IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: phil_long on January 26 2021, 04:44:25 PM
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Hey guys, I decided to start a new thread on the build since the last thread I started is super old. The refresher on the build is as follows:
Stock 109 block. bored .20 over with a deck plate. New TA grooved cam bearings, new ARP main studs, #2 and #3 Pro-gram billet main caps, and block has been lined honed. New JE pistons, scat stock length forged rods, forged eagle crank(external balancing), new brass freeze plugs.
I just ordered the Aluminum heads already set up with the springs and scorpion rocker arms 1.65. This Friday, or possibly Monday, I will purchase the roller cam that the heads were set up for.
I will keep this thread updated with as many photos and info as possible. Stay tuned and I hope everyone is well!!!! :cheers:
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Sounds like a beast to me! Glad it is progressing👍👍
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It's progressing! Thanks so much Steve. I really want to keep it simple but Bison was recommending a different ECM. Any thoughts? I have to find a set of headers as well because the stockers I have are through. Can I reuse my intake or should I buy a new one? I'm all over the place. If you all could do it over again, what would you do? There are no wrong answers here. Lol
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Bling Bling!
For a street car, I'd leave the stock ecm. A more strip orientated deal - I'd consider a standalone. Who is going to tune it? If not you find out if they have a preference.
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Phil, I agree with Jeremy. For a street car that runs no faster than low tens, I would go with the TT 6.1 that is driven by a wideband sensor and put my money into something that could be seen.
If you are building a race car that will run into the nines (or faster), then I would go with the ecu-gn, or whatever it is called. Unless you want to dedicate a lot of time and effort to learning how to tune, I don't see the benefit, myself. I would hate to have to spend a lot of money to have someone else to tune if for me. You understand, I don't sell parts and I would not pass for a vendor even if I wanted to. Keep it simple and drive the car. That is what I believe no matter what the sales pitch is. :D
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I love the responses. Thanks guys!! Wherever I can save money I will, but I don't plan to cut corners due to pricing. I know how to tune through the stock ecm, as I will aim for a "safer" target for AFR. My goal isn't the track at all, but I don't want to open my motor up again for something more because I want more. As I've always said, I prefer to overbuild and go from there. I definitely plan to invest wisely into the fuel system, going with a bigger pump and better fuel lines.
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Need to send your stock intake to Champion and have it ported to match your Champion heads.
If your not racing it , I personally think you have to much rocker arm ratio. And what roller cam?
I agree with Steve , can’t beat the 6.1 chip.
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Good point, Tim. I wondered about the 1.75 rockers as well. Seems like that might be hard on the valve train for a street car. I am assuming that someone recommended the combination to him?
A couple of years ago when William Avila decided he wanted to go really fast, he was running a 6.1 chip. I was helping him tune via long distance. I think he was still running a 6262 turbo, or maybe one step bigger. Roller cam was something in the range of the 214s as I recall. It was the first one he bought when switching from a flat tappet that was not working well.
When he passed about 10.4 times, I refused to tune long distance anymore because I was afraid I would cause it to blow up. He just put the chip on the defaults as Eric had burned them and kept turning the boost up. As I recall he was around 10.2 or maybe a little quicker at the end of the season. At that point he was out of turbo. The next year he was running a MegaSquirt and a local guy that was learning to tune Buicks was helping him. He made it into the lower Nines with bigger everything.
At the moment he is running 8.80s right at 150 mph-still on a stock block. Of course bigger and bigger on the parts. Pretty sure he is running E85 as well. I am amazed that the drivetrain has held together. Transmission is a Turbo 350 and a Ford 9" rear.
All it takes is money and more money and the drive to go faster every time you hit the track. My opinion is that these cars stop being fun when you get out of the tens (Okay, Dan, I will give you 9.90s. LOL)
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Yeah, the 1.65 rockers were recommended by Bison, who's also doing the cam. After the cam is done, I'll update the thread on the exact specs of it. Would sending the stock intake in to be ported be cheaper than buying a new one? Also, I'm assuming I'll need at least a 62mm throttle body?
I definitely want to keep it simple. My goal is to run out of turbo. I plan to get a converter spec'd as well, but that'll be after the build of course.
William's car sounds incredible. Lol. I'm not sure I could enjoy a car that fast.
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I don't know about the plenum.
I think most go to 70mm throttlebodies with a three inch hose assuming you are using an innercooler with a three inch outlet.
I believe the converter is the key to any good running Buick.
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I don't know about the plenum.
I think most go to 70mm throttlebodies with a three inch hose assuming you are using an innercooler with a three inch outlet. Or use a step hose to make the jump.
I believe the converter is the key to any good running Buick.
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I have reread it twice and don’t see your intended ET or use of the car. Don’t see turbo size ether.
I like to see a person use Steve’s vortex section and build from a proven combination.
RJC has some good starting points too. Is Brian (Bison) helping you put this combination together? He has put down some good numbers. I bet it will run good. The quest for speed can be costly if you don’t follow a proven combo. Most good combination have taken lots of hours and money, and were lucky some shear this with us.
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Tim, he said it was not going to be a track car so it sounds like he is aiming for a fast street car.
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No!! fast street car not a track car us usually the hint to machine shops/builders that blame troubles are near when it blows up.
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1.65 rockers will increase lift about .030 -.050 over stock rockers depending on how the new cam is degreed in and push rods set up.. Also if your block and heads were decked that will add to the final piston to valve clearance results. I did similar setup and had to flycut my JE pistons. For clearance.
The intake whether old or new needs to be port matched. This has to be done with a mock setup with the heads on your motor. This has nothing to do with porting for cfm flow. The headers should be done also with the new heads.
Driving on the street @ 25lbs of boost will blow up just as easy as being on the track at 25lbs of boost. Only real difference is stress on rear end and axles launching on a prepped sticky track. On the street you just smoke the tires.
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I was really lucky my ported irons and stock ported intake from Champion the fit was perfect. I have a set of aluminum Champion that look like ported irons, I bet the intake ports are the same size and location. Got to love CNC.
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Alrighty, let's see where I can begin...
My goal is a low 10 second capable combination, and Bison went from there with suggestions and whatnot.
Currently, I have a pt6262 and ptc 3k L/U converter with single nozzle Alky. After sharing this info with him, he said I'd drive right through the converter with mid 10 second power and suggested an upgrade. He said the 62 all in should be able to get the job done if I have a intercooler with low pressure drop. I haven't gotten the details on the cam as of yet. I'll have that ordered sooner than later and I'll be able to share the info once that stuff is in hand.
Definitely a street car for sure, with an occasional WOT pull and a RARE track visit. I got a chance to ride in a Buick few weeks ago that run 9.70's and ummmm......... ...Let's just say that an 11lb boost pull in that thing was ridiculous, and it was set to 26. These cars are stupid when running right. I don't think I could've survived a 15 lb pull. Lol
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So to answer the question, yes Brian is helping me with the combo being put together. He's super smart and helpful with everything and i look forward to the car. I dont look forward to the money being spent for the tranny though. LOL!!!!
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All it takes is money and more money and the drive to go faster every time you hit the track. My opinion is that these cars stop being fun when you get out of the tens (Okay, Dan, I will give you 9.90s. LOL)
Yup !! $$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$ and mo $$$$$$$. PUT IT IN THE 10'S AND LEAVE IT ALONE . I will go forever. No brainer. :rock: :cheers:
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Thats the goal!!
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Hey gentleman. Just checking in to let you all know we got got started on assembly this past Friday. I'll update with some photos once I get home. I'm pretty excited about this build though. Thanks for all the help again. This coming Friday we should be ready to install the rods and pistons. I'm still waiting on the aluminum heads and the cam. Hope everyone is doing well!
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That is good news! Show us the pics when you have them :)
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im going to have to resize the photos apparently.
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800x600 works well
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Typical 4/8 megapixel stuff I just do a flat 25% resize.
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I was going to comment on the rocker ratio as well. What size cam are you running? Usually the higher rocker ratio helps when running a smaller cam.
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hopefully these come through
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I'll upload more like the crank. Im not sure why the other ones posted like that.
Regarding the Cam and Rocker ratio, I'll provide those details after I receive everything.
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Looks good! I'm sure Bison will make that thing move. He most definitely knows what he is doing. No need to worry there. :cheers:
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Got the roller rockers and roller cam in. Looking like a 212/212
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You are sneaking up on it, Phil. Will not be long now :)
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I'm hoping so! The aluminum heads are already paid for, just not shipped yet. They will be here soon though. My only thoughts now are where to buy headers, because my stock ones are cracked beyond repair(cause for my constant lean O2 readings) and where to find an external 3" downpipe. I'm also on the market for a really good external WG that will fit whatever 3" external dp I find. My mind is made up on the downpipe route, so suggesting internal or otherwise will be pointless. Lol. I've always liked the external WG setup. I plan to continue to run the coil pack and module from Highway Stars. I've been looking at this https://rjcracing.com/product/intercoolers/ic-315-xtf/ for the intercooler of choice. I like this design because they have other coolers in mind in regards to airflow. I'm still debating the throttlebody side of things, rather going 62mm or 70mm. All of this is exciting to me and I'm really happy to share this build with you guys. I have other ideas as far as parts I'm looking into, but I will leave it here for now.
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I would suggest going to the 70mm tb as it will not require an adapter to jump down to 62.
On the intercooler, it has been demonstrated by a number of people that are knocking on the door to the 8 second quarter that a PTE stock location IC will work just as well as the big front mounts and it will have better throttle response in normal driving.
During a run, the ic is not exposed to air flow long enuf to provide any cooling by air flow. It serves as a big heat sink to pull the heat out of the charged air. Cooling comes into effect as one is driving after the run and air flow is passing thru the IC removing the heat from the fins/tubes. In fact a couple of guys have proven the fact by stuff the intake with towels and making a run which did not improve over the unplugged runs.
Now, if you were road racing continually, it would cool some, but, you would have to reduce the boost a lot to keep from overheating the engine oil and blowing the engine....in a ten second run, the core just does not have time to be cooled. If you are spraying alky, this further reduces the need for giant intercoolers as the alky cools the air down a lot by itself.....che mical intercooling if you will.
Added to say, the front mount will cool down a bit faster after a run on the street from more air flow to cool it down but this does not help during the run. It will also keep the AC from working as well when sitting at lights or after a run because of the hot air going across the AC condenser.
The PTE IC is very expensive compared to the GN1 unit. They tell me the PTE is better...but, if you are only running, tens, it may not be enough better to justify the price. The really fast guys do some porting on the inlet side coming from the turbo to reduce pressure drop.
Dan (Grumpy) can give you more information as Melissa has been running a slic for years now and was knocking on an 8 the last time I heard.
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Thank you for the reply! I had read up on the slics vs the front mounts. I was only looking at the front mounts to free up some engine compartment space, and with the pricing of the slics, I figured it wouldn't hurt. As stupid as it sounds, i really wasn't looking at the IC from a performance standpoint because any aftermarket unit should probably flow better than stock. Lol.
Yeah Grump and Melissa has that car flying!! I love the KISS method approach they took with it as well. Kudos for sure to them
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I admit, it's nice to be able to change the belt without any hassle :D Other than potentially running hotter with a front mount, the potential of having a bit slower throttle response is the only other downside that I see.
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Gotcha. I'll weigh the options as I approach the the ending. I'm in a good place when the only thing I'm searching for is an intercooler. Lol. I'm ordering a front cover soon as well as some other needed parts. The list is quite long to say the least.
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If you are like me, it will keep getting longer....not as bad as an engine swap to a different type of engine, but, still...that itch to replace is hard to cure LOL
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Yeah I'm noticing that. I'm debating doing something different with the vacuum block, ground locations, etc
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Lol...infected!
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LMAO!!!! Most definitely
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Things aren't looking good, as I've purchased a set of aluminum heads from Champion at the end of January and I still haven't received them. Luckily for me I'm dealing with Bison and he's been actively all over this as he's the one I paid the invoice to. Fingers crossed this gets sorted out soon.
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it's standard with Champion. I think one of the guys passed away and that is not helping
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Yup, he passed away a year ago I believe.
The heads showed up this past Friday!!! Yay. I'm debating on getting them ported
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Won't do anything unless you are aiming for the 9s
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I'm debating on getting them ported
I wouldn't go crazy with a street car. :004:
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I had read a post somewhere that the TA heads and Champion heads required porting of some sort......it's somewhere in here
https://www.turbobuick.com/threads/my-new-ta-si-heads-and-gn1-aluminum-heads.441944/
If they good out the box then cool, I won't worry about it.
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When I read that thread, my impression that it was more a comparison of Champion vs TA and extracting the most power from both thru porting. Both need additional work to achieve the best flow.
I am not a vendor so I have no interest in selling parts per se. I sell goats and sheep and collect social security for a living. I don't have any need to get people to buy car parts. I think it is relatively easy to build a ten second Regal without assigning any magic to the parts list. On the other hand, I think the hard part is build one that runs day in and day out without breaking stuff.
Good heads are definitely on my list. I would have chosen well ported iron heads for longevity but we all know that I am probably in the minority (as usual LOL). Hopefully the build quality of Champions is such that porting is not needed as they slightly outflow a well ported irons out of the box as I recall from the early tests.
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This is why I post here! Thanks so much for that response. Back to the basics. My next step is to buy some stock headers. The quest continues
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Cannot help you on headers. Hopefully there are some out there that fit and and will last long enough to make them worth the price. Based on my on experience with other cars in recent years, look at the "goodness" and suck it up to pay the price LOL
I tend to buy on the price and then do it all over again...smh
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ummmm.. headers :chin: they will all crack eventually. Especially racing a lot. Had a custom made SS set for big $$$. Still cracked. NATURE OF THE BEAST. We have used TA's in mild steel an SS in a lot of street cars with good results. Fit great. :cheers: just my opinion. :atbeer:
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And you opinion means a lot!! Thanks for the responses gents. I'm really excited about this build. I'll be sure to update this thread with pics after I get back from Vegas
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The roller rockers and studs showed up today!! I have to work on resizing these pics still so I can post. We've made some progress with the getting all the rings gapped. Now we're in the process of installing the pistons
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Getting there!
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So, just to be clear, a standard front cover with the oil pump from TA or FTS should suffice? I plan to make the call tomorrow to order the front cover and whatever bolts I need for more stuff. I'm all over the place right now. Lol
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So, just to be clear, a standard front cover with the oil pump from TA or FTS should suffice? I plan to make the call tomorrow to order the front cover and whatever bolts I need for more stuff. I'm all over the place right now. Lol
Do you have an OEM front cover? (I have not read complete thread) I've heard from more than 1 source that the after-market covers are not as uniform as the originals.
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Phil...I am not sure what to suggest to be honest. I think I might go with Full Throttle Speed because you might get better customer service. they sell a completely assembled cover that is supposedly machined and set up.....not cheap, but it is cheap compared to rebuilding an engine. Maybe you can find some comments online about it?
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I've been searching for reviews online about it. Their cover looks pretty good as it comes with the oil pump. I'll continue to dig. I'm going to go with a stock oil pan as well instead of the bigger one that RJC sells. I don't see a point of spending extra money on a bigger oil pan.
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Chinese Timing Cover post: https://www.turbobuick.com/threads/oil-pump-clearance.467301/#post-3902619
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That's a very helpful thread there. Thank you! Sounds like most leans towards TA
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I think the others sell TA parts as well. Might get better service as well.
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I ordered a couple of thin oil pump gaskets from TA. .006" & .008"
They arrived quickly.
I used the .006" gasket for a .0015"-.002" gear end clearance.
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That's good news. I'll give them a call today. Thanks again guys
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Here is what I did: https://www.turbobuick.com/threads/timing-chain-cover.471292/#post-3948918
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I'm not sure if I asked, but should I get the high volume one? Or the regular front cover?
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Never mind. Ta is so backed up. Im gonna go with the Full throttle fully assembled cover.
http://www.fullthrottlespeed.com/fully-ported-and-assembled-front-timing-cover-for-turbo-buick-v6-engines-3-8l-and-4-1l.html
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As the wait continues on a front cover.....
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gets frustrating!
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As the wait continues on a front cover.....
What happened to the original front cover?
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Nothing happened with it. I just wanted the motor assembled as much as possible before pulling the one out of my car. I still can drive my car right now. At this rate though, I may have to use my old one. I just wanted a new one since it would've had new oil pump n stuff.
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TA couldn't give me an ETA and Fullthrottle flat out lied. I'll call again today though because I'm growing impatient
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I see. Good plan. Might try locating an old OEM take off & use that one for a rebuild.
I ordered a few items from TA & they arrived quickly. They aren't very far away from me.
I ordered a few items from Full Throttle also. Took a LONG time before they arrived.
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I can at least say that I appreciate TA being honest with me.
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Honesty is always admired!
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Absolutely
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Phil, have you tried someone like Weber racing to see if they have one on the shelf?
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Nah, I never knew who else to check for besides those two companies
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Ok, so I cancelled my order at Full Throttle. Good news is that a member here locally had a new one in box so I'm no longer searching for a front cover. I just ordered the bolt kit and some extra gaskets. I'll keep you all posted on this progress. Thanks for tuning in
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We had to do some grinding on some of the cam lobes due to some of the adjacent lobes interfering with the lifters
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Not sure I have heard of that problem
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I should've taken photos. When the lifter is rolling on the cam, the adjacent lobe comes too close to the lifter, and in some cases, it hits. Bison did warn me of checking clearances though, so it was expected.
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it's just grinding down some of the sidewall of the lobes.
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And we're at the point of measuring for the pushrods. Just thought I'd add that to this thread since it's been so long since I've posted. I hope everything is going great with everyone on here! I'm nearing the finish line
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well hurry up and cross that finish line!
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I agree. This has been drug out due to the lead time on everything I've purchased.
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Ok, we degreed the cam and everything looks good!! Front cover and heads next! I'm getting excited gentlemen!!
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You should be! Getting close!
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I have a lot more but I will leave it here for now
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We have officially measured for the pushrods. Ordering those up and installing as soon as we get them. This process wouldn't have taken so long had I not waited forever for the heads.
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Also, any ideas on why my blower motor has constant voltage to it? I literally unplugged it because it wouldn't turn off...even when the car is off. I tested the voltage and it's on full blast all the time. I do have the digital climate control, and I installed that expensive heater blower resistor for the digital climate years ago. I just wanted to address this while the motor was out. Any ideas?
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Sounds pretty normal for the heads :(
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Call Bison and have him spec you a 9.5 NL convertor. The convertor you have won't couple worth a fuck on the big end and you'll be on here complaining it won't MPH. 62 MM TB from Steve Monroe is all you'll need. A GOOD SLIC like Grumpy runs is all you need. I used a FM cuz the SLIC I had heat soaked between races and I was guessing what ET it would run in the next race. If you're running E85 you'll need a 450 LPH pump or larger and a larger return line. Several of the vendors sell a separate plug and play return line. You'll need line lock for the track. I have a vid on a plug and play line lock setup where you don't have to cut the brake lines. Have the intake and stock headers port matched. When the transmission is out have it built for 9's like I did.
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Let me see here:
Tb I have
ported intake I have
new headers
SLIC I have
I'll address the tranny and converter once engine and fuel is sorted out. One thing at a time for sure, but you're spot on with the converter. Bison already told me that the converter I have wouldn't couple well. Lol. He's a smart guy, and apparently you are too!! I love your build
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Phil, I cut my teeth with Dusty Bradford on the other board and read every post he ever put up there. I asked him a ton of questions there as I did with Steve here. I learned early on who the best are. I also knew I had a limited IQ, so I kept things simple. I understood everything on the car and I knew Erics 5.7 chip in and out. I put myself through school as an auto tech and apprenticed as an automotive machinist. I'm the first to admit that forced induction was a huge learning curve for me. It was really weird. I woke up one morning and I knew how boost, fueling, temp/humidity and timing all intertwined. Kinda like a light went off in my head. It got really easy for me. I harkened low gear timing back to my SBC days. I'd lean over the hood while a buddy would footbrake my car/truck and move the distributor ahead until I heard it knock a tad then brought it back till it went away and lock it down. It then would take off like a scared rabbit. I did the same thing with the Buick and got the same result. I'd pour the low gear timing to it. Eric tends to err on the side of rich and what I noticed with low gear fueling on default is typically 02's can be in the 820-850 range. Drop the 02's to around 770-780 for low gear and watch what happens. If you watch my practice race vids you'll see me roll in last...spool for the length of time for the lights to drop and I'm gone. You'll also hear the engine hit full boost immediately. That's nothing more than low gear tuning. Low gear tuning is easy. All I was doing was watching what the low gear fueling was doing on the 1-2 shift point and the 2-3 shift point. All you have to do is bring up the gauge panel and use the arrow keys to bring the 1-2 and the 2-3 RPM gauge up to the shift point...and then look over at the 02 guage. You make your adjustment...i t's that easy. What I noticed on some PL files is the 1-2 and 2-3 shift point would have a leaner reading...so go with the leaner reading. I recommend 6.1 over 5.7 as you have to monitor temp/humidity on a minute by minute basis as you have to adjust it manually as 6.1 looks after WOT for you. Leaning out the low gear fueling and adding low gear timing will heat the turbo and get it to spool faster.
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Phil, break out Erics instructions and look all the way to the bottom. He explains aggressive mode and how to activate it. Most don't know about it.
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That's good stuff there!! I intend to stick with the chip from Eric. I will need a new one with the build that i have now. I'm running alky right now but I'm not running an alky chip. I don't really care for high timing as I feel there's not too much room for error with increasing timing. First gear I don't mind so much, but 2nd and 3rd I'd like it around 18* max. Lol. It's probably in my mind but I intend to keep the timing on the low side. Boost and fuel with mediocre timing I'll take.
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Leave Erics high gear timing on default. That 6262 comes on like a freight train at 23 PSI. I think Eric goes with 10.8 to 1 with his fueling for 6.1. Leave it there and put the boost to it in high gear...and again...leavin g the high gear timing on default.To activate aggressive mode just jump the low gear timing 1 degree. Again, read up on it. Eric also recommends leaving mid boost alone as it can't correct fast enough.
Erics 112 race chip default timing is 28-26. I ran 34/26 to 36/26 depending on what the track would hold.
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I will def do some more reading. The break in process of the head gaskets will suck ass though, because after putting 10 lbs of boost to the motor, it's suggesting that I retorque the heads down again. In bold letters it says that it's the most important step.
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Sounds like a good idea if you want to live a long time with that engine :D I assume you are using head studs and not bolts.
I have one thing to add about the alky discussion. If you run E85, it is really hard to make one detonate as long as you have large enuf injectors and big enuf pump. A bonus aspect is that E85 has a wide area on the AF band. It's not crucial like gasoline where if you need 10.6-1 and you run 10.8-1, it might detonate. E85 does not have a sharp tuning peak. Trying to say tuning for AF is not as sensitive with it.
Now, with regard to spraying methanol ala Julio's kit, it tends to be the same way. The more you spray, the less sensitive tuning gets and the engine will not detonate as easily. I used to help a guy with his Buick. One time he sent me a couple of files because his car was only running 10.8 in the 1/4 and it had been running 10.6. He had no sign of problems other than the O2's looked strange but his AF numbers from his wideband were about the same.
I asked him about his fuel pressure and he did not have the gauge set up. He took it out and put a gauge on the windshield. He was losing fuel pressure at the 1/8 pole so he was basically running on alky the last half of the way. He had turned the alky pump up because the car was going slower.
That made me a believer. I think it is a really a good idea to use Julio's pressure test kit to check your alcohol kit periodically to make sure it is putting out the proper pressure. Just be sure you don't let the steel braided fuel line lay on the positive battery terminal. You will see the blue flame running up the line about the time you realize the covering as turned red and removed the prints off the end of your fingers.
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That's where a trans brake is really nice, warm the car up to operating temp - and put the thing on the 2-step/Tbrake. Let it cool and then re-torque the head gaskets.
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I am using head studs yes. That is pretty good info about the E-85. Some part of me wants to run it, but I prefer the gas mileage from premium gas. Lol. The only thing about the Alky that scares me is the entry into the intake. I know it's been a topic beaten to death, but the thought of direct injected alky into each port would ease my worry just a bit. Bison stopped making his plates a while ago so I'm kind of screwed on that
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Phil, with regard to E85, it is great for a car that is raced heavily, but, it's a pain in the neck to properly take care of the fuel system and it does not like really cold weather in these old cars. The gas mileage is a killer for a driver, imo, and it is not always readily available in some areas. It's mostly an expensive fad particularly for a car that is driven frequently. That is my opinion and I am sure you will see a bunch of people that disagree.
With regard to spraying alky, I am sure you will find plenty of people that speak knowingly about dry manifolds are not designed for flowing wet mixes and that cylinders 5&6 already run lean so adding a fuel to the air just makes it worse.
Then you see people like Russ and Melinda Merritt spraying alky in three, four, or five different points along the intake tract and running quicker than anyone elses' car and not only that, but, they run quarter miles while most others are running 1/8 mile races because they don't want to hurt their engines. Now let's be honest, Russ is smarter than the average bear and Melinda is such a bear behind the wheel that other bears stay home in the woods.
Now, much to the chagrin of many other buick gurus, Russ runs a PowerPlate to make sure the "wet distribution" is even and has the egt and AF plots along with dyno runs to prove it. You note that none of the genius's ever tell him that it does not work. Of course, if you are old enuf to remember Dave Bamfort's Buick days when he was tearing them up spraying alky and running a PowerPlate as well. He also had egts and dyno plots to show why he was the quickest of his time. Now he bailed and spends his time preaching LS lore so he ain't in the Buick pack anymore.
What I just said is don't fear any of the bs about spraying alky. Just keep an eye on the pump pressure and send it to Julio every year or two for a pump overhaul when the seals get weak and the pressure drops.
Lotsa people badmouth the plate and/or alky, but most of them would give their left nut to have developed either product like RJK or Julio. When we hear this stuff we have to remember that a lot of vendors got their start bragging about their "tech" whether it be transmissions, magic intercoolers, or whatever and used the internet to spread their aura. These days, there are quite a few legitimate Buick wrenches out there and the magic has faded for most of us old guys. The quickest cars out there do not necessarily belong to the magic in a box guys, but to those that understand how race cars work.
Oops, I got off track but you should be used to that LOL Don't fear the alky! Keep the jug full and the pump pumping :)
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I agree with Steve. Send the pump in once a year for a rebuild to Julio. If you're in a State where it's warm and you drive it year round, then order another pump and you can swap it out once a year and the car won't be down. I installed a new kit from Julio in my car. I go to the track...hit the test button...and the engine doesn't bog down. Something went wrong in the pump. Brought the car home...removed the alky kit...went to race gas and never looked back. I have a vid on how to drain the tank faster then you can shotgun a beer so it wasn't an inconvenience for me. I have no experience with E85 so I can't help you with that. Having said that, I woulda gone to E85 if it was available here.
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Now I feel better about running the powerplate because I def have one on there. I appreciate all of the info here. I'm addressing the fuel system next which is why I mentioned that stuff. There's so much I want to do but Idk how much of it is necessary right now. I want to upgrade the fuel lines and go with a bigger pump, but I'm only running 42.5lb injectors right now so I don't see the point in the line upgrade yet. That's also a great idea with buying a second alky pump so I don't have any down time. Ugh!! So close, yet so much to do before she's ready. Lol
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Phil, don't scrimp on the fuel system. Deny these engines fuel, and it won't be a good experience owning your car. I went with the SS hangar from Racetronix, new 255 pump every spring, new fuel filter every spring, 80 lb injectors, hotwire kit, hotwire injector kit, and a V Plus Volt booster but I don't think you can use the latter with alky. And I recorded EVERY run on PL and went back to the trailer to look for anomalies. If there were any, then the car went in the trailer and it came home and I sorted it out. Defer to Steve how far you can go with 42.5's and alky in regards to ET. I went to 80's from 60's as I ran out of injector on the 6.7 at 105 run. Keep in mind alky is a fuel so you can use less injector with alky.
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Yeah it's not my intention to skimp on the fuel side of things, but just curious on the injector side of things. You're car is definitely getting it done. Changing out the fuel pump every year is quite something. Ideally for me, I'd change my fuel pump as often as needed. I have an in car fuel pressure gauge so now I can watch it at all times.
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Yeah what Steve said! The following is what I stole off my website and use.
*My Dual Staged Deadhead Methanol Injection Kit using VP fuels M1 methanol, 140psi inline fuel pump, full cone fogger nozzles M5(on at 4psi) and M10(on at 14psi). Hood mounted 2" 150psi pressure gauge for the Alky with stainless pressure sender
*RJC - Stock Plenum Power Plate - BEST MOD MONEY CAN BUY ! It equalizes the amount of air per cylinder and in turn also equalizes Air/Fuel and EGT ratios in each cylinder. Very Important !
Good to hear you already have a power plate installed !
If spraying alky into the upipe was a no-no then why does 99% of the Buick world do it. Because it works that's why.
Sure the Bison Alky plate works but I don't know enough about it to say that it works better than fogger nozzles on the uppipe. What I do know is a plate is a plate and that will raise the height of your plenum and throttle body and could ruin your under hood pad. I also think that his plate does not spray the alky out as a fog, it just squirts.
The key to spraying alky is to FOG it in and along with using a Power plate which ensures that the incoming Air and alky is distributed evenly per cylinder. I can't begin to tell you how the power plate is a God send. You feel the difference after installing the plate, and there's less knock for sure since all the cylinders are getting the same amount of air and Alky/fuel. I say fuel also because I still run a 7th injector and that was purchased at the time in 1998 or so to make sure the 5 & 6 cylinder were not leaning out. Yes, I am still running the stock but port matched turbo at 23psi and 22 degrees timing all the time every gear on the street.
With all that said I too thought of switching to E85 but have decided I don't need it. Heck I can always drain the tank from the fuel rail and put in some VP C-16 anytime and turn up the timing. No need to replace injectors, chip, fuel pumps or return lines or any of that stuff to accommodate the e85.
If you stick to gas only you don't need upgraded lines unless your building a monster that needs a huge pump.. I would think that 60-80lb injectors and a Walbro 340 pump using a volt booster is doable on a gas only car. I have been using a Walbro 307 shimmed and it is the same as a 340.
I'm gonna finally replace the stock turbo with a TA-49 that's being rebuilt as we speak and go to 60lb injectors. Yes they are overkill for a TA-49 and the sad part is that I will finally after 20 years or more might have to replace the Maxeffort chip with a TT 5.7 unless Eric will re-calibrate it for me of which I already sent him the ROM file.
Alky is your friend but only use VP Fuels M1 Methanol with it. No bullshit mixes. :rock:
What turbo do you run or are you gonna run Phil?
There's so little to see and so much time. Wait reverse that. Willie Wonka
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Lol! Thanks for the confirmation. I have a 6262 on there right now, which surprisingly spools pretty quick for my setup. I haven't even began to consider the suspension yet but that's just as important. Im working from the engine on back though, which next will be the tranny and then the rear end, etc. I have a lot of research to do but I'm pretty excited to be doing this after owning my car for 17 years.
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Changing the fuel pump is a two beer job. It's cheaper and easier than changing head gaskets.
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I had the 6262 on my car and it's the baddest street/strip turbo for these cars and is a legitimate bottom 10 second turbo. It comes alive at 23 PSI and pulls like a freight train. Vids on my channel are at 23 PSI with low/high 02's coming in at 780/780 and timing at 34/26 with an easy 1.68 launch bringing the RPM's up to 3,000 at launch. If memory serves I THINK the convertor was flashing to about 3500-3600 at launch. ET was always right around 7 flat at 100. I had to keep it to 7.2 on a race day as I had no safety equipment.
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What's your youtube channel? I don't think I'm subscribed. Your car sounds disgusting though! It makes sense that it's a 10 sec turbo after seeing the guy from the other board get his stocker to run 11.3. Lol
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Turbobuicks 101 on Youtube. It takes very little to get these cars to run hard. Sold the car, 2500 HD and the enclosed trailer 3 years ago.
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Thanks for the update. Damn, sold 3 years ago? I'll try and drive in your honor. Lol.
Also, the pushrods are installed on the motor. I'm almost ready gents
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Don't rush it...take your time like Jeremy is doing.
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No rush! Got it
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You're lucky. Guys on the other board are screaming cuz they can't get parts, especially cams as the blanks come from China.
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I couldn't get them either. It took 4 and a half months to get the aluminum heads. Luckily Bison had cams on hand.
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:rock: :rock: :rock:
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I made calls this morning on behalf of the guys on the other board with the part numbers to all the major speed shops in Ontario for roller cams. Nothing in any of the warehouses here.
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Could try LSM. They grind custom rollers for many cam companies. They sell direct also. The largest cam I have been around was a direct buy from them. 1.016 lift, BBF.
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Nothing being available really sucks. I'm hoping everything works out with mine as I would like to get to the tranny and suspension after the car fires up once. Lol
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Spoken like a true car guy!
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Installing the front cover today!
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:rock:
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9 pages of info here!! Nice. How have things been everyone? In the process of piecing together the intake now.
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Phil, it's good to see you :) I've been waiting on an update saying you were laying rubber and looking for a night job so you could afford new tires!
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I wish that were the case. Lol. I lost a little momentum but I'm full steam ahead now. I've been torn on whether I should install the headers before or after the motor install. I want to get everything done outside the car that I can but I don't know what the process is like installing a these motors. Any tips?
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Nope, I am not up to date on that. I would like to say it should be no problem, but I am not sure
Looking at it in my head shows it will go LOL
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Here you go Phil:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbe6u4UfjVA
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Steve that response was worth everything. LOL!!!!!!!!!!
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Ah, a Vid!!!! Thank you sir!
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Oh shucks!! The intake, fuel rails, throttlebody, etc. That just made my day :rock:
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They did not install the crossover pipe though. This is helpful
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Ok, so the engine is officially complete. After I get back from BG, I'll be going to pick it up. I have to start doing some digging now on what spark plugs to run, break-in engine oil, etc. Needless to say, I'm excited about this project, and if everything goes the way it should I'll be driving my car by month's end. :cheers:
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That is great news! I am happy for you :)
IF it has a roller cam, it does not really require break in oil. It won't hurt anything, but, there is not really any metal to metal surfaces that wear in together. Of course if this is a flat tappet cam, you definitely need something. I have used Joe Gibbs break in oil but there are others as well.
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Oh, that is great news then! It is a roller cam. I'll do some research to see what kind of oil guys are using for the rollers. Thanks Steve. I'm actually going to BG this year. Me and my cousin Charles. This will be a first, and maybe a last based on some whispers of this potentially being the last one.
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I hope you and Charles have a great time. I think any future events will be held at a different venue which other than tradition, is a good thing in my eyes.
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Thanks Steve!! I'll keep you posted on how everything goes!
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Hey guys! Just an update, I'll begin putting things together here as my motor is officially complete. I have to throw on the valve covers, headers, etc, but that's the stage I'm at. I'm looking to grab some studs to install for the headers as the the stock ones are still in the car(my car is completely drivable still. Lol). I have all the torque specs listed for everything going in, and I'm buying as many new parts as I can before I have to start ripping stuff off of my old motor. I went with the ported TB from Steve Monroe I believe as well as the ported intake.
Just to refresh this thread:
stock block bored 20 over with deck plate, new ta grooved cam bearings, new arp main studs, #2 and #3 billet main caps, and block has been line honed. Forged pistons, forged rods, new brass freeze plugs. Aluminum heads, 212/212 roller cam, 1.65 scorpion roller rockers, ported intake, ported tb, ATR 3" external WG, RJC's driver side motor mount, new stock passenger side motor mount, alky, 6262, 3k stall
Next to come before tuning: champion fuel rail, upgraded fuel lines, hellcat fuel pump, rebuild tranny with potentially a husek converter, springs and shocks all the way around, 80 lb injectors.
I still intend to upload photos to the build because I have quite a few. I'll keep you all posted and thank you all so much for the input.
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To add, there is a shop locally here in Illinois that a member of the buick club had his transmission rebuilt at, and my goal is to talk to them before doing something extreme....lik e driving to Ohio and having Lorenz and Janis build it. Wish me luck. Lol
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Looking good! Err sounding good. Make sure the fuel system can keep up!
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Close! :)
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The fuel system is my MAIN focus. I don't want to take this thing apart again, and that's why I went the route that I did with the build. I'm not sure if a dual nozzle will be necessary for deep 10's but I'll do some more research.
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And even if my car doesn't RUN deep 10's, i want it to make the power capable of doing that. I don't really intend to race it
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A single nozzle can take you into the tens. If you want to get to the lower tens, then a dual nozzle is probably better, but it makes the alky harder to tune because you want just enuf at any given point of the band because too much slows the car down.
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I'm giving Earl all of my business!! I'm purchasing all the bolts from him that I can on EBay. Lol
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Fresh machined block, and a new set of headers. Should I run gaskets?
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Personally, I would not. I would just put a thin coat of hi temp rtv on the header surface and bolt them down. I suspect the majority of people use gaskets these days. In the end, I guess it depends upon how "true" the flanges on the headers are and that is an unknown to me.
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That's good advice, and exactly what I'm doing. Thank you so much
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Trying to add some pics here....
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lets see how this one looks
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Those pics are ugly
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hmmmmm
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Idk
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I got the headers on and the spark plugs in. Next is the swap and taking stuff off my old motor that I'm reusing
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:icon_eyes:
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The throttle body isn't bolted yet because I have to take the rjc plate off of my motor. Lol
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Not compatible with your doghouse?
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What torque convertor did you go with?
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I'd be removing that heat shield from the PS firewall.
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The RJC plate is compatible of course, but my original motor is still in my car. I'm gonna drive my car to another buick member's house and begin the teardown there.
I haven't gotten a new stall yet. I intend to reach out to Husek though when I do.
Why remove the heat shield?
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Don't let anyone convince you that the PP is restrictive... .
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As stated on my website....The power plate is the best mod money can buy. :rock:
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The RJC plate is compatible of course, but my original motor is still in my car. I'm gonna drive my car to another buick member's house and begin the teardown there.
I haven't gotten a new stall yet. I intend to reach out to Husek though when I do.
Why remove the heat shield?
The RJC plate is compatible of course, but my original motor is still in my car. I'm gonna drive my car to another buick member's house and begin the teardown there.
I haven't gotten a new stall yet. I intend to reach out to Husek though when I do.
Why remove the heat shield?
You can't lock Huseks convertor...an d you'll be crying to me cuz the car won't MPH. Contact Dusty Bradford at PTC or Bison and have one of them spec you a 9.5 NL PTC race convertor. Install Jasons power plate...cuz I got better things to do to tell you how to change head gaskets. Heat shield is a pain in the ass when wrenching.
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Thanks for the replies! I have a PTC 3k L/u right now but Bison said I'd drive right through it with mid 10 second power. He gave me a full write up as to why but I won't type it out. He said he shelve the converter that most guys need but no one wants to pay the price to avoid the wait. LMAO!!!!!!!
Regarding the RJC PP, I think you guys are misunderstandi ng my post. I was saying that my powerplate is still installed on my original motor so there was no point in me bolting down the throttlebody and plenum onto the new motor until i get the powerplate off of my old motor to install. :atbeer:
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I think I would contact Dusty and ask his opinion. I prefer to go straight to the horse's mouth.
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Makes sense. Thanks Steve
First things first, getting the old engine out, and getting the new one in. I'll address the trans and converter as soon as I got spark, fuel, and compression. Lol
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Depends on what PTC converter you have. There is a big difference between a budget 10" and a billet 9.5" unit.
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Gotcha
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The engine is out of the car!!!! I can't believe I did that on my own(minus the actual physical strapping and motor pulling). I was very disappointed to find that all of my bellhousing bolts were loose in addition to my compressor bolts, and both motor mounts. One of the bolts in the oil pan was halfway backed out as well. Needless to say I'm on cloud nine regardless! Thanks for all of the assistance and I look forward to posting pics of it idling :rock:
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All of those loose bolts could have caused some false knock...but other than maybe an oil leak from the pan, take the positive view. It made it easier to get things apart! :icon_eyes:
Be sure to watch the torque levels on oil pans and such when you going back in...many an oil leak caused by cut oil pan gaskets and such from over tightening...
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That stuff was already done when the other engine was built, and all of the bolts were torqued to spec. I'm reusing my fuel rails for now until I upgrade my fuel lines and new rails. I ordered the ground stretcher kit as well as the kit moving the fusible links. I'm actually excited about getting the electrical cleaned up a bit. I'm also moving over my IAC, TPS, crank sensor, cam sensor, throttle body linkage, knock sensor, and my serpentine belt bc it seems to be in good shape.
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I got the motor mount bolts out of the original and put the new motor mounts on the new engine. I'm using a ported throttle body but I had move over the piece that the accelerator pedal linkage connects to as well as the IAC. I talked to TA Performance and the guy Mike is a nice guy. He informed me to add a clear coat to the balancer that I ordered from them because out of the box, they INDEED will rust as they are. I'm so close, yet so far away. I got my stock pulleys off and painted them. They look incredible. Tonight my intent is to move the fuel rail and injector wiring harness over. I did get the oil block off plate installed along with the motor mounts. This process seems never ending. Lol. I hope you all have a great weekend.
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One thing at a time and you will be ready before you know it!
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Now on to the cam sensor installation process. It looks pretty straightforwar d after reading and watching the youtube videos. My main focus with that is making sure I'm on the compression stroke. These new balancers are super nice because they come with the TDC marking as well as the 25* after TDC mark. I thought that was pretty neat. I ordered a new brass oil feed block. It's a bit more narrow and it should be easier to get in. I'm struggling to get the damn thing to face forward after being tightened all the way. Makes me wanna say to hell with the oil pressure sending unit. :rofl: Anyways, I'll keep you guys posted. I ordered another oil dipstick tube as well because mine broke off
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I really like the setup on Steve's site for the oil pressure sending unit. I have an aftermarket oil pressure gauge, but I haven't found that T-piece similar to that setup.
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IF the valve cover is off the engine, then when both valves on number one are closed and the timing mark is near the pointer, then you are on TDC. Or, if you put your finger over the number one spark plug hole and turn the engine over with the big bolt that holds the pulley on the crank with a socket, you will feel a good puff of air as it comes up on TDC... easy peasey as those Canucks like to say. :D
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With everything quiet, you can actually hear the air coming out as well. Pretty neat stuff and I'm learning so much.
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Probably a sneaky fart
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Good morning gents! Got the engine in the car, bellhousing bolts tightened, motor mount bolts tightened, crossover pipe on, and the starter on. I'll keep you guys posted!!
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So it will be running after lunch?
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:rock:
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Not necessarily after lunch, but Saturday is my goal. Bought new vacuum lines, and I may have to source some "T's" because I eliminated the.....EGR stuff? I think that's what that is. Lol. I need to grab a oil pressure gauge for the priming too. I'm hoping for no leaks of course. Today I wont be able to get to it, but tomorrow I'll get the TC bolts in and torqued down so I can put the inspection cover on. I appreciate the support in all of this
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Sounds good. Just eliminate the line going to the egr solenoid :)
If you removed the actual valve, be sure you seal the hole well...otherwi se it will miss like made if there is a leak there.
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There's a block off plate right there.
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Eric shuts the EGR off via his chip.
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That's what I read somewhere so that's good. I'll research all the vacuum routes because there's seems to be quite a bit. Power steering pump is on
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Got the engine primed tonight, and the cam sensor seated properly. The TC is bolted to the flywheel and the inspection cover is on. No leaks were found during the prime so I'm pretty excited about that. We're almost there gents!!
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YYYYYYYAAAAAAY YYYYYYYY :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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:cheers:
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Get back out there and fire that thing up!
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I'll get it fired up Sunday. Thats the goal. I'm in San Diego on vacation currently. :atbeer:
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I am sorry that life is so hard...try to make the best of it. Maybe next time Hawaii :cheers:
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Good morning gents. I am officially going through the "no start" tree. I'll keep you all posted. I'm taking a mental break as this is extremely exhausting and frustrating. Lol
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start with the simple rules to help short cut it
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Definitely. I can confirm that I have fuel pressure and spark. I believe the setting of the cam sensor could potentially be it, but I don't see how when I was getting a lit LED on the cam sensor tool. I'll figure this out and report back. The SES has a solid light as well. I did bolt the crank sensor up without knowing it had a specific window to set to, but I think I got lucky there since I do have spark on the #1 plug. I'll keep you guys posted. Thanks for all the kind words and assistance in this thread. We're almost there.
Things I can confirm:
New chip was installed with new injectors
tps is set is set to .42
fp at the rail shows 36lbs
#1 plug has fire
battery is new
installed a mini starter
the engine did at least stumble twice during the attempts of cranking
injectors are spraying because the #1 plug smelled like fuel although it was dry
IAC is connected
crank sensor is connected
MAF and translator are connected
Alternator is connected with new HD cable(caspers)
starter is connected, as well as all new fusible links re-routed to a positive terminal(Caspers kit)
New grounds are installed(caspers kit)
Oil pressure was rising as engine cranked
I'm no longer using the factory oil pressure sending unit
I'm no longer using the factory EGR setup
I did not measure the resistance across the plug wires and I have not gotten a chance to check compression. I went with an entire roller setup(I dont believe this to have any relevancy but I did want to share.)
I reused all of my sensors off of my old motor. I figured since they worked with the old motor that they should be able to run the new motor. If I think of anything else I'll be sure to add here.
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If you're not sure you got it set correctly, here you go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_j42XlZ6z0
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sounds like the cam sensor is not set correctly
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I believe the issue has been found. The cam sensor was more than likely set correctly, but we'll check and see tonight. Multiple cylinders lacked compression, and after pulling the valve covers, we found out why. The rockers needing adjusting after priming the engine. After adjustment, I got 148-150 on the cylinders that before had no compression whatsoever. Since I got the valve covers off, I will re-install the cam sensor 25* atdc on the compression stroke and go through the routine of setting it once more. I appreciate you guys for all of the insight and I hope to get this thing running tonight. I will keep you all posted
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they won't fire with very low, or no, compression :cheers:
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We got it!!!!!!!!!! It fired up after I readjusted the cam sensor and fixed the rockers. I'll see if I can get a video posted up on youtube today or tomorrow!!! :cheers:
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That is great news! You all did a good job! :cheers:
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Woohoo!!!
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Phil, what torque convertor did you finally go with?
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Sorry for the delay! I haven't swapped out my converter yet so I still have a PTC 3k L/U on there. :rock:
I have a question for you guys. During the rocker adjustment, I noticed that my passenger side valve cover is impossible to get off the car without lifting the passenger side of the engine up. The valve cover is sitting on that heat shield. I have two new motor mounts and the engine is definitely sitting a bit higher than it was. I can't imagine having to do this when I have to take the valve covers off again. Do you all think new tranny mounts will help straighten this out? I figure if the transmission mount is bad, that would lower the back of my engine and have the valve cover sitting on the heater box/heat shield. Maybe new transmission mounts will lift the back of my engine up and ever so slightly get that valve cover off of that heat shield. Is my thinking off? Please help! I don't want to have to pull that bolt off the frame to jack the engine up every time I do a valve cover job. Thanks again for everything!!!
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Remember what I told you about that heat shield. Roll the engine around...the rear rockers could be up. It might come off if they're down. I'm not sure if the transmission mount will help. You're gonna blow through that convertor.
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I'd be removing that heat shield from the PS firewall.
Modify message
I posted this a couple of pages back. It was reply 158.
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You sure in the hell did suggest that!!!!!!!!! Thanks a ton. Yeah, Bison told me that I'd blow through that converter, but until my transmission is rebuilt, there's no point in changing the converter. One step at a time!! Lol
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Is it just that one screw holding that shield in there?
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Is it just that one screw holding that shield in there?
I honestly can't remember. I tried to get one out with the engine in and it was a no go.
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yikes
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It is hard to take off when the engine is out...without resorting to butchery, it is impossible when in. I left mine in...I think it preserves the ac box and such. It's heat shielded for a reason.
If you used the right length bolts as prescribed by Champion, it ain't a lot of fun to pull the covers but it is not impossible as I guess you found out. Just have to figure out what it takes wrench wise.
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Phil, I had several sets of tall rocker covers on my engine before I finally removed the heat shield. I had to roll the engine over to get the rear rockers in the right position to get the rocker cover off. Pointing my heat gun at the AC box after driving the car for awhile tells me it doesn't do dick.
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My biggest issue is the fact that my valve cover is literally sitting on that heat shield. Vibrations, false kr, etc is likely. If I have to resort to butchery, then so be it. I need to get this valve cover back on the car so I can let it run without making a mess. I'll find a way to notch the spot that the valve cover is actually touching. I need less than an inch of clearance and I'll be good. This really sucks.
Goal tonight is to pull the bolt back out of the mount and raise the passenger side of the motor up again to gain enough clearance to put the valve cover back on. Once that's done, I'll cover everything up and notch out the area that the valve cover is sitting on. No clue how but when I get this done, I won't share how. This is ridiculous and I should have done my research before buying these valve covers.
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I've read aftermarket engine mounts will raise the engine a tad. I had a pair of HR engine mounts on my car and they were so hard with the engine running the vibration would almost rattle my fillings loose. Went back to an over the counter pair of stockers and used an RJC engine brace. Engine mounts can be changed with the engine in. I've done it.
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An air chisel might work...but you'd want something between the air con box and heat shield to not hurt the air box. Maybe a pack of cheap wood shims from the Home Depot etc. If you could cut it in half, it might come out.
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Or maybe drills holes through it top to bottom. Be careful not to push right through the firewall or aircon box tho. Cover everything with a sheet so metal debris doesn't get in the engine.
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These suggestions are greatly appreciated!! At the very least, I'll get the valve cover back on before I begin cuttin on things. My first thought was drilling holes and using a dremel with a diamond bit in between the holes I make. Time consuming but I think it might be safer. I'll find something to put in between the shield and heater box before I begin destruction. Lol. The amount of steps I have to take to get a simple 2 minute run time is ridiculous.
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Got it fired up yesterday. I'll check for leaks today!! The oil feed line had a slow leak so I'll tighten that down a bit. The drain had a slow leak as well so I'll tighten those screws down. It idled so smooth.
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That's good news. Sounds like all the work has paid off and you are getting really close! :cheers:
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Got it fired up yesterday. I'll check for leaks today!! The oil feed line had a slow leak so I'll tighten that down a bit. The drain had a slow leak as well so I'll tighten those screws down. It idled so smooth.
Phil, did you get the rotating assembly balanced?
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Everything was balanced as I went with a forged crank with internal balancing. So to answer your question, yes sir!!
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Hey gents, sorry for the absence as me and my family have been railroaded with multiple deaths of close family members. I've been avoiding my car because it's adding to the already stated blues that I've been experiencing.
I have a noise coming from my motor, and after the input from a few, we're leaning towards a lifter that didn't prime properly and now we're trying to quiet it down. We've been adjusting the rocker arms constantly and cannot get it/them to quiet down so I'm leaning towards pulling the intake and starting over from the beginning in regards to the lifters and pushrods. I primed the engine of course before initial start, but maybe I didn't prime it long enough? Idk. On initial startup, the car idled beautifully but I heard a very very slight tick from said lifter/lifters, but it wasn't unbearable. It actually sounded normal if I'm being honest as I listened to a few other buick roller motors with Johnson lifters(they all tick). During the third start, After I allowed the car to warm up that's when the very faint sound of a lifter became an obvious sound of a lifter. The car hadn't been driven or revved up at all and we're currently trying to definitively find the source for the noise. We have confirmed that it's top end so whatever the problem is shouldn't be catastrophic.
I do have a few things I want to try before pulling intake...
I hope all is well with everyone here. I'll keep you posted on my progress with the Buick.
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Phil, I am only guessing, but it sounds like the lifter is stuck internally and the only two things that will fix it is a) replace it, b) take it apart and clean the assembly lube out of it and see if it now functions properly. Some times lifter may have sat on the shelf a long time and the plungers get glued into the body.
Having said that, I suggest you pull the valve cover and do a visual inspection to see if the pushrod is not bent, is seated properly, and the pre-load is the same as the others. Try to see if the plunger is pushed down the same as all the others when the cylinder is on TDC.
Check the rocker as well.
I am not a roller lifter expert, or any other kind of expert even I sometimes play one on the 'Net so you may get a lot better advice from someone else :)
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Sorry to hear of your losses. My Buick has been sitting due to the same.
You might try adding a quart or two of Marvel Mystery oil (have heard good reports on Sea-Foam also) & bring engine up to operating temperature before committing to disassembly.
Good luck.
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it's not your daily driver...it can wait.
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I really appreciate the responses guys. I'm motivated more than ever to finish this car to honor my brother. I'll keep you all posted on the results. Thanks again
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Phil...wish I was closer. I'd wrench on your car for ya' for free dude. Don't know ya' personally, but judging by your posts on here, you'rd a good lad in my books. Take your time...we'll be here when you need help.
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I appreciate the sentiment!! I have a great support system here from the Buick community so I’m sure we’ll get it taken care of in no time. I look forward to sharing the end result with you all. :rock:
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:cheers: :atbeer: :cheers:
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Engine is coming back out.
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Well shit Phil - sorry to hear that!
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Another sorry to hear about that. Hope it is a minor problem!
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Rome wasn't built in a day. Shit happens to all of us. Pick away when you want. :cheers:
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Based on the bearing wear, it appears that one of the rods were not concentric on the bottom. I'll keep you guys posted. Thanks so much for the support. Since the engine is back out I'm going to address other issues. Specifically front suspension since it needs to be done anyway.
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Did the machine shop resize the rods before you put them back in?
The springs are usually easier to change with the engine in the car if you don't have a spring compressor--in my experience, anyway
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The engine is out and the #5 rod is being checked. The new bearings are ordered so I'm hoping to have some sort of info by week's end. Hope all you guys are well
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I hope you have some good news, too! glad to see you are still fighting the battle.
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Good morning gents!!!! I picked up my motor yesterday!! I'm glad we caught the problem early because nothing was harmed. Turns out that the bearing in #5 rod wasn't properly seated in the tang. That was the origin of the problem. The bearing has been replaced. No crank damage is evident. All the rods have been checked using Plastigauge and all of the bearings are at .0020"
I appreciate all of the assistance from you all with this, and I look forward to sending you a video of my second "first start" :icon_eyes:
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Wow, Phil! I think you should take a trip to the Casino and buy a PowerBall ticket!
That is great news! Sounds like the shop needs a new bearing installer. Glad they manned up and admitted the mistake. :cheers:
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Lol!!!! I think you may be right! :atbeer:
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Good morning guys. So, for a quick update: I'm getting my car moved to install this engine once again. I'll begin working on it on Sunday evening and hoping to be done before noon on Monday. I've bought a new set of valve cover gaskets, serpentine belt, and new plug wires to match the vacuum lines.
One of my main concerns on my mind right now is that before I removed the new engine the first time, my voltage was not where I needed it to be. Prior to the engine swap my voltage was ok. New engine go in( I will admit that the positive terminal on the battery did get shorted when I went to install the new heavy duty alternator cables) and when the car was running, all I got was 11.9-12.2 volts. The positive terminal on the battery is shit I will admit, but it was enough juice to start the car. I went and got a new alternator hoping it'd fix this voltage issue(plus I wanted a new shiny one anyway) after this incident, but the voltage was still low. Is there a fuse anywhere in particular that I should look at? The positive terminal on the battery won't allow me screw the battery lug all the way tight due to the short that occurred( i intend to get a new battery but I'm not interested in throwing money at parts if that's not the issue).
So let me make this simple. Lol.
Old engine, voltage was good. Old alternator, new battery.
New engine, I installed the heavy duty kit from Caspers, ground relocation kit, and the new fusible links kit from the starter. Accidentally ran the a cable from the positive battery terminal to a negative terminal on the alternator, battery terminal melts a little. New engine had to come out anyway due to bearing issue.
I'm going in for round two of the new engine installation with these said voltage issues on my mind.
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I would take that alternator and have it tested. Something is zapped. It or the battery.
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It has to be the battery then. The old alt was working fine before that mistake. The new alt has the same results as the old and the only thing that I haven't addressed is the battery. I'll borrow one for confirmation. Thank you Steve. I'll keep you posted and let you know what I find.
In other news, I got the bug and ripped out all of my interior, including the carpet. I'm either gonna have to buy a new floor pan or get mines welded. I'm gonna get some opinions on it from some local talent. :icon_eyes:
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Phil why don't ya try an use it for the summer like it is. It's pretty easy to get tired of a dead car. Do as I say not as I do. :cheers:
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Good morning Grumpy!! I'd be flintstones if I attempted to drive that car as it is. I didn't realize how bad it was. The floor pans are already delivered.
I got the engine in, bell housing bolts in, crossover pipe on, starter bolted up. My new TC bolts showed up today. I'm making some steady progress
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As long as ya keep working on it your fine. BUT if ya stop time fly's by quickly and many never get back to it. :cheers:
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That is extremely wise advice!
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It definitely is wise advice for sure, and that's exactly why I talk to you guys. The DP is installed, grounds are done, sensors are connected, TC bolted to FW, valve covers on, IC finally installed as well. I need to purchase some anti freeze and hose clamps. I'm almost there gentlemen. I have a good feeling this time around. I'll be in touch!!
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:cheers: :cheers:
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Finally got my valve cover bolts in, so now I can put oil in the car and prime it again. I'll get around to doing that tonight. Wish me luck!
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:cheers:
Good luck!
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It has to be the battery then. The old alt was working fine before that mistake. The new alt has the same results as the old and the only thing that I haven't addressed is the battery. I'll borrow one for confirmation. Thank you Steve. I'll keep you posted and let you know what I find.
In other news, I got the bug and ripped out all of my interior, including the carpet. I'm either gonna have to buy a new floor pan or get mines welded. I'm gonna get some opinions on it from some local talent. :icon_eyes:
Did you check that you have 12 volts coming from the exciter wire? If the volt light blows or you have a bad connection you will not get excitation to the alternator. Stupid me I was staring at my exciter wire thinking I should check it. I brought my alt in to be bench test, they rebuilt it (supposedly). I put it back on the car and no go. Checked the exciter wire and No Voltage! I had worked 10 shifts in a row and was really burnt out. I should have listen to the voice in my head that said, "Check the exciter wire!"
Anyway, Good Luck!
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Ok, so I will admit that I didn't even have to time to diagnose the voltage issue during said time of said problem because I was pulling my new motor back out due to a bearing issue. Lol!!!!! That trumped everything, so during installation of the fixed built motor, I remembered the voltage issue and decided to post about it. I'll have more info for you guys here shortly. Everything breaks as I fix something else with this damn thing. Like now my accelerator pedal is touching the floor, so I think I may have to order a new accelerator cable. I'm thinking that the same may hold true for the TV cable as well to the trans. We'll see.
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She LIVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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https://youtube.com/shorts/G1rTm141Rdc
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couldn't help but notice you have one of those badly bent restrictive up-pipes. Time to change it. :rock:
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Never knew they restrictive. Thanks for the input!
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That sounded pretty darned healthy! Love that dash! A lot of little things to go but that has to put a grin on your face! :cheers:
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Hey thanks Steve!! Me and my cousin Charles(you remember him right? Lol) built that dash from scratch. I documented everything with the build of the dash as well as the engine. Yeah I have a bunch of little things left to do, but this is definitely a great start. The car sounds incredible. Next things to address:
My gas pedal is just laying on the floor. I'm assuming the cable came undone somewhere and I need to find where/how it connects to the pedal.
The lever for the column shift is no longer sitting in that bracket affixed to the frame, so I can't change gears with the column shifter or the floor shifter currently.
The TV cable for my transmission moves way too much. Not sure why, so I'll check into that as well. Long road, but fast speeds. I'm dedicated to getting this done and driving this season. Thanks for all of the suggestions, input, help, and opinions. :atbeer:
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I think you should change the bushings in the arm that sticks out of the steering column under the hood. This is where the rod connects that goes under the car to the shift linkage. It makes sure the car goes into Reverse at the right time so the back up lights come on when they should. The bushings are usually worn out or missing for several years now! https://www.ebay.com/itm/284033672332
If I don't have my cars mixed up, there is just a ball on the end of the accelerator cable that slides into the slot on the end of the gas pedal. I don't remember right now if there is a plastic piece that you pop in to keep it from walking out, or not. I think I am thinking of old mopars with that piece.
Of course I remember Charles. He's a friend of mine on face book so I cannot forget him LOL
I don't know if anyone has come up with a tv cable that works or not. Gbody parts is where I would probably start if I cannot find one used or on ebay. Obviously, someone has found a way to make one work.
How bout this one? https://www.highwaystars.net/cable-transmission-throttle-valve-detent-replaces-gm-25532115/
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Of course you guys are FB friends! I don't know how I forgot that. Lol. Thank you so much for the info. I'm going to source every piece needed to get this car moving. I can't wait to get to the fun stuff. I'm gonna drive it down to Texas to your farm Steve! Lol
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You are welcome anytime :cheers: so come on down!
Wait til all this 108-114 deg weather stops!
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That's a good point. My car would burn up before it makes it. :rofl:
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I refuse to start a new topic! Lol. Hey guys, it's been forever since I've posted and I just wanted to catch you all up on what's going on. The car is in the air now due to the tranny fluid drain and gasket/filter change. Next, new tranny lines to a remote cooler with a fan and thermostat. I have everything to do it, and it should be done by week's end. The car idles amazingly smooth. I can't wait to get the exhaust buttoned up so I can hear it idle through the new stainless steel exhaust. I hope everyone is living the dream and staying healthy as possible. I'll do a better job at keeping you updated on this project.
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I e been waiting for ever to see it back on the road! It's gonna run like a beast!
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I have an oil leak on the rear driver's side valve cover that's driving me crazy. I'm running the good felpros everyone recommended but maybe I didnt torque the bolts properly? Idk. Anywho, my goal is to get the car driving under normal conditions before I get the tranny work done. I don't plan on running it hard anyway the first few oil changes so my rebuilt stock tranny will be ok for now. I have to put the hood back on as well. Once I find an ideal place to mount this remote cooler, I'll see about getting a video of the first drive. I have to so much to do it seems as the new exhaust I bought for it needs to get buttoned up. The list continues
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Make sure it's actually coming from the valve cover and not the back corner of the intake manifold
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I'll look it over again and verify :rock: