IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: Just a Six? on May 21 2017, 12:15:37 PM
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I Finally said Enuf Procrastinatin g & after 5+ years of running Rich (mostly at idle & cruise) I'm tired of my clothes smelling like exhaust if you stand anywhere near the tail pipes.
Currently using TT Alchy chip (think 5.7) for 26 lbs boost but waste gate rod is set at 21.
Old school 67 4" in 3" out. I also have an Extender Extreme for Alchy about same boost I used for a while one summer. So anyways I started reading up on the Gen 2 & went thru all the settings & they were right except one major issue.
User Tune AF
Low +63.5 all RPM range?
Med looked ok with most numbers around/under 5 for all RPM except a couple at 4000+ RPM were 63.5?
High looked ok for all RPM.
So I set All the Low RPM to 0 to get started, as well as the Med from 63.5 back to 0.
Start the car & drive 100 yards turn off car & ALL of Low & Med are back at 63.5?
It wasn't just that time as Some went back to 63.5 only starting & stopping the engine without driving but I wan't paying close attention since I never thought that would even happen? No where does it say I need to Lock In the settings as all others stay set so any idea what's going on?
Also Question about these settings.
Lo Load pt 32.5 KPA
Mid Load pt 100.1 KPA
Hi Load pt 143 KPA
Are these settings related to the MAF? I have no idea & they aren't explained or even mentioned with the Gen 2 instructions I have from Full Throttle? They are mentioned in the General Settings Pamphlet but no kind of instructions or even explanation? Thanks for any help you can offer.
I hope this comes out the right size Font as I deleted then moved a few words around & this site makes the letters so small they are impossible to read.
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One more question re Main Scale.
I Assume if I take out fuel across the board that each number represents 1% so -10 = -10%
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Dave...you have a reply in here. Read on...sounds like the other gent has the same problem. I'd contact Bob on the other board.
http://www.fullthrottletech.com/showthread.php?t=4089 (http://www.fullthrottletech.com/showthread.php?t=4089)
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Lo Load pt 32.5 KPA
Mid Load pt 100.1 KPA
Hi Load pt 143 KPA
These represent pressure thresholds and are referenced from the MAP sensor.
LO is 0 to XXkpa
MID is XXkpa to YYYkpa
HIGH is YYYkpa to ZZZkpa
So your LO load is idle to low speed/light cruise range. The thing is you need to log where your car idles - in many cases it is in the 55 to 75kpa range, take that number and add about 5-10kpa to it. Nothing runs decent at 35kpa. Next is your MID load this is from the high end of your LO to the bottom end of your HIGH load zone. Typically this is pre-boost, but even having it cross over a few PSI is not going harm anything; you will see everything from basic acceleration from a light to passing speeds in this range. Typically 65 to 120kpa. Finally there is the HIGH load point, this is for Power Enrichment and high boost. Again 100 kpa to infinity is normal.
One more question re Main Scale.
I Assume if I take out fuel across the board that each number represents 1% so -10 = -10%
Correct.
This thread might help confuse you a little more: http://fullthrottletech.com/showthread.php?t=6744 (http://fullthrottletech.com/showthread.php?t=6744)
I will always maintain that I do not agree with Bob's modeling of a Volumetric Efficiency table; and I am glad I got rid of my Buick because being married to the MAFT Pro was beyond painful.
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Thanks Brad amazing the link you found has me in it already! I'll try a reset & hopefully it works since it's just the one parameter group that's having issues?
Mike I'll have to study up on those numbers but interesting they are related to the MAP & by chance I'm having the weird MAP readings. Altho, at this point I wouldn't know if those numbers are good or bad?
Now looking at yours & mine the LO load at 32 looks low for sure but the MID load 100 & HI Load 143 are both in your parameters yes? Are the numbers preset or user set or learned from driving? Thanks!
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That post was made about 5 years ago, and what I have learned in that time goes far beyond the questions I originally asked. Truthfully, I have no clue what my last settings are given I sold the car a year ago and did a complete brain dump of Bob's stuff in the process.
But, yes if your MAP sensor is pooched, nothing is going to respond well.
That being said I tuned my VE table by capturing data based on the correction factor (CF%) from a WB02.
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Thanks Mike I'm going to do a reset & then make sure the MAP is good & see what I get.
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David, start over with a TT 6.1 chip and a wb. Leave it on the defaults and go have some fun!
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I was gonna go with 6.1 this year...but this fukn WB constantly needs to be recalibrated. Must be the race gas messin' with it.
Dan and I have had a few cars come into the shop with Gen 2 on them running like crap. I got Dan to remove the Gen 2 and order a 5.7 chip for them. Cars ran mint with the 5.7
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race gas plays havoc with the Bosch sensors...and it does affect the NGK's as well..just takes longer
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So without writing a novel here goes my update. I hope you can follow this explanation?
I did a reset & as a test I took out some fuel from 800-2000 rpm (max 5%) thru the LO rpm range & again from 2000-3200 in MID range. Just to see if the settings would stay good? I also did Main scale -5 & after start +5 & the car runs nice. BLM look decent & the wide band seems ok but I stayed in 1st & 2nd with idle to 3500 rpm range. Park the car & come back in 30 mins it just chugs & barely moves.
LO fuel reads -63.5 at 1600 rpm & +29.5 at 2800 rpm? All other rpm & numbers are fine? (+63 before?)
Do another reset & put everything at 0 except main scale -5 & after start +5 turn off power same crap?
Get an idea & third restart all set at 0 except main scale & after start BUT leave Gen 2 on the page showing LO at 1600 rpm so hopefully it stays on that page when it's turned off & back on. Turn it off & on 5-6 times & all settings stay good. I don't know if leaving it with those parameters showing is the fix as the car never sat any amount of time yet? I'm hoping that time won't be a factor being it's electronics but??
If this fixes it so it works otherwise then I'm ok with that but if not I guess it's a paper weight.
I really hope that this works! :icon_eyes:
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Brad are you saying the 5.7 chip doesn't need a translator? I haven't stayed up to date with all the stuff going on for us & honestly I'm fairly sure my chip is a 5.7 but I wouldn't bet on it?
I did look at TT & FT & saw the new Axis & a Translator but Gen 2 are gone. So many options!
Steve I ASSume the 6.1 doesn't need a Translator?
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It requires a maf. I have not kept up with options other than a translator
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5.7 and 6.1 require a MAF and a Translator. AXIS can be used instead of a Translator. I read the PDF on it when it came out, and I didn't like the adjustments. My recommendation would be to stick to a regular Translator.
6.1 requires a MAF and a Translator and a WB. You set your AF...and it tracks it and keeps it there...it's that simple. Your WB has to be working correctly to feed it the correct info.
5.7 requires that you adjust your fueling in low and high gear working off NB or WB. You have to guess as to how much fuel to add/subtract in low/high gear based on temperature, humidity and grains of water.
My recommendation between the two is 6.1, as it requires almost zero tuning knowledge.
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Thanks to both of you. I need to check my chip now because I know it's a 5.? maybe 5.1?
I'll keep the Gen 2 as long as it doesn't become a PITA every time I start the car. Fingers crossed?
The 6.1 sounds like a nice setup with a translator & I have a Bosch wide band with under 2K miles & no race gas just Alchy. The previous one lasted 4-5 years with 1 tank of 112 unleaded at each of the BPG events over the years. I have the XD-16 gauge for it that's total Overkill for my needs but it's easy to read. :cheers:
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Chip will be a 5.5, 5.6 or 5.7. The 5.7 alky chip has 'aggressive' mode.
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So Gen 2 works fine except when the Power goes off the Low Load Fuel setting (only at 1600 rpm) pulls max fuel of -63.5 The 1st time I did key off it was fine but after that this BS happens over & over? Anyways for now I'm going to snip the Gen 2 Power wire & stick a hot wire in the plug so it stays on all the time. I don't think having it turned on all the time will be an issue? My ECM is On at all times & together they both drain so little juice the battery should be fine. At some point I guess I need a new translator & a 6.1 which should round off to about $500 delivered. Oh Happy Days! :icon_eyes:
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Well now what a surprise! I haven't paid much attention to the car the last 3-4 years & looking at my Power Logger, Gen 2 & Eric's chip instructions he mailed me many years ago they are dated 08. I think I must have had this setup since 2010 for sure but anyways it's a 6.0 chip with wide band a/f correction. I vaguely remember sending him back a 5.? chip. Also have a Bob Bailey FT for PL from same time frame sitting here.
I guess my memory isn't that good when I'm not putting effort into something because until I took out the TT chip setting directions no way i would have guessed I had this 6.0 chip. Anyways, when I look at the chip & verify the numbers I'm going to start a fresh thread with some PL runs & see what tuning tips you guys can help me with. I took out some fuel today & I think I'm headed the right direction. :cheers:
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You likely sent him the 5.x chip...and he reburned it to 6.0 to save you a few bucks. He woulda burned it for the combo you had then. There's a number on it...he keeps a file on every chip...and that will tell him what mods it was burned for. If you didn't change mods since 2008...then you're good. If you're unsure...conta ct him on the other board.