Author Topic: oil question  (Read 473 times)

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Offline john robertson

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Re: oil question
« Reply #15 on: February 13 2020, 09:02:02 AM »
I use anything on sale in 20-50 or 15-40 & mine does the same thing altho I only put that kind of mileage during a whole season. The motor is about 10 years old now with a good half a dozen track days so when it comes out in spring I'm going to check the compression & add a bottle to see what happens. I'll try to remember I'll post the results next fall. Glad you posted this up.   :cheers:




Well, I'm thinking by about next week I'll have over 500 miles on my latest oil change which included the RESTORE additive, so I'll be performing another compression test very soon. Stay tuned! Here's hoping it does improve the numbers. Car's running great but oil is darkening as usual, but by next, only 500 miles till the next oil change.  :rock:  Maybe I'll even go to 600 miles. Who knows?
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Offline Scoobum

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Re: oil question
« Reply #16 on: February 13 2020, 09:09:59 AM »
Plugs colored normally...or are they black.
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Offline Steve Wood

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Re: oil question
« Reply #17 on: February 13 2020, 09:55:16 AM »
I believe that I read that if an oil is rated for 6000 miles, it should have used 50% of it's additive package at that time.  Some cars are rated for much higher mileage than that with specific oils being designated.

The types of additives used in a given oil have a lot to do with how soon and how dark the oils may turn. As I said earlier, only an oil analysis will determine if the oil is contaminated and with what.

An engine that was abused in it's past and which is full of sludge and other forms of "goo" will turn oil black almost instantly as the good oil detergents try to break it down.

An engine without a properly working pcv will turn the oil dark quickly.  I kinda doubt that most Buicks have properly working pcv's after we add breathers and such as they are sucking outside air thru the valves rather than crankcase air.  That leaves all the condensation vapor in the crankcase to be circulated and such vapors are very corrosive.  Again, only an oil analysis can tell what is going on once commonsense has been applied.

The famous 3000 mile change interval promoted by dealers, etc. is the easiest way to make money in a shop outside of the usual blatant robberies performed by shops.
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Offline earlbrown

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Re: oil question
« Reply #18 on: February 13 2020, 12:29:12 PM »
Quote from: "Steve Wood"

Quote
The famous 3000 mile change interval promoted by dealers, etc. is the easiest way to make money in a shop outside of the usual blatant robberies performed by shops.




 It's also a good thing if you're in the business of selling oil.  (or filters, since most people change filters on every oil change).

kinda interesting this thread popped back up.  I just came across the updated update video of a guy that used Restore in a Ford tractor.

I watched the one a long time ago where he posted the 5hr difference that raised/stabilized compression and cured the cold start problems.   
 He made a 100hr update and posted what happened in the last 95 hours.

 The data was pretty interesting.  The best cylinder to start with stayed the best and the crappy cylinders improved the most to even out the number.    On the second test, the crappy cylinders kept getting better and surpassed the 'good' one.
  And now the 'good' one is tied for last place.  And the shittiest cylinder ran right up to 2nd place.
  Granted, were only talking about a couple percentage points, but still pretty interesting.

https://youtu.be/VXIu3oo8z4c?t=303
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Offline john robertson

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Re: oil question
« Reply #19 on: February 13 2020, 12:56:56 PM »
Plugs colored normally...or are they black.






tan
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Offline john robertson

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Re: oil question
« Reply #20 on: February 13 2020, 01:13:26 PM »
Don't forget -- I have three turbo cars but only one has the dark oil "problem". All three have alcohol injection. One engine is stock with w/50s a TE44 and over 100K miles. No oil darkening "problem". Another has 35K original miles, is stock with 42s, and a TA49 and has -- no darkening. The engine with the "problem" has about 10K to 15K on it, has 80 lb. injectors, is .030 over with ported Champions and a JB 6262. So much fun!  :icon_lol: 
86 EL CAMINO w/ GN drivetrain - NICE!  86 T-TYPE - NICER!  87 GN -- NICEST!

Offline wmsonta

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Re: oil question
« Reply #21 on: February 13 2020, 03:59:32 PM »
Does the oil in the one car smell burned?

Offline Just a Six?

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Re: oil question
« Reply #22 on: February 13 2020, 07:43:23 PM »
Steve you mentioned PCV & I clean mine now & then & it seems fine but I have a feeling it doesn't always work properly. Now & then when sitting at idle in the parking lot I'll rev it up a bit & get some smoke that I always thought smelled very rich & a sorta blue if I had to choose a colour to describe it. I'm going to take a real look at it this spring & see what's up on PL & SM. Hopefully I can make it do it while recording.
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Offline Steve Wood

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Re: oil question
« Reply #23 on: February 13 2020, 08:49:38 PM »
Valve guides or seals, or from the turbo would be my first two guesses
Steve Wood

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Offline earlbrown

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Re: oil question
« Reply #24 on: February 14 2020, 01:55:56 AM »
Quote from: john robertson
 One engine is stock with w/50s a TE44 and over 100K miles. No oil darkening "problem". Another has 35K original miles, is stock with 42s, and a TA49 and has -- no darkening. The engine with the "problem" has about 10K to 15K on it, has 80 lb. injectors, is .030 over

So the only one that gets carbon in the oil is the one that's been bored....

  What rings do you have and what was the grit of the stones on the final finish hone?..


   If the answer is ''moly and I don't know'', odd are you have cast iron rings now.  (and found your problem).
'87 GN - 4.2L SFI Turbocharged innercooled V6 - Chrome valve covers - supra pump - 14" K&N - 52mm throttlebody - rocker shaft supports -  1/2 intake spacer - TB coolant bypass - 3" ATR exhaust tip - Alum intake pipe - NOS timing cover - chip - relocated charcoal canister - CR42's - stock

Offline Just a Six?

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Re: oil question
« Reply #25 on: February 14 2020, 10:52:56 AM »

Quote from: Steve Wood
Valve guides or seals, or from the turbo would be my first two guesses


I was hoping you wouldn't say that but I haven't touched this motor except plugs in about 12+ years (fresh in 08 I think) & beat on it at the track enuf times that I'll now have to take a serious look at it. The car always smells Rich at Idle & after it runs a minute with me near the exhaust I have to take my clothes off & air them out because they smell pretty much like oil & gas & it's been going on at least 5 years now. Oh well that's why I own all the tools so I might as well use them.
David
87 LTD. Purchased May 88
Doeskin leather, coach lites without Landau Roof, moon roof, carpeted trunk & No Factory Hood Ornament!
The sticker on AC shows a V-8 Carb car. Special order by Mr. Nick Hall VP of GM Canada
Runs 11.50 on 21 lbs with my old style 67 Q Trim & Alchy

Offline Scoobum

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Re: oil question
« Reply #26 on: February 14 2020, 12:31:59 PM »
You haven't driven the car enuf to wear out the guides. With the car sitting for as long as it has without being run regularly, then dollars to donuts the valve seals have dried out. I'll bet the 02 sensor is fukd as well. If the 02's are moving slower than 1 per second on the SM, then the 02 is on its way out. Make sure the Translator settings are set for your chip, and I assume that chip you have was burned for your combo. Idle BLM's with the couple of engines I had ran anywhere from 115-122 and the exhaust never smelled rich.
109 235 Cubic Inch Stock Stroke Balanced Rotating Assembly
Stock Crank
TRW .030 Pistons
Stock Rods
Stock Timing Chain/Gears
212/212 Flat Tappet Cam
JB Racing Heads
Stock Rockers
5.7 TT Race Chip
Built 2004R
AC 16930
6262 JB

6.72 at 104.67-25 PSI

I see slow people

Offline Just a Six?

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Re: oil question
« Reply #27 on: February 14 2020, 02:21:38 PM »

Brad I'm going to start a thread when I eventually get started checking things & your suggestions will be appreciated to help get it running the way it did when it was fresh. I just know one thing for sure that if heads are involved the engine is coming out. Really it's about time I show the car some love again anyways.


John I'm glad you started this thread & I hope you get your oil issue straightened out. For your sake I hope it's not the rings like Earl mentioned but he's pretty good & figuring out what's going on so BOL!   :cheers:
David
87 LTD. Purchased May 88
Doeskin leather, coach lites without Landau Roof, moon roof, carpeted trunk & No Factory Hood Ornament!
The sticker on AC shows a V-8 Carb car. Special order by Mr. Nick Hall VP of GM Canada
Runs 11.50 on 21 lbs with my old style 67 Q Trim & Alchy

Offline john robertson

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Re: oil question
« Reply #28 on: February 14 2020, 03:02:34 PM »


So the only one that gets carbon in the oil is the one that's been bored....

  What rings do you have and what was the grit of the stones on the final finish hone?..


   If the answer is ''moly and I don't know'', odd are you have cast iron rings now.  (and found your problem).


I don't know the answer to either the type of rings or the honing, so you're saying that the rings are worn to the extent that they allow excessive carbon by? Well, for me, as long as the engine's not smoking and performing as well as it is, it's not a problem. Can't worry about that unless it happens. I'm going to do another compression test this week and see if the Restore increased compression and will be posting the results here. Thanks for the Restore suggestion and thanks for your diagnosis, and thanks to everyone who chimed in.  :icon_smile:
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Offline earlbrown

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Re: oil question
« Reply #29 on: February 15 2020, 03:34:36 AM »
Moly rings are actually ''moly faced'' rings.    Moly is 60% porous so they require a VERY smooth bore finish as the rings will hold plenty of oil.

   Having a ''normal'' bore finish...    Most commonly referred to as ''a good crosshatch'', is a recipe for disaster. 

 When you have a ring face that holds oil, AND a scratched up cylinder wall that holds oil, you end up being unable to keep the two areas separated.  The only time you want any kind of oil holding ability on the cylinder walls is with something like a chrome ring.   And we don't run those in street TRs.

   The other downside is paying extra for the moly rings, just to have the bores physically scrape off the moly facing during initial startup.     The extra friction during the break-in process doesn't do good things to the rings ability to spring against the wall during high vacuum operation either.


  Moral of the story:  If the ring seal is crap, so is the oil life.  Blowing carbon into the crankcase makes oil black.
'87 GN - 4.2L SFI Turbocharged innercooled V6 - Chrome valve covers - supra pump - 14" K&N - 52mm throttlebody - rocker shaft supports -  1/2 intake spacer - TB coolant bypass - 3" ATR exhaust tip - Alum intake pipe - NOS timing cover - chip - relocated charcoal canister - CR42's - stock