IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: Bob-Lob-Law on July 13 2013, 06:25:39 PM
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I installed the Hydroboost as per the links and vids that were posted here. I bled all the breaks as well as the master cylinder by doing a gravity bleed and the old pump and hold. However, my pedal goes all the way to the floor. I thought that it would stiffin up after I bled everything, however no matter what it still goes all the way to the floor. I also made sure that the rear brakes were set properly. No matter how much I bleed the brakes, the pedal goes to the floor.
As always, I would greatly appreciate any help.
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did it bleed correctly when you did the old pump the pedal method?
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Yes, although I didn't see much if any air at all. I also made sure that I tightened up the fitting while there was fluid still coming out.
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the master cant bleed by gravity , it needs to be bench bled , can do on car but bore has to be level to do that
also make sure the output rod is still there between the master and the hydro unit
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Roger, I'll get the MC bled as soon as I can. Man, that's going to be a mess.
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Not necessarily... so, as Paul says, you did not bleed the mc before installing it, that is a major no-no.
Two ways to do it. Most master cylinders, when purchased, come with a couple of fittings that screw into the ports and curl back into the reservoir and submerge in the fluid in the reservoir. YOu pump until you have a solid stream going up the tubes and into the reservoir without any air bubbles in the reservoir at the end of the tubes.
I think that might be the best way unless you have a pressure bleeder to force the fluid thru the cylinder from the reservoir side. If you did not get those fittings, you can probably pick them up at the parts store?
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Oh, yeah...take it off the car and put it in a vise so its level....here is one link but you can find many if you look http://www.superchevy.com/technical/chassis/brakes/0509sc_bench/ (http://www.superchevy.com/technical/chassis/brakes/0509sc_bench/)
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Ok, I was bleeding the MC while it was on the car and the pedal feels like it is getting a lot stiffer. There must be a metric ton of air in there. I'll be bleeding them for a while.
Thanks for all the support.
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Steve, just read your post. Yeah, I did the major no no. I'll get that taken off and done properly tomorrow.
Thanks again. Yeah, I'm that slow learner. Plus being the major geek doesn't help either.
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no need for tubes , they include plastic plugs now to bench bleed
thread them in tight
put enough fluid in reservior to keep bores covered
with master bore level ..they suggest putting master into a bench vise but i just prop the end against a wall
depress the piston slowly (dont want a million little air bubbles in the fluid ), repeat until the bubbles all come out into the reservior , you can alternate holding one end a litlle high then the other
once the fluid flows without any bubbles its ready to install
install master and install front and rear brake lines
with someone in car break loose one fitting at master and have them very slowly push pedal in allowing bubbles in fluid to come out at fittings , tighten and repeat for other fitting
if you didnt take any other part of the brake system apart that would usually be it.
you should have a good pedal
if you cracked the lines at prop or wheels you will need to bleed the system entirely.
a power bleeder would be easiest and even though i have one of those i still do most system bleeds using the mity vac hand pump bleeder at each wheel.
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If you do it the way Paul described above, the rod that you are using to pump the piston with (something like a big phillips screwdriver will work) will get very firm when the air is out.
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yep should get firm , if it wont get firm off car it wont get better on the car and would indicate a bad master
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Just out of curiosity, did you get a new or remanned master?
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Roger all. Thanks for the step by step. I'll get that done.
@Charlief1, it was a reman.
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BTW, Steve, I have been running the car a couple of times and she is purring like a kitten. She is really sounding nice. I'll post my scanmaster readings here sometime next week.
YOU are the MAN! :cheers:
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That's great news, Bob! I am happy to hear things are going well. These things are like women...either pure pleasure or total frustration :)
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Well if you bench bleed it and still have issues take the master back and get a new one. I refuse to use remanned master cylinders anymore because of all the issues I've had with them over the years. I had 1 on a chevy truck and went through 3 before I spent the extra $ and bought a new one. The remans these days are a big crap shoot for some reason. :013:
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unfortunately are the new ones made overseas....se ems about 50-50 either way you go in my experience
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I may be foolish, but if there's an ACDelco option for a part, I will buy it over almost any other brand.
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made in China...hopefu lly better inspected
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made in China...hopefu lly better inspected
That's really all you can hope for these days, is somewhat more consistent quality control with brands.
That, and Amazon carries almost all ACDelco for cheap, if there's a problem, just ask for a return. They will pick it up and refund the payment when the driver puts it on the truck. Amazing.
Aha! New slogan! "This is Amazing! No, it's Amazon!"
/me sends a few SASE to Jeff Bezos for the royalty checks.
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definetly should get solid pedal once the air is out. you are sucking air somewheres.
I've never really seen a need for the gravity bleed method either.
Just grab a helper thats good at following orders. :D
may also try lightly tapping the mc with a hammer while your bleeding it.
I've also found it helpful to tap the proportioning valve a few times when bleeding.
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Consider one thing: if you didn't bench bleed the master cylinder, the reason it's a no-no as Steve said, now you have air helter skelter thru the system, it can get trapped anywhere. Sounds like you're chasing the air. I just dealt with it on a customer vehicle from rusted brake lines that leaked and ran the system dry. Stay in a complete system bleed: 3 very slow pumps at each point, rr-lr-rf- lf ending with both master cylinder lines. If no air at the point your bleeding, move on but you may have to come back several times thru the complete cycle. Also, if you have been trying to fudge thru a broken or clogged bleeder, fix them before you do anything. My experience has been: very rarely has the new MC been the problem. If it bench bleeds ok its an air chaser scenario. Like has been said, you may have to tap the MC due to it's steep angle, or even jack up the car excessively to get either the calipers or wheel cylinders higher. This thread caught my attention from some recent jobs. Another nightmare I had was a Ranger clutch master cylinder. TSB's and all the tech support I have suggested bout 4 different ways to bleed this system. Been thru all the stuff here and pulled the lines, reservoir and cylinder to the bench as an assembly. It has a quick connect valve at the slave cylinder so you bench bleed that mess, depress the spring loaded valve with a phillips at the end of the line, plug it in and go. That cost me bout 8 hours on a .9 job because: bad cylinder from the start. I figured it out by testing everything on the bench. The original cylinder only did it intermittently but did have a low pedal. I couldn't get any resistance for shit from the new cylinder, plugged in the old cylinder and was tons better. I got another new cylinder, bench bled it and watta a difference. Plugged it in and all was good. My point is, like Charlie and Steve suggested, it may be a China product. Doing this stuff for a living it's what I deal with all the time. We spend more time wondering if it is a bad brand new part or is it something else? Important to know theory and procedures. Good luck. I'm going back under my shell.
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I bled on the car when I did mine. My helpers listen as well as I do so I always throw a 2x4 behind the pedal to keep the pedal pusher from pushing it down all the way.
Mine had a lot of nasty fluid so it got a full on flush and in with new. One day I hope to own a cool siphon tool but until then I feed/clothe/house the helper so they can be a helper when I need one.
Glad you got yours going.
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definetly should get solid pedal once the air is out. you are sucking air somewheres.
I've never really seen a need for the gravity bleed method either.
Just grab a helper thats good at following orders. :D
may also try lightly tapping the mc with a hammer while your bleeding it.
I've also found it helpful to tap the proportioning valve a few times when bleeding.
One thing I have found is that gravity bleeding acts as priming the system, fills in the big air gaps. But yea, finish with a brake pedal depressor or some hot chick in a bikini. If she's blond it might take longer. Redhead....... ...
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bikini works. :icon_lol:
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the actron kit is cheap enough ,works well and its the one i usually grab, gets used almost daily
http://www.amazon.com/Actron-CP7835-Vacuum-Brake-Bleed/dp/B0007VT4RC (http://www.amazon.com/Actron-CP7835-Vacuum-Brake-Bleed/dp/B0007VT4RC)
also makes it easy to vac the old fluid from reservoirs, rather than mix the junk with new fluid when full bleeding the system
i have this but it usually sits on the shelf for abs systems
http://www.jegs.com/i/Phoenix-Systems/596/2001/10002/-1?parentProductI d=1580478 (http://www.jegs.com/i/Phoenix-Systems/596/2001/10002/-1?parentProductId=1580478)
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mine has got way more use when I overfill my transmission fluid, like a dumb-ass :icon_eyes:
works great for sucking it back out the fill tube