IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense

Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: Steve Wood on August 30 2012, 02:39:31 PM

Title: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: Steve Wood on August 30 2012, 02:39:31 PM
Be sure you take plenty of pictures of your injector swapping exercise!  Then you can tell me how to do it properly!  :)

I had never upgraded my SD chips so I ordered the latest version from Eric.  Then I decided to swap out the 75# injectors in my GN for 60's so I need to learn how...or get you to visit Texas and do it for me!  :D

After a lot of research, I have decided that Jeremy is correct and the AFX is the best wb considering it comes with an NTK sensor and has a great reputation for accuracy/reliability so I can give closed loop another try with more assurance...al tho 24.5 mpg open loop is going to be hard to beat :)
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: phil_long on August 30 2012, 02:57:42 PM
Lol. I got you. As a matter of fact, I'll aim for this weekend. Starting on Sat morning. I have install the radiator too. 24.5 mpg is sweet. I could only wish!! And swapping out 75# for 60? The pics will more than likely be available for viewing before I make it to Texas. :D
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: Steve Wood on August 30 2012, 03:35:13 PM
don't put the radiator in if the guy is going to have to take it out again to do the timing chain

The 75s are leaking down and need to be cleaned...60s will cover me faster than anything I am likely to go again...they started losing pressure quickly after turning it off within a couple of years so I figured I would just replace them -intelligent thing would be to clean them for less money, but age often triumphs over intelligence
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: Scott87 on August 30 2012, 04:08:39 PM
Only thing I wish I did when I changed my injectors was to use KY or something else that is water based for lube..

I ended up using a little vaseline.  Other than that it was fairly easy.

Only other thing I would suggest is undo the clips that hold the injectors to the rail before starting to reef on it.

Posted From Tapatalk
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: SuperSix on August 30 2012, 04:10:03 PM
Only thing I wish I did when I changed my injectors was to use KY or something else that is water based for lube..

I ended up using a little vaseline.  Other than that it was fairly easy.

Only other thing I would suggest is undo the clips that hold the injectors to the rail before starting to reef on it.

Posted From Tapatalk

Another handy AstroGlide use!
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: Just a Six? on August 30 2012, 04:19:04 PM
I don't use the injector clips anymore. I've had a few sizes & they have been on/off a few times but I never felt the need for the clips. I have a stock rail-injector combo on the wall & it still has the clips. I removed 1 injector a few years back & forgot they had clips from the factory. When it didn't want to separate I soon realized the clips were still on!  :icon_redface:
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: Steve Wood on August 30 2012, 04:40:49 PM
there is no need for the clips...I think they made it easy on the original assembly.  I don't even recall what they look like.

I have used vaseline, grease out of my grease gun, silicone grease,dielectric which is the same thing, even wd40 once when someone did not have any form of grease

something that stays coated on the o rings is the best, I think...makes it easy to pull them out years later
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: phil_long on August 30 2012, 04:57:40 PM
These are great tips. Mine should be easy to pull though because they were just out no more than 2 months ago. But yall suggest coating the o-rings with some type of lubricant for future de-installs?  Cool.  And you suggest leaving the rad out of the car?  I didnt think it would be in the way.  thanks for the heads up
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: Steve Wood on August 30 2012, 05:15:58 PM
greasing them allows them to roll/slide into the intake and rail without getting nicked....a nick causes  a spray of gas out the top or a potential vacuum leak around the bottom....also may make it easier to remove later...yours should be a piece of cake....


but remember, anywhere you use an o ring...put a little grease on it...fuel filter, regulator lines, anywhere there is an o ring
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: Steve Wood on August 30 2012, 05:16:31 PM
Lot less chance of that new radiator being dinged if you leave it off and out of the way
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: earlbrown on August 30 2012, 05:21:26 PM
I use plain ole spit on my injector orings (oddly enough the same lube I use in place of astroglide/analeze)


Do normal people pull the radiator when doing a timing chain? The intercooler is as far as I go when I'm doing one.
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: Steve Wood on August 30 2012, 05:28:11 PM
this is a bit different, he has a brand new radiator...why stick it in the car and chance getting a wrench bounced off it?  hell, I don't care, put it in....:D
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: Just a Six? on August 30 2012, 06:24:49 PM
If you have a dremmel with the small brass wheel you can clean the rail holes from any crud & then spray with brake clean. I also did my intake but it was off the car. I suppose if your gentle with the wheel you could do the intake on the car.
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: Steve Wood on August 30 2012, 07:28:20 PM
I usually just stick my finger in a paper towel sprayed with brake clean and wipe them out...he just had them out a month or two ago...should not be any thing to worry about
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: SuperSix on August 30 2012, 10:00:20 PM
Brake cleaner is a gift from heaven.
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: $1987 GN$ on August 30 2012, 10:30:57 PM
Brake cleaner is a gift from heaven.

Chlorinated or non chlorinated?

AJ___
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: SuperSix on August 31 2012, 08:06:58 AM
Brake cleaner is a gift from heaven.

Chlorinated or non chlorinated?

AJ___

Both. I can't find chlorinated anymore though.
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: phil_long on August 31 2012, 08:12:46 AM
I use plain ole spit on my injector orings (oddly enough the same lube I use in place of astroglide/analeze)


Do normal people pull the radiator when doing a timing chain? The intercooler is as far as I go when I'm doing one.
keep me laughing Earl. Lol
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: phil_long on August 31 2012, 08:14:55 AM
this is a bit different, he has a brand new radiator...why stick it in the car and chance getting a wrench bounced off it?  hell, I don't care, put it in.... :D

Lol. I was going to put it in because I didnt want the guy trying to charge me for more time of install. Besides, I dont want to be questioned as to why I removed the oil cooler(because most TR guys agree to disagree about needing them) and him POTENTIALLY saying this radiator wont work with your stock tranny lines or blah blah blah....
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: phil_long on August 31 2012, 08:15:39 AM
And im not saying he will, but i personally just dont want to take the chance of having to hear it. Then again, hell, i might leave it off.
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: Steve Wood on August 31 2012, 09:12:39 AM
sounds like a valid reason to me...let us know if he removes it!  LOL
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: gnonyx on August 31 2012, 09:23:19 AM
I would listen to Steve as he claimed to said "don't put the radiator in if the guy is going to have to take it out again to do the timing chain" :chin:
To many things happen, a slip of a tool, a mistake, and then shit happens, and you're playing peek a poo. :013:
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: phil_long on August 31 2012, 11:54:52 AM
I would listen to Steve as he claimed to said "don't put the radiator in if the guy is going to have to take it out again to do the timing chain" :chin:
To many things happen, a slip of a tool, a mistake, and then shit happens, and you're playing peek a poo. :013:
Lol. So leave it out? Put it back in? Lol.
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: Steve Wood on August 31 2012, 12:28:50 PM
it does not have to be removed to get to the cover...put it in if you want to
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: gnonyx on August 31 2012, 09:11:21 PM
it does not have to be removed to get to the cover...put it in if you want to
:icon_eyes: Now I'm confused, I though Phil said he was going to put the radiator back in, where as Steve said don't put it back if the guy is going to do the timing work. Now Steve said it does not have to be removed to get to the cover...put it in if you want to
I'm sooo confused :icon_eyes:   
Is radiator in the car now or not?
 
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: $1987 GN$ on August 31 2012, 09:31:11 PM
it does not have to be removed to get to the cover...put it in if you want to
:icon_eyes: Now I'm confused, I though Phil said he was going to put the radiator back in, where as Steve said don't put it back if the guy is going to do the timing work. Now Steve said it does not have to be removed to get to the cover...put it in if you want to
I'm sooo confused :icon_eyes:   
Is radiator in the car now or not?

Steve was being sarcastic; Phil wanted to put it in.

Does it need to come out to change it no.

AJ___
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: Steve Wood on August 31 2012, 10:15:38 PM
LOL////

he had a semi valid reason to put it in...it's only two minutes to put it in...but, when he starts trying to figure out how to connect the lines up to a screwed up radiator, it will drag into two weeks...:D
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: Steve Wood on August 31 2012, 10:21:00 PM
think I will put the AFX display module in the glove box.  That way, I can tell passengers that open the glove box that it is the timer counting down to an engine blow up
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: gnonyx on September 01 2012, 12:13:21 PM
LOL////

he had a semi valid reason to put it in...it's only two minutes to put it in...but, when he starts trying to figure out how to connect the lines up to a screwed up radiator, it will drag into two weeks... :D

Sorry Phil, but that is too funny :rofl: :rofl:
As I said before I enjoy the comedy central drama.
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: Steve Wood on September 01 2012, 01:26:28 PM
I am going to have to adopt Phil so I can pick on him full time.... :D
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: phil_long on September 01 2012, 04:57:15 PM
Yall silly!! Lol :rofl:
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: phil_long on September 01 2012, 04:58:08 PM
i dont plan to drag it out for two weeks, but hey!! :D
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: Steve Wood on September 01 2012, 05:35:46 PM
You have already dragged it out for a month...let's go for the record!
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: nocooler on September 01 2012, 09:23:15 PM
Steve - just a note on the AFX.

The analog output is supposed to be dead nuts accurate - the on screen display doesn't refresh at the same rate as the analog out, so the numbers might not register the same between the 2.

It's really a nice piece - none of the innovative bugs.
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: Steve Wood on September 15 2012, 03:29:20 PM
Damn, Phil...thought you were gonna show up and help me!  Damn injectors popped right out...I sprayed a little aerokoil on them before lunch in case they were stuck after ten years...no problem but the injectors are hanging up between the pcv and the map hoses when I try to pull them out on the rail....guess I am going to have to stop cussing and pull those two, back vacuum lines off the block to give me enuf room to pull them out....seems like everything is a drama these days!  :D

Should have known when I told you how easy it is that I was tempting Fate...sure started off well!
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: daveismissing on September 15 2012, 04:07:18 PM
i dont plan to drag it out for two weeks, but hey!! :D


Todays Date: Sept 15 
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: Steve Wood on September 15 2012, 05:06:30 PM
Need to bolt everything back down, but, they are in.  Need to look at the fuel line o ring and change it, before I finish tomorrow..my back has had enuf for today.

I must be totally getting senile because I noticed the factory injector clips on the car and I have gone from stock to 36 to 50 to 75's and now back to 60's.  I thought I threw the clips away 20+ years ago....so I said what the heck and popped them back on

None on the other car which i have changed a few times as well

Makes me wonder if some Canadian visited me during the night and popped them on?

Phil, what happened to your car...make sure he drops the pan and cleans the nylon off the oil pick up and out of the pan! (if it has a nylon gear)
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: Steve Wood on September 16 2012, 04:03:47 PM
Okay, Phil, mine are in...time for you to update us!
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: phil_long on September 17 2012, 12:25:33 PM
Yeah, sorry for the delay gents.  Should here something back today.  As for the injectors, couldnt do it before i sent the car due to the rain.  I did get the new radiator put in tho.  I was waiting for a post like this.  Lol. Yall be bashing me.  I've grown gray hairs over the last two weeks and Im not even 25 yet
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: daveismissing on September 17 2012, 04:25:36 PM
Bashing? Nah, ....teasing perhaps. Didn't know you were so soft.

Thought we had become the kinder gentler board?

except for Charlie  :rofl:
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: phil_long on September 17 2012, 05:06:39 PM
Bashing? Nah, ....teasing perhaps. Didn't know you were so soft.

Thought we had become the kinder gentler board?

except for Charlie  :rofl:
Lmao!!!!!! Far from soft!! Trust and believe. I dont literally take it as "bashing." you guys are nice most of the time!! :D
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: SuperSix on September 17 2012, 05:13:19 PM
/me must work harder...
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: Steve Wood on September 17 2012, 06:03:37 PM
If you don't tell us what the shop found, I will be using a big stick for bashing get!
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: phil_long on September 17 2012, 06:16:43 PM
Im about to call this dude actually. Earlier when i called he said he had to be sure that the valves weren't bent or something of that nature
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: Steve Wood on September 17 2012, 06:45:46 PM
okay, so that means the timing chain was the problem

If it had the nylon gear, be sure he cleaned off the oil pump pick up cause it always collects the nylon bits and kills the oil pressure
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: phil_long on September 17 2012, 07:26:29 PM
He is definitely going to drop the oil pan, because when i called him he explained to me his process of doing the timing  chain. That was the main thing i was waiting to hear. Drop that pan!!
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: phil_long on September 17 2012, 07:31:03 PM
Start saying that the radiator in the car dont go in there and blah blah blah.  im like dude, just remove the oil cooler adapter and leave it in the car.  If/when i get an external cooler I'll throw it back on there. I sent it to the shop with the top radiator cooler line connected to the new radiator proving that the fittings acutally fit. Hope he dont try and give me shit about that. That'd piss me off
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: Steve Wood on September 17 2012, 07:34:19 PM
LOL....I would become a consultant, but, I have been one in the past, and these days, I would have to kill someone

I need to put up a how to change injectors page.  Everytime I look at the pics, I think, power wash those damn engines
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: phil_long on September 17 2012, 07:53:34 PM
Yeah?  My engine looks like crap.  I just assumed it was due to my Turbo, but i think im way off with that one.  The "how to change injectors" sticky on turbobuick.com is really really nice.  Pictures to go with every step.  My type of write up. Lol.  Even includes what size tools to use for the bolts. Perfect for dummies like myself who want/needt all the details. :D
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: Steve Wood on September 17 2012, 08:00:58 PM
damn sure helps
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: phil_long on September 17 2012, 08:13:07 PM
definitely. but tomorrow, i should have a price of labor and estimated time of completion because im dying without my car right now.  About to be on the market for another car. something reliable
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: Steve Wood on September 20 2012, 08:17:08 PM
here, I put a page together...pro bably not the detail you found elsewhere, but, it might help somewhere

http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/injectorswap.html (http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/injectorswap.html)

Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: phil_long on September 21 2012, 08:34:23 AM
Thanks Steve. Appreciate that. I think I've reached my boiling point with my car. My car directly haven't done anything, but this mechanic is really pissing me. I have my mom talking to the dude now 'cuz i won't be able to hold a convo with him without cussin dude out. I got a temper like no other and I hate when people fuck with me. Long story but I'll keep yall posted as this madness continues. And to sum up the BS, my car isn't fixed yet and I have no price or estimate of completion. Im not even sure he's done shit yet.  :icon_evil:
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: Steve Wood on September 21 2012, 09:24:20 AM
I am sorry to hear that kinda news.  Take a deep breath.  I understand how frustrating it is. 
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: phil_long on September 21 2012, 10:37:50 AM
Thanks Steve. Question for you though.  What's the odds of having bent valves if the timing chain messed up during start up? I guess im curious as to if the guy would be yanking my chain if he said that the valves are bent. Like, if the chain skipped teeth on start up(which is the only option here) how would the valves have bent? I wasnt moving when this happened as most chains normally break during driving conditions(at least thats what I've read). Thanks 
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: Steve Wood on September 21 2012, 10:53:21 AM
It is something that should be checked for.

If the valve timing is thrown off very much when the chain loses some teeth, then one could have valves at maximum lift when the the piston comes up to the top which could cause a collision between the two.

My guess is that yours should be okay because the chain did not break which almost always causes a train wreck....with a stock cam and not much lift to begin with, I would hope yours is okay
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: phil_long on September 21 2012, 10:59:11 AM
Gotcha.  Thanks Steve. I need to go back to the basics as far as learning the simple operation of an engine. It can be simple and complex at the same time for me. Back to researching.
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: Steve Wood on September 21 2012, 11:28:46 AM
everything is always built on the basics whether we are talking about cars or rockets
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: phil_long on September 21 2012, 11:47:45 AM
Lol. I know. Just got off the phone with the guy.  He said that the teeth where shredded on the gear itself, so he replaced it and the chain, and he's checking the compression. He also have to drop the oil pan of course due to the shavings and crap. We'll see what happens.
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: Steve Wood on September 21 2012, 11:50:45 AM
well, we guessed that one right...Me, I am glad cause I would have felt really bad if it was not.  Makes that rebuild sound kinda strange to me, tho...almost everyone puts a new timing set on when they rebuild one.

If the compression is good, the valves should be fine.

Sounds like more progress than you had thought
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: phil_long on September 21 2012, 12:47:31 PM
well, we guessed that one right...Me, I am glad cause I would have felt really bad if it was not.  Makes that rebuild sound kinda strange to me, tho...almost everyone puts a new timing set on when they rebuild one.

If the compression is good, the valves should be fine.

Sounds like more progress than you had thought
Def more progress than I thought.  Given the nature of the rebuild, when i bought the car i literally didnt know shit, meaning the exact mileage of the rebuild, etc. Im learning now though. Its odd that all the teeth would "break" at once? Like the car ran fine until one day I turned it off, and it wouldnt start.
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: earlbrown on September 21 2012, 01:14:47 PM
They can be broken for years and you won' t even know it. The timing chain wrapped over half way around the top gear so you have to lose a bunch of teeths before it shows itself.
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: phil_long on September 21 2012, 03:47:16 PM
Thats so weird. And the broken teeth doesn't effect driveability until the wrong moment in most cases huh?
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: earlbrown on September 21 2012, 04:10:56 PM
There's 40 teeth on the top gear and the chain is engaged to 25 of them at all times. It takes a pretty big gap before the load can sheer the rest of them off.

It's like a light switch when it gives up the ghost too. I've had it happen to me twice.
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: Steve Wood on September 21 2012, 04:26:37 PM
what he said  :)
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: daveismissing on September 21 2012, 07:08:13 PM
Impressed that the number is 26, must be a really loose chain :) 


edit: crap, forgot the other gear is small , Earl probably counted them anyways
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: Steve Wood on September 21 2012, 08:06:49 PM
it gets looser as the teeth wear down and then off

remember it is a coating not the complete gear
Title: Re: Phil!!! You inspired me!
Post by: phil_long on September 25 2012, 10:47:09 AM
makes sense.
SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2025, SimplePortal