IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => A/C, Heating and Cooling => Topic started by: GavinHunyady on July 07 2015, 08:41:57 AM
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So my original '86 condenser had sprung a leak, A/C quit working about 12years ago. I found the tell-tale stain on the A/C condenser followed by an oily film all over the lower core support. So I'm making the educated guess that was the culprit of the A/C failure. While the system has been "closed" this whole time, it has had a leak, and when I replaced the condenser the o-rings looked really good. Is it safe to just fill it with some R-12 replacement and give it a whirl, or is it a better idea to replace the drier(?) as well?
I'm looking for cheap and easy without stepping over a dollar to save a nickel. Looks like the drier is only $18, and the refridgerant is more than that... so maybe I answered my own question, but I'd still like to check that I'm not overlooking anything.
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For 18 bucks I'd replace the drier...and I'd replace the orings...but that's just me. It's the small things that'll come back and bite you in the ass.
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Don't forget the orifice tube when replacing the dryer.
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whats the deal on the orifice tube?
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Others may know more about it than I do. I have seen them clogged up on vehicles that have had compressor problems and with folks who have put in freon with sealant. They're an inexpensive peace of mind thing for me. If you're going to have the dryer off, might as well reach in there with some needle nose and pull out the orifice tube
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oh I didnt realize it was that simple... yeah that makes sense.
Delco 15-5151?
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Try this one if you're going Delco: ACDelco 15-5754
http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-15-5754-Professional-Conditioning-Orifice/dp/B000C9C8EK/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1436292984&vehicle=1987-45-392-383--7-8-7-1229-364-1-2---3-0&sr=1-1&ymm=1987%3Abuick%3Aregal (http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-15-5754-Professional-Conditioning-Orifice/dp/B000C9C8EK/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1436292984&vehicle=1987-45-392-383--7-8-7-1229-364-1-2---3-0&sr=1-1&ymm=1987%3Abuick%3Aregal)
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I think the 'hot ticket' is to use some sort of Ford orifice tube. CharlieF1 would be the guy to ask about that one.
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The stock GM orifice tube has 1 hole in it so the transfer from high pressure liquid to low pressure vapor is at a set speed. The R-134 reguires higher high pressures and a faster transfer of liquid to vapor to do the same job as R-12. The Ford unit has 2 holes in it so the change of state is faster. The red or blue ford tube will do a faster change of state and quicker drop of temps. The biggest issue with using R-134 is it's not as efficient as R-12 and using a stock condenser just compounds the issue. Mark did 1 post about using the propellant that's used in those air horns and has had better than expected results. You might want to look his post up to see what he did. Not exactly R-12 but better than R-134. :cool;
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Given the pain in the ass it is to deal with R12 I would just go 134/134A/anything elso, SOOOO much easier to get.
Any crap in the system will tend to lurk at the orifice "roadblock", another reason to swap ( so I'm told?)
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The stock GM orifice tube has 1 hole in it so the transfer from high pressure liquid to low pressure vapor is at a set speed. The R-134 reguires higher high pressures and a faster transfer of liquid to vapor to do the same job as R-12. The Ford unit has 2 holes in it so the change of state is faster. The red or blue ford tube will do a faster change of state and quicker drop of temps. The biggest issue with using R-134 is it's not as efficient as R-12 and using a stock condenser just compounds the issue. Mark did 1 post about using the propellant that's used in those air horns and has had better than expected results. You might want to look his post up to see what he did. Not exactly R-12 but better than R-134. :cool;
These guys think the red one is the "hot" ticket.
http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-103552.html (http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-103552.html)
Ill go searching unless someone has a part number to get.
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kurtc has some opinions.
KurtC07-11-2009, 12:07 PMEach color is a different orifice size.
Ford
Orifice Size
Blue .067"
Red .062"
Orange .057"
Green .052"
Brown .047"
The blue one will build less high side pressue, but it won't cool as well at idle. R134 will run a little higher pressures than R12, so maybe that's why they told you to get the blue. On the freeway, you might not notice much difference in vent temp, but the compressor will be working harder with the red one, but I don't know how that would affect it's life.
I've been using the VOV valve for a few years now, but up until a couple of weeks ago, my a/c system wasn't really charged properly. It was OK, but not great. See my BII thread in this forum. I flushed all the old oil out and replaced my drier and vacuumed for an hour. Filled with 12oz oil and a little over two cans of R134 and it's working really well now. At first I could only get down to 50 degree vent temp, but it turns out my heater door wasn't shutting 100% and was keeping it from working as well as it could. I cut off coolant flow to the heater core and now it's getting down to 40 degrees in 100+ outside temp!
I'd go ahead and spend just a little more on the variable valve. It's reliable and will give you better performance at idle and will be easier on the comrpessor when moving. It works a lot like an expansion valve, just better technology. Also, do not re-use the accumulator, buy a new one. Don't pull the plugs on it until the minute you will be hooking it to the lines.
http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-54530.html (http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-54530.html)
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I have always used the variable orifice tube with 134. I think a better condensor makes a big difference. More heat to dispense with requires a bigger condensor.
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I have always used the variable orifice tube with 134. I think a better condensor makes a big difference. More heat to dispense with requires a bigger condensor.
It's not the size, but surface area Steve. Our cars came with a large tube condenser and the new vehicles have a thin tube with many holes in it. That's why it works better. The bad thing is if the compressor craps out then you can't clean the condenser out. :013:
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Receiver drier is part of the cond core now anyways....
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I thought surface area was what denoted size?
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I thought surface area was what denoted size?
Each tube is a honey comb Steve. If you looked at a cross section you'd see what I mean. The tubes are joined next to each other so the actual surface area is increased.
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Is there anything to consider to evacuate the system or anything?
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used the Ford blue orifice tube with a 134 conversion on a tb once and it worked great
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Is there anything to consider to evacuate the system or anything?
The system will need to be sucked down for at least 1 hour. To check for leaks suck it down until it's holding 30" of vacuum, then close the gauges off, turn the pump off, and let it sit for 15 minutes to see if it holds. If it holds then turn the pump back on and open the gauges to continue sucking it down. 1 hour is the minimum but the longer the better. Once it's finished sucking then charge it up until it won't take any more refridgerant. Then start the car and continue charging until you get the low pressure to the 35-40 PSI level. Keep an eye on both gauges so you know what both are doing. High side will be much higher than the R-12 but it should never peg the gauge.
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uhh... I'm obviously not an HVAC tech, what tools are needed to do this?
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uhh... I'm obviously not an HVAC tech, what tools are needed to do this?
A/C gauges, suction pump, picks that will help with getting the o rings on and off, various wrenches for the fittings, ratchet and sockets in various sizes, a small set of forceps or long thin needle nose pliers (forceps work best), PAG oil, R- 134, and enough time to do the work.
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a/c gauges and suction pump was what I was looking for... is there a specific "suction pump"
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Is there a specific "suction pump"
Not really. The higher CFM rating will suck harder, just like one of my old girlfriends, but you can "borrow" one from auto zone and return it if you don't want to keep it. If you want one to keep, harbor freight has one that's reasonable.
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used the Ford blue orifice tube with a 134 conversion on a tb once and it worked great
http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/1978/ford/f150/climate_control/a-fs-c_orifice_tube.html (http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/1978/ford/f150/climate_control/a-fs-c_orifice_tube.html)
This one?
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I love the discussion over a $1.98 part. Great info - and I am not being sarcastic.
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That $2 part could be what makes it all happen. It is a variable something, and Steve mentioned he uses a variable orfice piece. The one delco part that I have researched is like $20 and it seems won't work as well went switching from r12.
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Actually that part is what makes it all happen. The orifice tube is the 'bottleneck' in the loop. Blowing through it causes a severe pressure drop with = 'coolth'.