IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: phil_long on May 07 2012, 06:30:44 PM
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ok, so i been chasing this voltage issue(low voltage on my SM), and been researching a lot between Steve's website and turbobuicks.co m. I decided to look at the ecm after looking at the ign switch, bat terminal, etc. Seems like i'm getting about 4 tenths of voltage diff when just moving the ECM. I want to check the connectors for corrosion, but my dumb behind dont know how to remove the plug without breaking anything. and, which wire into the ECM am i checking for? pink/black? thanks
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Phil...if you look at it, you will see some retaining clips that hold the connectors down...pop them loose
Then pry gently up on the connectors, one at a time, and they will come unplugged. Seems like one has to come off before the other one can come up/off.
Believe A6 is the one that you want http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/ecmwiring.htm (http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/ecmwiring.htm)
I would unplug the the battery just in case you touch the wrong spot while cleaning....ev en tho A6 comes from the key.
Beyond corrosion, look for any pins/wires that are not completely pushed into the connectors....
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will do. Thanks steve
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This is really pissin me off. im trying to upload some pics so you can see my findings and ths stupid thingy keep spinning in circles
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just fix it...ten thousand words are a lot more interesting than a picture!
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...
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would alcohol be safe to use for the pins?
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ten thousand words?? Lol
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looks like you have had the classic water leak....best solution would be to buy the new harness ends from John Spina and start soldering.
Alcohol should not hurt, don't know if it will help
I have not had much luck with contact cleaner...migh t be tempted to try vinegar right before I called John to order the new connectors...
Ed probably knows how to clean them...I guess a soft brass brush might help a bit?
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Fix that and your car will go down the road saying thank you, Phil, I love you, Phil....
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are the ends from John expensive? Soldering is right up my alley, but doing it in that little space could suck. Is there a link to that part from john?
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I am pretty sure he has them, but, I can never find anything on his site unless I am having an extra lucky day. Davewentmissis ing will find them I would guess
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thanks steve. im going to try and clean the contacts as best i can for now
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These are nice- maybe your mechanics/comms guys have one to borrow?
http://www.eraser.com/products/component-preparation-equipment-product/br2f-eraser-fine-stick-brush-2/ (http://www.eraser.com/products/component-preparation-equipment-product/br2f-eraser-fine-stick-brush-2/)
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http://www.casperselectronics.com/store2/product_info.php?products_id=1100 (http://www.casperselectronics.com/store2/product_info.php?products_id=1100)
http://www.casperselectronics.com/store2/product_info.php?products_id=999 (http://www.casperselectronics.com/store2/product_info.php?products_id=999)
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Thanks, Dave! Knew I could count on you!
that is what i would do Phil...in the long run you will be way ahead of the game...second link above
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Looks like you have nothing to loose. Anything that doesn't melt the plastic is probably OK in this case- just wash it all off with alcohol as a last step. 1000 grit paper? contact burnishing tool?
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And that is bad enough that you would need to gently bend the tang and pull each contact out individually and clean them just to see how corroded they are.
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i switched out both my plugs.
just take your time unpin one at a time inspect and clean then put back together.
like said already -- a soft, long bristle wire brush should do the trick on the ECM side.
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Thanks a lot for the assistance. 1st step will be cleaning, and seeing how it goes from there. And to be clear, the splice harness is meant to replace the old cable, meaning cut the old connector off and match the wires up and splice together correct? Not a lot of room to work with there. And, the first link provided, what's the difference in the two? Is the first link JUST the connectors? thanks again for the help
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Thanks a lot for the assistance. 1st step will be cleaning, and seeing how it goes from there. And to be clear, the splice harness is meant to replace the old cable, meaning cut the old connector off and match the wires up and splice together correct? Not a lot of room to work with there. And, the first link provided, what's the difference in the two? Is the first link JUST the connectors? thanks again for the help
ok nevermind, one is just the the ends. So, does the wires extend out any further from behind the glove box so i can have more room to work with? Just wanna be clear. I suppose Steve suggested solder instead of butt connectors because soldering is more durable? thanks again
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You could remove the seat to get more room to work.. If it comes to that.
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One has to wonder if one is able to get the corrosion off, will there be any pin left?
I guess it depends on what kind of butt connector you use. I have seen far too many that don't make good contact all the time and/or eventually turn green under the crimps and go high resistance under load causing all kinds of intermittent problems at the wrong times.
Unless the joint is at a vibration zone, I prefer solder even tho it is pretty funny watching me trying to solder these days...one eye, no depth perception makes it a task trying to touch the solder to the heated spot.
You have a lot more experience doing such things than I do, Phil...choose your poison and get after it! Take the seat out and lay in the floor :)
make sure that windshield and/or heaterbox leak has been sealed up so it does not get more water in there
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Damn Steve, that's a grand idea!!! taking the seat out. that job is going to take at LEAST a day at best(not the seat removal, but the soldering of the wires, I like to take my time); and, if i dont complete the task at hand, i can send my car to Texas so you could do it!! :D
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I put my soldering station to good use, but it sure takes me longer these days....not like the days when I could build a heathkit in a few days
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i realized that I have the ability to do everything to my car(seeing that I make connectors and build cables and blah blah blah) but i lack the confidence on working on my own equip. At work, i can knock it out no matter what cabinet project they put in front of me, but the stuff at home? I always turn the other way. :(
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you ain't the only one like that LOL
You are just normal
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There is the possibility that you could soak the wires in a solution that would remove the corrosion; and then apply compressed air plus significant drying time before reconnecting any power to the system.
Either way that is a mess...
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I guess normal is cool.
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There is the possibility that you could soak the wires in a solution that would remove the corrosion; and then apply compressed air plus significant drying time before reconnecting any power to the system.
Either way that is a mess...
My cousin Charles suggested the same thing. Said he did it for his car. Due to him not driving it right now, I'm not too sure how that worked out. But, it doesn't cost anything to try it so I suppose i can do that.
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I don't think that damn Charles even owns a car. If I were you, I would trade him for a more useful cousin. One that does not have to move once a month would be a good start!
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A new plug with soldered wires will work great.
that said
if i could a void doing that i would for the only reason of the increased size of the wire harness when you get done -- Diameter not length. Even if you offset the connections there are so many wires that it will still add up.
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So don't splice it, put the connectors on.
AJ___
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I don't think that damn Charles even owns a car. If I were you, I would trade him for a more useful cousin. One that does not have to move once a month would be a good start!
I literally laughed out loud when i read this. Lol. I'm gonna text him and have him chime in. Lol
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A new plug with soldered wires will work great.
that said
if i could a void doing that i would for the only reason of the increased size of the wire harness when you get done -- Diameter not length. Even if you offset the connections there are so many wires that it will still add up.
And from my understanding, you are saying to solder OPPOSE to using connectors due to the larger gauge wire that the new harness uses? Sorry if i seem slow
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I think he's sayin' the tape/heatshrink/butcons add girth and the wire bundle is now larger?
M'self -I imagine using heatshrink over solder is not so much more bulky
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I think he's sayin' the tape/heatshrink/butcons add girth and the wire bundle is now larger?
M'self -I imagine using heatshrink over solder is not so much more bulky
If you are very good at soldering then you can do it and make it small and fit in the same area if you use kapton tape. A single wrap and you are good to go.
AJ___
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If you like Kapton then you'll like this wire:
http://wireandcable.thermaxcdt.com/viewitems/aerospace-wire-and-cable-m22759-sae-as22759-wires/mil-dtl-22759-86-wire-silver-plated-conductor (http://wireandcable.thermaxcdt.com/viewitems/aerospace-wire-and-cable-m22759-sae-as22759-wires/mil-dtl-22759-86-wire-silver-plated-conductor)
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stagger the splices up and down so they don't all end up beside one another.....in the end, I don't see what difference it makes if the bundle is a bit larger, anyway
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I bet Charles would just stick the two ends into one of those small plastic thimbles they use on house wiring and screw it down.....
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I think he's sayin' the tape/heatshrink/butcons add girth and the wire bundle is now larger?
M'self -I imagine using heatshrink over solder is not so much more bulky
Now heatshrink is a good idea as well. Def be a bit quicker.
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I bet Charles would just stick the two ends into one of those small plastic thimbles they use on house wiring and screw it down.....
:rofl: :rofl:
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And yesterday, im scrubbed the ECM with a wire brush as good as i could with some vinegar. that crap stinks. its been years since i've smelled vinegar.
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Offset pigtail splices, solder, and heat shrink tubing...
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And yesterday, im scrubbed the ECM with a wire brush as good as i could with some vinegar. that crap stinks. its been years since i've smelled vinegar.
You are obviously not from the Thunderbird wine generation. Yep, wire nuts and some Monkeygrip tape will work wonders.
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And yesterday, im scrubbed the ECM with a wire brush as good as i could with some vinegar. that crap stinks. its been years since i've smelled vinegar.
You are obviously not from the Thunderbird wine generation. Yep, wire nuts and some Monkeygrip tape will work wonders.
:rock: :rock: :rock:
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Wow Mr. Wood, I disappear for a few minutes and I get clowned to no end. I cant lie, its super funny though. For the record Steve, I DO STILL OWN MY BUICK. lol New job, custody battle, new job, foster child, wife, and new job got me SUPER busy...... I miss you too Steve. lol :icon_kidra:
I use to break half billion dollar jets, then I started breaking expensive C-17's as a higher grade mechanic. lol Glad someone had confidence in my ability, but I have gotten rusty being a IT Specialist Project/Program Mgr. :rock:
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Ok, maybe I wasnt breaking them. :rofl:
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Make sure you rinse what you scrubbed and get it really really dry. ( Hairdryer?)
especially the PCB
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Wow Mr. Wood, I disappear for a few minutes and I get clowned to no end. I cant lie, its super funny though. For the record Steve, I DO STILL OWN MY BUICK. lol New job, custody battle, new job, foster child, wife, and new job got me SUPER busy...... I miss you too Steve. lol :icon_kidra:
I use to break half billion dollar jets, then I started breaking expensive C-17's as a higher grade mechanic. lol Glad someone had confidence in my ability, but I have gotten rusty being a IT Specialist Project/Program Mgr. :rock:
Well, you are a lot more fun to clown than Zap when he goes missing and you are a lot better looking than he is if for no other reason than you are a couple of inches taller than him. I am tired of getting threatening letters from little people lawyers saying they will sue if I don't put in smaller steps so he can come up on my porch and provide a step ladder so he can get into one of my chairs to sit down.
Given that a billion dollars is chump change these days, I am not impressed by your breaking of half billion buck air planes. Those things probably could not get certification to fly if you pushed one off the Empire State Building into a 50 knot head wind. I built a lot of rubber band airplanes when I was a kid and they never flew either. Of course they are probably worth a couple billion today today and no one would get excited if I broke a few of them.
New wife, new kids, new job!? You trying to out brag Wendy? Clay will be in here shortly to tell you about his new boat, new dog, and the new boobs he bought his ex wife!
You need to quit acting like an adult and spend more time here at the asylum trying to help your cousin, Phil, sort out his car. May be that some of those IT tools will help him install new pins on his ecm wiring so he can just install the connectors and avoid breathing in lead fumes from that old roll of solder you gave him the last time you cleaned house while moving. Otherwise, there is one kid on here that wants to help him install telephone coax wire on the car. :)
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I think he's sayin' the tape/heatshrink/butcons add girth and the wire bundle is now larger?
M'self -I imagine using heatshrink over solder is not so much more bulky
Now heatshrink is a good idea as well. Def be a bit quicker.
Kapton rape is thinner and stronger. But you are the one that needs to be happy with the finished job. :atbeer:
Dave I have used many thousands of feet of that stuff. No need for it here unless he was making a new harness.
AJ___
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And from my understanding, you are saying to solder OPPOSE to using connectors due to the larger gauge wire that the new harness uses? Sorry if i seem slow
i Always solder and heat shrink like the picture shows.
i haven't worked on a Regal in a long time. So i don't remember how much space you have. If space is a concern plan a head for the increase in the size of the harness. Thats all.
I also switched out both ECM plugs and replaced a few pins, that wasn't so bad.
ALSO Caspers sells the bare pins if the wire is long enough you could just cut the old pin off and put a new pin on the wire with out adding wire or heat shrink.
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Do you need to fancy-dancy crimper he sells?
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You guys are super helpful!!! I'm going to throw the ecm back in the car today just to see if what i did made a difference and give my findings. I'm not too confident that the cleaning I did is going to remove ALL of the corrosion, but this is a start. Thanks gents!!
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Do you need to fancy-dancy crimper he sells?
i used a good needle-nose pliers and soldered them afterwards.
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Do you need to fancy-dancy crimper he sells?
A good crimp is better than soldering.
Soldering is better than a bad crimp.
That's the catch-22.
link to his crimp tool?
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http://www.casperselectronics.com/store2/product_info.php?products_id=696 (http://www.casperselectronics.com/store2/product_info.php?products_id=696)
http://www.casperselectronics.com/store2/product_info.php?products_id=683 (http://www.casperselectronics.com/store2/product_info.php?products_id=683)
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I don't recommend pliers.
The more expensive one prolly crimps the contact area and the strain relief at the same time vs doing it twice. Ratchet is nice to have. Thats actually very cheap is far as industrial grade crimpers go.
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A good crimp is better than soldering.
Soldering is better than a bad crimp.
That's the catch-22.
link to his crimp tool?
I learned something today.
Thanks.
BTW i'll still solder as it has never let me down.
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Do you need to fancy-dancy crimper he sells?
A good crimp is better than soldering.
Soldering is better than a bad crimp.
That's the catch-22.
link to his crimp tool?
This is not totally true.
A crimp with a soldered connection is the best possible connection.
Oh and if you want the best you want an exothermic connection but forget that in this case.
AJ___
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Do you touch yourself to a DiGikey catalog?
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Do you need to fancy-dancy crimper he sells?
A good crimp is better than soldering.
Soldering is better than a bad crimp.
That's the catch-22.
link to his crimp tool?
This is not totally true.
A crimp with a soldered connection is the best possible connection.
Oh and if you want the best you want an exothermic connection but forget that in this case.
AJ___
I guess we agree to disagree.
Solder wicks up and makes the stranded wire solid. the point where the solder stops is where all the bending occurs creating a stress point. You would then need to put a strain relief above that point.
Mil spec connectors are pretty much crimp except for old legacy parts.
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You keep a stock of thermite at home A.J. ?
:)
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Do you need to fancy-dancy crimper he sells?
A good crimp is better than soldering.
Soldering is better than a bad crimp.
That's the catch-22.
link to his crimp tool?
This is not totally true.
A crimp with a soldered connection is the best possible connection.
Oh and if you want the best you want an exothermic connection but forget that in this case.
AJ___
I guess we agree to disagree.
Solder wicks up and makes the stranded wire solid. the point where the solder stops is where all the bending occurs creating a stress point. You would then need to put a strain relief above that point.
Mil spec connectors are pretty much crimp except for old legacy parts.
Well better tell Mil spec that cause what you are talking about is capillary action and that is caused by poor technique.
IIRC late 80's Mil 457 something and 2000 but I am getting old and forgetful. I would have to dig into my paper work to be exact.
You can disagree with me that is fine, but it is not me that wrote the Mil spec or setup the course to teach people the way to do it. Engineering 60 IIRC
AJ___
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You keep a stock of thermite at home A.J. ?
:)
There are other ways to make those type of connections.
Ok enough of my babbling it is beyond the scope of this thread I will be quiet.
I apologize people.
AJ___
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Wire nuts...that is the way real men do it! :rock:
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Wire nuts...that is the way real men do it! :rock:
thats how i hooked up my "temporary" sound system. Its only been 2 years. :hmm
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I bought an Elky that had been started, but, not finished...guy had used lamp cord and wire nuts to install power door locks, windows, alarm system and other things....I spent half a day removing all that stuff...
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Do you touch yourself to a DiGikey catalog?
Real Geeks would know Newark and Allied catalogues have better pictures
:)
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I used to go to the Allied store to buy stuff...back in the sixties
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Geek Nerd..... yah me too. :)
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I was in my kitchen a couple nights ago cleaning some motorcycle carbs. For some reason there was green corrosion in the floatbowls and on the floats. (that's what I get for forgetting to drive my bike for three years)
I grabbed some CLR from under the sink and it ate the hell out of the corrosion. If you want to try that, take a aresol cap and dunk the plug into it for a few hours. Then blast it with parts cleaner or CRC electrical cleaner.
Since you're cool with soldering/crimping, I'd source the pins and swap them out 1 by 1.The harness would end up 1/4" shorter but there should be room.
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CLR would be a great idea. I dont think that the vinegar did the trick, but i didnt let it "soak" either. I def plan to give it another go. And Earl, are you speaking of the pins on the ECM or the actual plug? I haven't been able to remove them from that plug yet. Thats my next mission.. :D
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The actual plug. CLR comes in a plastic jug so it should only attack the corrosion.
Ebay sells pin extractor tools pretty cheap. I've been meaning to buy one for years now. Only problem is that the only time I really need it is when I really need it :)
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Ok, so the pins have to be extracted with a certain tool.
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Ok, so the pins have to be extracted with a certain tool.
I used a BIG paper clip and didn't damage any of the pins.
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Ok, so the pins have to be extracted with a certain tool.
I used a BIG paper clip and didn't damage any of the pins.
You sound like a pro, so maybe I can send the car to you? :D
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http://promotorcarproducts.com/sandingpen.htm/ (http://promotorcarproducts.com/sandingpen.htm/)
try this...any good body shop supply store should have them
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damn...that is neat!
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damn...that is neat!
been around for years...you can trim it down with a razor blade to get into small holes...is actually made of long fiberglass strands...you can put it in a hole and twist it and it cleans the contacts...goo d for relay spades and spark plugs...
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I havent seen that one before gbsean
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I havent seen that one before gbsean
If you cannot find one locally let me know and I will send you one
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http://promotorcarproducts.com/sandingpen.htm/ (http://promotorcarproducts.com/sandingpen.htm/)
try this...any good body shop supply store should have them
Nice - same thing I linked to but made for a different market.
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I havent seen that one before gbsean
If you cannot find one locally let me know and I will send you one
Will do. Thanks. And, i think i figured out what i'm going to do. Think I'd rather pull each wire/pin out of the plug one by one, cut the end off, strip the wire and put new pins on each wire. Should be cheapest route. Keep you posted
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Sounds like a plan.
Many of "those" extraction tools are just a narrow strip of steel and easily fabbed.
Not seen this specific one.
Prep pen:
http://www.amazon.com/CRL-Paint-Prep-Pen/dp/B001O459NO (http://www.amazon.com/CRL-Paint-Prep-Pen/dp/B001O459NO)
Can't find how fine the fiber glass strands are, ones I've used but come in different "coarsenessess"
(granularities?)
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Yeah, as far as I know, I was gonna "find" a way to remove those pins. Lol. I suck at planning, but great at executing. that crimper tool looks no different than some of the ones I have here at work. I will def get that prep pen seeing that the ECM wont be replaced. I'm going to thoroughly clean the ECM pins. I'm so back and forth on this. I want to just "soak" the connector in CLR because that seems the most efficient and cheapest of all possibilities. Question I have is, IDK what to expect once this job is done. Should my car "run" better, or is this just for the "comfort" of knowing that I can eliminate that as being the problem? Thanks again for all the responses
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Screw it guys, think im going to spend the 60 and just splice. :013: that's the final decision. Let you know when it's done.
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and to prove thats the final decision, i just spent $69.20 for the ECM splice harness side and shipping. When will this be over?
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damn, Phil! You are about as good as me at making decisions :D
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damn, Phil! You are about as good as me at making decisions :D
:rock:
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Ok, so the pins have to be extracted with a certain tool.
I used a BIG paper clip and didn't damage any of the pins.
You sound like a pro, so maybe I can send the car to you? :D
After you do the first ten you'll also be a pro for the next 25. :rock:
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Lol. Nice