IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: Gary Wells on October 24 2006, 08:17:29 PM
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Just had my 60 motrons/mototrons installed Sunday, along with a Neal Steward 60 X 100 octane chip, and does the car purr now. noticable better idle quality, a little smoother through the full RPM range, a little quieter, just waiting to order, receive, & install a PSM cold air set-up, maybe some minor tuning, and then off to a dyno. think that I want a TA-60 now, too. Maybe a Griffin aluminum radiator? Anybody got any pics of any Griffin aluminum radiators? The pics on their website sux, & they would not send me any. About $ 780 to my door, and they can't even take a couple of pics and send them to me? I am curious about what they look like in general. Clean lines, welding, & so forth?
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umm a 60 and your 49 are basically the same bro.... put your alky kit on or give it to me
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The 60 puts out considderably more, but looks the same. Maybe if you're
really good, Santa Wells will be good to you.
I bought 60's for mine as well, but I haven't installed them yet. I've
seen the Griffin radiators somewhere before for a lot less money. I think it was Summit, but I'm not sure. I think they require adaptors for some of the lines too.
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i will disagree... the consensus is that the 60 is not a worthy step up from the 49.... a 61 yes 60 nope...
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I appreciate everybody's input, but, you guys know me, I'm an old fart and I like to make small changes, that is why I would like to try the 60, about 25 horse more, I have heard, & looks the same, biggest that I can go in the ta configuration, & Santa Calus Wells is going to be good to himself this year. just like last year. I will definitely run out of money before I get this car done though.
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yah do you really want to spend $750 for 25 hp? And arent you only running 16 lbs of boost? its not 25 more hp at 16lbs, maybe 24-25 etc...
you can get TA 61, 62's...
waste of money in my opion....
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I'll agree with Phil. If you have 60# injectors, put them to use. Make sure your Griffin has the tranny and oil lines too, lest you need an auxillary cooler. I think they DO have the lines though. But why do you need a Griffin? You should be at 165-170 on the freeway as is. Any cooler and you'll wash your cylinder walls down with fuel and the damn thing won't ever get in closed loop.
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I currentlu run 21.5 # of boost, give a half of a # or so. This is on a vacuum-boost gage with a tell-tale reset that I watched being calibrated where I work. So, basically, in a nutshell, I know that I am running 21.5 # boost at full boogie. I rechecked my E-mail from Griffin Radiator and yes, they come with both coolers in the correct factory locations & 1.5" tubes, but financial wise, they are a freaking disaster, at $769 + 45 shipping to my door. And yes, on a cool morning, as a 5:30 A.M. run to DD's my temp is generally about 162-165 or so, but that creep up in slow moving or stopped traffic to about 175 or so. If i can attach the picture, see how nice that corner of the Griffin looks peeking out from under the radiator hold-down brace. I just want to verify that the rest of the radiator looks that nice. You guys don't want a TA-60 because you guys have more brains than money, now me, well, never mind. Oops, can't post, pic too big. Oh well.
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Ask Lou and Morgan, they will both say keep the 49... :)
Do you even need a rediator too??? 175 is good...
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Gary, do you have a downpipe? And do you have the stock turbo elbow? I'd hope your cat is gutted too. No sense in going up 25hp potential if it's choked off too. Something to think about.
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Don't undervalue 25 hp. I've seen magor racers work alot harder for alot less.
Every little bit counts, and makes the difference between winning and losing.
Yeah, there are more cost effective options, but if thats what you want, go for it.
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All the standard "Yellow brick road" to RWHP & RWTQ have been done to this car. THDP, gutted cat, dynoed 300 rwhp & 366 rwtq a couple of months ago on a fat tune with 100 octane UL VP fuel. And I know what Morgan & Lou would say. Only problem with that is it is not their money. I am interested in finding out what the real rwhp & rwtq with everything else the same between the two turbos. I show no detonation whatsoever with 100 octane at 21.5 lbs of boost. So i might be good for a few lbs of boost more with my current set-up, but with a bigger wastegate. I am about stretched out as much as possible with my lo-po wastegate, and the Race Jace Hybird seems about out of adjustment also. I have a brand new hi-po wastegate hidden away. Matter of fact, I have brand new hi and a low waste gates hidden away. Thank God for stuff you hide away for a rainy day.
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Also with the intercoller you have, you'll likely gain more than 25 hp from the 60.
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Gary, do what you want to with your car if it makes you happy! That's what I do!
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Is there such a thing as a "TA-61"? I know that there is a TE-61. Do the TA & or TE 61 have any real gonads at street level. Low level rpm, like pulling from start?
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yes there is a TA 61 but they are not THAT common... I think Brent over in Yorba Linda is running one.
If you only dynoed at 300 hp you have way more in the 49... Just trying to save you some money my man....
Why havn't you put your alky kit on? Its just collecting dust give it to me
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Yes, of course! I have a TA-61 on my car.
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yes there is a TA 61 but they are not THAT common... I think Brent over in Yorba Linda is running one.
If you only dynoed at 300 hp you have way more in the 49...
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Yes, of course!
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Yes, of course!
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Is there such a thing as a "TA-61"? I know that there is a TE-61. Do the TA & or TE 61 have any real gonads at street level. Low level rpm, like pulling from start?
They do, and them some, when matched with the correct torque converter. TE's are better.
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Is there such a thing as a "TA-61"? I know that there is a TE-61. Do the TA & or TE 61 have any real gonads at street level. Low level rpm, like pulling from start?
They do, and them some, when matched with the correct torque converter. TE's are better.
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Rob:
You did it. You said the magic no-no word for me. I can get by without a converter with a 60, but not a 61, huh? The buck stopped there.
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Is there such a thing as a "TA-61"? I know that there is a TE-61. Do the TA & or TE 61 have any real gonads at street level. Low level rpm, like pulling from start?
They do, and them some, when matched with the correct torque converter. TE's are better.
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Rob:
You did it. You said the magic no-no word for me. I can get by without a converter with a 60, but not a 61, huh? The buck stopped there.
You can still run it, but it'll be a little laggy without a converter.
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Gary, they maybe able to put a ball bearing center section in the TA/TE turbos now. I have not checked..... If so, then that would remove the torque converter from the spool up equation.
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I have heard that the bb turbos spool quicker, but if you thinkk about it, the only real difference would be the difference in friction. I think that I had better take my chances with a TA-60. I don't trust advertising hype all that much. I am suprised that I did not hear a fight with you guys about me staying on racing fuel for a while, but I believe and have heard that that alky can make more power, but the only difference would be the extra cooling effect from the alky sprayed into the airstream. PSM (Pete Tomka) fresh/cold air package going on shortly, then on to the dyno. My last dyno was 300 RWHP & 360 RWTQ, and I am going to guess that with the bigger injectors, new 60 chip, & cold air package maybe 320 RWHP & 385 RWTQ. Any other guesses?
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I have heard that the bb turbos spool quicker, but if you thinkk about it, the only real difference would be the difference in friction. I think that I had better take my chances with a TA-60. I don't trust advertising hype all that much. I am suprised that I did not hear a fight with you guys about me staying on racing fuel for a while, but I believe and have heard that that alky can make more power, but the only difference would be the extra cooling effect from the alky sprayed into the airstream. PSM (Pete Tomka) fresh/cold air package going on shortly, then on to the dyno. My last dyno was 300 RWHP & 360 RWTQ, and I am going to guess that with the bigger injectors, new 60 chip, & cold air package maybe 320 RWHP & 385 RWTQ. Any other guesses?
Gary, what are you getting for AFR readings, and scanner data ? Alky will make a big improvement on those numbers. BB turbos kick ass, but are very expensive.
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Gary,
If you're looking for a turbo, check with Taffy at B&E Customs. He gave me a great price on my GT-61 Limit Engineering-built turbo. He can give you a deal on the "C" word also, if needed/wanted. Great guy to deal with. I'm sure Robert would agree, also.
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I have heard that the bb turbos spool quicker, but if you thinkk about it, the only real difference would be the difference in friction. I think that I had better take my chances with a TA-60. I don't trust advertising hype all that much. I am suprised that I did not hear a fight with you guys about me staying on racing fuel for a while, but I believe and have heard that that alky can make more power, but the only difference would be the extra cooling effect from the alky sprayed into the airstream. PSM (Pete Tomka) fresh/cold air package going on shortly, then on to the dyno. My last dyno was 300 RWHP & 360 RWTQ, and I am going to guess that with the bigger injectors, new 60 chip, & cold air package maybe 320 RWHP & 385 RWTQ. Any other guesses?
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Gary, what are you getting for AFR readings, and scanner data ? Alky will make a big improvement on those numbers. BB turbos kick ass, but are very expensive.
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Hell, no wonder, Scanmaster, I thought that thing was as MP3 player, no wonder I do not hear any tunes.
Seriously, I am afraid to take my eyes off the road on a balls out run, which is generally a stomp from about 40 or so on a freeway onramp, and I generally shut it down after what seems like only a few seconds as the speedometer is already pegged at 85. Boost generally hits 21.5 or so, maybe 22, and all I do is look for knock retard. Always none there. Guess that I will have to learn to use the SM while watching the road at the same time. Sounds like me trying to chew gum and talk at the same time. I do run low on the blm's, I know, cruises about 110, will run up to about 128 or so when I accelerate a little, but drops back down to about 110 or so at steady cruise. The TPS is about .5 or so, I know, a little high, but I need to remove some material to get it at where it is supposed to be at full boogie, and .46 at idle. I am sure that I could drop the fuel Pressure a little, is about 43 or so now, and I don't run a gage on it full time. I guess that I need a fulltime fuel pressure gage, whether I want one or not. BB TA-60, hmmm, I might look into that.
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With a BB center section, you may be able to go bigger than a 60 on the
stock converter. Check with a Turbo Guru on that. As for scanmaster readings,
I meant those associated with the dyno runs. I think your present combo should yield
higher numbers than you've posted.
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Car's only been on the dyno that one time that it yielded 300 RWHP & 360 or 366 RWTQ, don't remember which, and that was at about 18 lbs. of boost, I think, but with 100 octane and a Neal Steward street chip. It was running pretty rich and whatever the #'s are that should have been in the high 700's were in the 820-830 or so range. I asked Neal to burn this chip on the conservative side with guaranteed no knock retard issues. We will find out when I get the cold air package on and re-dyno, as I am sure that the stock air set-up with a k & N is starving off the air supply. Maybe that would explain why it seems to run a little rich & explain the low blm's. I should do the cold air package before I do anything else, I guess. Let's see here, cold air pakage, hi-po wastegate actuator, dial down the fuel pressure re-tune to maybe 23 lbs of boost & re-dyno. Sounds like a plan, man. What do you think that I should have pulled on my old set-up with stock injectors conservative chip, 18 -19 lbs of boost & 100 octane.
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I misunderstood. I thought you did that with the 60# inj. Stock inj
would be running static at those numbers. You may be able to
squeeze a little more out of them if you cranked the fuel pressure,
but you'd have to have Neal cut back the PW on them for everything but WOT.
You're better off with the 60's anyways.
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Yeah Gregg, Taffy gave me the best deals. He was always at least $25 cheaper than anyone else.
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Ok, thanks, everybody, I will give Taffy a call or E-mail when I decide to go bigger.