IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
General => IHADAV8 Playground => Topic started by: good2win22 on April 06 2016, 10:30:08 PM
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Well... The Buick Gods have looked upon with me favor. Jake called today and the tranny and converter are ready. i hope to be picking them both up this coming Saturday. He mentioned he might be able to meet me part way. If that's the case, I may not be able to meet up with you Rich. We will solidify plans tomorrow and I'll give you a shout.
Anyway, this thread will be dedicated to the swap with before, progress and after pics. All insight, tips and hints are welcome. It's been a long time coming... And I am ready
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http://m.northerntool.com/products/shop~tools~product_200640984_200640984?hotline=false (http://m.northerntool.com/products/shop~tools~product_200640984_200640984?hotline=false)
Trans jack. Makes stabbing way easier. Tilts side to side and front to back. Worked great for getting it stabbed.
(https://www.matcotools.com/ProductImages/ft23800.jpg)
Also a flywheel turner. Way better than busted knuckles.
No shift cable so you don't have to worry about that. Pull the tv cable so it doesn't get damaged. Get a three foot extension to do the bell housing bolts from below., i like an impact universal or some electrical tape on a regular universal joint to stiffen it up, floppy joint is annoying. Bend the pinch weld out of the way while the trans I out for next time. Maybe some new u joints while you have the drive shaft out. Make sure the converter is seated all the way. Have plenty of fluid on hand.
If you need help let me know. Not sure when but I could try to come down. Either way I'm hoping it works well.
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Whoo Hooo
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Got a tranny jack as well as an adapter for a floor jack, if you need to borrow them Jason. :rock: Send me a note if you do. :cheers:
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Pfft. I bench pressed the TH400 in and out of my Buick. Man up. ;)
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Fellas,
I plan on removing the current engine and tranny as a whole and then installing the barn motor and rebuilt tranny as a whole. SLIC is gone and I can pull the radiator in about 2 minutes. Should be plenty of room with the hood out of the way. I plan on getting the engine bay cleaned up to Mike's standards before install. That's where I want to spend a good deal of time at. Thanks for all the input and keep it coming
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Personally I have never pulled them together but I did help a buddy install them combined. The only PITA was we had to get the car on jack stand and angle it in then use the leveler on the hoist to get it in place.
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I've never done a set either. Just engine or trans but not both. I cam see where pulling the radiator and such to gain angle. Are you pulling the hood all the way off?
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Now this is some angle!
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I've never done a set either. Just engine or trans but not both. I cam see where pulling the radiator and such to gain angle. Are you pulling the hood all the way off?
Hood will be off
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Don't you just pull the hood shocks off and prop it straight up so you don't have to re-align the hinges?
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Don't you just pull the hood shocks off and prop it straight up so you don't have to re-align the hinges?
I will drill an alignment hole on each hinge before removing the hood.
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Plan is in place for tranny pick up on Saturday. Leaving a bit early to meet up with Rich, then on to Jake's Performance
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Cool always fun to have a coffee with like minded folks!
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We need a pic of you two together!
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(http://s25.postimg.org/jjoki96bj/WP_20160409_08_36_48_Pro.jpg)
Jason came by this am and we made a little road trip up to Jakes Transmission to pick up Jason's trans. He also purchased a new converter with a billet backing for the lockup. Jake said it has a larger than stock friction in it for lock up. It looks great.
The wagoneer did great. Ft Worth traffic didn't sound like a good idea as they were having the duck commander 500 this weekend so we did an end around through Dallas. It was a great time.
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Nice to put some faces to the names :)
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I'm guessing Rich is on the right?
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I'm guessing Rich is on the right?
Rich on the left.
Here's a few pics of today's loot!
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Well the parts are sexy the converter looks stout
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Grow the stash back Rich. :player: What size is the converter Jason?
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I'm liking the loot!!!
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Grow the stash back Rich. :player: What size is the converter Jason?
Jake starts with 245mm housing and then does the magic. With the single larger friction disc, he says it will hold at my power level. He says he builds a 3 disc setup for the big boys that will hold but may be noisy as the discs float when at idle
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Basically a 9.5 then?
And you can lock it WOT?
Is it a spaceship design like the old 9/11 PTC made?
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does not look like the 911.
That's a nice looking converter!
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Larry, it's just a tad bigger than 9.5". More like 9 5/8ths. Yes, jake says I can lock at my power level due to the installation of the wider locking surface disc. Never seen a 911 so I'll default to Steve's knowledge with that
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I know the guy on the right!!! That's some good looking stuff Jason! Rich with a stash????
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Larry, it's just a tad bigger than 9.5". More like 9 5/8ths. Yes, jake says I can lock at my power level due to the installation of the wider locking surface disc. Never seen a 911 so I'll default to Steve's knowledge with that
I'm betting the slip rate will come in between 3 to 5 percent. Norbs' 5 disc Vig came in at that. Your MPH will be silly...even at moderate boost. Herein lies the problem. Yer' gonna get yer' arse kicked for goin' too fast. Keep it to 7.3 at the 1/8th mile tracks.
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Larry, it's just a tad bigger than 9.5". More like 9 5/8ths. Yes, jake says I can lock at my power level due to the installation of the wider locking surface disc. Never seen a 911 so I'll default to Steve's knowledge with that
I'm betting the slip rate will come in between 3 to 5 percent. Norbs' 5 disc Vig came in at that. Your MPH will be silly...even at moderate boost. Herein lies the problem. Yer' gonna get yer' arse kicked for goin' too fast. Keep it to 7.3 at the 1/8th mile tracks.
I'll do my best Brad
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Progress pics. Engine and tranny are out of the car. On a side note, maybe my cherry picker doesn't have the reach that some do but I had to grab the engine with the cherry picker rolled under the passenger tire. That little v6 sits way back in the frame. I did remove that wheel and tire to be able to roll the hoist out. Came out together with no issues. Now on to the cleaning
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Jason that's typical unless you remove the bumper I always come in from the side.
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Dan and I have an electric overhead hoist on an I beam in the shop. Makes life easy.
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Get to scrubbin'!
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Dan and I have an electric overhead hoist on an I beam in the shop. Makes life easy.
Well... I've got drag race weather and you've got snow
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Not much to report. Managed to pressure wash, blast and paint the tranny crossmember.
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I know the guy on the right!!! That's some good looking stuff Jason! Rich with a stash? ???
I used to have the handle bars.
(http://www.ihadav8.com/forum/[URL=http://s444.photobucket.com/user/texastandgransport/media/Blast%20from%20the%20Past/Picture%201067%20RIch%20%20Sarah%20Grant_zpsm3xtkdc3.jpg.html][IMG]http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq167/texastandgransport/Blast%20from%20the%20Past/Picture%201067%20RIch%20%20Sarah%20Grant_zpsm3xtkdc3.jpg)(http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq167/texastandgransport/Blast%20from%20the%20Past/Picture%201067%20RIch%20Grandma%20Gast%20Sarah%20n%20Grant_zps50tgbhp4.jpg) (http://s444.photobucket.com/user/texastandgransport/media/Blast%20from%20the%20Past/Picture%201067%20RIch%20Grandma%20Gast%20Sarah%20n%20Grant_zps50tgbhp4.jpg.html)
Then i grew out the curls
(http://www.ihadav8.com/forum/[URL=http://s444.photobucket.com/user/texastandgransport/media/Blast%20from%20the%20Past/DSCN2290_zpspdnfophz.jpg.html][IMG]http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq167/texastandgransport/Blast%20from%20the%20Past/DSCN2290_zpspdnfophz.jpg)(http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq167/texastandgransport/Blast%20from%20the%20Past/DSCN2290_zpspdnfophz.jpg) (http://s444.photobucket.com/user/texastandgransport/media/Blast%20from%20the%20Past/DSCN2290_zpspdnfophz.jpg.html)
Gotta have something to be remembered by when you are out selling.
That little activity over the Christmas holidays with UPS, they required a much more manicured look.
But that's alright, it all grows back except up on my head. That is mostly migrating south onto my back I think.
Looks like good progress Jason. Keep up the good work.
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Handle bars- that the same as love handles? Then we gots those.
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I like to think of it as a flavor saver.
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Got a little bit done this evening. Hooked my pressure washer to the hot water heater, soaked the engine bay with some dawn soap and sprayed away. Not too bad but now I'll have to get in there with my hands. Dried out all the electrical connectors with compressed air and sprayed liberally with Deoxit.
I still need an S cover actuator or just the small clamp. I can position and weld in ne of the actuators that I already have. If it gets down to just that, I may just fab up a clamp and then weld on the actuator. Going to call Mike at full throttle again tomorrow. Placed the order with him on Feb 9th and of course I've already paid.
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We were moving some cash around Iraq that night. Under that flag is a little over 100 million dollars in cash, all in potatoe sacks. By the way, I've had that same haircut since since 86'
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Jason...just make sure the rod has an absolutely straight pull to the wastegate arm.
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Had a little set back today. Getting everything ready to stab the engine and tranny and go to install the TC and it doesn't fully seat. i mate the tranny to the block and have some interference. Grab a stock D5 and it slides in. Mount the tranny and the stock converter spins freely, no interference with the flex plate. Start taking some measurements and the stock TC seats 1 1/8 inch from the tranny bell housing to the bolt mounting surface. Jakes TC only seats at 1 inch.
Email Jake, call Jake. His ideas do not make any difference. His TC still won't seat any further into the tranny. Something is bottoming and won't allow the TC to seat fully.
Shut the lights off and close the barn up.
Here's jakes converter and one of a stock D5
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I'm not sure what we are measuring there but I would set the new converter and look inside. Count the splines in there. You need it to have 27 splines but I bet it has 30 splines. Just a hunch.
Let us know.
I guess we should have stabbed it on there while we were up there.
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1 1/8" is correct...when installed and bolted up, there is normally about 1/8"-3/16" clearance between lugs and the flexplate as I recall.
It should click three times as it slides into the transmission-unless I am more senile that I admit to.
Did you measure/compare the nose lengths?
Also, sit the converter on a table on the pads...lay a straight edge across the nose and measure between the table and the straight edge. Do the same for the D5 and compare the two measurements
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Steve...Jason called me as I was rolling into the track yesterday. I said the same thing...make sure it clicks in 3 times. I talked to him last nite and he says it appears as if the input shaft is bottoming on something and wont seat in. My recommendation was to take the convertor and trans back to Jake.
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I'm not sure what we are measuring there but I would set the new converter and look inside. Count the splines in there. You need it to have 27 splines but I bet it has 30 splines. Just a hunch.
Let us know.
I guess we should have stabbed it on there while we were up there.
Rich, that measurement in the pics is from a straight edge across the front of the bell housing to the mounting lugs on the converter.
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1 1/8" is correct...when installed and bolted up, there is normally about 1/8"-3/16" clearance between lugs and the flexplate as I recall.
It should click three times as it slides into the transmission-unless I am more senile that I admit to.
Did you measure/compare the nose lengths?
Also, sit the converter on a table on the pads...lay a straight edge across the nose and measure between the table and the straight edge. Do the same for the D5 and compare the two measurements
I'm getting the three clicks. There is no difference in nose length.
the height of the converters measure the same. Approximately 5 3/4. The only measurement that is not same between the two converters is the internal depth.
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I'm not sure what we are measuring there but I would set the new converter and look inside. Count the splines in there. You need it to have 27 splines but I bet it has 30 splines. Just a hunch.
Let us know.
I guess we should have stabbed it on there while we were up there.
I have not counted the splines. I will do that
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Look in the trans to see that pump bushing. He had a converter in it so I doubt that I the prob.
The 30 spline stuff is more common as the later 700r4 and 4l60e is 30 spline.
I know they stuck a 27 spline input down into the converter when I picked mine up from my guy . We should have had him do that.
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Spline count is not the problem
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Then id keep spinning it so it can drop onto the places it needs to. Maybe turn the output a bit as you try to seat it.
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I think I might have found something. Measured the depth inside the converter where the first set of splines would bottom out against a lip. 1.475. Then took that measurement and put it up against the second set of splines as you can see in the pic. The distance between the second set of splines to the front of the first set of splines is 1.525. That's almost a 1/16th. Maybe not enough to get the 1 1/8th that I'm looking for but what other dimensions are in question
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Is it the top where it engages into the pump overall height of the converter is the same?
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Is it the top where it engages into the pump overall height of the converter is the same?
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Over all height is same. Put some grease on the notches for Jake. Pics show the results. About an 1/8" from fully seating.
Went to measure the stock converter to compare dimensions from the above post and found that the stock converter has a countersink to allow the front set of splines sit further down. Jakes converter does not have this countersink
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http://turbobuick.com/threads/converter-being-difficult-to-install.439531/ (http://turbobuick.com/threads/converter-being-difficult-to-install.439531/)
Maybe this will offer some solution.
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Thanks for the link Rich. I'm headed back to Sanger in the morning and not leaving till we come up with a solution
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Did you stand it on end and give it a whirl as suggested by david husek?
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Did you stand it on end and give it a whirl as suggested by david husek?
Yes sir. It didn't help
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Went to Jake's this morning and spent about 3 hours there. We measured and measured and then cut open the converter. Stacked the converter pieces on the input shaft without the shell. That was pretty neat to see. Can't find anything amiss. Chucked up the billet bottom and cut off .100 off the mounting lugs. Put it back together with a different stator. Welded, test fit it into the tranny and BAM! 1 1/8th from the bell housing. Pressure tested it and then threw on some paint. Off to the house I go. Get to the barn and mount up the tranny to the block and BAM! We got clearance.
So fortunate to have him take care of me like he did. He mentioned that this was only the third converter that they have ever had problems with. On a side note, I learned a lot today.
Engine and tranny are in the car. Glad to have gotten the easy stuff out of the way!
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Sweet!
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Looks like that should have shown up when you set both converters on the table on the lugs and measured the distance from the table to the top of the nose
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That is what i wanted to see when we went up there. I'm glad you got to see it and take pix. Jake sure seems to be a stand up guy.
Glad it got worked out. I can't wait for a ride.
On a side note I got a new hose on the turbo to intercooler joint(thanks for the hook up). Plenty of pull on the highway now. Down side my mileage dropped off. Probably need to keep my foot out of it.
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Looks like that should have shown up when you set both converters on the table on the lugs and measured the distance from the table to the top of the nose
The overall height was the same on both converters. As mentioned earlier, the drive hub did not have a counter sink to allow the the splines to seat the additional 1/8th inch or so. You can see that there is no countersink in the pic of the clutch. The drive hub is welded to the disc. He wasn't able to machine a counter sink and after all the measuring, it was decided that there was plenty of spline engagement and the easiest fix was to machine the lugs. Also he was concerned that the flex plate was sitting a little far out at 1 inch from the block. He thought it should be at 7/8ths. Something about how the flex plates are stamped in the manufacturing process. I tried a stock flex plate this weekend and it also measured 1 inch from the block.
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Hi Jason good luck with your build. Looks to be pretty stout indeed.
Did you happen to weigh your converter prior to the install?
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Hi Jason good luck with your build. Looks to be pretty stout indeed.
Did you happen to weigh your converter prior to the install?
Thanks!
I didn't weigh the converter before install. It was heavy but not as heavy as a stocker...
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That's what I was wondering. You get the benefit of the 3 disk yet it's lighter than the D5. Any weight reduction on the back of the crank is a good thing. My Husek converter weighed in at around 28 lbs, and the D5 was 42 if memory serves. It's a 9.5 but I can't lock it.........wel l not supposed to anyway. 14 lbs is 14 lbs. Now if I could get 14 off me, we'd be getting somewhere :)
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I am growing pretty tired of people shifting blame in their work. The fact is the converter did not fully seat in the transmission, the flexplate was not at fault for that. Carry on and fix it.
I still don't have my Trailblazer back from the body shop for similar reasons/oversights...
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It seems it is always cheaper to do substandard work/service and then fix the squeaky wheels. The ones who don't complain turn into bigger profits. And the complainers are called out as such to try to shame them into going away. This has spread to every industry I can think of in the name of hiring the cheapest labor that can be found.
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Well if you guys get Trump in there......... he'll fix all that! You guys will be making so much money you'll be wanting to give some back. And it will be ALL American made too
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I am growing pretty tired of people shifting blame in their work. The fact is the converter did not fully seat in the transmission, the flexplate was not at fault for that. Carry on and fix it.
I still don't have my Trailblazer back from the body shop for similar reasons/oversights...
Yep....but, I decided that was obvious and I would keep my mouth closed for a change....leas t he did not use an 8 lb hammer :D
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atleast he made it right, no concern with spline engagement everything is seated far enough?
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atleast he made it right, no concern with spline engagement everything is seated far enough?
I'm satisfied with the engagement. If it breaks, guess who's going to repair it?
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Can someone tell me where the clamp for the TV cable bolts to? I don't remember where it was bolted to and it has slid down the cable. Tranny bolt to the block? On the intake?
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In the end, if the converter is engaged all the way into the pump and there is 1/8"-1/4" clearance between the converter lugs and the flexplate, all should be well.
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should be one bolt into the case at the tranny end
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I think a tranny bolt to the block mine has been missing for years.....
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my cars don't have one, but you are right
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Nice find Steve! Thanks to both of you! That TV cable lays exactly on the tranny like in the diagram above. I don't think I'll be using those torque values the way that they are labeled.
No pics tonight. Got the driveshaft in and back side buttoned up. Routed all the grounds from the wire bundle to the back of the head and ran some ground straps to the head and firewall. Installed the starter and wired it up. Installed the knock sensor and plugged in the connector. Took the die grinder with a scotch Brite pad and buffed off the paint on the intake and bracket and then installed the ignition module bracket to the intake. Took a little break while looking at the champion fuel rails that I have and decided that I don't like the stock hardware that I have to mount the rails. Grabbed the stock rail and installed the 80's into them and installed the racetronix injector harness. I'm thinking about getting some all thread and making my own studs for that champion rail but I can do that later. Installed the temp sensor and the heater hard lines.
It sure is nice standing in the engine bay to do this stuff. Only problem is when you need something so you gotta climb out, grab what you need and then climb back in.
Not much going to happen tomorrow. My daughter has her last high school softball game of the season.
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LOL...9 nm equals 6.6 ft lbs or about 80 inch lbs
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Looking at your diagram again and I see the "in" behind the lbs on the 75. For some reason when I looked at it last night, I saw the 75 lbs and thought to myself, there is no way I'm torqueing that little bolt to 75 ft lbs. Oh well I am human
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the manual has a lot of errors in the torque values...I think they left the decimal out but the NM number is correct. Many would have tried to go 75. the torque is wrong on the intake manifold and many have broken bolts off putting it on
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The game was cancelled due to the field being to wet. Rescheduled for tomorrow. We have had 7.3 inches of rain since Sunday. Not as much as some of my kinfolk down in the Houston area but that's quite a bit for us up here in central Texas. I did some yard work and managed to get some time on my swap. Got the headers installed but not the cross pipe. Spoke with Steve at full throttle and he says they got the actuator from precision yesterday and was going to ship it today. I'm not holding my breath. I may just throw that little 49 on there to get it going.
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Nasty weather has missed me. I have 2.5" in
total
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Nasty weather has missed me. I have 2.5" in
total
At least no hail for you this go around!
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Getting closer to firing it up. Maybe tomorrow
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I have 2.5" in total
There are operations that can help with that Steve. :rofl: TB3 told me about them. :O
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Jason, who's headers? Good to see the black Wix :)
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Jason, who's headers? Good to see the black Wix :)
Those are a brand new second hand set of TA race headers. Fit is great and no clearance issues with RJC 3" down pipe. I ran these headers on my white T. Band clamps on the crossover. I haven't had any issues with leaks or cracks with these but we'll see on this engine.
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Looking good. I guess you got the converter ironed out. Did he tell you to run it a quart over full, or does that deep pan make up for that? Are you planning for a dual nozzle alky setup? What about the maf? 4.5" z06?
Keep up the good work. I bet you have some mowing to do.
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Looks very nice, Jason!
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Sexy! The engine, not you so much. But, feel free to change my mind with nude pictures...
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Lol there is always that 1 person that goes to far.....
Motor looks great Jason if performs as good as it looks your going to need more safety equipment!
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Looking good. I guess you got the converter ironed out. Did he tell you to run it a quart over full, or does that deep pan make up for that? Are you planning for a dual nozzle alky setup? What about the maf? 4.5" z06?
Keep up the good work. I bet you have some mowing to do.
Yes the converter is ironed out, at least I hope it is.
With the deep pans, I've been told to run them a quart low. If not, it will spit out the vent.
I'm going to see how far this single nozzle will go before throwing another nozzle on there.
I still have the 3.5 inch MAF on there.
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Alright fellas.... About to fire this thing off. I've double and triple checked my work. Going to hook up the PL and see what happens. If all is well I'll try to get a video. It will be loud though. Only the down pipe and test pipe on the exhaust.
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Well had a little hiccup and now I know why that fella sold me the mini starter. After taking it back out and putting in the old stocker.... We got ignition! It surprised me how quick the thing fired up! Just like normal...then pow! Sounds like a sewing machine even over open exhaust. I forgot to hook up the MAP sensor vacuum line but other than that all is well. Let her run about ten minutes till the fans kicked on and now I'm writing it up for you guys.
Here's a link: https://youtu.be/O7zYglWNIio
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you must have some loud sewing machines! Glad it went without any problems!
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Sounds good!
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I have 2.5" in total
There are operations that can help with that Steve. :rofl: TB3 told me about them. :O
Let me know how it works out for you! :D
They don't have an operation to shorten things Steve, unless you've created one. :rofl:
Congrats Jason. :cheers:
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https://youtu.be/Bt9zSfinwFA
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Sorry Mike I don't shoot video too often. Now I know
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Good you got her fired up without any issues. That first fire up can be nerve racking
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Sorry Mike I don't shoot video too often. Now I know
I hope you found it funny. :)
Congrats on the fire up.
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Way to go Jason. I always stress over cam break-in and the old girl retaining her fluids! I spend more time looking under the car than under the hood.
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I have 2.5" in total
There are operations that can help with that Steve. :rofl: TB3 told me about them. :O
Let me know how it works out for you! :D
They don't have an operation to shorten things Steve, unless you've created one. :rofl:
Congrats Jason. :cheers:
Glad that centimeter ruler has brought you so much pleasure
But the metric micrometer didn't register for you Steve. What's up with that? :wtf: Should I fire up the the electron microscope? :rofl:
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Got the rest of the exhaust installed yesterday. Managed to clean up the barn a little and still had some time so I asked the wife to help me put the hood back on. Got it on and aligned. I need to adjust at least one rocker on the passenger side, possibly more and re-torque the heads. Still waiting for the actuator and some valve cover breathers to come in... I haven't taken it on the road yet.
Gary, I'm running a full roller valve train on this engine. Like you, I was on the floor with a flashlight looking for leaks.
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Jason, it looks like you have hit a home run with this one. I hope it continues to be trouble free.
I apologize in participating in diverting your thread. I should know better at my age :)
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Jason, it looks like you have hit a home run with this one. I hope it continues to be trouble free.
I apologize in participating in diverting your thread. I should know better at my age :)
Me too! I hope all is good when I start to turn up the wick as well but you know how that goes
No worries Steve! I tell folks up front that I'm hung like a tuna can. Only the wife knows the truth... perhaps a few before the wife know as well LOL!
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Had my first hiccup this evening. Must've jinxed myself with the tuna can comment. Got the actuator in the mail so I put on the second hand 6262. Adjusted the rockers and fitted the right size couplers. Re-torqued the head studs. Adjusted the exhaust so everything clears. Did a look around to make sure I didn't miss anything and fired it up. What is this white smoke? Yep, sure enough the turbo is pissing oil out of the turbine side. Damn the luck! I was looking forward to actually driving the thing this evening. Shop fan is on high and pointed out the door right now blowing the smoke out of the barn. I guess the 49 is going back in tomorrow and Bison is getting a call for an over haul
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Hopefully you killed a few skeeters Jason :rofl:
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Sounds nice, so good -had to listen a couple of times, knob turned to 11.
Co-workers less appreciative.
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Well... I'm embarrassed to admit it but can you believe masking tape over the turbo drain can withstand 75#'s of oil pressure? The tape was there from when I painted the turbo 3-4 months ago. Sandwiched between the gasket and the drain flange. I guess I should be thankful that the tape didn't make its way into the block.
In other news... Swapped back to the 49. Checked everything again, reset the chip and went for a little drive. Going to have to get the bigger turbo fixed cause that little 49 wants to be in the boost all the time with this configuration. Tranny shifted well. I didn't get on it any. Well maybe just a little bit after all the oil burned off the inside of the exhaust. About 5 psi and I was pleasantly pleased.
Stopped and adjusted the fuel pressure with it still running and then went back out for about ten more minutes. Filled up the tank with some fresh 93 and came back home. Got it back in the barn and on jack stands looking for leaks. None to be found so far thank goodness. Did a little adjustment on the exhaust tube from the test pipe back to the axle, it was just a little too close to the floor pan for my liking.
Bad weather is rolling in the rest of this week so I'll be putting on the TR6 ignition, installing the new scanmaster g and hopefully installing the wideband bung somewhere in the down pipe. I need to do some reading as I'm hoping that I can ditch the AEM guage and just view the wideband through the power logger.
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I was going to ask if there was a problem with the return line.
It's fine though installer error 😝
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So I ran into a new problem yesterday evening. Go for a short drive and shutdown to get a drink. Car won't start. TR6 gives me the code for no cam sensor signal. Reset the ECM, and come home. Pull the cam sensor cap and the tab is not broken on the cam sensor. Reinstalling conform the cam sensor position. Car cranks up with no issues. Skip to Sunday afternoon. Go for a drive and come to a stop sign, pull away and get the TR6 code for no cam sensor signal. Get home, reset the ECM and car cranks up no issues.
Is this standard symptoms for a cam sensor cap about to shit itself?
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Jason, I did a TR6 search on the other site. If it's a code 15...try swapping out the cap.
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Check both plugs too I had a broken wire took for ever to diagnose had to repin the harness side.
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Jason, I did a TR6 search on the other site. If it's a code 15...try swapping out the cap.
. Code is 16
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Check both plugs too I had a broken wire took for ever to diagnose had to repin the harness side.
cap sensor plug and the engine harness plug? I need to try and find a diagram. Want to see how the TR6 gets this signal
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Cap plug I had to repin the engine side
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Did you use the TR6 to set the sensor? It works slick fire it up and adjust like a distributor then tighten it down mine lost signal once when I had tossed the cam sensor in once I set it with the TR6 it was right as rain.
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Did you use the TR6 to set the sensor? It works slick fire it up and adjust like a distributor then tighten it down mine lost signal once when I had tossed the cam sensor in once I set it with the TR6 it was right as rain.
First set it with a volt meter before installing the TR6. Didn't change it after installing the TR6. Then Saturday evening I set it again with the TR6 after getting the code. Haven't messed with it after it did it again today.
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Found the diagram on Steve's sight. Now just need to get off of work so I can go ring out some wires. Thanks again Steve for putting all that info in a one stop shop
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I hate wiring. That is all.
Glad to hear it is peppy!
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there is never enuf information :)
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I hate wiring. That is all.
Glad to hear it is peppy!
From what I have seen you have a talent for it!
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I hate wiring. That is all.
Glad to hear it is peppy!
From what I have seen you have a talent for it!
Regardless, I still feel like a unwilling sex trade worker when doing it.
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Hahahahahahaha haha
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So I ring out the wires with the volt meter. No issues there. De-pin the connector at the cam sensor and pin K at the ignition module and retention the pins. Re-pin the connectors. Set the cam sensor with the TR6 and all seems well. Go for a little drive and bam there goes the TR6 code 16, cam sensor signal lost.
Anybody have a cam sensor cap I can try? I gave the other cap I had to fella up in the Waxahatchie area. I can't seem to find anyone that just sells the cap. Thanks in advance for the help
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send me your address and I will ship you one tomorrow
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We need TB3 to find those Tomco guys in St Louis and source us a bunch of caps.
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send me your address and I will ship you one tomorrow
Sent you a PM. Appreciate you!
I guess I should rephrase my earlier statement about the cap. I can find the cap with the LED just prefer to have a stock cap.
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got it...will get it gone tomorrow
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Let me know if steve's doesn't work out. I have a cam sensor in my stuff somewhere I can dig it up for you to try. It is a used piece I bought as a backup so it is untested.
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Got the cams sensor that Steve sent yesterday from the mail man. Thanks Steve! I owe you one big time!
Got it installed and set with a volt meter. Reset the ECM, engine would turn over but not fire and there goes the tach signal from the TR6... 16. I then removed the TR6 and installed the old stock ignition module and coil. Reset the ECM and BAM, engine fires right up. Drove it around about 30 minutes with no issues.
TR6 is boxed up and ready to ship out to Bailey engineering today. I ran a TR6 on my white T with no issues but that one went with the car when I sold it. Wonder what happened with this spring batch of TR6's or is mine just an isolated case?
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Glad it's running shitty about the TR6 being the the problem. Mine works flawlessly set up with individual coils. I have seen a couple threads on the other board with a similar issue but I'm not sure what the fix was and it appears the search function is down over there.
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Glad it helped! Keep it as long as you need it :)
I think I have heard of another one failing some where along the line. Probably just a fluke
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Glad it's running shitty about the TR6 being the the problem. Mine works flawlessly set up with individual coils. I have seen a couple threads on the other board with a similar issue but I'm not sure what the fix was and it appears the search function is down over there.
Mine worked without issue on the white T but not this one. I searched every way possible on the big board and came up with nothing. Went to google instead and found a few hits but nothing of serious note.
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Glad it helped! Keep it as long as you need it :)
I think I have heard of another one failing some where along the line. Probably just a fluke
I'd like to hold onto it till Bob gets the TR6 back to me. I want to see what happens if I just swap in the TR6 after getting it back from him. I shipped it this morning and he should get it Monday.
On a side note, I also shipped the 6262 this morning as well. Bison wanted me to wait till he got back from NC
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Glad it helped! Keep it as long as you need it :)
I think I have heard of another one failing some where along the line. Probably just a fluke
I'd like to hold onto it till Bob gets the TR6 back to me. I want to see what happens if I just swap in the TR6 after getting it back from him. I shipped it this morning and he should get it Monday.
On a side note, I also shipped the 6262 this morning as well. Bison wanted me to wait till he got back from NC
It's just sitting on the shelf along aside another one...so time is no matter :)
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Flushed the cooling system yesterday evening. Went for a little drive and decided to try a little boost in 3rd gear. Let's just say with this little TA49 there is no lag whatsoever. Boost was there immediately. Went a little after the TC locked. It felt a good but a little... lacking at 15#s. 110 mph and o2's at 817.
Getting the wideband bung welded this morning. Super anxious for the 6262 to get back from Bison
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Nice work I'm really curious to hear how that converter performs. You have it set to lock thru the chip? What speed?
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Nice work I'm really curious to hear how that converter performs. You have it set to lock thru the chip? What speed?
Chip locks the converter at 98
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Jason...what size exhaust housing is on that 49?
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Jason...what size exhaust housing is on that 49?
Precision .63
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For shits and giggles I'd take it to the track and slowly bounce the boost up to 25 keeping an eye on the high gear fuel.
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For shits and giggles I'd take it to the track and slowly bounce the boost up to 25 keeping an eye on the high gear fuel.
I've got to get some tires and wheels for the track. These BFG's are great for street driving but won't do the job at the track
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Managed to get the wideband installed and working with the Powerlogger. Also got the Helwig rear bar installed. Waiting for the 6262 to get back from Bison before the real testing begins. I can mange without the TR6 but would prefer to have it working 100% when installed.
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You are going to love that swaybar! I have one waiting to go on the wagon.
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You are going to love that swaybar! I have one waiting to go on the wagon.
Instructions state to start off in the outer most hole until I get used to it. Which of the three holes did you end up mounting the links to?
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Middle for mine.
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probably end up at the short one for the best launch...maybe not :)
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Made my first little road trip today after the swap. Went into Nitrous Outlet in Waco to meet a friend to wanted a set of headers that I had. 35 miles one way. Changed the oil and filter before leaving and reset the ECM before leaving on the trip. Some observations I had while ECM is in blm learning mode and viewing the wideband guage. Cruising at 65, blm at 131 so it's adding a bit of fuel but wideband is showing a bit on the rich side of stoich at 14 - 14.3. CC's we're counting at an acceptable speed.
After staying for a while in Waco, I head home. ECM is now not stuck in learning mode as much and crushing at 65 on the way home I noticed that BLM has now come down to 127 and wideband is at 14.2 - 14.6. CC's still counting same as before. Only difference is that the ambient temp has dropped a few degrees.
Thoughts? Can the SD chip allow fueling changes at cruise?
BTW, car did great, not a single hiccup. (The proverbial knock on wood sign)
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I know zero about the SD chip. Steve should be able to help you with it.
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Yes, it can. I'm running the SD1
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If what? Would you not log the the VE table and then adjust it at that load point and rpm? I don't run a SD chip I have been researching them. Would you have too adjust the AFR table as well in those cells? What triggers the WB correction?
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No ifs, that was Google keyboard helping me out
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Lol
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Made my first little road trip today after the swap. Went into Nitrous Outlet in Waco to meet a friend to wanted a set of headers that I had. 35 miles one way. Changed the oil and filter before leaving and reset the ECM before leaving on the trip. Some observations I had while ECM is in blm learning mode and viewing the wideband guage. Cruising at 65, blm at 131 so it's adding a bit of fuel but wideband is showing a bit on the rich side of stoich at 14 - 14.3. CC's we're counting at an acceptable speed.
After staying for a while in Waco, I head home. ECM is now not stuck in learning mode as much and crushing at 65 on the way home I noticed that BLM has now come down to 127 and wideband is at 14.2 - 14.6. CC's still counting same as before. Only difference is that the ambient temp has dropped a few degrees.
Thoughts? Can the SD chip allow fueling changes at cruise?
BTW, car did great, not a single hiccup. (The proverbial knock on wood sign)
Was there a shift in temperature or barometric pressure? Hell, it could have just been the engine breaking in/getting comfortable. I have seen as much as 15% difference in the fuel trims (both VE and MAF) from -40*C to 18*C in my TBSS, so whatever the % range from 131 to 127 is could be pretty normal deviation from day to day. Obviously BLM and INT being short and long term adjustments.
And yes, you can chase the VE table up and down to compensate for the trims if they get way out of line.
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About a 3% difference between the numbers Mike. Temp drop was the only significant difference in weather conditions and it wasn't that much. Went from 84 on the way over down to about 75 on the way back.
My observation was more directed at the difference in readings between the 2 sensors. NB wanting to add fuel when WB says a little on the rich side and the opposite on the way home. With the 5.7 chip, there is no option to tune cruise conditions
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Installed the TA rear diff girdle this evening. Man! Real estate is at a premium back there with the Helwig bar and RJC muffler. Going to have to reposition the muffler this weekend and adjust the position of the bar on the axle tube
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The cross flow muffler? That would be tight!
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Tight...but lighter than my ATR dual exhaust.
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The cross flow muffler? That would be tight!
It sounds pretty good too.
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Sounds good in the vid on RJC's site. Was about to order one myself when it first came out...but this ATR unit came up from my engine builder in Montreal.
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Good call on the diff girdle Jason. I have the one from Jeremys car on mine. :) Toss a pair of Moser axles in it before you tear a rear quarter up. Seen that happen too many times at the track.
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The cross flow muffler? That would be tight!
Yes it's the 3 inch cross flow. Although when looking through the muffler, it's a straight clear shot thru to the drivers side exit. I'm hoping to be able to adjust the angle of the muffler a little towards the fuel tank. Will have to reposition the hangers for the exits but that's just drilling a few holes. I'm not quite certain yet on which way to move the bar. I'm hoping to move it towards the front of the axle.
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Good call on the diff girdle Jason. I have the one from Jeremys car on mine. :) Toss a pair of Moser axles in it before you tear a rear quarter up. Seen that happen too many times at the track.
I bought this girdle a couple of days before selling the white T. Been sitting ever since then and since I'm waiting on Bison for the 6262 and Bob Bailey for the TR6, I figured I needed to do something on the car. Axles are on the list
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I run the RJC exhaust and love the way it sounds. Did you use band clamps Jason?
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I run the RJC exhaust and love the way it sounds. Did you use band clamps Jason?
I used band clamps on the down pipe and the intermediate pipe where it connects just before going over the axle by the drive shaft. It does sound good doesn't it
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Drove the limited to work today with no issues. On the way home it was around 90 degrees and muggy. I started watching the coolant temp to see the effects of the front mount. 170.6 is what it hung steady at on the curves and hills of east range road. Even after getting on hwy 36 and getting up to 70 it still hung at 170.6. Came to a stop light by the house and temp starts to go down. Fans were running since temp went above 167. I'm beginning to believe that the dual intrepid fans are a restriction at speed. I may need to rig me a kill switch to the fans. What do y'all think?
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It could be blocking some air flow
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If all you're seeing is 170 degrees in the heat of the day...then I wouldn't worry about it.
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If all you're seeing is 170 degrees in the heat of the day...then I wouldn't worry about it.
Make the engine last longer for sure
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Heat makes power. 170* sounds pretty good to me. I saw my first car dealer temp in three digits yesterday. How does it do in traffic? Mine will be up above 200*. I guess I need some intrepid fans.
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170 is good I have a switch on mine to switch to high speed if mine starts to get hot even seems to help at 75 mph or 120kph for us Canadians
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Just for testing purposes, I think I'll rig a temporary on/off switch and see what happens at highway speeds. I can see it cooling down at the stop lights so I'm happy with that part of it so far. I would prefer that the fans were not running all the time when temps are above the fan turn on threshold of 167 if enough air is passing through radiator.
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Well I'm a little hacked off.
Bob Bailey sends me a message that he has bench tested the TR6 module and couldn't find anything wrong and just now sends me a message that he ran it on his car to lunch and back with no issues. "Must be the cam sensor timing in your car," he says.
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well that sucks the plug from the harness to the cam sensor is good? I had to re pin mine and I did not notice this issue prior to installing my TR6 there was a broken wire that would interrupt the signal as far as I can tell its all good now.
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Well I've calmed down a bit. Messaging back and forth with Bob and he has suggested the same things that I've already checked but I'll do it again and I'm going to pull each wire out of the loom to make certain.
Evidently the stock module is a less sensitive as to the cam phasing and the TR6 is less tolerant of a crappy cam sensor phase. He has some software that he's testing that is more like the stock module but it's still in testing. He mentioned retensioning the pins in the connector as the stock modules are a tad thicker than the pins on the TR6. We'll see
On a good note, Bison shipped my 6262 yesterday.
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leave my cam sensor in it when you get it back and see if it happens with that sensor...then go back to yours and try it again...I think we get too precise when we try to go the factory one better and add more science to the equation at times
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leave my cam sensor in it when you get it back and see if it happens with that sensor...then go back to yours and try it again...I think we get too precise when we try to go the factory one better and add more science to the equation at times
Steve, I put yours in, phased it and it came up with the same code. That's why I sent the TR6 back to Bob, but I'll try it again.
Going to check the wires tomorrow.
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sorry...I forgot that you tried it... :)
IF you did not do it when you installed it...rotate the sensor about 1/8" ccw from the normal set point
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One thing that I haven't tried is a separate ground wire from the module housing to the body...
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Got the 6262 installed last week but haven't played with it yet. Also got the TR6 back from Bob on Saturday but haven't got a chance to get it installed. I'm going to add another ground directly to the TR6 and see what happens.
Steve, I should get your cam sensor back to you sometime next week
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No worries
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Got the TR6 installed. Set Steve's cam sensor static and then set it dynamically with the engine running with the function of the TR6. All seems good. Went for a drive. 8 miles later get the TR6 code 16 on the tach. Go home and change out Steve's sensor for my old cam sensor. Same procedure as before. Set it static and dynamically. All is well go for a drive. 8 miles later get the TR6 code 16 on the tach. Message Bob Bailey back and forth. Call in a favor to Rich for some voltage readings on his car. It appears that voltage readings vary enough that Bob says I need a oscilloscope and he could nail this down. The only thing I haven't done is pull the sensor wire out of the bundle and ring it out back to the module. I've even thought of rigging up a test wire from the sensor back to the module...
Also thought of selling the TR6.
On a side note, I'm not happy with Mr. Bison.
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:( that's shitty
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Smh..... I admit to running a jumper wire or two in my life
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BTW, you did try another ecm, didn't you?
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BTW, you did try another ecm, didn't you?
Yes sir! I've had both of my ECM's in there with your cam sensor and with my cam sensor. Didn't matter either way
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sounds to me as if the thing is made to too close of a tolerance....
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sounds to me as if the thing is made to too close of a tolerance....
That's exactly what Bob said. He said he is working on the software to be a tad more tolerant of minor inconsistencie s but it's not available yet.
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that's good to know...I have seen a lot of variation in the cam sensor signal voltage
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That's the thing with 30 year old wiring. I would like a new engine harness it would be good but it's a costly and time consuming project.
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I'm not convinced that it's wiring, but some jumpers would answer that.
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Just the three we looked at fluctuated. Mine was 6.9-7.1 Jason had a bit higher and Jim said his was in the 16v range. Crazy different.
Jump it. I'm thinking it might show continuity but could be pinched, smashed or nicked and isn't carrying the voltage all the way.Jason said he would pull it out of the bundle but jumping it would probably be quicker and easier.
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They have varied a lot since they were new. That's the reason, I am not convinced it's the wiring. We have three components in play and a lot of wiring..but jumping should be easy and might prove it is :)
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I'll throw a jumper in there but it will have to wait till tomorrow. Headed to Pearland for an ATP check ride tomorrow morning
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Good luck on your ATP check!
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Jason=got the cam sensor back today :)
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Thanks Rich! I passed the check ride.
Thanks Steve for the loan
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:cheers:
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Well done Jason
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Thanks Larry!
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Good...now get in the damn plane and fly to Picton Airfield...hom e of Armdrop. :)
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Good...now get in the damn plane and fly to Picton Airfield...hom e of Armdrop. :)
Someday Brad. Someday...
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Installed a jumper on the signal wire from the cam sensor to the ignition module. Went for a drive....
No change. Got the 16 code again on the tach from the TR6.
Promptly removed the jumper wire and TR6. Installed the stock ignition module and coil. Went for a drive. No codes. Noticeably starts quicker than with TR6 unit and appears to idle smoother.
Decided to flush the coolant system and had this old heat shield laying around so I installed it. Charlie and Gary saw it on my white T, what do you guys think?
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I'm the kinda guy that likes the stock look and very much dislikes black heat shields
But yours is different. That's badass!
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Hate to say it...but I'm hooked on underhood bling. :icon_redface:
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Had a turbo shield with EET FUK written on it for awhile.......b ut took it off for explaining it ad nauseam :icon_lol:
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Had a turbo shield with EET FUK written on it for awhile.......b ut took it off for explaining it ad nauseam :icon_lol:
You have a pic of it?
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Pulled the 6262 and put the 49 back on. Chatted back and forth with Bison. Shipping the 6262 back to him on Monday. Spent the rest of the day relocating grounds. Ran a wire from the battery ground on the front fender to a 6 slot terminal strip. Wide band, gauges, scanmaster and alky control grounds all got moved. Thinking of sticking my factory radio back in while I wait for Bison
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Thinking of sticking my factory radio back in while I wait for Bison
Because you like hearing static?
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Thinking of sticking my factory radio back in while I wait for Bison
Because you like hearing static?
No Mike, just a sarcastic point that I'm frustrated. Haven't even made one trip down the track since getting this thing put together. Got some time this month to do something and thought it would all be together but it's not. I'll be in St. Louis for most of the month of August and then up to Granbury the first week of September for a 407 transition. Oh well, it ain't going anywhere
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Take it to the track and beat on the 49. Get some seat time. :rock:
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Thinking of sticking my factory radio back in while I wait for Bison
Because you like hearing static?
No Mike, just a sarcastic point that I'm frustrated. Haven't even made one trip down the track since getting this thing put together. Got some time this month to do something and thought it would all be together but it's not. I'll be in St. Louis for most of the month of August and then up to Granbury the first week of September for a 407 transition. Oh well, it ain't going anywhere
Just wait for my next wagon build update... then you'll hear frustration.
Get out and crank up the 49. You might like it. ;)