IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: earlbrown on December 28 2016, 10:04:02 PM
-
I need to get a chip bought for my 4.2L before the end of the year since thre's going to be a large price increase on Jan 1.
I already have the scanmaster3.0, power logger, PLX W/B, and a translator.
Should I just stick with the 5.7 or should I spend the extra cheeze for the W/B tracking?
-
With the increased accuracy of the wideband vs narrowband, I would say yes but don't let me influence what you spend your money on.
-
Earl, get the 6.1! What isn't to like about wideband O2 correction? Especially with a good wideband. I think you would regret it after if you didn't.
-
I don't mind spending money as long as I get my money worth. I'm new to TT chips. Right now I have a 3.8 chip running a deep breathing 4.2 so it goes lean as hell right as I get in the gas a little but it seems to run OK around town. I need to get one burned for my combo, it's just the 6.1 is 50% more. If it's worth it AND the W/B tracking actually does what it says it'll do, I'm fine with the extra cheeze.
I just won't want to end up with something like the old translator plus that did more harm than good with the timing stuff.
I'd really like to go SD but I just can't justify spending that much on a car I really don't drive anymore. Not to mention all the extra tuning and effort to get it running right.
-
If you desire plug and play (so to speak), yes.
If you desire not being a slave to the relative limitations of 80s technology (and waiting for a new chip in the mail over and over again), no. Go with a stand alone EFI option.
-
Why would he be waiting for a new chip in the mail? Eric has done an excellent job with his chips. And if you have the wideband O2 correction and MAF, you have the best of both worlds and you can tune it as well.
-
Why would he be waiting for a new chip in the mail? Eric has done an excellent job with his chips. And if you have the wideband O2 correction and MAF, you have the best of both worlds and you can tune it as well.
Future updates.
-
This car is done being updated. I just want it to be turn key instead of the 10+ year garage art it has been.
I spent over an hour trying to get a 6.1 on the way. Turns out I had to dust off IE so the sale could go through. :\
-
the 6.1 tends to keep idiots from screwing up....of course, most of them end up running much richer than their combo requires because they take the A/f for a nine second car and use it on their 13 sec car but that has been going on forever. That makes them even slower.
It does work pretty well with regard to maintaining the A/f to where it was set.
-
So, you are saying if I use the nine sec tune my car wont run nines?
-
So, you are saying if I use the nine sec tune my car wont run nines?
It will run nines, in your mind!
-
So, you are saying if I use the nine sec tune my car wont run nines?
It will run nines, in your mind!
Or in the 1/8th.
My personal hardship with "chips" is from having seen what else is out there - not that Eric and Bob aren't doing great things for you guys.
-
Stand alones are nice but there is more sense of accomplishment when you can run really good times on a basically stock location chip in the stock computer.
-
Stand alones are nice but there is more sense of accomplishment when you can run really good times on a basically stock location chip in the stock computer.
Generally, it seems that an aftermarket system, in the hands of an experienced tuner, seem to be more likely to pick up hundredths instead of tenths, over a well tuned chipped car despite what vendors/tuners like to claim.
I have seen quite a few in the hands of home tuners that went slower.
It's really quite easy to understand. A quick car tends to run over a 500-800 rpm bandwidth which, in reality, makes the fueling simple. A few trial and error runs to see what it likes in that range and one is there. Picking a synergistic combination of parts is far more important than the chip or system. All the advertising claims that the stock computer is slow are correct. It just does not make any difference in a drag racing scenario where all we have to contend with is 500-800 rpm.
Getting the car to launch reliably is harder than most of the tuning. No doubt, the latest systems that provide boost ramping can help on a really fast car that wants to spin the tires can make it easier to dial in if one cannot handle it with suspension.
For the average guy that never avails himself of all that is included in with modern chips is never going to be successful with aftermarket unless he can afford a "tuner" to show up and help him.
Let's face it, most guys have a hard time with the instructions on chips and they never accomplish much with an aftermarket system.
Some guys love the intricacy of the aftermarket systems and love tweaking things and they are often not very fast but they love talking about what they can do...different strokes for different folks. It's all about what gives us pleasure.
-
^hence my need for a plain ole chip. I'm smart enough to tune an aftermarket chip but I just don't give a fuck. :)
I'm approximately 100% sure I'll never tune my GN to the Nth degree. Close is good enough for me.
I have been thinking about making the slant 6 in my '72 Dodge van fuel injected though. Can't decide between 80's shitbox FI or soldering up a megasquirt.
...but that's a different story. :tongue
-
^hence my need for a plain ole chip. I'm smart enough to tune an aftermarket chip but I just don't give a fuck. :)
I'm approximately 100% sure I'll never tune my GN to the Nth degree. Close is good enough for me.
I have been thinking about making the slant 6 in my '72 Dodge van fuel injected though. Can't decide between 80's shitbox FI or soldering up a megasquirt.
...but that's a different story. :tongue
I have been thinking the same for my Challenger...M eqaSquirt or a FITech system are my two leading candidates. Price is right on both and would improve gas mileage and cold start.... After having FI cars, cold natured carbed beasts are a pain in the neck.
-
Been hearing some less than positive things about the FITech; I'd go with MS as it is expandable, because I am a slow nerd.
-
Been hearing some less than positive things about the FITech; I'd go with MS as it is expandable, because I am a slow nerd.
Most of the throttlebody input on the Mopar boards has been pretty good...but, to get the real benefit, I think I need port injection and that has not come to market as of yet-or so I understand. Pretty dicey in my experience to be in on the early stuff.
MegaSquirt has been under continual development for a long time now and it works. If my son gets a Miata running out of his two...then I was thinking of helping him with a turbo set up....and MS is definitely the way to go there altho there are a couple of other options.---At least that is my opinion :)
-
Been hearing some less than positive things about the FITech; I'd go with MS as it is expandable, because I am a slow nerd.
Most of the throttlebody input on the Mopar boards has been pretty good...but, to get the real benefit, I think I need port injection and that has not come to market as of yet-or so I understand. Pretty dicey in my experience to be in on the early stuff.
MegaSquirt has been under continual development for a long time now and it works. If my son gets a Miata running out of his two...then I was thinking of helping him with a turbo set up....and MS is definitely the way to go there altho there are a couple of other options.---At least that is my opinion :)
My thoughts exactly. I have seen 9 second cars with FITech; but there are more 9 second cars running MS.
-
How about this Earl for your '72 Hippie love fest slant 6 van?
-
That is great!
-
Stand alones are nice but there is more sense of accomplishment when you can run really good times on a basically stock location chip in the stock computer.
Generally, it seems that an aftermarket system, in the hands of an experienced tuner, seem to be more likely to pick up hundredths instead of tenths, over a well tuned chipped car despite what vendors/tuners like to claim....
Well put Steve! Couldn't have said it better.
-
I think that for us "older people" that grew up having to think for ourselves a chip is all we need and adjust from there. Regardless of contrary thinking it's still air and fuel.
For the younger people that need to be plugged in and a computer to tell them every move then a stand alone is for them.
IMO
-
I think that for us "older people" that grew up having to think for ourselves a chip is all we need and adjust from there. Regardless of contrary thinking it's still air and fuel.
For the younger people that need to be plugged in and a computer to tell them every move then a stand alone is for them.
IMO
I believe you have that backwards, but I think I know what you meant.
-
My opinion is that the average younger guy/girl has no clue as to how an engine works let alone the tuning process. They may be good texting, twittering, or FB'ing, but they want to buy parts and not have to read anything to install them.
Older guys may not appreciate computers as much but they are much better at grasping concepts and applying them so they quickly pick it up.
Exceptions to all rules, tho
-
How about this Earl for your '72 Hippie love fest slant 6 van?
Love it!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
-
How about this Earl for your '72 Hippie love fest slant 6 van?
The blower is where my feets go!! I dd come close to putting a stock GN turbo and intercooler on mine many years ago. Then the turbo got lost in a move and I wasn't going to buy one just to be silly (and have the fastest 72 slant6 van in the world).
...speaking of ProChargers, you ever heard the phrase ''it's sitting there growing dust"?..
http://www.ihadav8.com/forum/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=186 (http://www.ihadav8.com/forum/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=186)
http://www.ihadav8.com/forum/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=187 (http://www.ihadav8.com/forum/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=187)
(http://www.ihadav8.com/forum/index.php?action-media;sa=media;in=187)
-
Earl, I would highly recommend the 6.1 if you are not considering SD2. My only regret of buying the 6.1 is that I didn't go straight to SD2.
It does what it says it will do. On my unopened longblock 10.99 and 11.07 passes my fuel pressure was off around 12-15 psi where it should have been with my weak pump. The 6.1 added a ton of fuel and kept the AFR where it needed to be and I got no knock. The wideband tracking works.
No trees were harmed in the sending of this message, however, a significant number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced .
-
Been hearing some less than positive things about the FITech; I'd go with MS as it is expandable, because I am a slow nerd.
Most of the throttlebody input on the Mopar boards has been pretty good...but, to get the real benefit, I think I need port injection and that has not come to market as of yet-or so I understand. Pretty dicey in my experience to be in on the early stuff.
MegaSquirt has been under continual development for a long time now and it works. If my son gets a Miata running out of his two...then I was thinking of helping him with a turbo set up....and MS is definitely the way to go there altho there are a couple of other options.---At least that is my opinion :)
My thoughts exactly. I have seen 9 second cars with FITech; but there are more 9 second cars running MS.
FiTech on and in a Mopar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Plo8-36Ofg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Plo8-36Ofg)
-
Earl, I would highly recommend the 6.1 if you are not considering SD2. My only regret of buying the 6.1 is that I didn't go straight to SD2.
It does what it says it will do. On my unopened longblock 10.99 and 11.07 passes my fuel pressure was off around 12-15 psi where it should have been with my weak pump. The 6.1 added a ton of fuel and kept the AFR where it needed to be and I got no knock. The wideband tracking works.
No trees were harmed in the sending of this message, however, a significant number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced .
I popped the extra money for the 6.1. I just couldn't justify the extra cheeze for the SD. If it would have been close to the same money I would have went that route. More money and more work isn't my idea of a good time.
What's odd is USPS ran today (Sunday) and I got my chip.... with today's high of 40F. Needless to say, it's sitting on my couch. :)
-
I don't buy the cold start stuff, having grew up, up north a carb with a working choke starts faster/better than a fuel injection system. You can have injectors dump as much gas as you like but still can't compare with that choke blade blocking off the air coming in. Especially when dealing with weak cold battery.
Here in Texas it doesn't matter.
^hence my need for a plain ole chip. I'm smart enough to tune an aftermarket chip but I just don't give a fuck. :)
I'm approximately 100% sure I'll never tune my GN to the Nth degree. Close is good enough for me.
I have been thinking about making the slant 6 in my '72 Dodge van fuel injected though. Can't decide between 80's shitbox FI or soldering up a megasquirt.
...but that's a different story. :tongue
I have been thinking the same for my Challenger...M eqaSquirt or a FITech system are my two leading candidates. Price is right on both and would improve gas mileage and cold start.... After having FI cars, cold natured carbed beasts are a pain in the neck.
-
In a fuel injected car, as long as the throttle is closed, air is blocked off all the time. The throttle blade sorta acts like a choke blade.
-
I have a lot of friends up north that will disagree and vote for the FI. The FI will set the needed AF and the idle speed requited to keep it running and the car will run smoother from the very start.
My own experience from the North Slope to the southern tip of South America, tells me that I would much rather have FI in the cold or in the hot. You are welcome to come up and set the choke on my Challenger so that it does not take five minutes to get enough heat in the engine to over come a cold morning lol
-
A working choke meaning one with a cable .otherwise you are adjusting it every time the temperature changes, correct/?
A good efi and the polar bears will thank you.
-
It is funny timing I receiced an email this morning from a relative who said his plow truck was DIS. dead in snow. Choke stuck closed.
I have a lot of friends up north that will disagree and vote for the FI. The FI will set the needed AF and the idle speed requited to keep it running and the car will run smoother from the very start.
My own experience from the North Slope to the southern tip of South America, tells me that I would much rather have FI in the cold or in the hot. You are welcome to come up and set the choke on my Challenger so that it does not take five minutes to get enough heat in the engine to over come a cold morning lol
-
I have a lot of friends up north that will disagree and vote for the FI. The FI will set the needed AF and the idle speed requited to keep it running and the car will run smoother from the very start.
My own experience from the North Slope to the southern tip of South America, tells me that I would much rather have FI in the cold or in the hot. You are welcome to come up and set the choke on my Challenger so that it does not take five minutes to get enough heat in the engine to over come a cold morning lol
My old 85 T-Type would not start in the Northern cold. No problem here in Winnipeg though. But anything after -35 it would pump in too much fuel. Ford actually did cold start testing in Thompson which is 350 km south of where I grew up. Because of Ford's testing they had no problems starting past -40 but before that I had a buddy at the dealership saying how they had to replace all the platinum plugs because the Ford trucks over fueled and fouled the plugs.
-
I wonder if modern motor oil would have helped with that or a heater.
But even sensors have their limitations.
Is there such a thing as a cold weather tune?
-
Remember, that is 1985 technology. And most car manufacturers never tested in very extreme colds. Now most vehicles don't even have a block heater, just factory synthetic fluid.
And most definitely heaters will help.
-
A working choke meaning one with a cable .otherwise you are adjusting it every time the temperature changes, correct/?
A good efi and the polar bears will thank you.
A working choke meaning one with a cable .otherwise you are adjusting it every time the temperature changes, correct/?
As carb cars age, it's a whole new ball game. From new, the choke is a bimetal spring and shouldn't need adjusted. But, if the linkage, spring, and choke blade wear, than it will need adjusted. Where many choke problems crop up is on the vacuum pull offs: either wear, failure, or adjustment. A hand choke eliminates all that but there needs to be somebody to "tap" it in as it's warming up to be effective. That's where all the automatic stuff does better. I like talking carburetors, but glad i don't have to deal with them anymore. My favorites were quadrajets.
A good efi and the polar bears will thank you.
-
Earl, I would highly recommend the 6.1 if you are not considering SD2. My only regret of buying the 6.1 is that I didn't go straight to SD2.
It does what it says it will do. On my unopened longblock 10.99 and 11.07 passes my fuel pressure was off around 12-15 psi where it should have been with my weak pump. The 6.1 added a ton of fuel and kept the AFR where it needed to be and I got no knock. The wideband tracking works.
No trees were harmed in the sending of this message, however, a significant number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced .
I like mine. Usually it's just set the A/F and forget it. You just have to be carefull to keep it in the "correction window" by setting the base fuel.
I popped the extra money for the 6.1. I just couldn't justify the extra cheeze for the SD. If it would have been close to the same money I would have went that route. More money and more work isn't my idea of a good time.
What's odd is USPS ran today (Sunday) and I got my chip.... with today's high of 40F. Needless to say, it's sitting on my couch. :)
-
I remembered going up North in 1993 for Christmas and New Years. I had a few buddy's who had there snowmobile stolen, my buddy's Polaris EFI Indy wasn't stolen because it wouldn't start!!! :icon_lol: The EFI Indy ran great in the warm weather but would never start in temperatures below -35'C also.
-
Pulled my GNn out of the garage to install the new chip and found two big ass dents in the PS door. On of them popped off paint in the center almost as big as a dime. Right on the damn style line too.
Guess who just lost all interest in fucking with this car today?
-
something similar is what made me lose interest in my GN for the past couple of years...and I did it.
-
Ouch, Earl.
-
something similar is what made me lose interest in my GN for the past couple of years...and I did it.
It is a humbling experience when you realise you are doing things that only OLD people do.For me anyway.
-
How do you think the dents got there?
I've lost interest in my GN several times over. The wiring harness is still waiting for me. Being self employed all my life was tough, getting constant left hooks from my own car is tougher.
-
Guess who just lost all interest in fucking with this car today?
You mean in? The Buick has a decent size back seat, the girl friends really liked it! Don't sweat the small stuff.
-
How do you think the dents got there?
I've lost interest in my GN several times over. The wiring harness is still waiting for me. Being self employed all my life was tough, getting constant left hooks from my own car is tougher.
No idea. They are too low to be shopping carts (and way too deep). The large one looks like it was take a ball peen hammer to replicate
No witness marks or any grazing. It looks like two perfectly square hits with a slight height difference and difference in depth.
I don't drive the car enough anymore to enjoy owning it. And working (along with spending money) on something who's main job seems to be keeping my jetboat outside is getting old.
I miss the days of building stuff and turning wrenches for fun just to make it better.
Speaking of that, I think I'll pull that piece of shit outside of the garage and modk up the crank in my jetboat engine. I've been thinking about writing a how-to guide on setting the thrust bearing the CORRECT way for a while now. To bad I've already done the flow mods to the bearings....
-
Selling off things that you aren't using and occupy your mind/cost you money is very liberating. Ask me how I know.
I am considering selling off the TBSS and/or wagon (and the stupid Taurus) in an effort to continue to simplify things around here.
-
I'm right there with you. Only issue is when this car was stolen a lot of the Buick community came to the plate with parts and some moneys. It'd be a slap in the face to all the people that wanted to keep a GN on the road if I were to part it out.
So I kinda have to put it back the way it was.
I can also put the damn thing in the corner and go ride the rides at Kristieland too :tongue
-
Earl, any disgruntled members of the opposite sex, that have a pot of "revenge" simmering on the back burner? :cool; :cool;
-
Quit adding to it and just make it run and drive. Not to make your dent less than mine but this one I drive has been through multiple hail events. Dents yes, and lots of patina. I had a guy in a delivery van almost side swipe it the other day on the highway giving the thumbs up . I can't count the number of how much or is it for sales I get. I generally start at what are you offering and if they make me I throw out $25k and ask where we are. I enjoy driving it and I'm sure you do too. Mine has been stolen but the insurance co put it back together . I have a lot of memories in it just like you do in yours. Now put it together and drive it. You know you have the skills, just have to put in the time.
It is an iconic car and draws lots of attention. You need to roll out in yours and you can experience it too.
-
I'm not adding to it, I'm trying to make it a car that can be driven like it was before it got destroyed.
After over 10 years of this shit, I'd like the tunnel to be a little shorter. It's bad enough to have to repair all the damage that was done, but all the extra crap that came from sittings is actually worse than building the engine and putting the interior back together.
I need to pull the dash out so I can Lysol the hell out of everything, install the new (very complicated) alarm, repair the HVAC that quit working over the years and build a ''whole car hotwire kit'' I have in my head.
I wanted that to happen about 8 months ago, but I keep losing interest due to all the other crap I have to repair or build around the house.
-
Sounds like adding to it to me. If it is running and you are driving, the git r done is a lot easier as there is a little reward each time you take it for a spin. It is just garage art when you never take it out. I hope I'm not being too harsh, as I don't know your situation but I do understand "all the other"stuff to repair. Wife and four kids tear up a lot of stuff.
-
No, it's currently in 'can move under it's own power' mode. I can't stop working on it until it's in 'right' mode.
All the headlights have went dim from sitting. I guess all the halogen leaked out so I can barely see at night... got a new dust covered H4 kit sitting here....
I can't stop powdery mold from appearing on the dash, steering wheel, and console so I'm not really thrilled about driving it if the windows can't be down. I'm not going to get physically sick over this damn thing.
The list of silly shit is actually pretty long.
Honestly when I look back all the work I have done it's pretty amazing how much I have gotten done. Building 3 engines (hence the 'earlbrown' forged pistons), wheel bearings, rotors, brakes, SS lines,tires, vac conversion, gas tank, designing an new rear frame brace, (making kits for bearing jobs and vac conversion jobs and SS brake line jobs and rear frame braces....),
Anything less than 100% is NOT 100%. I'm not at 100% yet. Not whining or crying, that's just what I have waiting on me. And it's a long ass list. ..that keeps getting longer. I haven't en lazy It's just been more damage that I can knock out in a weekend.