confused!

[blown1]

I give up.
 still  noisier than I like,  have to run valve cover spacers,  and fiddle with them so rockers don't hit,
 then bang!  it breaks a rocker arm  hold down bolt, 
it gets better........ ..
 fix that,  start it,  another bolt  breaks,
these are grade 8 bolts,

so. I have decided  its going back to hyd flat tappet,  new springs, 
I have no idea what going on, but don;t care at this point,
its close to being pushed into the corner and ignored  for few months, 

so.. I'm  looking for 206 flat tappet cam , after this  experience, I'd prefer NOT a comp cam,
cam, lifters,  springs. head gaskets, Heck I'll even go back to stock type timing chain!

I get so pissed,  then I go start  the skyhawk ( same eng, 206 hyd flat tappet, ) and its  quiet,
start instantly, idles perfectly, 

screw this roller noisy crap!!   why are these so noisy? GM makes a roller cam 3.8 that silent,  are we,
 the buick  community, so ignorant , we can't  make these quiet?

wow, I guess I'd better  just shut up and go find a cold beer.

[TexasT]

http://m.ebay.com/itm/Buick-231-3-8-3-8L-Hydraulic-Flat-Tappet-Camshaft-Cam-Lifters-Kit-1977-87-/200312033755?nav=SEARCH

I think Elgin is good stuff. I couldn't see the description. There was a split 204/214 on there the other day, that is where I'm kinda leaning.

[good2win22]

Can you load a pic of your cam card?

[blown1]

http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=46&sb=1

[motorhead]

Not that I like repeating myself, because I don't - here goes:  Anything that comes out of Comp through a Vendor is old junk. Shitty lobe designs.  Poor base materials and workmanship. Oldtime valve event concepts.

See if Cam Motion will cut you a cam to suit your combo.

I really should take some time to decipher just what is going on with the classic Buick grinds.

[good2win22]

Something definitely wrong with your valve train setup to be breaking things.

[motorhead]

Something definitely wrong with your valve train setup to be breaking things.

High Energy lobes? Those were first cut in what... 1995?  Nice smooth lobes exist today which don't beat up valvetrain.

[blown1]

well.   round 2 ( or 3 or4)  pulled the motor today,
will slowly dissect  it tomorrow,
but. ...  new cam/lifters, springs will be  here in 2 days,
cam is hyd ,flat tappet,  ( quiet)
no idea why  hyd roller  is so noisy, but  not any more! LOL


if you read this all post all the way  to this end........... .

in 3-4 weeks  I will have in my possession  some highly desired  wheels.
in 18x8 18x9 19x9.5       I not supposed  to  be letting the cat out of the bag.
but this is  over 2yrs working and struggling  to  manufacture  these.
they will not be cheap,  as  we have over $100k invested in these,
stay tuned for more  info, LOL

[earlbrown]

I'd really recommend getting to the bottom of your bolt breaking problem.   If those hold down bolts aren't counterfeit they're rated at 150,000#s.   There's no way a hydraulic lifter, or 5/16" pushrod can flex the rocker shaft hard enough to break a bolt. Especially at idle.


Something's up with your head our shaft I'm guessing.


I'd pop the shafts out and verify the saddles are true, and verify the rocker shafts are straight (and see if the rocker shaft is still round at the bolt hole).  Are you running rocker shaft saddles?

[motorhead]

Ramp rates on the lobes are a major part of the valvetrain noise issue, will be contributing to wear/breakage potentially as well.

[blown1]

yup, using support saddles on the roller rockers, but not on the  stock rockers,
breaking bolts on the  rollers,
putting pushrods thru the rocker on the stockers.

OH, I'm looking for ONE HD rocker shaft, the thick one, as I managed to break one,

today I'll be  carefully  taking the motor apart, to see where the screw up  is. ( besides me)

I didn't  think about  the grade 8 bolts being fake, came from the  local tru value hardware,

most of my bolts are from co called "Bolt Depot"   online,  now you have me thinking...... ...

going back to  206 hyd flat tappet  cam from elgin.

I'll  post up my results on disassembly .

[Scoobum]

Has anyone tried one of these with 130 lb valve springs and stock rockers and had any success?

http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=45&sb=2

[blown1]

1st, I'm a slow learner, and  usually takes 1 or 2 times  for me to get it.
I have a complete valve  grind/ seat grinding equipment in my garage,  including Rimac valve spring  tester.
I cut these heads for 1.71 intake and 1.51 exh valves, using ferrea stainless "hi flow" valves.
I cut both  valve guides down, (seals on intake only)
I tried  various valve spring  on these heads, started with  125 installed @1.72,  and 310 @1.20, with 313lbs per in spring rate.
then changed to 105@1.72, and 280 @1.20 , and 285lbs per in spring rate

comp cams recommends  105@1.80and 293@1.20, with 313lb per in spring rate.

tried stock rockers (HD/thick shaft)  broke rockers, and a shaft.

I have 7.950 pushrods, 8.00 push rods, and 8.050 push rods, all hardened ,
I tried all of them, no success.
I was using GM shim head gaskets, as I had about 20 sets stashed away, (.032 thick)

I thought I was careful in setup, as I used adj pushrod  to get my preload on the  lifters,

we've been with out power (elect) for the last 15hrs,  had hi winds (60 mph gusts).
so I haven't  been in the garage, to inspect   this pain in my ass.
but time is my friend, as us old /retired  grouchy  old fucks  have nothing else to do.

[earlbrown]

Your setup is very close to mine. I have a 215/220 roller with thick shafts and stock rockers with a set of my shaft supports.  I was to say I have 125 seated and 350 over the nose. Same O/S Ferras.  I'm running beehive springs so I could possibly get away with a little less poundage.

I still have the factory hold down bolts with no breakage. I've never felt the need to upgrade them to some of my fasteners.

If your online bolt supplier is the one I'm thinking about, I can't say for sure, but you might have a bunch of Chinese crap.  Notice I can't come close to his prices with my bolt kits since I only use actual industrial stainless fasteners.

Where are your bolts breaking at?  Are they popping off under the head, where the threads meet the shank, or is the shank stretching to the point of failure without a clean break?

[blown1]

on the grade  8 -  5/16  bolts the heads pop off,  i thought maybe I was over tightening them .
 but upon loosening them , was about 35lbs, (I say about ,as I didn't use a torque wrench)

I'm thinking  that may be part of the problem.

I used a lock washer  under the head, ,partly to hold it tight, and partly to spread the load.
 the rocker spacers are made from a grade 5,  3/4 nut,  reamed to size,  the cut in half,  with 5/16 hole
drilled  in it, I matched  it with the T&D factory  spacers. same width,and ID.