IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: Shimy87 on June 14 2021, 08:31:41 PM
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I have a tt chip, marked 60 lb injectors , 93 octane, 15-17 boost. I think 21 degrees timing but not sure. I can only get 91 octane. When I roll into boost (12 lbs) in drive I get bad knock. I tried adding 6% wot fuel but I don't even get to wot. Will I need a new chip burned for 91???
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Under the assumption that it is hearing real detonation and not false, set the third/fourth gear timing to 18 degs
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I can hear it as well so pretty sure its real, should I set 1/2 gear as well? I punched it from a stand still and instant knock.
Also not sure on the timing marked on the chip, will pull it and check first.......th anks!!
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It will not hurt to reduce 1/2 by three degrees from whatever is marked on the chip as well. 18 degs used to be pretty much standard and they sometimes will be faster with 18 degs than with 21.
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make sure your fuel pressure is rising with boost
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Fuel pressure is rising
Chip says 20 degrees - 18 degrees
Also 16-18 lbs boost, seem like alot of boost for pump gas??
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I think 15 is pretty good on 91 octane. try 18-17. Bob Bailey used to set his to 17 in third gear in the old days.
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Thanks Steve!
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thinking about it, the alky is out on my GN and I think 14 is about it altho it has more compression than factory...it also has a 210 deg cam which should help...but 14 to maybe 15 is all it will do on 91
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I was thinking also,
car has a TA 49 turbo and a 3 in DP. Im guessing the chip was for a stock set up so I probably have to add alot of fuel also?
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Could be. Look at your o2's at wot toward the higher end of the rpm range if possible. If they are around 780, the fuel is good.
i'm not sure the Octane rating of today is comparable to the octane of yesterday so it may be difficult to make comparisons as to what it should do now. I recall that when 91 came out in Ca years ago. Everyone was turning the boost down or buying alky kits.
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Well, no suprise, this old girl is determined to be dificult. lowered timing in first/second to 17 and also in 3/4. added 10% WOT all gears fuel, turned up FP to 45 hose off for good measure. Still knocks, cant even get to WOT long enough to have SM retain info. SM knock got up to 4.6 when I lifted. I'm thinking I should just get a chip burned for this cars specific's? I tried to roll into boost in drive from about 40 mph also and cant even get to WOT before I need to lift because of knock.
another weird thing, after one pull, slowing down from 90 mph'ish, foot off gas, O2's read 0 for the longest time, then blipped the gas and they came back???
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Are you sure it's real knock? Bad tank of gas?
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gas is new, its real, I could actually hear it
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I'd reach out to Eric about the chip.
Can you add some octane? Xylene, Toluene, or something like boostane, racegas concentrate, torco, vp octane boosters to see if it goes away?
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Eric says chip should be fine on 91 octane at 15 lbs boost. Going to put everything back to defaults and start from scratch. Going to try to get powerlogger working, that would be a huge help also
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yes, it would.
Remember that a TA49 does not begin to outflow a stock turbo until it passes about 18 psi on a regular car with non ported heads, etc. It also may not spool quite as fast as a stock turbo given equal converters.
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Had a little time today dug into cruise not working. Prior owner had a checkvalve in backwards to no vacume to it.....fixed that and cruise works great. Thought maybe I would get lucky and that check valve was causing my knock issue...nope. if I run her at a steady 7-8 lbs of boost I can watch the SM slowly lean down until knock starts. I checked fp rise before and it was good.. Its obviously sucking in un metered air from somewhere but I can't find it. I have covered this motor in carb cleaner to the point of being seriously concerned about it starting on fire and no rise in rpm? I'm running out of things to check. I was told it had 60 lb injectors but maybe they are not? They are Moto....someth ing, I can't read the rest and the only common numbers on them are INJ- gas-006. Assuming if they are smaller injectors the ECM is thinking its sending the correct amount of fuel but its not enough so it leans out???
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Are you monitoring fuel pressure while you have your foot down to see if it stays up all the way? I am not sure it is sucking in air but it is possible.
If you are running 10 psi of boost, then pressure should set on 53 psi until you lift. If your boost stays on 10, your fp stays on 53, and the o2s dwindle down below 700, it sounds like an unmetered leak unless the maf numbers drop way off during the run.
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Need a pl log along with fp
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Tried to hook up PL and when I turn they key to on but not start car the SM just jumps numbers all over with O2 and knock readings constantly changing...... .I think the pl is junk unless you need to do something special with these new round SMs
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Not familiar with the new ones but...I would guess the contacts on the ecm are not clean enough
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Doing some research, evidently there is some capisitor mod that needs to be done to an older logger ( can't find any solid direction on it) and then a reflash to get the SM G to work with it. I have a post in to Eric asking whats up.
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:cheers:
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Btw, just hook logger up and not the scanmaster...t hen you can use your laptop and record some logs to see what is going on....
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Never thought of that, I can keep the sm hooked to orange wire so it will work also.
I did figure out I do have 60 lb injectors so that theory is out
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yeah, it would not have the right numbers at cruise if that were not the case.
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I attached the receipt for the chip - it should be correct for the setup.
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Thanks Mark, yes Eric got back to me and said it should work, just a bit lower on boost. Getting some pl issues sorted now and then will get knock issue sorted
Its all coming together, getting headliner delivered today and will have all interior restoration parts on hand to complete interior!!
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Update.....thi s power logger is junk so no logs to see. Hooked up fp gauge and tested. Cruise fp is about 41 on gauge, leaving it in 3rd and run steady 5 lbs boost for a long run, fp stayed steady about 47-48. Sm numbers move up and down and it starts to read knock...as high as 9. Then ran a steady 10 lbs boost, fp runs up to 51-52 , sm reacts the same.
New plan is to pull computer with logger out of my car, an old style SM came with car so hopefully that works and I will see if I can get a log to look at.
I had the windows down, I know what knock sounds like and if it really was pulling 9 degrees of timing I would think I would have heard the rattle. I did hear it for just a second on in the middle of the long 5 lb pull but it went away right away.
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don't be surprised if the pl log shows it to be false...if the computer is pulling enuf timing, you will feel it and the engine will miss
Or you may have a dirty injector that is not spraying enuf fuel
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Steve, I'm starting to believe it is false. Had the injectors professionally cleaned this winter. Put a new fuel filter in this morning and its a fresh tank of 91 non ethanol.
I hope I can get some logs!
Thanks!!
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logs attached, one normal acceleration to 60, on 5 lb boost pull and one 10 lb pll
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the log shows it to be running very lean as the boost comes up.
When the car is warmed up and sits idling, the O2s should be 780-800 and should be pretty steady rather than bouncing up and down. Is this what you see?
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yes, pretty steady in the 800 range, when you touch the gas for a sec it starts jumping again then settles back at 800 range.....I have chip set to 5% rich at idle so its just above 800
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Sorry. Just checked a warmed up idle log and its a steady 357 at 170 degrees water temp
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idle logs
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It may not have been warmed up quite enuf, but...
I don't know what the maf should read at 10 psi, but, I would think it would be at least 200???? It's not calling for much fuel at 160-170
maybe take the maf off your car and try it on this one?
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Will try it
So when I know its for sure warmed up I want to see 780-800 at idle?
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yes, and a steady reading over a close range...not bouncing to 400 and back up...should be a pretty steady line on the o2 graph
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might also try a short spurt up to 10 psi with more gas pedal. It is showing performance enrichment but it's not getting much air to be making boost thru the butterfly
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the log shows it to be running very lean as the boost comes up.
When the car is warmed up and sits idling, the O2s should be 780-800 and should be pretty steady rather than bouncing up and down. Is this what you see?
Hi Steve, Sorry for intervene this thread, but the O2 is bouncing up and down and not being steady around 700-800, what is the cause?
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I don't know is the short answer. The first time you start the car, it will not go into a simulated closed loop at idle. Instead, it will be learning the parameters it needs to simulate a closed loop. Here are the comments from Eric's instructions.
7. The very first time you start the car with a new chip, the idle may flare up to around 2000rpm.This is common, as the ECM has lost track of the idle air control motor’s position. Simply turn the
car off and wait about 5 seconds, then restart. The idle should return to normal.
8. This chip utilizes an open loop idle mode for smoothness (not emissions chips). The first time the
car is run, open loop idle mode will not be enabled. This is to allow the BLM’s to learn quicker.
Once the car is warmed up and driven around, the next time the car is started, open loop idle will
be enabled for a smoother idle.
9. The car may need to be warmed up and driven around for the ECM to re-learn, in order for it to
run its best. Once the car is warmed up (160ºF), most of the learning can be done in about 15
minutes of city driving. Open loop idle will not be enabled until the ECM has “learned” and the car
is restarted the 2nd time (does not apply to emissions chips).
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I don't know is the short answer. The first time you start the car, it will not go into a simulated closed loop at idle. Instead, it will be learning the parameters it needs to simulate a closed loop. Here are the comments from Eric's instructions.
7. The very first time you start the car with a new chip, the idle may flare up to around 2000rpm.This is common, as the ECM has lost track of the idle air control motor’s position. Simply turn the
car off and wait about 5 seconds, then restart. The idle should return to normal.
8. This chip utilizes an open loop idle mode for smoothness (not emissions chips). The first time the
car is run, open loop idle mode will not be enabled. This is to allow the BLM’s to learn quicker.
Once the car is warmed up and driven around, the next time the car is started, open loop idle will
be enabled for a smoother idle.
9. The car may need to be warmed up and driven around for the ECM to re-learn, in order for it to
run its best. Once the car is warmed up (160ºF), most of the learning can be done in about 15
minutes of city driving. Open loop idle will not be enabled until the ECM has “learned” and the car
is restarted the 2nd time (does not apply to emissions chips).
Thanks for the info, as for myself I'm still waiting for the heater hoses replacement, it's only been 2 weeks.
I will give you more update on my thread after receiving and installing heater hoses
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These logs are right after unplugging the orange wire underhood. I always unhook that when messing with ecm. So these logs are with only 10 minuets of highway driving.....co mputer was probably still learning? BLM was between 125 and 128
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yes, still learning and the chip does not go to open loop idle until the next start as per the above instructions
try the other maf?
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Away camping with family. Will swap it this week.....the one in the car now is brand new?? I also have another new one that came with car, will start with mine as I know it works right
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Hope you're having fun and the mosquitos are not bad wherever you are!
This situation is more complex because you are at about half throttle according to the tps. Power Enrichment came on at an lv8 of 140 which seems to be a bit high to me but it was on before the knock retard started altho I am going to look at that point again.
In PE, maf air flow and lv8 tend to control fueling as I recall but I think Eric still uses the tps at that point as well. It's been so long since I had a maf on my cars that I have not been interested in such. The SD chips like I have calculate a theoretical air flow using the MAP sensor as I recall.
If the maf sensor is reporting an air flow that is too low compared to the actual flow going thru it, then your chip is going to give it too little fuel and you will be lean. Your logs show it to be lean and I assume that is why it is pulling timing.
Now, the question is, too little fuel, or too much air getting into the engine without being measured? Seems to me it would have to be one helluva air leak after the maf to make it go that lean. The usual leaks don't have much effect under boost. It would seem to me it would have to be something like a hose pulling off the turbo inlet to allow it to ingest enough air to do that (or off the maf outlet) So a leak between maf and turbo. Be sure those connections between maf and turbo are solid.
As you took the ic off your car, we cannot compare logs under similar conditions at the moment. I suggested trying to run at higher throttle opening for a shorter duration to see if stayed lean at wider throttle opening... as well as swapping the maf. I am pretty sure it stays lean because you were having the apparent same problem when you first tried stepping on it before swapping the ic.
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btw, your tps is going above 4.25 at wide open throttle, correct?
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No mosquitoes yet!!!
Checked all connections before and were solid there. Like an idiot I did not check my IC for leaks when I swapped them....assume d it was solid but you know the saying about assuming things.
WOT does get above 4.25 but barely and you need to be serious about how your stepping on it to apply enough pressure to get it there. I have tps set at .42 but think I'm going to try to get it set at .44. .....trying to get a bit more at WOT to assure computer reacts accordingly
Also second guessing my translator settings as I can't check them now, will make sure thats right.
Thanks Steve!!
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The tps is fine. long as it is between .36 and .46v, everything is good. On the top end, it needs to be 4.25 in order to program the chip. It makes zero difference in performance if it is 4.25 or 4.9.
The leak would have to be before the turbo to really make a difference, I think. After the turbo, it would not be sucking air in except under no boost condition. Once you got into boost, it would be blowing air out the leaks instead of sucking air in. If anything, I suspect that would make it rich and it is definitely lean from the O2 readings
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swapped in another 3.5 inch MAF I had, set translator to base setting for that maf, no adding or subtracting fuel at idle. took it out and after warming it up did a short WOT blast. boost is only set to 10 lbs. file attached. this maf didn't get to 255 during this run. tomorrow if I have time I will get the one out of my car and see how that one reacts.
at warmed up idle this one will run about 800 O2 but the every now and then have a quick drop to almost zero and then right back to 800. also at cruise if you let off gas to coast to a stop sign the O2s drop to the bottom of the graph and stay there until you touch the brake or gas, then they move round again???
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Okay, first we have to be careful comparing maf air flow to boost. The first is how many grams of air are passing thru the sensor where as boost is resistance to air flow. Therefore a car with stock heads, cam, and a small turbo may require 18 psi of boost to see 255 on the maf numbers. But leave the boost setting where it is and install heads and big cam while keeping the same turbo and settings, and you may see 255 g/s while the boost drops to 14 psi. Adding an inter cooler that has less backpressure and you will also see a drop.
My guess is that you would probably see 255 on the maf around 18 psi with your current arrangement. 200 seems to be the right number for 10 psi of boost if I were to guess which I just did. LOL
LV8 and power enrichment happened around 106 which is close to what I was expecting. Now did the improvement in maf flow come from the throttle being wide open, or did it come from the other maf. I have no idea.
The knock retard did not resemble actual detonation. It looks like the ecm was hearing something via the knock sensor and jerking a little timing each time it heard it. In my experience, real detonation continues to increase the timing retard until you let off the gas instead of rippling the retard as was happening here.
If I were to happen to be right, then I would be looking for a source of noise. sometimes, it would be a knock sensor that was overly tightened (hand tight is about right), perhaps a tired sensor, or a too long belt that is allowing the tensioner pulled to kiss the ac compressor clutch pulley, a downpipe touching the back ear of the a arm, or the pinch weld at the bottom of the firewall. Or a bad tranny mount or a worn out hanger on the rear of the test pipe which is allowing the exhaust to "rattle"
In essence, I don't know if the maf improved things or it was the increased pedal. My cars tend to not knock at light throttle when the boost is coming on. Not sure what my cars do is truly relevant.
As far as the idle goes. It may be that the o2 sensor is hot enuf to maintain the idle. O2 readings seem to drop as the exhaust cools down at idle and run higher when the car has been driven that on a cold start in the shop that allows it to warm up. I know that Eric uses both coolant temp and O2 activity to command simulated open loop idle...I think I know that. Something like that may cause it to fall out of open at times...I'm not sure.
given the magnitude and appearance of the timing retard, I would be tempted to add a couple pounds more and try it again.
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oh, yeah, it's normal I think, for the o2s to fall when you let off the gas. That fuel injection trying to save gas and probably reduce some emissions.
I did notice that the O2s at wide open throttle were dwindling a bit as boost was maintained. Still looks like fuel was not being maintained...a s in reduced pressure.
It was much higher like it should be at the beginning of the run
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Thanks Steve. I did to a longish 5 lb pull at about half throttle and had a few small ( less than 1) knock spikes but they were there and gone so I think it was false.
The tranny was rebuilt in the car but never used before I got it. It is the hardest shifting car I have ever had. I adjusted the tv cable and that helped alot but still to harsh. Going to loosen the cable one more click to see if that helps but still shifts at the correct points.. maybe that's some of what its hearing.
Most of the usual suspects for stuff hitting causing knock have been checked.. i might try removing and reinstalling the knock sensor. Is there a torque spec for it?
Will try increasing boost after these adjustments to 15 lbs and give it a rip.
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Book says 14 ft lbs. I use hand tight. You might program 3 gear fueling to 135
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Thanks again. :cheers:
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Kinda sounds like the maf was reading low. These cars may be more magic than technology driven⁸
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Seems thay way sometimes..... it was a brand new MAF that was not working well and the old used one seemed to help alot
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Maf reading used to be the first thing we checked...but we have tended to assume the translator has eliminated that problem. Lately, we seem to be more maf problems again, it seems to me.
Powerlogger makes it far easier to get to the root of the problem. Altho, I admit that I was thinking about the problem after looking at the logs and went back to check the maf after I first look...popped into my mind the second go round. Of course, lotsa things pop into my mind these days LOL
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Steve= On the knock sensor should that be in/lbs?
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On line, everything says ft lbs. I will try to find it in the manual to double check. 14 inch lbs is really light..
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could not find it in the manual. GNttype says 14 ft lbs
Lawrence was the one that told me hand tight...of course, he also said to put a couple of wraps of teflon on it if it seemed overly sensitive and most everyone laughs that one off...except for me and Lawrence LOL
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thats funny, I was going to do the teflon wrap
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Join the club lol
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ft lbs seem to be correct
Sorry
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no need to be sorry. Someone needs to look after me!
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A while back I asked an member for torque spec:
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/misc/torque.html
You're right Steve, Knock Sensor to Block- 14 Ft-Lbs.
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Its a real good time trying to use a torque wrench with that bracket in the way....I went with Steve's hand tight specification
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turned up the boost, adjusted WOT fueling to 135, made a test run, attached files. was only pushing 10 lbs boost so turned up again, this time to 15 for a much shorter run. I think I put knock sensor back in to tight?? logs show knock but O2s are good....I think its false and I need to remove/reinstall knock sensor? Maybe replace it???
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It was too rich, this time. Drop the 135 to 130 and try it again. Some times being too rich will cause false detonation imo. I am looking for about 790 mv at the end.
That sure looks like false detonation to me. Again, real detonation starts low and gets higher each frame until you let off. Yet, the sensor is hearing something....s ome noise is triggering it. AS I said, this is more a ripple. It will not hurt to try another sensor...usual ly they are pretty consistent but I have heard of them not reading right. You could try swapping the electronic spark module between the cars as well. Some times they have stopped filtering the signal like they should.
Once Conley put a 221 deg cam in mine. Around 2800-3000 rpm it pulled timing like mad. Ease it up to 3200 rpm and then jump on it and the car sounded like a P47 winding up for a low speed pass. Best sounding buick I ever heard. The valve train was making a noise and the sensor was hearing it.
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Some versions of the 206 cam were reported to make a lot of valve train noise if I recall.
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I will try that and report back!! Thanks
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okay, didnt have time to swap modules yet. I did remove coil and bracket and torqued knock sensor to 14ft lbs. reduced fueling to 130, attached 2 logs.
I dont know what to think as I think I can hear timing rattle with windows open as i did the runs but O2's on these runs are not lean. ????? I need to get the module switched
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That still does not look like real detonation to me. But, whatever you are hearing would appear to be tripping the knock sensor/timing retard.
Maybe look at all the plugs and see if one looks noticeably different from the others?
Post the logs for Eric to look at?
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When I swap the ESC if that help can a guy get a replacement anywhere? I read a bunch and can't tell if they are available anymore
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I don't think they are. You would have to look for an used one. I don't think they fail often. I did read while searching that putting teflon tape on the threads is bad because it screws up the ground of the knock sensor.
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I read that also, but today when I removed it to torque it in correctly, the threads had all cut through the Teflon, had to be grounding ok.....you would need a massive amount of Teflon to effect the grounding I would think
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I agree. On the other hand it happens at times on coolant sensors and such
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Car show
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That's great! Memories are built on days like this
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Pulled plugs in kids car, was hoping to find a couple really white ones. They all look fine to me. Top row is passenger side.. the front one looks a touch whiter than the rest.. was thinking maybe an injector or 2 might have some trash in them causing my problem from when I first fired the car, lines were pretty dirty I found out then when I was checking fuel pressure. I still might pull them and get them cleaned again just to rule it out. This cars O2 just run way to low when you lift off throttle. My car doesn't ....it drops to some 350-400 numbers, kids car drops to alot of below 50 numbers, sometimes it even reads zero.
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That is what I was wondering... it should look like your other car
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Well, freshly cleaned and flow tested injectors and......same crap. Its definitely not a fuel delivery problem, and if its getting un metered air i have no idea where It could be coming from. When the knock shows up on SM, O2 is 790ish. I'm convinced its false and sensor is "hearing" something else. Next try will be some serious Teflon on half the knock sensor threads and instead of using torque wrench to 14 pounds just hand tight and try that. Have not switched the spark module yet, want to try this first. Then that. Running out of ideas. It runs so good with no boost, blms at 128, just really smooth and nice, starts great and idles smoothly...... I just don't get it
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Well, freshly cleaned and flow tested injectors and......same crap. Its definitely not a fuel delivery problem, and if its getting un metered air i have no idea where It could be coming from. When the knock shows up on SM, O2 is 790ish. I'm convinced its false and sensor is "hearing" something else. Next try will be some serious Teflon on half the knock sensor threads and instead of using torque wrench to 14 pounds just hand tight and try that. Have not switched the spark module yet, want to try this first. Then that. Running out of ideas. It runs so good with no boost, blms at 128, just really smooth and nice, starts great and idles smoothly...... I just don't get it
How are you measuring the un metered air?
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I'm pretty sure the esc is not the problem. You can swap to check
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Also, the question of unmetered air appears to have disappeared after you changed the maf and the o2s came up.
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Yes, the changed MAF did work much better. I wouldnt think O2's in the 790 area would create knock? I had to put the working powerlogger ECM back in my car so no logs, and the SM cycles slower without it, but the knock reading also jumps to high ( 5 to 7) numbers right away. I though real knock built slower.
other than tweeking the knock sensor, I also need to do a new search for ANYTHING that might be hitting/rattling or that is loose that it might be hearing.
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760-790 should not show knock in a normal situation particularly at those boost levels altho we know we cannot run as much boost on 91. We also don't know what the 91 that you buy might actually be.
I have seen o2 numbers above 820 appear to trigger the knock sensor. Some papers I have seen claim one can gave rich detonation. I think I will stick with abnormal combustion since I am not smart enuf to know.
Most real detonation that I have seen starts low and increases each frame with regard to timing retard until one lifts off the pedal. This seems wobble around in the same general level.
You say you can hear it. If you disconnect the knock sensor and try a run, do you still hear it?
you might try raising the octane some and see what happens. Most booster are junk but some say this works https://www.amazon.com/RACE-GAS-100032-Race-Concentrate-Octane/dp/B015HRK7ZS/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1530730329&sr=1-24&keywords=octane+booster&linkCode=ll1&tag=vs-ag-comm-topoct-20&linkId=3019e22f74fade18aabb7cfeb21f8ab7
the other one that I have heard works is the Torco unleaded booster
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Since I switched the MAF I have never heard it again.
I have some Torco I need to use in a different car, it does work, I will give that a try and see what happens
Thanks!!
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how old is the gas in the tank?
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Brand new
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I never get an easy one! :D
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Tinkering yesterday I discovered by accident the vacume line that used to go to the egr i think......the cap was broken, it only leaked when it was pushed against the wire loom there. Replaced that one. Also the turbo inlet bell has that tube that is always capped. That cap had a crack in it. Replaced that also but no test drive yet. Hopeful this might do something???
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Would not think so. That would make it leaner, but, your O2s look good at the moment...
On the other hand, such things can cause problems and need to be fixed to keep problem areas to a minimum.
If that fixes it, I will come back and edit this post :D
When you rev it under the hood, do you have any noisy lifters?
Have you added any octane booster yet?
Any blow by coming out the covers? I am beginning to believe we ought to have a catch can in the pcv line.
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I actually did start to hear some clicking when driving, under the hood not so much. Maybe an exhaust leak, not a lifter?
No oil leaks anywhere....ye t, only a matter of time.
No octane booster yet.
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I am sure you have noticed that my logic jumps around all over the place. You can blame it on old age, but, I suspect it is just because I have a warped mind and don't worry about conventional thought processes that follow some order LOL
I was thinking about a Miata video where a guy installed a turbo and somewhere along the line he plugged off the pcv line. When the boost came up, blowby pressure blew the valve cover gaskets and several other gaskets. Oil was all over the engine and smoke was boiling out of the exhaust. Now that has nothing to do with our cars where we typically install breathers on the valve covers and when the boost comes up, oil vapor comes out the breathers. It is much worse if the rings are sealing poorly.
Anyway, It made me think about how low octane oil is and how too much oil will make an engine detonate. Typically we plug off the line to the turbo inlet from the valve cover to prevent it from pumping oil vapor back thru the turbo and into the throttle body on the way to the combustion chamber.
It also gets sucked back into the intake thru the pcv. Hence, I was thinking about the practicing of installing a catch can to separate the oil out of the pcv system. Any oil in the tb, of course, comes from the turbo seals going bad.
Purely, a side thought along my train of thought.
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I have considered a catch can on my car. At the track it likes to push oil out the dipstick so I pull it and put a blocked hose over it, and it does smoke a little at the end of the track so probably pushing oil out the pcv and burning it.
I think this car has an issue with a valve seal. On cold start if you let it set and idle it will start to smoke....after it is driven and warms up it stops.
Hope to test drive it this afternoon after I get my chores done
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Crusing O2's act just like my other car now, numbers all over but very few below 200.
3 WOT pulls, 1 with zero knock, 1 up to 1.4 but was at 40 mph, ran up to 85, and one at 1.9, again at much lower speed than end of run....all O2 recalls were over 800. I did have some extra fuel in the chip.
Also now I do have an exhaust leak at front of drivers side header, will have to correct that.
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Like I said, I am sure that will help it! LOL
Sounds good!
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🤣🤣🤣 really need to get knock to zero but its progress!
When i add the octane booster, if I still get knock will that just confirm its false? Probably a stupid question but never had to try this. If it eliminates it what dose that tell me?
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If you add some booster and it keeps doing it, I think it says it is false knock. If it goes away, I don't know what could be doing it at such a low boost.
It looks so strange as if it is an incidental event. It does not grow in amplitude and it may diminish and then repeat again. That is why I think it is not conventional detonation. Once the real events, it almost always ramps up.
Have you ever tried wiggling each injector wire while the car is idling? Looking to see if the car misses for a moment which might indicate a bad connection in the injector connector.
Check the coil packs for resistance across each one after the car is warmed up? Or swapped the entire module/coil between the cars?
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convinced this car is cursed....star ted to fix the header leak and discover the heater core is leaking......n ever ends :icon_eyes:
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LOL...it's typical. You just have to wade thru the problems one at a time. Cars that sit for years without being driven act like this. Altho I see guys posting all the time about how unreliable their buicks are, most of them don't have a clue about cars in general and the car may have passed thru several owners who knew nothing about them either...just beat the hell out of them.
Usually, if you just work your way thru the problems, they will become good daily drivers. You just have to endure the usual problems that would have been fixed one at a time over the years.
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I hear what your saying.
Header flange was way bowed, had a terrible leak in the front and a smaller one in the rear.. im getting it milled flat at a local race motor builder.
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Particularly at low throttle, exhaust leaks can suck a lot of air back into the exhaust and that fools the O2 into thinking the engine is lean. It tells the ecm to add more fuel. As the rpm increases, this seems to diminish as the exhaust pulses are coming closer together.
Makes me wonder if the knock sensor has been hearing exhaust gas blowing out under boost.
Any ways....trying shaking those injector leads once it is back together
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I never thought of that, it would be great if this eliminated the knock problem!!!
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Car still had a slight miss at cruise so I swapped coil/wires from mine and gone. Rock auto sells a few coils. Any i should avoid or any i should try to get?
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I'm an AC/Delco fan for such items. That coil pack/ignition module was purchased "known-good/used" from a TB.Com member, FYI. Maybe Delphi.
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Back to working on this beast. replaced coil, wires and plugs. The vacume booster failed so replaced that. car runs really good, still dosent like boost. Spools quickly and staying under half throttle and up to 8-9 lbs of boost were all good, more than that and knock jumps in...alot.
chip says 20-18 on timing. if I lower the adjustable timing in the chip is that only for WOT or does it lower it all over? winter is coming so will probably send chip in then to be burned for exact combo in car.
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affects wot only..... but something is still strange. It should run close to 15 psi with no problem. Got another gauge to verify the boost level? Run a hose from under the hood straight to another gauge
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Can't get the other gauge out of my car. I set it to 14 psi ( by this gauge) and its better, not gone. Sometimes it pulls with no knock, sometimes it records 3 at worst. But really falls on its face when it starts to pull timing. Its random so maybe its hearing something else, gotta check the usual suspects for something hitting.
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I don't think it is real but whatever it is hearing? I have no clue. I had a cam in my car that set the sensor off a 2800 rpm when going wot. It jerked all the timing. Get above 3200 and it would not do it. Changed the cam and it stopped.