good point, Tim.  I wondered about the 1.75 rockers as well.  Seems like that might be hard on the valve train for a street car.  I am assuming that someone recommended the combination to him?

A couple of years ago when William Avila decided he wanted to go really fast, he was running a 6.1 chip.  I was helping him tune via long distance.  I think he was still running a 6262 turbo, or maybe one step bigger.  Roller cam was something in the range of the 214s as I recall.  It was the first one he bought when switching from a flat tappet that was not working well.

When he passed about 10.4 times, I refused to tune long distance anymore because I was afraid  I would cause it to blow up.  He just put the chip on the defaults as Eric had burned them and kept turning the boost up.  As I recall he was around 10.2 or maybe a little quicker at the end of the season.  At that point he was out of turbo.  The next year he was running a MegaSquirt and a local guy that was learning to tune Buicks was helping him.  He made it into the lower Nines with bigger everything.

At the moment he is running 8.80s right at 150 mph-still on a stock block.  Of course bigger and bigger on the parts.  Pretty sure he is running E85 as well.  I am amazed that the drivetrain has held together.  Transmission is a Turbo 350 and a Ford 9" rear.

All it takes is money and more money and the drive to go faster every time you hit the track.  My opinion is that these cars stop being fun when you get out of the tens (Okay, Dan, I will give you 9.90s. LOL)
Steve Wood

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A lot of broken parts does not make you a racer; it makes you a slow learner.

Offline phil_long

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Re: Update on future build
« Reply #8 on: January 28 2021, 02:19:17 PM »
Yeah, the 1.65 rockers were recommended by Bison, who's also doing the cam. After the cam is done, I'll update the thread on the exact specs of it. Would sending the stock intake in to be ported be cheaper than buying a new one? Also, I'm assuming I'll need at least a 62mm throttle body? 

I definitely want to keep it simple. My goal is to run out of turbo. I plan to get a converter spec'd as well, but that'll be after the build of course. 

William's car sounds incredible. Lol. I'm not sure I could enjoy a car that fast.

Offline Steve Wood

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Re: Update on future build
« Reply #9 on: January 28 2021, 05:47:29 PM »
I don't know about the plenum.

I think most go to 70mm throttlebodies with a three inch hose assuming you are using an innercooler with a three inch outlet.

I believe the converter is the key to any good running Buick.
Steve Wood

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A lot of broken parts does not make you a racer; it makes you a slow learner.

Offline Steve Wood

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Re: Update on future build
« Reply #10 on: January 28 2021, 05:51:44 PM »
Quote from: Steve Wood
I don't know about the plenum.

I think most go to 70mm throttlebodies with a three inch hose assuming you are using an innercooler with a three inch outlet.  Or use a step hose to make the jump.  

I believe the converter is the key to any good running Buick.
Steve Wood

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A lot of broken parts does not make you a racer; it makes you a slow learner.

Offline Tim Hensley

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Re: Update on future build
« Reply #11 on: January 29 2021, 03:39:16 AM »
I have reread it twice and donít see your intended ET or use of the car. Donít see turbo size ether.
I like to see a person use Steveís vortex section and build from a proven combination.
RJC has some good starting points too. Is Brian (Bison) helping you put this combination together? He has put down some good numbers. I bet it will run good. The quest for speed can be costly if you donít follow a proven combo. Most good combination have taken lots of hours and money, and were lucky some shear this with us.
Arizona GN109 forged rotating assembly
DLS 210-210
Champion irons
Extreme Auto stage II trans and converter

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Re: Update on future build
« Reply #12 on: January 29 2021, 09:09:57 AM »
Tim, he said it was not going to be a track car so it sounds like he is aiming for a fast street car.
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Offline ULYCYC

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Re: Update on future build
« Reply #13 on: January 29 2021, 09:23:38 AM »
No!!  fast street car  not a track car us usually the hint to machine shops/builders that blame troubles  are near when it blows up.
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Re: Update on future build
« Reply #14 on: January 29 2021, 10:03:34 AM »
1.65 rockers will increase lift about .030 -.050 over stock rockers depending on how the new cam is degreed in and push rods set up.. Also if your block and heads were decked that will add to the final piston to valve clearance results. I did similar setup and had to flycut my JE pistons. For clearance.
The intake whether old or new needs to be port matched. This has to be done with  a mock setup with the heads on your motor. This has nothing to do with porting for cfm flow. The headers should be done also with the new heads.
Driving on the street @ 25lbs of boost will blow up just as easy as being on the track at 25lbs of boost.  Only real difference is stress on rear end and axles launching on a prepped sticky track. On the street you just smoke the tires.
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