IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense

Tech Area => General Auto Tech => Topic started by: daveismissing on January 18 2019, 02:57:32 PM

Title: K&N
Post by: daveismissing on January 18 2019, 02:57:32 PM
I'll just leave this here:https://nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html
https://nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html (https://nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html)
Title: Re: K&N
Post by: Steve Wood on January 18 2019, 06:40:29 PM
Nothing to do with Buicks, but I found this filter comparison interesting as well.  More for us old school guys

https://www.motortrendondemand.com/detail/air-filter-horsepower-shootout/0_f6zyfspf/ (https://www.motortrendondemand.com/detail/air-filter-horsepower-shootout/0_f6zyfspf/)
Title: Re: K&N
Post by: earlbrown on January 18 2019, 07:44:43 PM
Nothing to do with Buicks, but I found this filter comparison interesting as well.  More for us old school guys

https://www.motortrendondemand.com/detail/air-filter-horsepower-shootout/0_f6zyfspf/ (https://www.motortrendondemand.com/detail/air-filter-horsepower-shootout/0_f6zyfspf/)

Yep, good ole velocity stack for the win.


That's why I like the AEM filters over the K&N filters.  They have a radiused outlet where the K&N had a sharp outlet.   One has a small velocity stack for the MAF pipe, the other has an outlet that flows less than the actual outlet size.
On the upside, even with the K&N flowing like it's artifically smaller, odds are it doesn't hurt since most Buicks run a MAF that has a much smaller flow area than the MAF pipe.
Title: Re: K&N
Post by: earlbrown on January 18 2019, 08:00:43 PM
I'll just leave this here:https://nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html
https://nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html (https://nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html)

The mentioned a... “myth” that oiled media filters actually “work better” as they get dirtier.


I've never heard of that myth, ever. Has anyone else?


And I know a little bit about this. Back when I was a Yamaha service manager, all the ATV's used foam air filters.  From the factory (and out of the package as a replacement) the foam is dry.  I'd have to pour Yamaha Air Filter Oil on them, saturate the foam, then squish out the excess.   (and that stuff is GOOOOOEY, AND STICKKKKKKKY as hell).

The science was that the foam has much larger passages than a paper filter so they won't clog as fast, The pores weren't for physically blocking airborne debris, it was just channels with a lot of lateral surface area covered in sticky.   They way the air could flow though large passages and the dirt would physically stick to the walls.     The trick is to clean and re-oil the filter before it gets fully coated.

So that 'myth' runs contrary to obvious observation.

The other benefit to an oiled filter in that environment was water intrusion. In that case the water is repelled by the oil and the foam isn't compromised by water like a paper filter would be.

That was K&N's original selling point AFAIK. They had reusable cotton gauze with large pores that you oiled.  So, according to them, you got very little pressure drop, why still being able to filter like a restrictive unit due to the oil.   (and they get to sell re-oil kits).
What I always found funny was they used to really harp on that 1,000,000 mile warranty, but if you read the fine print, they said to replace the filter after something like 5 cleanings due to the micro fine hairs on the gauze going away.   (Which makes sense due to a large loss of lateral surface area).

I always thought about trying to warranty my 14" unit (giggidy) saying it dind't make it to a million miles because I coudn't get 200,000 mile intervals before I had to clean it. :D
Title: Re: K&N
Post by: earlbrown on January 18 2019, 11:08:08 PM
Interesting side note on that same technology.... .


  On house air filters we've all noticed you can get a 3 pack of those cheap green ones that get NASTY NASTY with dust over times  (dead skin and live mites :) ), and then there's the expensive 1 packs of the 3M high filtration pleated blah blah blahs.....

It's pretty common knowlege that the 3Ms are pretty restrictive and the pores are so small they tend to cause a pressure restriction and cause the HVAC system to work harder, cost more to run, and don't work as good.

Just for kicks years ago I changed my cheap filter and just happened to have some Yamaha Air Filter Oil in my living room, so I did what any one would do.   I sprayed oiled a happy face on my filter.


Time goes by, I pop open the grate, and the verdict is in!

I now keep a can of filter oil along side the filters. :)

Title: Re: K&N
Post by: Forzfed on January 19 2019, 01:53:39 PM
Stop making so much sense, Earl!  Stop it! :icon_lol:
Filters are suppose to get more efficient when dirt slowly plugs up the holes.  You want a filter that is a little dirty when breathing the air going through it.  That is why big Air handling Units have differential pressure gauges across them, so you know when it is time to put new filters in.
And when it comes to race cars, I see some people without filters.  They say they are rebuilding their engine at the end of the season and aren't worried about a little dirt.
Title: Re: K&N
Post by: Forzfed on January 19 2019, 03:11:38 PM
The problem with oil is it tends to find it's way into other things.  That is one of my biggest pet peeves at work is that we used an oil sprayed filter medium.  The problem there is now the oil finds it's way into heat exchangers and plugs them up.  And lines the vents with oil as well.  So we spend more time cleaning stuff. :013:

Be careful, Earl because the oil could be a fire hazard if enough accumulates on the heat exchanger.

 
Title: Re: K&N
Post by: earlbrown on January 19 2019, 04:56:58 PM
Stop making so much sense, Earl!  Stop it! :icon_lol:
Filters are suppose to get more efficient when dirt slowly plugs up the holes. 


They don't get more efficient, they get more ''filterey''.  :)     

That's why I tend to roll my eyes every time a 'best oil' thread turns into a 'best filter' thread.   For some reason people think you have to have a filter that is so small it can strip the additive package out of the oil.

The problem with oil is it tends to find it's way into other things.  That is one of my biggest pet peeves at work is that we used an oil sprayed filter medium.  The problem there is now the oil finds it's way into heat exchangers and plugs them up.  And lines the vents with oil as well.  So we spend more time cleaning stuff. :013:

Be careful, Earl because the oil could be a fire hazard if enough accumulates on the heat exchanger.

 


That's another ''cool'' thing about the K&N.   When people oil the shit out of them so ''it works better'', the extra oil ends up coating the heat element(s) on the MAF and causing the air flow reading to read low.   Bonus points it's a stock style film element laying horizontally.
Title: Re: K&N
Post by: Forzfed on January 20 2019, 12:02:37 PM
Scrap the very last line!  I just got off of nights with 3 of them being -40'C with the wind, so I was very busy.  I got my 12hrs of sleep in last night, one more and I will only be half brain dead. :)
Title: Re: K&N
Post by: Pyro6 on January 20 2019, 08:09:46 PM
I just can't resist: Dad and me servicing oil bath air filters....
Title: Re: K&N
Post by: Steve Wood on January 20 2019, 10:55:27 PM
I have cleaned them out and put new oil in them quite a few times...I also remember the toilet paper oil filters
Title: Re: K&N
Post by: earlbrown on January 21 2019, 02:43:29 AM
Those things are pimp as hell. Years ago when I first learned of them, I wanted to build a kit for my slant 6 Dodge Van.   It seemed fitting.