IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: TexasT on November 24 2021, 05:38:32 PM
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So, I'm putting together a little Limited and the frame is pretty much bare. The need for fuel and brake lines comes to the front. I'm looking at some e85 and see guys do a -8 line which from my rudimentary study is 1/2". I don't really want to do a braided PTFE line and came on this 1/2" Nicole/copper stuff. It calls itself fuel line and trans cooler line.
https://www.amazon.com/Copper-Nickel-Fuel-Transmission-Coil/dp/B01FOKISGI/ref=mp_s_a_1_8?crid=2444Q25EF0NVY&keywords=Copper%2FNickel+Alloy+Tubing+1%2F2%22&qid=1637698570&sprefix=copper%2Fnickel+alloy+tubing+1%2F2+%2Caps%2C181&sr=8-8
Any one see any reason I can't put some of this in where the stick line ran?
Next becomes a filter. I guess preferably one that fits where the sock unit was on the frame. Any suggestions there. I am thinking a swim through the motion race works site and getting a flex fuel sensor for the return line so I can do that kind of programming too.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Oh and the dw400 pump or do I need something larger. Just a street car. Maybe some 10s or high five in the eighth. Not sure, no cage for sure.
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that line has a very high working load rating. It should bend easily and flow more than a -8 flex line and last longer.
I have not done any research on the DW400 other than knowing they make good pumps. I suspect this one would meet your goals but I guess more discussion with guys running E85 would be more beneficial.
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Jason had a dw400 in his grey ghost but I think he had gone bigger. Maybe that 525 hell cat pump could work.
I just figured since I'm putting fuel line on anyway might as well be big. I saw some 1/2" aluminum line at speedway.com but it said not for fuel injection. And I've read that aluminum work hardens with vibration and cracks. Don't want that.
Also looking at the speedway Z28 valve springs. Apparently some at the big board have success with them and for $38 a set I'd like to give em a whirl.
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway-Racing-Valve-Springs-1-25-Inch-O-D-Set-16,88.html
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Should work well
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My local mechanic swears by that new fangled fuel line. I'm sure its reliable.
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high 5's in the 1/8th is way down in the 9s :chin: :cheers:
Happy turkey day guy's :rock:
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Maybe a six in the eighth then. I don't get out as much as I used to. Really , I just want it to run and drive. Baby steps. Then I can work on taking it to the track for some passes.
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https://www.maperformance.com/blogs/tech/walbro-450lph-fuel-pump-guide
(https://www.maperformance.com/blogs/tech/walbro-450lph-fuel-pump-guide)Put the 267 pump in it and send it - the 525 is only a 470 at the pressures you’ll run, and not worth the price premium.
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10.0 qtr is about 6.35 eighth. Turbo/NO cars are generally quicker on the big end. So there is that.
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I know what my IDC was in the 6's in the 1/8th with a 255 and 60's with race gas. With that data, I know what I'd be going with with E85.
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/373717482117?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20191002094254%26meid%3D509e035b0b444819998379bc67aa4bd9%26pid%3D100889%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D334043594843%26itm%3D373717482117%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2332490%26algv%3DDefaultOrganicWeb&_trksid=p2332490.c100889.m5204
These things are cheap(less expensive) makes me think it is a knock off.
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IMO there are better places to save money. It's a $100 pump, I'm sure someone will have them on sale for black friday.
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Yes, just thought a $25 was pretty funny. I guess someone must be buying them . Looking at that and a dw400. Looks like the dw400 would fit in the stock tank more easily. Gotta look at the hanger and see what might need modded. Maybe a bigger output line through the bulkhead. Not sure especially if I do the 1/2" line . I guess if it is a short section right at the pump it wouldn't be too much of a restriction.
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Seems to be a few "house branded' pumps , Eric sells some, doesn't he? Wonder how they know these are quality products?
Maybe the ebay stuff ain't bad but I'm too chicken to try, I'll pay more for a DW or real Walbro
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https://www.jegs.com/i/Earls/361/AT165108/10002/-1
I think these will get me in and out of a filter with the nicop 1/2" line
https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/15035/10002/-1
https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/15005/10002/-1
https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/150070/10002/-1
https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/150005/10002/-1
Thinking this last one should work mounted on the frame like the stocker is.
Looking at a mastercool flaring set up. Looks like I can get a 37* kit and add a 3/16" flare and angle pieces. This would get me doing 37* 1/2" double flares to hook into -8an. And also be able to do 3/16" brake line double flares. also looked at a lisle double flare kit for 3/16" and 1/4". Not really sure what to buy.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N9UVVSX/?coliid=I975MK2AWII3Y&colid=2DWFTVVF8QZSC&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
Master cool 37* kit
https://www.ebay.com/itm/400580106412?epid=1611826883&hash=item5d446f58ac:g:if4AAOSwGvhUF7 K3
3/16" anvil to do brake lines with the hydraulic unit in the kit above. It appears from my reading the dies are the same on the 45* and 37* so I can use the 3/16" dies from the kit above.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/192007042775
45* cone for the double brake flares
Or
I could do a mastercool 72475
https://www.amazon.com/MASTERCOOL-72475-PRC-Universal-Hydraulic-Flaring/dp/B01NCYKQSN/ref=pd_vtp_1/146-8189697-8312533?pd_rd_w=LP8Zh&pf_rd_p=96226b5f-2d9a-439b-be45-97603787c682&pf_rd_r=ECQZ9MRARE6V99AKEESF&pd_rd_r=daa1ba03-6ee0-48c6-a8cd-42f6a238443b&pd_rd_wg=T1v3T&pd_rd_i=B01NCYKQSN&psc=1
and
https://www.amazon.com/MASTERCOOL-71098-Hydraulic-Flaring-Adapter/dp/B002YKNXKS/ref=asc_df_B002YKNXKS/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312029767170&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2364156278547364433&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027201&hvtargid=pla-570159159999&psc=1
and be able to do much more in the future. For a little more invested right now.
Not real sure which way to go. I'm guessing the mastercool stuff is decent and seems to be well supported as I saw a rebuild kit for the hydraulic unit and the dies and anvils are available as replacements. Plus it comes in a handy blow mold case. Its only money I guess.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/114216883934?epid=23038100200&hash=item1a97db56de:g:OIMAAOSwc4BetX L3
was another option for the brake lines.
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You need a 10-micron filter for the injectors. Lots of LS swap guys run this style filter -
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00LKWZCFA/?coliid=I3OVH2YOT70D5N&colid=2JGHV2806UK58&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
It says it's only rated for 50psi but that is at the maxflow rate of 25GPM - which you won't be near.
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The drawback to something like that is its sheer size. I'd want to mount it where the filter hangs down and certainly it would hang below the frame rail. Cool for a track car, not so much for a street car. Maybe they offer a shorter filter that could screw on. Just going by the pony tank we used in the oil field that filter is the size of a pretty big oil filter like the one on my subrban. 51060 I think.
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Rich, have a gander at what Racetronix or Cruz is using for the E85 line kits.
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Good call. I'll peruse their offerings.
Cruz shows a filter but doesn't mention in the description
https://cruzperformance.com/products/cruz-performance-custom-turbo-buick-fuel-lines
This one while for a camaro does specify a 10 micron stainless steel filter as was noted about where I would need a 10 micron for the the Injectors.
Saw another kit with a frame filter similar to the golden rod setup so that golden Ron u it might be the hot ticket for budget and good filtration.
Lots to look at and decide on. I'm pretty sure I'm going with that 1/2" Nicop tube and will get a swaging tool to make the 37* double flare to hook it to an -8an filter or adapter to a filter. But it ain't bought yet. Kinda waiting to see what will go down with the jab for a job mandates. Struck down for now but who knows.
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Brandon will prolly try to get it to SCOTUS, so who knows. Would it not be easier just to buy a kit from Racetronix or Cruz.
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Rich, how about this one? Goin' fast ain't cheap. I know that more than anyone.
http://www.fullthrottlespeed.com/racetronix-teflon-line-kit-v2-coated-an-fittings-dual-pump-and-large-single-pumps-turbo-buick-v6-cars.html
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Racetronix here in Toronto has 3 different kits:
https://www.racetronix.biz/p/turbo-buick-teflon-fuel-line-kit-ss/flk-g7a1
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From the motion race works video on you tube the PTFE line doesn't last. I'm a one and done kinda guy. Even if it costs more. I bought the master cool flaring setup and the dies to do the 37* stuff(not cheap at about $500) so I can do the lines. I ended up coming across a set of ss brake lines on fb so I bought those. The guy was doing a frame off on his we4 but I guess decided against using them.
I think I'm going with this filter. Not cheap at almost $200 but I'm only buying one . Stainless filter media so I can clean it out. It is big so I hope I won't clog it up between cleanings.
https://deatschwerks.com/products/8-03-160-010k-8
Looking at the data they put out the dw thing works and pumps more at higher pressures. So I'm thinking the dw400 and see what happens.
https://deatschwerks.com/collections/fuel-pumps/products/9-401-1001
Gonna need an ecugn and ss relay so I can slow it down for the cruising and such.
https://www.turbotweaksupport.com/index.php?threads/fuel-pump-speed-control-pwm.3151/
My stuff takes a while. Keeps me out of trouble with big dreams.
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My impression is that the DW stuff is better than most stuff. Less propaganda and more quality
Sounds like you are off to a good start :)
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I'm running a dw200 in the og T and it seemed to work well. Not exactly plug n play but also not sitting on the side of the road with a bad pump either.
Work has been crazy. But upside, it makes fundage to keep the dreams going. Slowed a little at the end of last yr but with these ice events we are way behind.
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I put a 300 in my son's car several years ago. It has mostly been sitting the last two years but it still works.
I am happy to hear you have some back inventory to move. The ice really screws things up but I am glad you are not out in it.
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Fortunately I have vac time and have stacked up some cash so as to be able to tell them "no thanks" when the weather turns. Just not worth bending up my daily. I know you great white northers laugh at us with our little ice spells and such but I'm not going out in it. I'm pretty sure I can drive in it but we all saw my og T and that was good weather. So I just stay home and wait for it to melt.
Been studying up on the ecugn and some Holley stuff. Looking like the ecugn will do what I want. Holley probably would too but I'd rather support turbo tweak. This way I can log and do pressures and temps on stuff. Might even be able to score a used unit but I'm not holding my breath. Will just keep moving forward and see what turns up. Gotta get the block to the machine shop to get it checked out. Seller said it was good but who knows.
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Aftermarket ECU is useless. You won't go any faster with it and you'll fucking with it non stop. Any idea how many locals sat on the sidelines fucking with their ECU at the track while I was bringing home the hardware. Grab a 6.1...and with the money you save...you can buy a GOOD convertor that WILL make a difference. I'll let you in on a little secret...but don't tell anyone. There's no magic inside those ECU boxes.
I have zero issues with aftermarket ECU's for guys like Jeremy that know them inside and out. There's a young gun like Jeremy up here that knows them inside and out and has one in his car. I always want guys to have a positive experience with these cars, and then some fucktard know it all talks them into an ECU and they blow the fukn car up and sell it. There was one vendor that was notorious for hawking ECU's to guys that didn't know them and didn't need them.
I recommend 6.1 over 5.7 for racing as you have to monitor temp/humidity on a run to run basis or bad shit will happen with 5.7.
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Rich, I think for running E85, in particular, or spraying alky, etc., I would go with Eric's and Bob's set up if you are interested in learning how to tune with such. It will run out of the box and is already set up for our cars so you will avoid the usual "it won't start" woes that accompany the usual aftermarket set ups as it is truly plug and play.
I am always interested in learning new tech even if I may be old enuf to have to relearn it every day LOL. I have been thinking about installing one of the Megasquirt pnp set ups on my Miata just to have something to occupy my mind.
It's not all about racing. It's also about learning new stuff and pushing the frontiers.
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I want to be able to have a fuel sensor in the return line and be able to have the unit pull or add the timing and boost with the alcohol content. Then if I don't find the e85 or just don't want to it will not have a prob. Seems to be very doable from the things I've seen on YouTube. I'm not against a stock ECU. I have one in the og T with the TT chip. This is just a way to move into the next step. We have the hptuners and it is pretty nifty what can be done but that isn't near what these stand alone units are capable of. And these mega squirt and Holley units are somewhat crude compared to a haltech and others from what I've seen.
The ecugn opens up the ignition possibilities and can use truck and other coils.
Lots of failsafe that can be programmed in. Logging capability right out of the box. And as pointed out the basic tune already to go.
At this point I just need to get the hard parts together and get it running and driving. Weather is warming up so we will get on it.
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Agreed! And let's face it. Components in our factory ecms are not that far from being 40 years old.🤔
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If you're gonna be successful with these cars...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SLb05HMNKI