IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: Pyro6 on August 25 2013, 06:40:00 PM
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First time this weekend we were at the track since June. The car til than was running flawlessly, if we could've dialed an 11.40 all would be right with the world. We've been mostly doing car/truck shows this summer cause Maple Grove has a busy schedule other than points races, end of June early July I have a busy fireworks schedule. So, this weekend after all the employee BS is ironed out, I saw a track opportunity Fri.-Sun. Friday = Test and tune, Sat. Sun = points race. I figured I'd unload the car Fri night and be ready to go. 1st pass is a 12.23 and the car didn't feel right at all. Hooked up the computer and the PL settings all read default. That's happened before, so I figured glad I'm here doing what I'm, doing, shoulda been better prepared :013: . Reset and run. Next 3 passes were back to 11.5 and 6X, car felt good for a Friday night, usually damp with minimal track prep. Went back up to the lanes after the final run to pick up my buddy, as I was idling and waiting for a few minutes, the car starts searching at idle and stalls. We head back to the trailer and it shuts off prob 15 times, didn't think I was gonna make it. It acted like TPS or MAP, so I quickly thru my spares at it and nothing changed: stall after start, baby the throttle to run, try to accelerate and it would die. It was late, and thank goodness racing didn't start til 10 Sat AM. After I IV'd my coffee for the morning, got the computer out and discovered #2 setting went to 30, usually 125. So I readjust it, car does the same thing. Go thru the rest of the list, #9 is reading 30 also. Reset it and all was good. Drove around the pits and felt normal. We're gonna race today!!. Thomas puts in 2 good time shots. We're in the lanes for eliminations, one of the track crew walks by, see's our 11.50 dial and no rollbar and says to me: cutting it close aren't you? I say yea, but really don't want to put a bar in it. He says I understand and moves on. We make the run, lose on an 11.496 @11.50 dial. Call it a night. Next day Thomas techs, gets the word: slow it down or get a bar. We've been running low 11.4's for awhile and not gotten any grief. Our time shots in the AM are 11.4's but til the car heats up and the sun gets warm, we're usually high 11.4's. That lets the door open for Thomas to adjust. I figure for Sunday I'll just back the boost controller and we'll run 11.8 or 11.9 from my notes. Salt in the wound though: we only get one time shot. The car didn't like that pass at all: detonation and 14.XXX (boost controller wasn't happy)??. Put the controller back to where it's been, minus a turn, figured we're gonna lose or get thrown out. We dial 11.55, come in at 11.56, lose at the tree. Thomas beats himself up and we review from the Jr. days how when changes to the car are necessary, chances of winning the race are minimized. Bottom line: how can only 2 settings change on a PL setup. If just cleaning the board connections are the answer, PL is gonna be history. If I have a bad PL, I may consider getting a replacement.
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Voltage glitch??
Not the Pl, pretty sure
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Than how can it only lose two settings? Plus 3 good runs prior and another good run after. I trust my alt. guy, I'll test all + -. Two settings??? :013:
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seen it happen without a PL...but I won't argue
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How old is your battery?
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One year
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Paul, didn't you have one for sale???
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had a classic B2B ..its gone already
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I 'm starting to think these ecm/logger/translator combos need an independent tank circuit to power them.
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I 'm starting to think these ecm/logger/translator combos need an independent tank circuit to power them.
Why do you think it is the battery or the alternator?
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A tank circuit would isolate the ECM (et al) supply from any dropouts,
eliminate the power as a source of "glitches".
If "glitches are getting backfed from the injector drivers etc then it likely won't help.
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What I don't understand is if it was a ground or feed issue, how it only affected two settings. Even if it was a spike from alt. inject. or other solenoid you would think it would affect everything. But as electronics go, anythings possible. I wonder how many other people have had this problem. Some kind of isolation diode might be more the solution???
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the prom has a bunch of programmable addresses and all it takes is a weak spot in chip, one too many touches with a finger that has not been grounded to remove static electricity, a slightly dirty contact, ad infinitum.
If you have a chip that can be programmed from PL then maybe a connection or glitch in that circuit might do it.
Go talk to Eric. Tell him you don't trust the chip, and see what he can do for you.
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Good plan. I do want to double check all the power and grounds and charging system before I get with Eric. I run the speed density chip. Thanks again for your help Steve.
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so do I and I have seen a change once or twice but nothing that I could call frequent. It did not affect the entire chip, was only a couple of locations as I recall.
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Damn You!! My car is acting up and acting like it was running out of fuel. After cussing a lot and getting ready to drop the tank, I noticed Pos #1 was reading 0 instead of 128. Not sure if that was the problem or not. Not sure because it seemed to run okay for a few miles and then start cutting out. then appear to be ok until I drove it a bit again.
Least I plugged the fuel pressure sender back into power so it works again and I am not flying blind on fuel pressure ....
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remember my nephew was sitting in the passenger side seat when I first noticed a problem...wond ered if he had kicked the PL cable and moved the board a bit...went out and pulled the ecm out and wiggled the board around....reme mbered your query about PL and remembered that it could cause problems with a flickering ses light at times but I did not have that problem...but maybe it caused a reset? got me but I guess proof will be in the puddin'
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Looks like it may have been that...first time I have seen everything work-correct readings, no flickering check engine or mal code...just a changed cell number...
Drove it 25 miles without a miss...I guess we shall see how it goes
After saying it would not be the PL board, I think I stand corrected!
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I asked Eric on his site and he seemed certain it was the PL board connection as I suspected when it happened. Funny you should say your nephew was in the front seat cause I thought it peculiar one of my Buick sidekicks was in the front seat several times that night, I would pick him up at the lanes after each pass. He's a fairly big dude too. Usually Thomas goes to the lanes, makes a pass and goes right back to the pit. The wife and I usually walk, getting our exercise 1/4 mile at a time. I guess we'll see at Cecil.
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It sure did some strange things and then would appear to run properly afterward...st ill don't understand why it basically refused to run at all one day after a few miles...run for a couple of seconds and quit...and then three days later crank up and run like there was no problem...but
musta just been borderline on the connection-live and learn...I hope on both ends of that equation :D
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This is the kind of thing I was referring to earlier, it makes it real difficult to be competitive when some of this issues arise out of nowhere. I've been wrenching long enough to know that any vehicle can have issues, but these things seem to be excessive. I've had my '69 442 since 1975 and it only let me sit one time!!!
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I would have thought the largest problem would be cutting a good light with a turbo car....this other stuff is more or less racing. the faster you go, the more problems you have and the more it costs to fix them in my experience.
Go find Paul and ask him to put an XFI system on it and then tune if for you. Eliminate all this side stuff :) Be cheaper than taking a loss on the investment
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Paul and I have been talking, and if I keep racing this thing, I think it's the only way to go. As far as cutting lights, I learned early on to stage by RPM and don't worry about boost. It seems to keep us consistent and we're usually .020 or less. The night it acted up, the last pass I cut an .008. One thing I like about the car, it launches nice. I loosened the convertor in the off season, Thomas has had a difficult adjusting but doing OK.
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the whole powerlogger package in my opionion was done poorly
may have been fine on a bench but in a car that moves or hits bumps or has passengers it has much room for improvement
i never liked the pc cable sticking out into the floor well where any passenger can hit the pc cable with their foot and damage the usb socket, and the straight plug PC mouse socket aux cable jammed in there and the fact that those types of connections are fragile and non locking is rediculous when you consider that thats your wideband input and for a wideband controlled car that could be disasterous to loose the aux connection during a pass
and the pc edge board is on the base of the ecu subjected to movement on bumps ,
i would have like to have seen the pc and the aux come off the powerlogger board inside the ecm and routed out the top of the case
would have liked to see either the outer edge of the pc encased in plastic with holes to screw it firm to the base of the ecu rather than a little square of double stick
when i install them i scrape all connectionmpad s on the ecu with a razor , position and clearance the pc cable opening so it isnt going to get stressed , screw the ecu to the plastic cover (at the sides) so it cant move around , drill some holes up the side and secure the aux cable to the cover with zipties so it cant get popped or plulled out while your moving it around and make sure the cover is secured
install the aux block to the back of glove box and drill holes in the back of glove box for zipties to secure the aux cable and all the wires routed to the block
gary if i were you i would move the ecu to behind the glove box and make a couple straps (or duct tape ) to keep the pl board secured to the ecu
and on the other subject ..with boost controlled and rpm controlled launch my car can leave 60s within .006 , and with tbrake im im right on the tree usually 20 and single digit but there are the -001 to -007 red when the pressure is on.
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I'm with you there. Way too many post of guys "adjusting" their PL and problems go away.
Temping to remove the connector and soldering on the PL, then enclosing the whole thing in metal.
Galvanic isolator module on the USB might not be bad either along with a tank circuit on the powerleads.