IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: Drivehard on December 29 2014, 12:09:07 AM
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I installed a 3.8 out of a 1987 Century in a sand rail I built for my kids for Christmas. I know they are not exactly the same as the gn but very close. 100% disclosure, I bought the motor clutch and adapter. He had lost the wiring harness and computer. (I know about the megasquirt and I can not afford that set up). I bought a wiring harness from an 87 turbo car. Both pin outs are the same on the diagrams I got from all data pro. Bought a reman 1227783 ecm (and an ebay used one with the prom) The cam sensor is new Crank sensor is new Ignition control module is new I have no spark. At all I have power and ground at the ignition module. Power and ground at cam and crank I ran all the ignition switched wires to a fuse block that is turned on and off via a relay. I ran all the grounds to the negitive side of the battery. I can not for the life of me figure this out. I just went through the entire wiring harness and can not find any problems with the wires or where they are ran.
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Looking at the wiring diagram there is a small sign on the top of the ignition control module that says C3I and a ground symbol. Does this mean the case should be grounded? It is on the bracket on top of the head but not sure it would get ground there as that bracket is painted.
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First thing I think is that you went to battery. Is there a ground strap from battery to block?
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I was starting to wonder that. There is a ground strap to the frame. The frame of corse is steel and the motor mounts as well as transmission mounts are solid metal welded to the frame. I am headed to napa this am to buy another ground to run to the block.
When I went through the wiring last night I changed the grounds to go to the block and frame anyway.
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Grounds redone, one to the block one to the frame.
Pins I deleted when installing
A1, A5, A7, A8, A9, A10
B8, B10 (not sure if it needs to be grounded so it's still long enough)
C7, C8
D2 ,D3, D5, D9
Maybe I screwed up doing something there?
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There is a fellow that goes by salvagev6 over on tb.com he is very good with electric on these cars. You might pm him over there and see what he has to say.
I'm guessing you have been over to gnttype.org and vortexbuick.co m and looked over the diagrams.
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I will. Thank you
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I sent him a pm. Thank you.
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Can you do the paper clip thing on the ALDL and see if you have any codes (bulb pulse) or not to at least tell the ECM is alive?
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Yes. I left a wire for that sort of test. This may sound dumb but I go to positive with on side and to pin 5 with the other correct? I don't have the actual ALDL
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The paper clip thing pulls it to ground I believe
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D5 is CCCI bypass?
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(http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/ecmwiring2.jpg)
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Quoting Jim Testa:
3) If the car didnt kick, I'll yank a plug wire and see if I got spark. If I got no spark, then I'll check also for inj pulse using a noid light. If I have neither its usually due to a dead crank sensor. If I have no spark, but I have injector pulse, its usually a module.
-'course you have a couple more variables in here...
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When you say module, what are we talking? The module under the coil pack?
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Sorry I messed up when typing that. I did not mean 5 I ment 4. Thank you guys for the help. I seriously think this is the must frustrating thing I have ever done.
Let's try this again..... Deleted pin are
D2 low speed fan
B8 a/c
D11 steering
A2 ac
A8 data
A9 diagnostic
A7 trans
C8 trans
C7 trans
B10 park netural ????? Still there (ground this or no)
A10 speed sensor
C9 cruise
A3 canister
A4 EGR
D9 EGR
A5 engine light
A1 fuel pump
Anything look wrong?
The module and coilpack are both new.
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Sorry I messed up when typing that. I did not mean 5 I ment 4. Thank you guys for the help. I seriously think this is the must frustrating thing I have ever done.
Let's try this again..... Deleted pin are
D2 low speed fan
B8 a/c
D11 steering
A2 ac
A8 data
A9 diagnostic
A7 trans
C8 trans
C7 trans
B10 park netural ????? Still there (ground this or no)
A10 speed sensor
C9 cruise
A3 canister
A4 EGR
D9 EGR
A5 engine light
A1 fuel pump
Anything look wrong?
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Ok we are back from new years and I am back at it. Went and got myself a noid light set today. Checked 3 injectors andddd NOTHING!! I have tested to make sure the module (below the coils) is getting power. I ran a 10g wire from the block to one of the studs on the bottom of the module to make sure it is grounded. I turn the ignition on and the check engine light comes on. It has a brand new crank sensor.
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As I said before, that points to either the crank sensor (check that it is mounted in the correct slot and clearanced properly) or the module. Some aftermarket modules will not work. The Wells is the worst of the lot for not being any good if reputation means anything.
Also check the wiring between the crank sensor and the module.
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I turn the ignition on and the check engine light comes on. It has a brand new crank sensor.
New doesn't equal working. Maybe a known good sensor. Anyone to pirate some stuff to see if yours works.
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I may be wrong but doesn't A1 close the fuel pump relay when energized allowing power to go the injectors?
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I may be wrong but doesn't A1 close the fuel pump relay when energized allowing power to go the injectors?
No-see the diagram. Pretty sure the non turbo has the same routing
http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/fuel_pump.htm (http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/fuel_pump.htm)
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yep I was wrong
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As I said before, that points to either the crank sensor (check that it is mounted in the correct slot and clearanced properly) or the module. Some aftermarket modules will not work. The Wells is the worst of the lot for not being any good if reputation means anything.
Also check the wiring between the crank sensor and the module.
And scrape the paint off of the module bracket where it grounds to the engine and module, ensure that there is a good ground path all the way through. I remember a number of guys powder coating the brackets and losing spark. Check for resistance through the assembly to ensure it is within spec.
I've added dielectric grease and additional grounds here as well - still on my original module.
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Well I got the gm wiring schematic book that was supplied to the dealers in 1987. Turns out everything is exactly the same.... Except the cam sensor. These motors have a small cam sensor that goes in the front of the block just above the crank sensor.
I changed the wiring to match and I now have spark and injector pulse.
Thank you guys for all your help.