IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: phil_long on October 14 2012, 10:28:59 AM
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Starting a new thread because I dont want to stuff too much info in one. This thread is going to be about my attempt at WOT. Anywho, the TPS voltage at WOT checks out at 4.3 after adjusting the TV cable. I attempted WOT last night on the way home from the bowling alley. I noticed that the max boost my car is running right now about 11-12 lbs. I looked at the gauge like WTF?? When i first installed this chip I know for sure that my car was making 17 lbs because I vividly remember looking at my boost gauge fly to 17 lbs instantly and it scared me. Lol. Sooo, Im assuming I unplugged something when installing the T-Stat. Going out now to find what could possibly be the problem. Keep you posted.
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Found the problem. :D
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The wastegate Solenoid had gotten unpluggeed. :hmm Thats what I get for working in the dark. I have question though. Because I went WOT with that being unplugged, wouldn't my car have run a bit richer? I mean, the chip was designed for 17 lbs of boost, and with that being unplugged, it was only making 11-12 lbs. My 3rd gear WOT 02's were really low(730) but i let out of it. I had no knock during the pull though. Well, the knock showed .2 but quickly subsided. Any thoughts?
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The car was holding back so much I felt like I was in prision. And, it just drove differently. No more changing parts in the dark for Phil Jordan. Promise!! :cool;
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I would have thought that it would have been rich...
Is the boost coming up now? Re check it and be prepared to let off if the o2s are still low...fuel pressure should be 43 with the hose off...that where you have it after all the playing?
If it is, then you might reprogram the wide open throttle and change the setting from 128 to 134 before you go wot again
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Phil, have you replaced the 3 rubber hoses wastegate solenoid circuit yet?
If not, you REALLY need to before doing anymore WOT tuning.
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I would have thought that it would have been rich...
Is the boost coming up now? Re check it and be prepared to let off if the o2s are still low...fuel pressure should be 43 with the hose off...that where you have it after all the playing?
If it is, then you might reprogram the wide open throttle and change the setting from 128 to 134 before you go wot again
43 psi line off. And yes, the boost is coming up like it's suppose to. 1st gear reading after a little run just now was 824 for the O2's and zero knock. I know 1st gear isn't as critical, but its all I have for now because Im not in a good area to test 3rd WOT runs.
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Phil, have you replaced the 3 rubber hoses wastegate solenoid circuit yet?
If not, you REALLY need to before doing anymore WOT tuning.
Those hoses are in good condition. I checked those when I was redoing the vacuum lines. They still look good.
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The instructions say to set the FP +- 5 from 43 psi line off. I was thinking of increasing the FP for WOT through the Translator.
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I would have thought that it would have been rich...
Is the boost coming up now? Re check it and be prepared to let off if the o2s are still low...fuel pressure should be 43 with the hose off...that where you have it after all the playing?
If it is, then you might reprogram the wide open throttle and change the setting from 128 to 134 before you go wot again
And what setting are you referring to Steve? The BLM?
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134 would be a +4.7% increase in WOT fuel?
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Yes, looks like you are reading the instructions! If it was 824 in first, leave it alone and try it in third! 824 is on the rich side.
Leave the translator alone...that is why you have a programmable chip. Normally, it should be set on the default positions if the car is in good condition
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Yes, looks like you are reading the instructions! If it was 824 in first, leave it alone and try it in third! 824 is on the rich side.
Leave the translator alone...that is why you have a programmable chip. Normally, it should be set on the default positions if the car is in good condition
Ok cool. Keep you posted. And yes, I'm def reading instructions. Lol.
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one night in the dark I tried to adjust my translator.... ......
set it for the wrong MAF type was not a good idea :rofl:
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Phil...remembe r that when you were messing the fuel and the translator before, the engine was not right due to the timing gear so set the translator to the defaults and try not to change it unless you are unable to get it right with the chip
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one night in the dark I tried to adjust my translator.... ......
set it for the wrong MAF type was not a good idea :rofl:
I can only imagine the outcome
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Phil...remembe r that when you were messing the fuel and the translator before, the engine was not right due to the timing gear so set the translator to the defaults and try not to change it unless you are unable to get it right with the chip
I'll double check the settings, but im almost sure they are at the default settings. I'll let you know sir!!
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Im so tempted to record a video of a WOT pull.(not 3rd gear though) Idk why the idea of WOT in 3rd gear scares me so.
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Nothing to be afraid of....just watch the timing retard and let off if you see any and see what the 02s were at that point
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I've been getting use to my car lately. I did a short WOT test in third gear last night. I forgot to drop it in drive but I didnt stay in it for long anyway because I was exiting. I got an O2 reading of 785 with .2 KR. And, for the record, my car isn't as impressive pulling in 3rd gear as it is 1st and 2nd. Feels like it wants to rip my head off in 1st in 2nd. Lol. Im guessing it's because Im not making the power that YOU guys are making huh? :D Just thought I'd share.
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third gear does not offer the gear multiplication of first and second plus it takes a lot more hp to push the car thru the air the faster it is going.
You might add two numbers to the wot programming for a little more insurance.
How much boost was it showing?
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i think 15? i only glanced. I'll check again. first gear its running super rich
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850?
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850?
Somewhere around there. last i checked it was 867, but im assuming it was due to it being cooler outside? Idk man. These cars are weird. Lol.
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But please note that I never stay in it. Lol. Maybe that could be the issue? Maybe it would spike that high and then fall??
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Im thinking maybe one you gents on here can come to St. Louis and get her together. She runs great, but tuning 101 is in effect.
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Okay, the factory o2 is totally non linear, but, that qualifies for super rich....
If the fuel pressure is at 43 with the hose removed from the regulator, I would suggest going to the Translator and see if it is set as per the instructions. If it is, adjust the maf base knob to the lean setting for the size translator you have installed.
That means if you have a 3" diameter maf sensor, it should be set on position 3 on the maf base knob. Change it to position 5 which is leaner
Now, for the 3" sensor, the maf wot setting knob should be set on pos 0. Change it to pos 3. that makes it richer to make up for making everything leaner on the new maf base setting.
Dipswitches should be on, on, on, off for a TT chip
If you have a 3.5" maf, or the two knobs were different to what I assumed above, let me know
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I'll check the translator settings when i get home. :atbeer:
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Side note: this punk A** GTO was driving next to me last night. Loud exhaust that was popping when he wasnt under acceleration(weird and annoying). It was the 6.0 version(no way im racing this dude). I know im still in the process of tuning and getting the car running to the point that I wont be scared of nobody. I know i cant win em all, but the confidence I have at the stop light i want on the highway from 60 mph. :rock:
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you should probably be able to beat him
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Hey guys(Steve), before I make the adjustments you suggested, I want to elaborate on another WOT pull. This morning coming into work, i had to go around some traffic(sitting still at a green light :013: so i went around them) the O2's showed 769 then went up to 802. I hate to make adjustments when the car doesn't do the same thing everytime. Am I worrying over nothing? Sometimes it seems sluggish, and sometimes it don't. Lol. My bad for the rant and potential unnecessary worries, but i just wanna be sure everything is all good. Maybe I'll dbl check to be sure that the FP is rising with boost like it's suppose to. It was last time i checked, but i havent checked since installing these injectors and TT chip. :icon_neutral:
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And I might be paranoid. BUT, i will check the things you suggested. had parent teacher conferences yesterday so i didnt have time. Today I will for sure have time before I head out to bowling. And, i honestly dont think I would run with any V8 on the highway right now. From a stop light im all for it, but i hate losing, and didnt wanna risk it seeing that im still tuning.
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Hey guys(Steve), before I make the adjustments you suggested, I want to elaborate on another WOT pull. This morning coming into work, i had to go around some traffic(sitting still at a green light :013: so i went around them) the O2's showed 769 then went up to 802. I hate to make adjustments when the car doesn't do the same thing everytime. Am I worrying over nothing? Sometimes it seems sluggish, and sometimes it don't. Lol. My bad for the rant and potential unnecessary worries, but i just wanna be sure everything is all good. Maybe I'll dbl check to be sure that the FP is rising with boost like it's suppose to. It was last time i checked, but i havent checked since installing these injectors and TT chip. :icon_neutral:
That was first gear BTW
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And my lazy ass still need to clean my air filter. :rolleyes;
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Either clean your air filter, or buy a new one....I doubt it is the filter because your third gear runs don't look rich...but, get the damn filter clean so we know there is one less thing to affect the situation.
When making a run, be sure the car is warmed up and your foot is on the floor all the way...none of these half azzed part throttle runs that some people love to make.
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Either clean your air filter, or buy a new one....I doubt it is the filter because your third gear runs don't look rich...but, get the damn filter clean so we know there is one less thing to affect the situation.
When making a run, be sure the car is warmed up and your foot is on the floor all the way...none of these half azzed part throttle runs that some people love to make.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Im one of those people. hahahahahahaha hahahahaha. Im sorry. Lmao. I got it though. I'll be back with real numbers next time. Im dying laughing.
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If it's a K&N, just throw it in the washing machine with the wife's unmentionables :)
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Im gullable when it come to shit like that. Lol. You cant really stick a KN in the washing machine can you? Lol.
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Not if your wife finds out your intention-thus the unmentionable part
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yall killin me. going to get the cleaner. last thing i need is her complaining about something about this buick. i had the injectors laying around for too long. thanks for the suggestions. i figured the unmentionables where the under garments. Lol
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...none of these half azzed part throttle runs that some people love to make.
I don't know what you mean, people actually do that???? It's an on/off switch I was told :D
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yep, it's a binary event
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Hey, i only do part throttle runs due to fear that something is gonna break. :D And, the specs on the 6.0L GTO are quite impressive. Im not in that league yet. But i plan to be soon!!
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specs don't mean much in many cases...
cannot tune the car at part throttle....th rottleblade may be half open limiting the amount of air going into the engine, but the chip looks at the load and dumps fuel thinking you got the pedal to the metal and it may then run rich because the ecm is confused.
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specs don't mean much in many cases...
cannot tune the car at part throttle....th rottleblade may be half open limiting the amount of air going into the engine, but the chip looks at the load and dumps fuel thinking you got the pedal to the metal and it may then run rich because the ecm is confused.
thats a great point. but im done with the part throttle crap. ima be a man and stand on it!! :icon_eyes: :D
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Your wife give you the go ahead? :D
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Your wife give you the go ahead? :D
For WOT or washing my K&N filter with her.....under garments? :D
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LOL
you get permission to wash it with her stuff, and you might as well take up walking on water...
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LOL
you get permission to wash it with her stuff, and you might as well take up walking on water...
:rofl:
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Your wife give you the go ahead? :D
priceless
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Now that the hot young things are out of my hottub and out of the house I can catch up on some reading...
K&N's are made out of cotton gauze. I've found the washing machine does a much better job than that goofy spritz bottle.
Just make sure not to go berserk with the oil. Since the filter is upstream of the MAF you want to coat the wires with oil. I don't think the new style LS1/LT1 filters are affected as much as the stock style though.
hahahahha, I just realized that your MAF has seen some action from two of the one's that just left!
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Now that the hot young things are out of my hottub and out of the house I can catch up on some reading...
Super priceless!!!
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And yes, I got the MAF you sent me so I should be good. Just throw it the wash tho right? No soap or anything like that? Im going for it!
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put some soap in there
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since it's made of cotton, pretend you're washing cotton :)
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cool
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Now that the hot young things are out of my hottub and out of the house I can catch up on some reading...
K&N's are made out of cotton gauze. I've found the washing machine does a much better job than that goofy spritz bottle.
Just make sure not to go berserk with the oil. Since the filter is upstream of the MAF you want to coat the wires with oil. I don't think the new style LS1/LT1 filters are affected as much as the stock style though.
hahahahha, I just realized that your MAF has seen some action from two of the one's that just left!
So the oil isn't mandatory or it is?
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yes, it is mandatory...ju st don't go nuts with it so it is sucked out of the filter and into the maf
A LIGHT coat
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I checked the base FP line off, and it was set at about 41 or so, so i increased it to what I believe to be 43 psi. The settings on the MAF translator were the way they should have been. I ended up adjusting them to Steve's suggestions. I did a few WOT pulls 1st-2nd gear. the numbers are really consistent. Im in the process of posting a video. I did a short WOT pull in 3rd on the highway and the O2's read at 792 with no knock. I think im almost getting there.
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Tuning the buick (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAwCUqKaYXs#)
Fast forward to 1:19
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I think Im going to get my tranny checked out. It slightly hesitated at the top of 1st, then when 2nd kicked in, it was really strong. The tranny was rebuilt back in 08 I believe, but due to me not knowing shit(no tranny cooler, stock radiator, bad thermostat) i think something may have happened. Idk. I could be reaching like always. And, i think i have a non locking converter. I do know its a 2400 stall
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Hopefully, you have a tranny guy that knows how to work on the Buick tranny, or you will probably end up worse off than you currently are. Your converter may not be locking, but, I doubt it is a non lock up converter...
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Hopefully, you have a tranny guy that knows how to work on the Buick tranny, or you will probably end up worse off than you currently are. Your converter may not be locking, but, I doubt it is a non lock up converter...
I do have one. The same guy who rebuilt it. It just wasnt taken care of, and I take responsibilty for it
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what do you think about the numbers so far?
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you need a no movement camera
best I could make out, it was a hair rich in low gear....790s in third is okay
I would not worry about messing with things at this point. Drive the car and enjoy it
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you need a no movement camera
best I could make out, it was a hair rich in low gear....790s in third is okay
I would not worry about messing with things at this point. Drive the car and enjoy it
Lol. Sorry. I couldnt hold it steady after hitting the throttle. Lol.
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After reading the instructions for my chip, it clearly states that adjusting the WOT fuel in the Translator will have no effect on this chip. I think im going to turn it back to zero and leave it
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If it has no effect, why bother?
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Lol. You suggested it. My dumb behind didnt read the instructions. Lol
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why bother changing it back to zero is what I meant...and you told me you were reading the instructions weeks ago! :D I don't use the regular chips so that is why I told you to read! We both learned something!
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How could it not not affect anything? If the translator lies to the ECM, how does it know to use the correct numbers instead of what it's being told?
I will say the same adjustment with the chip works better that adjusting the translator (on one car) with a commander chip. Not exactly a controlled scientifial experiment, but I never really figured that one out. And of course I lost interest when the car was running right.
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why bother changing it back to zero is what I meant...and you told me you were reading the instructions weeks ago! :D I don't use the regular chips so that is why I told you to read! We both learned something!
Good point. Lol. And, i was reading weeks ago, but the third line of instructions on the first page i failed to look over again. I was only worrying about the WOT programming for fuel. I have a selective attention span. Im working on getting that together. :icon_eyes:
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How could it not not affect anything? If the translator lies to the ECM, how does it know to use the correct numbers instead of what it's being told?
I will say the same adjustment with the chip works better that adjusting the translator (on one car) with a commander chip. Not exactly a controlled scientifial experiment, but I never really figured that one out. And of course I lost interest when the car was running right.
I was wondering the same thing but I dont question the guys who's known for getting things done! Lol. So I'll reset it and adjust my parameters accordingly again because my info was lost when i reset the ecm. :(
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again, I wonder why to reset it if your numbers looked okay the other day? I think you are a hypochondriac! I bet your wife tells you to get out of the house with your complaining and go out and talk to your car that cares!
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How could it not not affect anything? If the translator lies to the ECM, how does it know to use the correct numbers instead of what it's being told?
I will say the same adjustment with the chip works better that adjusting the translator (on one car) with a commander chip. Not exactly a controlled scientifial experiment, but I never really figured that one out. And of course I lost interest when the car was running right.
For some reason, I was thinking the wot translator dial only worked with Extreme chips, but, I may have created that thought myself. I am guessing that Eric ignores that input because he is using the chip to vary wot fueling. The wot dial applies a gradient to the base fuel curve whereas the TT chip does this in the ecm rather than from the maf numbers...agai n I think :)
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Lol. The only thing that I am going to change is the WOT in the chip because I believe it got reset when i reset the ECM. i have the translator set to lean MAF
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If I were doing it, I would look at the numbers and adjust accordingly
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I want to stop working on this car but i cant. :hmm Wife pissed me off last night(whole nother story) so i took a drive. For some reason, i cannot get my O2's up in third gear. SM showed zero knock but the O2's had dropped to 750 solid(WOT pull from 1st gear up to third). First gear was 820, dropped down to 806 throughout second, and by the top of second they were at 796. when the car shifted to 3rd they dropped to 760 then 750.
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Im going to redo my redone vacuum lines. :rolleyes;
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so what did your fuel pressure read at that point? Was it right?
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I dont normally ride around with it out unless im testing. I was just driving at the time of observance. I shouldn't have posted this without numbers. I'll get some. I also need to check my WOT voltage.
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and with line-off FP set at 43, with the boost being set at 17lbs WOT, the FP at WOT should be 60?
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I dont normally ride around with it out unless im testing.
(http://www.ihadav8.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3750.0;attach=2016) That was just way tooo much information.
AJ___
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and with line-off FP set at 43, with the boost being set at 17lbs WOT, the FP at WOT should be 60?
yes, it should...and go ahead, let it all hang out...just not in my town
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Oh damn. I normally check my sentences before writing them. :chin:
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And i dont think it reaches 60. Weird
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well, find out! and then find out why? sure would explain why it goes lean and would save some time looking for a magic cure!
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well, find out! and then find out why? sure would explain why it goes lean and would save some time looking for a magic cure!
I got you. Hold tight fellas!!
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im going to narrow my issues down to voltage. I know the scantool dont reflect the exact voltage at the back of the alternator(wish it did) but with my lights on, heat on, at night, a short WOT blast showed the voltage at 13.3. definitely an issue for me. Guess i can start re-doing some wiring. :x
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that sounds perfectly fine to me.....
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on your site you said you didnt like to see anything below 13.5 at WOT. Am i reading too much into it?
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my car definitely runs stronger(seems like it) during the day when the fan isn't running and the lights aren't on.(radiator fan due to it being so cool out).
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that would be at the fuel pump. You are not running enuf boost to really make the pump work hard enough to need a lot of voltage.
Again, is your car showing 60 psi of fuel pressure at 17# of boost?
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for those short WOT bursts it did spike up to 60 instantly. didnt stay in it long enough due to the excessive knock im getting when i floor it. like when im in fourth it'll drop down to third but the KR is through the roof.
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should i ease into it and try it with it already being in 3rd gear?
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so suddenly it is knocking a lot? that is new. How much is a lot? What is the default timing for 3/4? Should be written on the chip. Lower it to 18 degs if you have not already
easing into it will often bring out the worst in a car. I don't like it, but sometimes it will eliminate an external source of noise.
I always pull the shifter into Drive so I start the run out in third gear and not OD when testing.
When it is showing 60 psi of pressure, is it showing timing retard?
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All good questions. Last time under normal driving conditions in 4th gear, i floored it and 13.8 KR instantly popped up when it dropped down to 3rd. I didnt give the car a chance to pull really I was trying to watch too much shit so i didnt do my normal STAND IN IT at the time. I know i suck at relaying what happened as well as just making shit simple, but as i stated before, I dont wanna break anything. :powersix:
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And easing into it can bring out the worse in the car? please elaborate. I thought the TT chip was good for all around driving experiences. I was under the impression that part throttle runs were not as amusing when running a Non-progressive alky kit. I could be reading too much into stuff though. Thanks
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just got in from work. i think im getting all of my KR from shifts. Did a WOT run from 15 MPH to about 63 MPH, and the FP was pegged at about 60. I say about due to it being on the windshield. So i'll say the FP is fine from 1st to 2nd gear. It's a bit cool out, car running at 163. The stupid ass O2's read at 761 and 4.1 KR when i push the recall button. This car is starting to become worse than my wife. :hmm
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When you go part throttle, the butterfly is only partly open but the turbo is trying to make boost and push air into the engine. It is a bit confusing for the computer....ma kes it hard to get the fueling right. The TT chip is very good...
I was mainly referring to those that push the pedal halfway to the floor, make 17# of boost and want someone to analyze their run.
In your case, start the run in third gear as I suggested above, ease the pedal to the floor rather than abruptly stomping it....and watch the timing retard.
Does not sound like real detonation to me IF and that is a big IF, the fuel pressure holds at 60 psi and the timing retard diminishes rather than increases..... but, You should be seeing at least 780 on the O2s...I would think you would if the fuel pressure is holding
Otherwise, try dropping the timing to 18 degs from whatever the default is in 3/4
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I was bored so I skimmed your thread Phil.
You need to figure out your knock - pull 4-6* of timing and see if it goes away. If not - then figure out where the false knock is.
To make these cars work you really need to go over them with a fine tooth comb, over and over again.
Are we sure the 02 sensor in it is good? ECM/Engine grounds good? I hate chasing 02 numbers - to many variables.
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When you go part throttle, the butterfly is only partly open but the turbo is trying to make boost and push air into the engine. It is a bit confusing for the computer....ma kes it hard to get the fueling right. The TT chip is very good...
I was mainly referring to those that push the pedal halfway to the floor, make 17# of boost and want someone to analyze their run.
In your case, start the run in third gear as I suggested above, ease the pedal to the floor rather than abruptly stomping it....and watch the timing retard.
Does not sound like real detonation to me IF and that is a big IF, the fuel pressure holds at 60 psi and the timing retard diminishes rather than increases..... but, You should be seeing at least 780 on the O2s...I would think you would if the fuel pressure is holding
Otherwise, try dropping the timing to 18 degs from whatever the default is in 3/4
I'll read what the defaul settings are. I always thought the timing was the same throughout. You might be right about the false knock though, becuase i get KR up to 3-5 when the boost hits 5 lbs of boost in fourth when im just passing someone on the highway. I'll keep you all posted. Thanks
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I was bored so I skimmed your thread Phil.
You need to figure out your knock - pull 4-6* of timing and see if it goes away. If not - then figure out where the false knock is.
To make these cars work you really need to go over them with a fine tooth comb, over and over again.
Are we sure the 02 sensor in it is good? ECM/Engine grounds good? I hate chasing 02 numbers - to many variables.
There are a lot of variables. I would like to do the grounds, but unsure of the procedure(could be quite simple). I think it's false knock due to how easy it comes in, and i dont see any normally in first and 2nd gear. Does the knock sensor pick up tire squeel? Burnouts, ets....?
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Tire squeal shouldn't trip the sensor - traction hop might do it - but then there are other issues
Normally it's from the exhaust banging, etc. Check the engine mounts, trans mount and the exhaust hangers
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Thanks. I posted earlier that i think i might need a driver side motor mount do to my engine lifting up under accel. Steve had me put the E-brake on with the car in drive and see what happens. thanks