IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: tb3 on February 11 2013, 11:23:18 AM
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I know this has been beat into the dirt.
but I wanted to get a little extra assurance before I pitch my aftermarket oil cooler.
I installed the f body radiator long ago. I eliminated the stock oil cooler and installed a aftermarket one at the same time since the f body doesn't have the extra cooler built-in.
I've just installed new body bushings along with alot of other work, including removing and painting the fillers, so now is it good time to ditch the aftermarket cooler since I've got the front all opened up.
I know its not hurting anything, and I run the bigger filter also, with 160t, so I'm thinking get rid of the dead weight.
I remember reading one of the many debates awhile back and grumpy pointing out he doesn't run one either.
ed, steve, earl, grumpy, pacecarta, turbo dave, etc etc.....lol!
tell me I'll be ok so I can sleap better tonight. unless I shouldn't get rid of it, of course.
and no, I don't want a alum radiator with both coolers built in like the stock one if I don't need it.
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The answer is simple. If you're overheating your oil under load, you need an oil cooler. :D
What's your oil temp under load?
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I don't run one on the auto-x course. Just good oil and go. Oil has come a long way in the last 25 years.
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The bottom of Lake Ontario is littered with oil cooler adaptors and GEN 2's that I've thrown into it over the years. I give the intercooler fans to the kids to use as frisbees.
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i dont run them
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The answer is simple. If you're overheating your oil under load, you need an oil cooler. :D
What's your oil temp under load?
I don't know.
I never bothered to add a oil temp guage, just a oil pressure guage. but I see your point.
If I'm concerned, I should have a oil temp guage!
I guess I just rely on the basis that if my water temps are always in check, and I never notice any turbo problems (coking), then whats the point of a oil cooler in my application?
I've wondered to myself....what s the differance between the oil system on 86/87 na engines and the t charged ones?
the turbocharged ones have a line to and from the turbocharger that cool/lubricate its bearing.
thats pretty much it, correct?
none of the 78-85 turbocharged 3.8's had the oil cooler. and I'm not aware of any of them having oil heat problems.
I guess you will have oil heat problems if you run the car hard in hot temps, and then shut it down without letting it idle first. but then what good is a oil cooler gonna do you if you don't let the car idle/cool?
I pulled the aftermarket cooler this evening.
thanks guys for replys!
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I've wondered to myself....what s the differance between the oil system on 86/87 na engines and the t charged ones?
the turbocharged ones have a line to and from the turbocharger that cool/lubricate its bearing.
thats pretty much it, correct?
none of the 78-85 turbocharged 3.8's had the oil cooler. and I'm not aware of any of them having oil heat problems.
I guess you will have oil heat problems if you run the car hard in hot temps, and then shut it down without letting it idle first. but then what good is a oil cooler gonna do you if you don't let the car idle/cool?
I pulled the aftermarket cooler this evening.
thanks guys for replys!
the N/A engines make about 100HP using all 6 holes. That load is spread out over all the mains and all the rod bearings....
A hot GN makes almost that much power (heat) per hole. All that load is one one rod bearing. And yes, the turbo is introducing head into the oil as well. The bottoms of pistons make pretty good oil heaters too.
Keep in mind that water only cools the engine down to just below the head gasket. Everything below that is cooled by oil. On the stock GN, the factory oil cooler was also an oil heater when cold.
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I don't see a valid reason to NOT run one, at least for 98% of people.
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awesome info, earl!!! thank you!!
another question.
Is there anybody thats ran a temp guage before and after the stock oil cooler to see how effective it is?
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No one...and I mean no one...pounds on their junk weekend after weekend more than I do. When i leave the line my oil pressure is 25 lbs...and when I finish the run...it's 25 lbs. That should tell you something. Change your oil/filter on a regular basis...and get a good nites sleep.
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thanks scoobum! :rock:
hey do I read correctly that you don't use the intercooler crankshaft fan? I can understand getting rid of it with a front mount, but are you saying you see them worthless with a slic also?
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Nope...don't use the fan either...and I drive my car all over the place.
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I guess another data I'd like to see is how effective that fan on a slic is then
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awesome info, earl!!! thank you!!
another question.
Is there anybody thats ran a temp guage before and after the stock oil cooler to see how effective it is?
Actually the stock oil cooler is more like a temp stabilizer. Our cars came with a 195* thermostat so if the oil is 200* it's really not going to get cooled any. Since water temps come up faster than oil, the stock 'cooler' will actually help get the oil up to temp faster (same for the transmission)
Funny you should mention the testing. I have a box of badass precision temp sending harness that I built a while back for my solar projects. They have pretty quick response time and accurate to .1 degree. (really cool actually. They can run off of anything form 3VDC to 36VDC and the temp output is 10mv per degree. Nice and linear) You can make remote temp thermometers with a cheap ass DVM and a 9volt battery :)
Turns out they are PERFECT for temp logging on a car. As soon as I realized that, it started raining, then it got cold as hell....
Powerlogger only has two aux inputs so I can graph before/afters with oil, IATs, trans fluid, whatever I want. I hope I can get three of them running at once so I can do temp rejection tests and have one in the grill to give me an ambient reading so I can account for deltaT.
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if you've already got the gear, that would be awesome to see some data on that ! :rock:
I thought about grabbing the laser heat gun from work just for poops and giggles and see what that would tell me, but given I'm only getting the temp of the hose or tube and not the oil, I know it wouldn't be incredibly accurate.
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Our cars originally came with 180 deg thermostats altho I have heard a couple of people claim their cars had a 195. Neither bought their car new, however. On the other hand, it is true that the oil cooler location makes it a stabilizer as much as anything. Oil will be close to water temp and when you run it really hard, it will raise the water temp. On my GN, I found the water temp to run about 10-12 degs hotter in the summer on a big three pass aluminum radiator when I used the internal cooler for oil than it did otherwise. Normal was about 175 without the cooler.
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Earl: sounds like LM35DZ ?
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if you've already got the gear, that would be awesome to see some data on that ! :rock:
I thought about grabbing the laser heat gun from work just for poops and giggles and see what that would tell me, but given I'm only getting the temp of the hose or tube and not the oil, I know it wouldn't be incredibly accurate.
The IR guns really don't lend themselves to stuff like that other than verifying your car's not overheating with a faulty gauge says it is.. That being said I got one of those guns for like $15 off Ebay out of china and it outperforms the hell out a friends Matco and Snap-On units. I use that thing several times a day on goofy stuff around the house. Best 15 clams I ever spent. It's great for checking hottub temps and judging with the frydaddy is ready for hushpuppy mix!
Earl: sounds like LM35DZ ?
It's one of those in that family. I bought a bad of which ever ones are calibrated in C, and built the cables. Then tore apart a VCR for parts and made a small automated comparator circuit to compare my solar roof heater to my hottub temp and run pumps off of a car battery. They units calibrated for F work a lot better for what I was doing but they're like 5 times the money.
It didn't work as well as I thought it would. Turns out I think I needed an OP-AMP for a comparator instead of using an actual comparator IC. The sun melted my piping in the roof heater last spring so now It's an air heater sending 149F air into my living room with a desk fan :)
(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/397728_2880022441677_515933160_n.jpg)
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Holy cow! that things melted all to hell! :O
well.... at work, we have not only a snap-on, but we have TWO snap-on temp guns! :rofl:
one is the single laser pointer, and the other uses a "pattern" of pointers and does a average.
but no doubt for what they are, as long as the calibration is correct, no need for name brand for a temp gun.
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Just for kicks if you shine that hi-dollar Snap-on at something hot and shiny, does it read way wrong? My $15 unit is dead on the money but my friends Snap-On is way off on anything semi-shiny.
I can even read the upper atmosphere with mine!
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the only time I dont get as accurate of a reading is when I am pointing it at a angle other than 90 degrees. I always try and point it straight-on to a flat surface so less chance of deflecting away the return.
I really only use one when I'm powdercoating or when I'm checking to make sure all the Infrared heaters way up high on the hangar grid are working
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The more expensive heat guns have adjustable emissivity settings where as the cheap ones don't are are fixed.