IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: Just a Six? on April 05 2021, 03:16:52 PM
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So I finally took the car outside & used my new Block Tester Kit to confirm exhaust gasses in the new rad.
I lowered the rad fluid about 4 inches before I started. With a warm engine I put an ounce of the Purple testing fluid into the large tube & proceeded to put the solid rubber end into the rad cap opening & push down firmly for a tight seal. Then sucking up rad only vapors with the squeeze ball provided & if the liquid turns from Purple to Yellow there's an exhaust leak.
My leak is so strong that as soon as I made a good seal onto the rad the vapors came rushing up thru the foam filter & within 4-5 seconds the fluid was bright Yellow. The pressure is so powerful that if I put the rad cap on for 30-45 seconds when I remove it the rad shoots fluid up like the engine is super hot. I don't even have a thermostat installed so its just free flowing & with the new rad & heater core it has a good strong flow above idle.
I'll do another compression test but assuming they are still all at 145-160 lbs I guess the 1st step will be to remove the intake & see what the gasket looks like? The motor oil was changed at the end of last season & it was a bit dirty but normal & today it looks like nice new oil so no milkshake or any contamination that I can see. Before I start the intake job maybe I'll save some oil in case I need to have it tested down the road because in the past every time I've removed the intake I get some fluid into the engine. Anything else besides the compression test? I know the plugs will be all over the place so I don't put much trust into them at this point. Thanks
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I guess that is the first step, anyway, David. I guess a leakdown test might be more definitive, but I think it's obvious that you have a big leak somewhere.
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Compression test and a leak down. Look over those spark plugs too. Any that look like they've been steam cleaned?
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The last time Steve put up some spark plug tests for me they were so far all over the place that it's hard to even understand them but before I pull the intake I'll get some rpm up with either a drive or in the parking lot before they come out. I'll keep you posted once I get started with on it.
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I'd tear it down before it hurts itself more and starts mixing oil/water, then you'll have a major mess to clean up.
My guess would be you hurt a fire ring on the head gasket, but it only leaks under combustion pressure.
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X4 leakdown. :cool;
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Dan, I am glad to see you around. Hope you all have survived all this mess in good shape.
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Dan, I am glad to see you around. Hope you all have survived all this mess in good shape.
one day at a time :023: Old age isn't whats it's cracked up to be :011:
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I know what you mean. My trick is to grab a 50# bag of feed out of the truck every morning and try to wade thru a mass of hungry goats and sheep that either want to jump up and stick their head in the bag while I am trying to pour it in a line down the road, or run between my legs and then try to back up. I figure if I do this ever day, I won't get any worse off LOL
You all don't have a spare SLIC sitting around that you don't need, do you? Guy on here was looking for an upgrade to his still stock IC.
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I know what you mean. My trick is to grab a 50# bag of feed out of the truck every morning and try to wade thru a mass of hungry goats and sheep that either want to jump up and stick their head in the bag while I am trying to pour it in a line down the road, or run between my legs and then try to back up. I figure if I do this ever day, I won't get any worse off LOL
You all don't have a spare SLIC sitting around that you don't need, do you? Guy on here was looking for an upgrade to his still stock IC.
I do admirer you work load especially at your age; I hope I too would be able to work like you do, and I'll be 69 this coming July. Don't get me wrong I work a lot of work upgrading our house, of remodeling, painting, and most of all working on the GN. But your work load succeed mine and many others who are younger than you.
God Bless you my Man
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You have the wrong idea, Julio. Other than getting up and feeding, I have not done much at all the past year. If there is no one around to motivate me, I just buy stuff and sit in my chair reading. LOL
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You have the wrong idea, Julio. Other than getting up and feeding, I have not done much at all the past year. If there is no one around to motivate me, I just buy stuff and sit in my chair reading. LOL
There's two things happens when I wake up every morning:
1- I thank God for waking up breathing
2- I tell my wife I'm sorry since during that day I'll screw up something :icon_lol:
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Wise man!
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I did a compression test & let each cylinder hold air for a minute to see if it drops & #1 is the culprit. They all hit 150-155 but in #1 after about 45 seconds the gauge was down to about 60 & all the rest held fine. Also all the plugs were fouled pretty bad except #1 was washed & wet but no gas smell so it's rad juice for sure.
I guess I should be happy I have all the parts including a set of VR head gaskets & lots of time since I lost my 30+ year contract for 600 units. Now today we go back into full lockdown so 90% of my work connections are all sitting tight for a while. The engine hasn't been out since 2009 & anyone who knows my past record also knows that I'll probably just pull the whole thing out. I'll make that decision once I get started on it tomorrow. I enjoy taking them out & pulling it all apart but not too fond of putting it back in.
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I'm would guess that Jeremy is right. Sorry to hear about the loss of your contract. That hurts!
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Thanks Steve the family that owned the properties were all the same age as my family & treated me very well but after the dad passed they gave us a years notice that they were selling. It's the #1 Hottest area of Toronto so they did very very well. Now some big corporation owns it & making lots of changes so I don't know how long I'll stay here but I have the space & the time so I'll probably do an overhaul before I head up north to the family property. Seems like the logical thing to do at this point so I'm crossing my fingers I can pull this off one more time. :chin:
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Sorry to hear David - were you able to keep your "special" locations in the building?
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Dave I still have the hidden room in the back of the lockers for the car stuff & some work items & one large locker. I still have a cabinet inside the car wash mechanical room but they have to open it for me because no more master key. Over about 5 weeks I've gone thru everything to sort & label & dumped a pile of stuff in the trash. Come summer I'm going to start deciding what's being sold off to thin down all the stuff I used once & now collects dust. I'll have some good deals down the road.
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My plan to R&R the heads in the car wasn't worth all the added aggravation & time wasted today (plus sore back) so I'm removing the motor only. This time I'm removing the front bumper & grill so that's mostly done. Engine mounts & trans bolts are all that's left to do so my buddy Ray will give me a hand on Sunday. I usually pull the trans with the motor but not this time so any tips on that? Not worried about it coming out but getting them back together on install has me thinking about it more than I should be. I'll snap some pics once the heads are off but so far the inside of the engine looks pretty good.
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You have more experience than any of us. Just do it lol
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Thanks for the vote of confidence! :)
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it should not be to hard to align the engine with the transmission with two people working. You will have to move the engine around a bit to line up the locating dowels but that's more tedious than hard.
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As you said Steve it was Nocooler Jeremy that's correct :cheers:
Engine is on the stand & heads are off it was pretty obvious that #1 cylinder was flowing through the fire ring & going a couple inches to the water jacket. On the plus side that piston & valves are cleaner than the rest which were Very Carboned up from running rich the past few years so brake cleaner, emery cloth & rags with lots of elbow grease & the pistons are pretty clean. I broke down & used a soft brass wheel & the drill for the heads. The only oil leak which I always thought was the valve cover was actually a few inches of intake seal were blown out. I used the rubber pads with Right Stuff on all sides & the corners so not sure how that blew out? The rest so far is all pretty decent so next is the oil pan & see how the rear main looks. I'm thinking I'll pull the front cover & paint it & take a peek at the roller cam? I don't know it's not leaking now so maybe just leave well enuf alone? The valve cover extensions put on with Right Stuff have become part of the block now Man those things are on really good!
Question I have stock worked heads with the large valves & I thought people didn't use Valve Stem Seals with the larger valves but I have them on mine & I would have bet they weren't used but the machinist installed them & he's done many of our motors & all but one of mine over the years. I can't say 100% they weren't used in the past but I "assumed" they weren't used? :chin:
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we always use valve stem seals on the intake valves. Not much need on the exhaust because they don't suck oil down around the stem into the combustion chamber and the heat on the valve stems burns them up anyway
Spray alky and that should keep the carbon from building up
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Wow glad I didn't bet on that with anyone! :icon_eyes:
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I don't see any need to mess with the front cover if it is not leaking...why mess with luck?
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Check the deck of the block and head - maybe replace the valve springs, put it back together, and send it!
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I was looking over the heads & block with a straight edge & feeling pretty good then Surprise Surprise I dropped the oil pan & the baffle was sitting in the bottom of the pan? I assume a spot weld let loose & the #6 rod cap nut hit it along with #5 & it was done. Good news is the nut barely shows evidence they hit (very evident on the bent baffle) so I'm going to drop by Chris body shop in the am & see if he has a spare pan or can weld the baffle back in along with seeing what he has for bumper filler connections. I knew it was going too smoothly to last! :068:
Edit It wasn't on the bottom of the pan it was just sitting on top of the oil while hanging onto the tube from what I can tell?
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Question about the rod bearings? I pulled off one cap on each rod to inspect & they look worn but not bad overall except #1 is dark like the oil got hot & burned looking on both sides of the bearing. I was able to wipe some of it off with a rag but the darkened look is still there. Also on #6 that made contact the baffle the inside has 4-5 light scratch marks & it looks a bit worn but nothing really bad overall.
These are Clevite .010 from 2010 & I have some King .010 I got from GBody back then for this engine but the machine shop said he only uses Clevite so these are sitting here collecting dust.
So I have to ask, can I use these King to do a swap or is that just a really bad idea?
I have a feeling I know the answer but I had to ask the question? :chin:
I took off one main cap & it looks almost new so I'm happy about that but a quick question?
Do I put a light smear of Black RTV or Right Stuff on the mating surfaces? There's something on there now that's turned hard & needs to be scraped off with a razor blade so I'm thinking it's a light smear of silicone or a similar product. Thanks :)
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Time to bust out the camera. Usually, if the big end is black it's not good, I'd check the clearance on that journal.
King bearings are just fine imo.
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Thanks for the info I'll see if I can post up a couple pics but I really don't want to start up with the machine shop.
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I've got the pics to my email but I'm hit or miss whether I'll get them posted up? Let's see what happens?
First 2 caps are same with different angles & the light scratches.
The burned one & the next seem worse in the pics but maybe I just don't see that good & the pics show it up better?
I really don't want to get into this motor & hopefully I can just install the new King bearings?
Wow I didn't realize the pics would be so big!
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I thought you meant the whole end of the rod was black - lol.
It had some heat in it - but I don't know if I'd be concerned. If the crank is smooth, slap the bearing in and send it.
What does Steve say?
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Doesn't look bad to me. Clean up lightly with a oiled ultra-fine scotch-brite pad and replace the bearings. I would use the same brand size and part# as the old ones.
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Thanks guys that's good news to hear! I didn't think it was that bad the pics make it look worse than it is IMO. I can't catch a fingernail on anything so I'll get out the scotch bright pads & some oil. :cheers:
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Jeremy, I did not see anything that looked seriously out of place so I was waiting for your comments :D Figured I might learn something...
Might could use a light align hone but I don't think you can reliably say that without measuring.... I am cynical and believe most machine shops cause more problems than they fix.
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Steve you are correct. A light align hone would be the correct way. But If you do that then polish crank then all that follows should be done also. Full machine shop service is $1800 plus parts on the way out the door. If what does fails he may spin a bearing. The above charges will be the same. Only pulling the motor again. I got away with many looking worse than Dave's. He is anal and will be alright:045:
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AGREED!
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Thanks Gentlemen when you're right you're right! ;)
Altho as I get older I'm learning that somethings are better left alone & taking them apart is more fun than putting them back together!
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I'm farther along with tear down than I had planned & since the main bearings look really good I'm not touching them just the rod bearings are replaced but this motor won't go back into the car & get started for easily 5-6 weeks so my question now is should I use some assembly lube on everything? I'll use my drill to build good pressure on the stand before it's installed but is some lube on the bearings a good idea at this point? :chin:
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Never hurts 👍
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Thanks Steve I have a new package so I'll use a few dabs as needed :cheers:
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OK got a slight issue with my 10 year old TA Perf adjustable roller rockers & lifters. As per the site rocker threads should be Flush on bottom where pushrods meet up. Now maybe due to dirt or me playing around with them because I put a squirt of oil to top up lifters & then adjusted the pushrods about 2 good turns in (so I knew 100% they all move properly) one lifter is tight compared to the rest. So I took it out & shot it with brake clean & then compressed air a couple times & it's still much firmer than the others so at minimum it will probably make extra noise when the engine gets running I assume? I can't compress it by hand like the others?
So should I soak it in thinners or maybe even all of them or let it ride & hope it will get better with engine heat etc?
It just happens to be #1 cyl (where the head gasket blew into the water passage) & it's the intake yet the exhaust on #1 is fine?
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This sounds like a Jeremy or Ed Baker question. I don't feel comfortable in telling you to let it ride. I wonder if it may have some rust inside from the water?
Anyway, my first suggestion is to soak the lifter in some Marvel Mystery oil and pump it submerged a few times to fill it up with the Marvel. then let it soak and pump it a few times over a period of time...
If that does not work, I guess either take it apart or replace it. I have not had that happen so I am shooting from the hip on this one
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Steve since yesterday I cleaned it out again & it goes down 4 turns 200 thous like all the others with the rocker screw & comes up without issues so it's somewhat better. I find some are easier to compress by hand & others like this one not as easy. A couple go down almost too easy IMO but I'm starting to go crazy with them. I decided to add an extra 1/4 turn so total is closer to 50 thous now.
Now I just messed up my new Intake gasket so maybe it's a sign not to button it up yet although I'm thinking it's more just me trying to rush when I shouldn't be! lol :icon_eyes:
I was reading an article here this am & Earl mentioned using an older style Intake gasket that doesn't have the EGR punched out so I'm looking for that next. Thanks for you help it's always appreciated! :cheers:
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http://www.fullthrottlespeed.com/turbo-buick-v6-performance-parts/buick-turbo-v6-engine-parts/turbo-buick-intake-air-induction/egr-block-off-plate.html
I could never get those gaskets to last.
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Thanks for the link I have one of those & welded up the hole. I was looking for an older style intake gasket without the EGR hole in it or that's what I got from Earls post back in 2016. I started looking local for a Felpro 96033 so that I had one right away & luckily the jobber I deal with had One left in the warehouse so grabbing that tomorrow. I'll be happy to get this finished & back in the car.
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I don't have an answer on the lifters. Normally the stiff ones are pumped up and the loose ones aren't. Can you prime the engine and try again?
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That's on tap for later today or tomorrow morning thanks :cheers:
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So everything is back together & I messed up the starter wiring because I have it modified & I'm now not 100% sure how it should go? I haven't changed anything from how its been the last 10 years.
Trunk mount battery (computer has a separate line of its own) Positive goes to 1st starter post along with Fusible Links. Then the short starter wire to 2nd solenoid post & that combo turns on 90% of the car & starter turns properly.
Here is the issue that I forget how I had it wired? Separate Positive wire from starter to an isolated block that runs fuel pumps & is also hooked to the Alternator. If I hook it up to the 2nd post I get no voltage unless starter engaged.
So should anything be hooked to #2 post besides the actual starter motor wire?
I must have had all Positive wires on #1 post but for some reason I'm nervous doing that? :chin:
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I did it & It's Alive Again! :rock:
After I read my post I answered my own question. :icon_eyes:
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:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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So how does it run now?
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Steve it fired right up & I idled it about a minute in the underground parking. I need to paint my front fillers & install the grill & give it a wash so I can go for a drive. Raining all day today so I don't know if I'll get out there but soon.
Thanks for all the help from you & the others here because it keeps me motivated but my back, right shoulder & my left hand are pretty sore right now. Everything was 3 steps forward & 2 steps back so I did everything about 3 times! :O
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I know that rear march bit...strange how I can screw up so many things in the pursuit of progress! Glad you got it sorted out and hope it runs like it should now :)