IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense

Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: Shimy87 on September 18 2020, 09:36:28 AM

Title: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on September 18 2020, 09:36:28 AM
Well shes home now so here we go. Going to get it all unpacked today and try to make a systematic list of things to get done. First goal is get through check list and get this motor started and get cam broke in. Son is pretty excited, hope that continues as I explained this wont be a "couple weekends" kind of job. I will try to keep updates and pictures coming to keep you guys entertained  :cheers:
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on September 18 2020, 10:03:29 AM
Well, he is starting off with a big grin, so I would call that very promising!
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on September 18 2020, 06:54:39 PM
What is this box with the lights on it?
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on September 18 2020, 07:05:28 PM
Damned if I know....smh
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: nocooler on September 18 2020, 07:11:02 PM
TPS -tech? Maybe a volt booster - follow the wires
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Scoobum on September 18 2020, 09:28:50 PM
Ask the owner.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on September 18 2020, 10:20:43 PM
I am the owner...haha, he told me it's a tps tech box from caspers.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on September 18 2020, 10:46:48 PM
Something to get rid of, then.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on September 20 2020, 03:17:50 PM
AC question can I just take the new compressor out of the box and bolt it into place so that I can install the alternator and the belt so I can focus on getting the motor started and broke in once that's accomplished then pull the compressor, put in the oil install the high pressure switch, attach lines and electrical and get it operational. Basically can the compressor just be a pulley or will it screw something up
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on September 20 2020, 03:55:33 PM
Just leave the clutch unplugged so it freewheels.  All will be good
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on September 20 2020, 04:54:50 PM
Thanks!!
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on September 21 2020, 08:43:52 PM
First weekend progress, got it up on the lift, powerwashed the underside, got some sanding and degreasing done. Made shift cable bracket and got that connected/working. Painted rear wheel wells with truck bed liner. Paint should be here Wed. to get underside coated to stop any rust from starting. Got her back on the ground, removed hood for better lighting, figured out wiring, got compressor and alternator installed. Pulled intercooler to flush and then paint......hap py with progress so far.

Question, the evap canister is missing the solenoid that goes on top and the wires that connect to it. It has one hose that I think goes to tank, didn't track it back. Hose that goes to solenoid isn't there either. Because wiring is gone can I just plumb hoses like the are in my other car. Just eliminating solenoid?
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on September 21 2020, 09:29:25 PM
I guess the good news is that on our cars, it does not turn on a check engine light when not working.  You can google as well as I can, but, the basic job of the cannister is to suck fumes out of the tank and burn them up in the engine rather than letting them go into the air.

I have seen many where the cannister was discarded and a small KN type filter stuck in the end of the hose coming from the tank...seems to diminish the fume smell a bit.  Makes me a bit nervous because I would hate for those fumes to become a fire some time.

Another problem that arises is that either someone plugs the line going back to the tank or it gets stopped up from water/rust/trash some how.  Our tanks are sealed system and sometimes on a hot day, if that line is blocked, the tanks have been known to collapse.

If the line is plugged that goes back to the engine hose set up, then, the car can be run-if it's not closed off, then you have a big vacuum leak to the engine.

I don't know what happens if you connect it up without the solenoid in place...probab ly a vacuum leak at the wrong times?

Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on September 22 2020, 02:44:57 PM
new problem, the transmission throttle cable is to short, Highway stars is the only place I can find that sells one long enough( 43 inches) and they are out with no restock date. Anyone know if anyone else sells them??
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: nocooler on September 22 2020, 02:55:27 PM
A quick google comes up with this: https://www.opgi.com/drivetrain/transmissions/transmission-accessories9/tv-cable-for-th2004r-art-carr-ch23588.html
Don't know if it helps - doesn't say the length
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on September 22 2020, 03:07:45 PM
says it needs a non-lock up converter?????
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on September 22 2020, 04:20:11 PM
I saw that to...how is that relevant?

Also the "warning" below.....only California  :icon_eyes: :icon_eyes:

WARNING: This product can expose you to chemicals including lead, sulfur, nickel, chromium, vanadium, titanium, polyvinyl chloride, and 4,4í-methylenebis (2-chloroaniline), which are known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm. For more information go to www.P65Warning s.ca.gov.
you
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on September 22 2020, 04:33:15 PM
Might call Hwy Stars and ask if they know when they will get another batch
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on September 23 2020, 04:34:33 PM
Highway Stars doesn't know if they're going to get any more, opgi has a length of 37 in which is too short....as far as I can't tell no one has the correct length for a turbo buick. I might have to figure out how to make one of these "universal" length ones work.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on September 23 2020, 04:44:47 PM
Maybe call a couple of the builders and ask what they are using?
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: nocooler on September 23 2020, 08:13:12 PM
universal ones require a pressure gauge to set.

Like Steve said - call a couple 2004r builders. Vince Janis out of akron ohio always treated me right.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on September 23 2020, 08:21:14 PM
Thanks guys!!
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on September 25 2020, 08:01:08 PM
cleaning up underside, before and after
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on September 25 2020, 08:03:55 PM
also got the brakes cleaned up and bled system...brake s done!!
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: nocooler on September 25 2020, 09:06:50 PM
Wow itís cleaning up really nice!
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on September 25 2020, 11:30:14 PM
No Kidding!!  that looks great!  You and your son need to come spend some time with me!
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on September 26 2020, 03:00:24 PM
Going to focus on getting it started now. It appears that the IAC has a aftermarket spacer the turns it from pointing straight ahead to a 45 angle over the cam sensor? What's the advantage, as it is in the way for setting the cam sensor?
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: nocooler on September 26 2020, 03:08:34 PM
The Iac angle boss adapter was so you have more room to run a bigger inlet tube.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on September 26 2020, 03:17:30 PM
Thank you!!
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on September 27 2020, 02:31:36 PM
Trying to sort out the wiring, not my strong suit. So much stuff has been hacked into over the years. Mark has the engine bay really sorted out but under the dash has me overwhelmed. What is the attached picture? Can't find anything that looks like it should plug into it under here
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: nocooler on September 27 2020, 03:41:24 PM
My thoughts would be twilight sentinel but the box looks a little different. Did you download the service manual and see if itís in any of the under dash schematics?
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on September 27 2020, 04:00:43 PM
Where can I get that download, would be a life saver
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: nocooler on September 27 2020, 05:27:56 PM
http://www.ihadav8.com/forum/index.php?topic=6406.0 (http://www.ihadav8.com/forum/index.php?topic=6406.0)
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on September 28 2020, 12:12:09 PM
I think the black box I was asking about is the cruise control module, I found a connector tucked way up in there that plugs into it....if it helps anyone else :)
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on September 28 2020, 06:40:29 PM
New question, in front of the driver's side valve cover, bundle of wires. There are 2 white ones that Mark tied into and ran one into cabin for a gauge I assume....what would those white wires feed a signal for?
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on September 28 2020, 08:35:06 PM
tach on the dash.  They will also feed an aftermarket tach.

There is another single wire that is the fuel pump test wire.  Put power to it and the fuel pump will run full time
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on September 28 2020, 09:26:21 PM
Thanks! Must be for a tach, he has the 2 whites connected into one going into cabin. Picked up a battery today and plan on starting to test as much stuff as I can before the dreaded first start. Also, wanting to avoid as many potential problems as I can I'm going to swap known good parts out of my car for first start, like computer, maf, coil pack.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on September 28 2020, 10:06:28 PM
the white wires are actually one wire with a connector on it to be able to plug into a test tach...sure looks like two wires the way it is connected.

Think that is a good idea to use the good stuff to eliminate that problem.  Be sure the crank sensor is clearanced right.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on September 29 2020, 07:41:56 PM
Endo scope came in so checked each cylinder, all look great!! Got motor turned to TDC on cylinder one and was going to set the cam sensor tonight but when I prime the motor would just have to reset it. Also that IAC 45 degree bracket puts that thing right in the way...pain in the ass! Probably eliminating that prick, dont use a large up pipe so no need to keep fighting it. 
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on September 29 2020, 08:36:12 PM
I have one on my GN.  I don't recall it being a problem but that does not mean anything these days LOL

Did you find a substitute for the tv cable?
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on September 29 2020, 08:56:13 PM
Not yet, LONG way from actually driving it so I'm holding out hope that highway stars gets some in before I need one!

It's a combo of access problems above the cam sensor, there's a fuel pressure gauge on the end of the rail, that IAC issue, and all the wires running thru there are all in that plastic wire protector so it's a cluster
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on September 29 2020, 09:06:41 PM
for sure a cluster.  It's hard to see anything there with or without that angle adapter.  I have a four inch pipe on the Gn.  I have another adapter that has been laying in a drawer for many years that I never installed on the T.  I think about it now and then but you have convinced me to let it lay in the drawer
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Scoobum on September 29 2020, 10:58:43 PM
The fuel pressure gauge on the end of the rail is in the way on yours. Here's the angle adaptor on mine and the fuel connector on the end for the in car fuel pressure gauge...and I ran the 4 inch intake with zero clearance issues.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbe6u4UfjVA
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Scoobum on September 29 2020, 11:14:46 PM
You'll prolly have to remove the angle adaptor on yours to make it work.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 04 2020, 02:08:30 PM
New question, found this plug under the coil module, what should it plug into, can't find anything in this area not used
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on October 04 2020, 02:37:37 PM
Power master?
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Forzfed on October 04 2020, 02:38:59 PM
That is the 4 pin connector for the EGR controller.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 04 2020, 03:56:36 PM
Thanks guys, no egr so no worries!

Got the fuel system powered up, lots of dirt so pulled the rail and cleaned everything out, reassembled and no leaks so one step closer.

Got a temp and oil pressure gauge hooked up, and a tach in case the dash one doesn't work. Getting really close to first fire!!!
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Scoobum on October 04 2020, 05:51:22 PM
Eric disables the EGR via his chip...so piss on it. One less vacuum leak.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 05 2020, 02:51:58 PM
Scanmaster question, got it hooked up, when I turn key to run it displays scan 2.2, then PL  24.8 then goes dark. The one in my other car will cycle thru all outputs. Is it a bad scan master, bad computer or something else. Wired into ground, keyed power and to orange wire on the diagnostic port under radio area.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: nocooler on October 05 2020, 02:57:42 PM
Does the SES light up on the dash? Fuel pump prime? Check over your fuses
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 05 2020, 03:09:19 PM
Yes on both, all fuses are good
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Scoobum on October 05 2020, 05:15:25 PM
If it isn't hard wired then they'll do all kinds of dumbass shit.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 05 2020, 05:22:46 PM
Yeah, I do have it hard wired in....maybe the power logger is screwing it up??
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Scoobum on October 05 2020, 05:32:05 PM
I ran PL and SM separately.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 05 2020, 06:12:49 PM
Yeah that's why I ran the wiring the way I did so the power logger wouldn't be a Factor???
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Scoobum on October 05 2020, 06:34:29 PM
Contact Bob.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on October 05 2020, 07:19:26 PM
In a stand alone situation, I always connect it to the ecm end on the orange wire coming out of A8 on the ECM rather than the port under the dash.  I have seen problems reported at times from those that connected to the port end.

Also unplug the PL board and see if that does anything.

Does the PL work?  You may need to update the firmware on it also.

Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 06 2020, 07:32:17 PM
I believe to get data to the SM I need to connect the white wire to the remote board for the powerlogger and it will work....went to work on it tonight and discovered the gas tank has a pinhole under the strap. That sucks!! Mark put a brand new tank in and it never saw a mile and it has a hole. Looked on line and tanks range from $90 to $579....kind of a crazy price range! Kirban sells one for $349, I dont want to waste money but also dont want to cheap out and have a leaker in a few years.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Scoobum on October 06 2020, 07:44:24 PM
Pulled the tank on mine and used long string fiberglass when I got a hole in it...worked just fine. Parts up here are scarce...and I wasn't willing to have the car down and miss a race.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on October 06 2020, 08:45:19 PM
I fixed a pin hole with JB Weld 20 years ago and never leaked a drop since
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 07 2020, 05:05:28 PM
Well limited success.... managed to get it started has good oil pressure doesn't run the smoothest but it runs. The problem is fired it the first time was able to run it for about 5 minutes before the temps climbed to 194 so I shut it down got out to check things out had one transmission cooler line leak so I fix that drained the cruddy looking water out of the radiator and as best I could out of the block filled it all up again with clean water gave it another go ....sameissue started and ran again about 5 minutes before temps climb back to 194 shut it back down the problem is the fans are not coming on for the radiator. There's dual fans installed with wires running to relays and all over so I'm going to have to try to sort this out and see what's going on.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: daveismissing on October 07 2020, 06:17:08 PM
IIRC the 2.2 chip only talks to the PL. The 2.1 chip talks ALDL to the ECM
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 07 2020, 06:27:31 PM
Yes I forgot, got the SM working, hooked data wire to remote board for powerlogger and bingo, all the data came thru
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Scoobum on October 07 2020, 07:10:47 PM
Erics has his chip kick the fans on around 168.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Scoobum on October 07 2020, 07:13:45 PM
Fans I installed on my car were plug and play. I knew my limits.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 07 2020, 07:14:37 PM
I have to figure out the wiring, they are not coming on at all
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Scoobum on October 07 2020, 07:53:37 PM
Put 12 volts to them...see if they even work.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 07 2020, 07:59:30 PM
Yea, to finish breaking in the cam I'm going to try to wire the relay direct with a switch, start the car, then start the fans. Get cam broke in, then try to sort out the correct wiring
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Scoobum on October 07 2020, 08:02:09 PM
Wiring ain't my bag...get Steve in on it if you need help. He's Da Man!
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Scoobum on October 07 2020, 08:04:25 PM
How heavy are the valve springs? No...this has zero to do with break in.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 07 2020, 08:35:44 PM
The 100 pounders I think
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Scoobum on October 07 2020, 08:45:12 PM
Expect them to go soft after a few passes. Steve knows what I ran...but I won't say publicly as it would send these guys screaming off into the night.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 07 2020, 08:50:26 PM
Yea I bet, haha...going to stck with stockish boost with this one for a while so these should be fine :)
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 08 2020, 07:16:25 PM
Well, got a manual fan switch wired up, thru in a 160 degree thermostat.als o hooked up the vacume/boost gauge. Ready to give it another try in the morning.

Hooked up the vacume gauge to maybe detect if there is any vacume leak...what would a good reading be? Never had one before
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on October 08 2020, 08:01:13 PM
At idle, close to 19 in/hg.  Probably not much lower than that when running in park around 2200 rpm.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 08 2020, 08:07:21 PM
Thanks!!
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 09 2020, 02:27:41 PM
The Beast lives! Fired up and ran for a half hour good oil pressure,  with both fans on the temp never got above 188. Still doesn't run real smooth getting a malfunction code 34 it doesn't like the MAF from my car plan to start switching Parts back now like coil, computer, maf one at a time... also the power steering pump is shot and squealing but other than that no leaks anywhere and I'll count today as a huge success, step forward!!!!
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Scoobum on October 09 2020, 02:40:03 PM
Congrats!
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on October 09 2020, 03:05:07 PM
http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/code_34.htm

Note the comment at the bottom of the page about 1400 rpm

Damn, you work fast!  I faintly remember being young and fast!  LOL

That is great progress.  I would check for good, steady vacuum at idle.  Also, if the injectors have been sitting for a long time, then they may be gummed up.  A couple of cans of Chevron Techron may help that.  

Check for vacuum leaks around the bases of the injectors caused by dried up o-rings then check all the usual spots including the bottom of the egr where it bolts on the intake, around the vacuum block on top the plenum, back of the plenum, throttlebody, pcv, and so on...
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on October 09 2020, 03:34:53 PM
oh, yeah, don't forget to check the oil for water and the water for oil 
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 09 2020, 06:51:37 PM
Working to fast I guess, had the MAF backwards...du mb...flipped that around, restarted, runs much better but at idle it still wants to die after a couple min and still throws same code. Vacume gauge at idle is steady 19 so that's good. Maybe the intercooler has a leak so tomorrow going to start it and shoot some flammable brake cleaner around it and see if idle increases. Also crossover had a bad leak on drivers side so that's cleaned up and high temp siliconed and tightened back up. One step at a time I guess. Oil is all oil and water is still nice and clean so thumbs up there so far. I have a can of Sea Foam on hand so was going to throw that on the tank for injectors.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on October 09 2020, 07:22:30 PM
Seafoam is not very strong. Look for the Techron. Is your maf reading 4-6 at idle?
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 09 2020, 07:27:34 PM
I will have to check, I will grab some Techron. Thanks
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on October 09 2020, 08:10:54 PM
If the maf is 4-6, then check the O2 reading

Are you using a translator?
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 09 2020, 08:20:54 PM
Yes on the translator, it's a translator plus, mine was just the first one with 4 switches and 2 knobs. Set switches and base and wot knob just like mine, left other knobs on 0
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on October 09 2020, 08:46:53 PM
Don't hook up the timing wire with that one
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 09 2020, 10:38:57 PM
Can't find any instructions on line. If I confirm the white timing wire is not connected, and if it is disconnect it, would I have the switches and knobs set correctly?
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on October 09 2020, 10:50:38 PM
As I recall, the regular knobs were set just like the standard translator.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on October 09 2020, 10:58:38 PM
http://www.chicagolandbuick.org/pdf/MAF_Translator_and_Translator_Plus_Installation.pdf
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 10 2020, 11:00:53 AM
Thanks for the translator info, it's set correctly and the timing wires are not connected. If the maf is AF on the sm at idle it bounces between 6 an 9, O2 is in the 800's. Above idle sounds and runs smooth, if left alone it wants to idle way down then almost stall unless you give it some gas.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 10 2020, 11:21:27 AM
Ok, started it again, initially idles well, af  between 7-8, O2 about 525. Then when it gets a little heat and computer try's to settle into the low idle is stumbles and wants to die. Used my MAF and switched to the one that came with car ( reset translator for it) exactly the same behavior
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 10 2020, 11:22:03 AM
Also has the techron in the fuel
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: nocooler on October 10 2020, 11:48:52 AM
Did you reset the iac to get the counts right?
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 10 2020, 12:06:26 PM
How
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: nocooler on October 10 2020, 12:18:13 PM
http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/basics.htm#IAC%20(Idle%20Air%20Control)%20Adjustment
 (http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/basics.htm#IAC%20(Idle%20Air%20Control)%20Adjustment)

Steveís got you covered
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 10 2020, 01:50:59 PM
Thank you!! Well know I can get it to idle down a run pretty smooth but if I adjust the IAC anywhere above 2-3 it dies. Where it is now. With tps at .42 warm idle O2 is about 670 and af is 6-8.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: nocooler on October 10 2020, 02:12:30 PM
Are the BLMs close or are they off in left field?
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 10 2020, 02:21:35 PM
118 so not terrible
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on October 10 2020, 02:34:12 PM
the maf readings are a bit high, but for the moment, put them on the back burner.

The O2s are low for warmed up.  Check the fuel pressure and be sure it reads 43#, if it does, increase the pressure to #46 and see if that brings up the O2s, and pulls the blms up toward 128  a bit more.  Right now, the ecm is adding fuel trying to cover the leaness.

I bought an elky once that someone had put a turbo engine in.  It did not run right and he gave up.  First thing I noticed was that all the intake manifold bolts were loose.  Someone forgot to torque them.  Ran so much better.  :D

The IAC shows it is idling off the throttleblade rather than thru the IAC passage.  Wonder if the adapter housing is leaking, or if you removed it, it is leaking around the base of the unit?  I have also seen this with a leak somewhere before the throttlebody and also around the egr or base of the plenum.

what is the idle speed?  Sounds like it is idling too high?
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 10 2020, 03:30:30 PM
Thanks, turned up FP to 46 and now smooth idle, set IAC on 25, tps to .44 still BLM of 118. O2 warm idle around 700 to 715.  af at 6
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on October 10 2020, 03:39:10 PM
Still a bit lean as shown by the O2s and blm's.  Could be the fuel pressure gauge you are using, or not.

Be sure the steel vacuum lines don't have a hole rusted in them and make sure the pcv valve is working and there is no leak in its line.

Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 10 2020, 04:18:46 PM
Different gauge read lower so turn up to 46 on that gauge. Pcv is good. Discovered the vacume line to the map sensor was melted/ crushed closed and another little line to the heating system valve above pass valve cover was broken off at rubber elbow so off to the parts store
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on October 10 2020, 04:39:01 PM
My opinion of troubleshootin g cars is mostly grasping at loose straws and searching for needles in a hay stack.  With patience, I usually get there. :D
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: reality on October 10 2020, 05:13:12 PM
If you see BLM's ranging between 105 and 127, then the ecm is removing fuel to lean the A/F down to optimize the fuel curve.  If the BLM's are 129-150, then the ECM is adding fuel to  richen the A/F to optimize the curve

From Steve's site, so to bring the blm's up lower the fuel pressure.
 
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on October 10 2020, 05:41:22 PM
He's right, but let's not lower it until we can get the O2 up, and keep the maf down around 6
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: reality on October 10 2020, 09:03:42 PM
If you lower the fuel pressure wouldn't that create a leaner mixture and therefore the o2's would rise?
My 3 in maf always idled at 7. I didn't worry about it.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 14 2020, 04:56:56 PM
Well, with lots of help and lots of part swapping got it sorted out! turns out the translator was bad, and the powerlogger was bad also. 2 faulty electronic items make a guy want to lose it!!  its a bummer about the PL as they are awesome to have! Also after bleeding the brakes 3 times figured out the master cylinder was bad. Replacing that tonight and then she will make a maiden voyage around the driveway. Cant really drive it yet as in search of an elusive TV transmission cable. Progress!!! :)
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on October 14 2020, 06:11:07 PM
Bob will fix the PL for you, I think.  Tell him what you found and ask him if he will look at it for you👍
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Scoobum on October 14 2020, 07:48:05 PM
This is the first I've heard of a bad PL or Translator.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 14 2020, 09:15:49 PM
I'm just lucky I guess:)
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 23 2020, 04:27:20 PM
Trying to sort all my cooling fan problem. If I ground the temp sensor wire that is directly under the throttle body with the key on I thought that should make the fans come on but it does not?

The fans do work because I've been turn them on manually with a switch direct wired
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on October 23 2020, 07:03:15 PM
I'm not sure how those fans are wired.  Here is a write up I did on the factory wiring which might help sort the factory side out.  It is quite possible that a relay or relay is bad.  This might help you figure that out ??

http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/fan.htm
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 27 2020, 05:28:51 PM
Update time, got the fans figured out and the snow melted off the road so we took it out for the maiden voyage. It runs okay it holds first gear forever so I think I have to adjust that TV cable better, the alternator must not work because it only puts out 10 and 11 volts when it's running so I'm sure it's just getting that off the battery. Still has a terrible stumble when you Goose the throttle I think maybe I need new injectors and it certainly does not like boost. But other than that put about 5 miles on and I got us back home in one piece so I'll take that as a small victory and keep trying to work the bugs out
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Scoobum on October 27 2020, 05:59:17 PM
Check the voltage at the back of the alternator.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on October 27 2020, 09:00:33 PM
Does the volt light come on when you turn the key on?

Move the cable one click.

Check the fuel press to see if it is behaving properly.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 27 2020, 09:12:09 PM
Do I move it one click towards the firewall, as in if 4 ribs show, make 5 show?

Also going to pull injectors and try the you tube bench cleaning method with a spray can, some tubing, and clicking power to them till I get a nice spray
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on October 27 2020, 09:33:31 PM
Toward the firewall as I recall 
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 28 2020, 02:09:20 PM
well tried the at home injector cleaning, didnt go well. cycling power or ground would not open the injector??? Had to drop them off to be professionally  cleaned...$150 :(
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on October 28 2020, 02:24:40 PM
in my opinion, it is worth it even if it seems about 50 bucks too high
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: nocooler on October 28 2020, 03:00:24 PM
Clean injectors are always a good thing. $150 seems steep when you can get a cleaning setup for under $300 now (4 injector setup). I might have to order one, the damn thing would pay for itself quickly.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 28 2020, 03:16:46 PM
yes, I could have shopped around and shipped them somewhere for cheaper I'm sure, but there is a place right here in town, I will have them back in the morning. With the snow here now my test driving window is very short. Dont want to be driving in any salt after getting the underside all spiffed up :)

Side note, during our first test drive the boy was pretty nervous the cops would catch us, as we have not switched the title, no plates, no insurance and the car is pretty far from "legal" ....I told him we would just have to " run for it" if we spotted a cop. I think I'm a bad influence on him...hahaha
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Scoobum on October 28 2020, 03:38:26 PM
Put boost to it again with not enuf volts for the fuel pump and it'll be down needing head gaskets.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 28 2020, 06:47:14 PM
What's a good alt to pick up
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on October 28 2020, 07:41:23 PM
One for a 94-96 impala...no rebuilts
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 28 2020, 07:47:38 PM
Thanks guys
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 30 2020, 03:47:53 PM
150 bucks for new alt, I think I will take this one apart, clean up the internals and see if it will work. So much stuff was rusty maybe that's the problem???
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on October 30 2020, 09:04:56 PM
Maybe a bad diode or brushes. I assume your volt light is coming on with the key on?
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on October 31 2020, 11:09:20 AM
I thought it was but just checked and no its not??
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on October 31 2020, 07:47:33 PM
Then it's probably not the alternator
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on November 02 2020, 11:34:14 AM
read a ton of threads on the dreaded "no volt light" looks like i will be tearing the dash apart to get this straightened out. At this point I know I have a good 194 bulb in the socket so next stop is removing and cleaning the plug connection for the gauge cluster.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on November 02 2020, 03:50:50 PM
1. Fix the contact problem in the dash.

2. Or, run a wire from 12v that is hot, key on, thru a  bulb/socket from the Help section, into the brown wire to the alternator.  The bulb will light when the key is on and go off when the engine starts just like the dash should do.

3.  Or, run a wire from 12v thru a 1/4 watt, approximately 400 ohm resistor into the brown wire to the alternator.

4. Or buy the alternator fix from Caspers and hook it up to the brown wire plug to the alternator.

Do not run 12v straight to the alternator brown wire as it will shortly burn up the diodes in the alternator.  The Bulb, the Resistor, or the Alternator Fix will all keep this from happening and allow the alternator to charge normally.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on November 02 2020, 08:23:48 PM
Thanks!! Really going to try to fix dash but if I can't get it plan on using #2 solution....wi ll probably try to mount solution 2 in the original dash location if I have to go that route
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on November 02 2020, 09:33:12 PM
As the voltage reported by SM or PL is not all that accurate in my experience, I like to use a voltmeter which I tend to pay more attention to than the light-therefore, I don't spend too much time worrying about not having a light in the dash if it proves troublesome.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Chrisssssssss on November 03 2020, 07:05:44 AM
Reading your thread... I'm going through some similar things you are. Just to add from your first question is about that little box with the lights on it in the engine bay... my car has one too. What it does is gives your engine computer full 100% pedal reference voltage at like 80 or 90% pedal mainly used for if you were drag racing the car. So instead of the car fluctuating slightly at WOT the box sees anything over 80-90% (can't remember the exact % but something like that) and automatically gives the computer 100% solid so if your foot is making the pedal fluctuate slightly it won't make a difference becuase the computer will be seeing a WOT voltage at max and therefore making sure it doesn't back off any settings at all ecen slightly so you will get steady maximum performance throughout your run. I didn't know if you knew that or not... anyways good luck
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on November 03 2020, 08:43:32 AM
Quote from: Chrisssssssss
Reading your thread... I'm going through some similar things you are. Just to add from your first question is about that little box with the lights on it in the engine bay... my car has one too. What it does is gives your engine computer full 100% pedal reference voltage at like 80 or 90% pedal mainly used for if you were drag racing the car. So instead of the car fluctuating slightly at WOT the box sees anything over 80-90% (can't remember the exact % but something like that) and automatically gives the computer 100% solid so if your foot is making the pedal fluctuate slightly it won't make a difference becuase the computer will be seeing a WOT voltage at max and therefore making sure it doesn't back off any settings at all ecen slightly so you will get steady maximum performance throughout your run. I didn't know if you knew that or not... anyways good luck
Unfortunately,  the above is based upon what some people thought back in 1986 before the ecm/chip was dumped and they learned how it actually worked.

Wide open throttle fueling is controlled by LV8 rather than tps millivolts.  The TPS Fix/Enhancement box does zero for performance and turned out to be another gimmick based upon insufficient data at the time.

It does not matter at all with regard to wide open throttle whether the TPS voltage is 3.75 v or 4.8 v.  Once Performance Enhancement has been triggered by the programmed LV8 factor, the tps voltage is ignored and the programmer's fuel curve is used.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on November 03 2020, 02:01:43 PM
I eliminated that box :) 
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on November 03 2020, 05:15:10 PM
Well I got the gauge cluster out, the engineer that designed. that needs a kick in the nuts. Going to replace all the bulbs that are bad but here's my question / problem if I put negative to one side of the bulb holder and 12 volts to the other the bulb does not light up but I'm getting 12 volts to pass through, if I remove the bulb nothing passes through, what the hell's going on with that..... shouldnt a good bulb light up and a burned-out bulb not Let voltage pass-through I'm very confused here
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on November 03 2020, 07:16:29 PM
I agree with you on the engineer.

I don't know why the bulb is not lighting if you power one side and ground the other.  there have been rumors that some sockets had a resistor built in so the alternator would charge even if the bulb went out.  I have never seen one, myself-at least on a buick.

If the bulb is in the socket and is good-referring to both the bulb and the contact, you should be able to turn the key on, and put the meter between the brown wire in the plug under the hood and ground and read a voltage.  Also, if you ground the brown wire with the key on, the bulb should burn in that condition as well.

If it does, but the alternator is not charging, that would be an alternator problem.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on November 03 2020, 08:09:58 PM
I used the multimeter and just did a continuity test and only found one bad one. I attached a picture of my volt light socket and I believe it is the kind you describe with a resistor in the housing
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on November 03 2020, 08:11:16 PM
Going to reassemble at all tomorrow and I believe if that resistor is working even if the bulb doesn't come on with the key on engine off I should have 5 volts at the brown wire connected to the alternator
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on November 03 2020, 08:48:19 PM
here is the easiest way to tell if you have an alternator problem, or a volt light problem.

When it is back together, hook your meter to the battery, crank the engine.  If it does not show 14 v or so on the meter, then jump, momentarily, battery power to the brown wire...cut the insulation on the wire so you can apply power.  If the alternator is good, you will hear the load being applied to the engine and the meter will then show it to be charging.  If it does not charge, then you have an alternator problem.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on November 04 2020, 03:45:01 PM
 got it all back together, The volt light still will not come on but somehow it's putting 12 volts out that brown wire to the alternator. So I'm sure that's ruined my alternator. I tried the test of starting the car checking the volts and putting power to that brown wire and I got no increase in voltage so the alternator is s***. I still don't understand how the bulb does not light in the dash but 12-volt are still coming through all the way to the alternator. Going to get a new alternator and use the system of putting a 194 bulb in that line to the alternator to activate it.

On a different note put the cleaned injectors in and the car still has that terrible off idle stumble or when you blip the throttle it has that stumble. It's getting a steady 43 lb of fuel pressure but could it be caused by only getting 11 to 12 volts?
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: nocooler on November 04 2020, 03:51:59 PM
Low volts causes all sorts of weird issues
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Scoobum on November 04 2020, 04:04:02 PM
Jeremy is correct. Full voltage or all kinds of shit goes on.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on November 04 2020, 04:42:05 PM
Sure hope that's the issue!  Forgot to mention, radiator leaks also....gotta catch a break here soon
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on November 04 2020, 07:47:33 PM
Easy to swap alternators. Pull the one off your car. The voltage drop is very small.when I have measured it
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on November 04 2020, 07:54:33 PM
Do you mean the voltage drop on the brown wire? Also do you think the slightly low voltage could be causing the engine stumble?
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Scoobum on November 04 2020, 08:06:20 PM
Quote from: Shimy87
Do you mean the voltage drop on the brown wire? Also do you think the slightly low voltage could be causing the engine stumble?
Jeremy alluded to that in a previous post about the stumble.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on November 04 2020, 08:56:37 PM
I mean the brown wire should be close to normal battery voltage.  I kinda doubt the lack of charging is the problem but it might be. Are you sure the cam sensor is not 180 out?
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on November 04 2020, 10:47:04 PM
Triple checked the cam sensor before first start...... it idles nice and if you build rpms slowly, like normal driving, it's fine. But when you abruptly give it throttle, off idle, in stead of quickly revving up, it falls on its face for a second. Then revs up. If you bring revs up to close to 3000 then quickly apply throttle it reacts normally.

Plan on swapping my good alt on tomorrow and installing the in line light on brown wire. 
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on November 04 2020, 11:28:49 PM
Don't install the inline light at first. Try with the brown wire as normal and see if it charges
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Scoobum on November 05 2020, 07:16:07 AM
If it has a cat convertor...it may be melted/clogged causing off idle bog. Seen a couple like that. Gutted them...all was well.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on November 05 2020, 09:31:39 AM
No cat, single 3 inch exhaust, will eventually switch to dual 2.5
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on November 05 2020, 02:13:17 PM
Update, swapped in my good alt and bingo, 14.5 volts. It also cured the bog problem!!!! Still no dash volt light but have a digital gauge Mark put in the lowest left idiot light spot, really like that so will be doing the same on other car.

I checked in my car where everything seems to work correctly and only 5 volts go to that brown wire and for some reason this car pushes 12 volts on this one so I did put a 194 bulb in line cuz it didn't want to smoke this alternator. Key on, engine off it still does not light that bulb up but everything is working as it should so I'm going to leave well enough alone.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on November 05 2020, 02:22:16 PM
Strange on that not lighting.  Last car I did that to was a digital dash car.  I remember it working, but, who knows?  LOL, as long as it charges, all is good.  Glad that fixed the bog.  Wonder if the battery is weak?  I saw one running in the tens with a bum alternator, but it had a freshly charged battery. 

When things work and problems disappear, it leaves a great feeling!

Pretty sure I have always seen around 12v on the brown wire.  think about it.  Not enuf resistance in a bulb to drop voltage very much, but it saves the diodes some way.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on November 05 2020, 06:14:49 PM
Yes it's a great feeling! Hard to believe how much better it runs from 12.5 volts to 14.5 volts....like a different car!!

Brad and Nocooler made the call, I was very skeptical 2 volts could do that but that was it!!
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Scoobum on November 05 2020, 06:24:46 PM
Steve, if you haven't done so...clean the grounds. I did mine every spring. I also replaced the negative and positive battery cable. I never had any electrical issues. As wire gets older...it builds up resistance...a nd if the grounds aren't perfect...you'll run into all kinds of issues.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzyiD20zDeI

P.S. Steve's the electrical wizard. He might be able to connect the dots as to why low voltage could cause a stumble. I just know it can, cuz I ran into that with a couple of TR's. Not very scientific...s orry.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Scoobum on November 05 2020, 06:28:41 PM
Steve...does John Spina not sell a 'special' bulb for the alternator light. Think it was to keep the alternator charging?
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Scoobum on November 05 2020, 06:32:36 PM
You have to be beyond anal with these cars and incredibly patient. I always had the patience for my GN...but very little for humans.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: 1KWIKSIX on November 05 2020, 07:40:05 PM
Quote from: Scoobum
Steve...does John Spina not sell a 'special' bulb for the alternator light. Think it was to keep the alternator charging?
Pretty sure he is sold out of these long ago Brad. I was able to pick one up after posting a wanted ad for it on the forum.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on November 05 2020, 07:55:58 PM
Quote from: Scoobum
Steve...does John Spina not sell a 'special' bulb for the alternator light. Think it was to keep the alternator charging?
he had an alternator fix and may have had the socket with the resistor in it...Casper's seems to be moving away from buicks
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Scoobum on November 05 2020, 07:59:02 PM
I use to do group orders, and I think I ordered a few of them with some other stuff from John.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: 1KWIKSIX on November 06 2020, 06:36:11 AM
John Spina offers an upgraded flex board ribbon for your instrument housing which eliminates the need for the resistor bulb.
You can replace this on your own or just send in for the entire assembly to be rebuilt / upgraded

http://www.casperselectronics.com/cart/index.php?route=product/product&path=7_53_54_10_12&product_id=941
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on November 06 2020, 10:16:11 AM
Must have a college student editing for him.  Full Proof, In Opt....

But, that is actually not a bad product for these old cars!
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on November 07 2020, 03:17:52 PM
Took it out today for about 15 miles, other that the radiator leak it ran great, BLM's at 121, 14.5 volts, 170 degrees, shifted nice. Moving on to body work next. Put it away for the winter, probably chip away at small things but ready for a break. Thanks for all the help guys!!!
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Scoobum on November 07 2020, 04:04:34 PM
Good to see it's sorted out.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on November 07 2020, 06:03:02 PM
glad you beat winter!  they are more fun to work on when they are running!
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on November 12 2020, 09:51:53 AM
cleaned up the engine bay and got rid of the black on the engine
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on November 12 2020, 09:57:26 AM
That is hard for me to believe.  It did not come anywhere close to that when new!
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on November 12 2020, 10:00:08 AM
Thanks alot Steve! Dont know how to add pics that dont become distorted :(
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Steve Wood on November 12 2020, 10:06:06 AM
Adds to the mystique.  LOL

One of my windows programs distorts my pics when I resize them.

I downloaded an aftermarket program and it does not.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Scoobum on November 12 2020, 10:06:14 AM
That's disgustingly clean. You can resize pics in Win 10.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: SuperSix on November 13 2020, 12:50:42 PM
Damn I do good work. :D

That's a new radiator, sucks that it's leaking.

Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: SuperSix on November 13 2020, 12:55:01 PM
This is the radiator:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C7RZWC/
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: SuperSix on November 13 2020, 12:58:52 PM
And this is the small volt meter I integrated into the lower left indicator pod - Not my original idea, but fits perfect:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A722XGU

That one shows unavailable, but there's many others of the same dimensions on Amazon.
Title: Re: Bradys build
Post by: Shimy87 on November 14 2020, 11:08:05 PM
Love the volt gauge, I put one in my other car also!