IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
General => IHADAV8 Playground => Topic started by: gordyzx9r on July 10 2012, 11:43:34 PM
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Well, I bought it and brought her home.
Here is what I know of it so far:
1986 T-Type
ARP Studs w/ Billet Caps
Comp Cam 212/212
RJC Power Plate
TE45A
PTE Turbo Saver
60lbs. Inj.
340 w/Hotwire Kit
70mm TB
Pat's 3200 L/U
SE Turbo 3" DP
Razor's PAC Alky
TT chip
LS1 MAF
BGC SLIC
Scanmaster
Dynomax Exhaust
Boxed Arms
Moog Springs,
UMI Lowers
Hotchkis Bar
Originally a TX car with 71.5K miles on the body, no idea what's on the power train or even sure if it's what originally came with the car or not (stock motor, stock transmission and G80 rear end).
It is clear of rot except for one spot...right rear fender along the body crease at waist level it was scratched/gouged down to the metal while being worked on at a shop. The shop put it outside in the elements for a few weeks and it started showing corrosion. My friend sanded it down and painted it with white primer to keep it from getting worse.
Blue interior. It was caged at one time, but it was removed. Apparently it was a staged race car but the stage motor was taken out and they scraped together a motor and threw it in. Front bumper is fiberglass but someone painted the rear chrome bumper white and the idiot at the shop scraped one pretty good so now the chrome is showing on the left rear.
I've repaired some of the electrical gremlins, got the speedo working, the tail lights (connector by steering column), got the fans going again (bad wiring), and some other things.
He blew both head gaskets...and in the process of getting it repaired it was discovered that the valves were leaking so he had the heads replaced with the new stock heads. Those were just both replaced by Bill Ragland so I know they were done right.
What I know it needs:
It's not idling right, you have to keep giving it gas to keep it running for the first few minutes. No malfunction codes. And I haven't had time to get the numbers off the scan master, but I thought I saw .54 on the TPS.
Transmission fluid is leaking from the lines going to the radiator.
Fuel gauge isn't working.
Brakes need to be purged and the fluid replaced, possibly a new accumulator ball.
I think it needs a completely redone engine harness as we're constantly finding frayed/exposed wires on it.
It's going to need a paint job, nothing crazy...just a plain jane white paint job with out the trim or emblems. Even considering having the spoiler removed and the antenna hole filled in.
Maybe a new carpet, but at the very least I need to look under there to see what the condition is after they removed the cage.
In the papers that came with the car I found the original ebay ad for it that my friend purchased it via, unfortunately plugging in the item # doesn't work (I guess since it's been so long).
This is from the eBay ad:
130277859354
Starting bid: $8K
White ext. w/black out trim and blue int.
One owner car with original title from 1986
Car has approx. 72K original miles on the body
The car was previously modified and has been returned to close to stock cond.
The car was in GMHTP and a copy of the magazine will be provided to the new owner
Fresh eng. and xmsn. < 300 miles
Engine built to stock w/exception of Billet Main Caps, ARP studded bottom end, Comp Cams 212/212 Cam
Xmsn. rebuilt with very mild shift kit and teflon seals
Fuel Inj. 42lbs.
Boxed rear upper and lower control arms with new bushings
New KYB shocks front/rear
New Moog rear springs
New Moog Sway bar end links
Wildwood manual proportioning valve to adjust the brake bias
New AC Delco fuel pump
New stock MAF pipe
New turbo hose/clamps
Stock airbox setup w/new filter
Stock exhaust
tbs.com mini starter
4 core stock style radiator with oil and xmsn cooler built in
I paid $4500...I think I got a good deal out of it.
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Pics of the engine bay:
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More pics:
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It has some kind of wild Kenwood deck that he put in it...no idea if it works, it lights up though (lol). No idea if the speakers work or whats in those CSII speaker boxes on the doors.
It came with a complete set of urethane bushings, so I'll have the worn out stock ones replaced soon too.
First thing first...get it to idle right/drivable without stalling and the brakes.
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I think you did well, taking a SWAG at what you need to fix it up right you will be well "ahead" of me and I suspect Mark.
Suggest a power logger right off the bat. I would have saved much frustrating trouble shooting as seen elsewhere.
Is the wife talking to you yet?
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I would have bought that in a heartbeat for 4500.
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Good price for that car!! Have Fun!! :atbeer:
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Looks like a bargain to me...I love the white and the gray cars. I know you like to replace everything on your cars so they are all new, but, that car does not really look like it needs much other than a little time to go thru it and get everything working. That a helicopter instrument panel :)?
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I think you did well, taking a SWAG at what you need to fix it up right you will be well "ahead" of me and I suspect Mark.
Suggest a power logger right off the bat. I would have saved much frustrating trouble shooting as seen elsewhere.
Is the wife talking to you yet?
Yeah, she got over it pretty quick...the issue is that I literally have no place to keep it. I don't want it outdoors given the paint (lack thereof) condition on some areas of the car. So I'm having to keep it in the trailer, in my storage lot until I sort this out...since we're selling the house and moving I don't want to invest anything in the house that I'm not going to get back out of it.
I would have bought that in a heartbeat for 4500.
Sorry the timing didn't work out, my schedule got discombobulate and my friend had to jump through some hoops when his truck broke down the day I drove down to pick the car up.
Looks like a bargain to me...I love the white and the gray cars. I know you like to replace everything on your cars so they are all new, but, that car does not really look like it needs much other than a little time to go thru it and get everything working. That a helicopter instrument panel :) ?
The instrument panel comment is funny, the guy I bought it from is a pilot and I was one.
I'm not a fan of white cars, I'd rather have a grey one or a burgundy one. But given the price and what I got I can't really complain. This car won't be getting the financial attention that the GN gets. What I really wanted was a bone stock, unmolested '86/'87 T-Type or T that I could get down and dirty on and learn the ropes. I didn't have time to do that when I was in the Army with the GN and have always had to take it somewhere to get whatever I needed done on it. Having to play with a car that has who knows what kinds of modifications and parts on it are probably difficult enough for experts let alone a novice.
It'll be fun, I'm looking forward to getting it running right...with minimal dollars being thrown at it.
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What is the intent behind the Wildwood manual proportioning valve to adjust the brake bias? What does that mean exactly?
In the trunk, I have to be honest...I don't think I've ever looked under my carpet in the GN. Are they all like that or does this T-Type have an access panel to the top of the gas tank to get to the fuel pump?
Is that an RJC boost controller? You can see it in one of the engine bay pics I think in the 2nd or 3rd post.
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What is the intent behind the Wildwood manual proportioning valve to adjust the brake bias? What does that mean exactly?
That adjusts the amount of brake line pressure on the line it's attached to. If you have aftermarket brakes, you can adjust the line pressure, so one set (frt/rear) doesn't lock up before the other set.
In the trunk, I have to be honest...I don't think I've ever looked under my carpet in the GN. Are they all like that or does this T-Type have an access panel to the top of the gas tank to get to the fuel pump?
No, that isn't for fuel pump access - not sure what it is exactly for, but I know it's not a FP access door.
Is that an RJC boost controller? You can see it in one of the engine bay pics I think in the 2nd or 3rd post.
I am 99% sure it is.
Those are the intrepid fans.
That bolt through the steering shaft looks wrong.. Maybe he put it in there in addition to the factory bolt as a failsafe.
Is that a power steering leak? Or are the AN lines he used for the trans cooler leaking? It's on the wrong side for a PS leak.. Oh - trans lines going into the radiator are leaking...
Whoever owned that car took damn good care of it....
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That adjusts the amount of brake line pressure on the line it's attached to. If you have aftermarket brakes, you can adjust the line pressure, so one set (frt/rear) doesn't lock up before the other set.
The brakes are stock. SS brake lines is the only real change that was made in addition to that Wildwood device.
No, that isn't for fuel pump access - not sure what it is exactly for, but I know it's not a FP access door.
Are all TRs like that?
I am 99% sure it is.
I have one in the box still somewhere that I decided not to use on the GN, I'll match it up.
Those are the intrepid fans.
Awesome, so they should fail anyday then...I have a spare, no kidding. I have a brand new in the box set of fans that I installed the racetronix kit on but after reading how they failed I went with the dual spals and casper wiring harness on the GN.
That bolt through the steering shaft looks wrong.. Maybe he put it in there in addition to the factory bolt as a failsafe.
That I believe is the ever popular tb.com Jeep Grand Cherokee (?) mod for to fix the play in the steering...I think.
Is that a power steering leak? Or are the AN lines he used for the trans cooler leaking? It's on the wrong side for a PS leak.. Oh - trans lines going into the radiator are leaking...
Yeah...that should be an easy fix.
Whoever owned that car took damn good care of it....
I have no idea, my friend basically bought it as a stock TR (with stock wheels and all) and he wanted to make it go fast so all of the mods are basically what he did in the past two years.
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Question about the paint, even the non-black cars are laqceur correct? So the whole thing has to be stripped down to the metal?
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You got a good deal on that car! The gauges are exactly like mine. It was good to see you the other day when you came through town.
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That is a standard floor pan plug in the trunk.
A good painter will have no problem in fixing that paint problem without stripping the car. They make various primer sealers to deal with such. I cannot find any pictures of the white Limited that I had the rear top fender and roof repainted to fix damage from a falling tree limb. Never caused a problem.
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What is the intent behind the Wildwood manual proportioning valve to adjust the brake bias? What does that mean exactly?
I installed one like that on my GN when I did the S-10 rear wheel cylinders. By cranking down the pressure on the valve you can increase the pressure to the rear brakes.
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What is the intent behind the Wildwood manual proportioning valve to adjust the brake bias? What does that mean exactly?
I installed one like that on my GN when I did the S-10 rear wheel cylinders. By cranking down the pressure on the valve you can increase the pressure to the rear brakes.
Which is good for drag racing (if you don't jump on the brakes at the finish line), but hell on the street on a wet road or gravel. the S-10's are dangerous enough on the street, but, I guess you could reduce the amount of pressure to make them street safe.
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My GN was painted over the lacquer, held up for ~18 yrs?.
Depends how good the lac is.
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That adjusts the amount of brake line pressure on the line it's attached to. If you have aftermarket brakes, you can adjust the line pressure, so one set (frt/rear) doesn't lock up before the other set.
The brakes are stock. SS brake lines is the only real change that was made in addition to that Wildwood device.
No, that isn't for fuel pump access - not sure what it is exactly for, but I know it's not a FP access door.
Are all TRs like that?
I am 99% sure it is.
I have one in the box still somewhere that I decided not to use on the GN, I'll match it up.
Those are the intrepid fans.
Awesome, so they should fail anyday then...I have a spare, no kidding. I have a brand new in the box set of fans that I installed the racetronix kit on but after reading how they failed I went with the dual spals and casper wiring harness on the GN.
That bolt through the steering shaft looks wrong.. Maybe he put it in there in addition to the factory bolt as a failsafe.
That I believe is the ever popular tb.com Jeep Grand Cherokee (?) mod for to fix the play in the steering...I think.
Is that a power steering leak? Or are the AN lines he used for the trans cooler leaking? It's on the wrong side for a PS leak.. Oh - trans lines going into the radiator are leaking...
Yeah...that should be an easy fix.
Whoever owned that car took damn good care of it....
I have no idea, my friend basically bought it as a stock TR (with stock wheels and all) and he wanted to make it go fast so all of the mods are basically what he did in the past two years.
I will check my Jeep steering shaft - I think there's an extra bolt in there..
Not all of the Intrepid fans fail - I think a lot of the "failures" were from people trying to use them with the factory fan harness, and not using a proper aftermarket (Racetronix/Casper's) harness to handle the much increased amperage, that the factory harness can't handle.
Be careful with the trans line leak, it's pretty hard to not put that assy together to the point where it leaks. Hopefully the fittings in the radiator are just loose.
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Which is good for drag racing (if you don't jump on the brakes at the finish line)
We had a work around for that Steve. I don't remember the exact setup but a couple of the OK Buick cars had it and I sent the info to Banning Cohen & he did it on his car. You had to add an extra line to run down to the stock proportioning valve and it also went to the line lock. Bottom line, once you staged and stayed on the brake, the line pressure to the rear shoes was high but as soon as the foot brake was released the pressure on the rear shoes returned to normal bias.
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I still haven't had the time (or more importantly, the space) to work on this car yet so it's still sitting inside of my car trailer.
I did however get a package today from the previous owner with more information about the car.
It appeared in GMHTP magazine JULY/AUG 2005 Vol 11 No 7. He sent the magazine so if it's alright, I can scan it and upload it...
Got the original paperwork when the car was titled...I'm the third owner.
And receipts:
HRpartsNstuff Poly Motor Mount (driver side)
UMI Boxed LCA
Comp Cams K69-248-4 Comp Cams High Energy Cam and Lifter Kit 212/212
Kirban Mystery Theft Deterrent (but no paperwork on what that actually is...I have no idea)
SE Turbo:
Exhaust CB no mufflers (I take it that means exhaust piping from the cat back minus the mufflers)
Magnaflow 5"X8" aluminzed offset 3" mufflers
Tweaked ECM chip custom (I have no idea if that means he put in a different chip he made or did he screw with the ECM?)
SE Turbo 3" DP for stock w/Test Pipe
DEKA HI 60lb Inj
Transmission Temp sender
Pryometer probe
NPT weld in bung
Trans temp manifold
IAC Angle Boss 45 degree adapter plate
Aluminum 4" mass air flow pipe
Alky control GN progressive kit (installed but definitely working right...)
Turbo TE 45A
160 Thermo
Billet Adj FPR
70mm TB
New fuel sender (which is funny because the fuel gauge is FUBAR and not reading right)
Engine tie down (lol)
3 wire hallesect pass through (I have no idea...)
VDO convertor tach module
VSS converter module
New fuel hangar
New Walbro Fuel Pump
Install GNX style dash
Install Jeep Steering Shaft (I knew that's what it was...)
BGC Stretch SLIC
LS1 Mass Air Flow Sensor & Translator
Scanmaster
Hybrid Boost Controller
Turbo Saver
Regal driveshaft loop
Transcooler
Braided SS brake line kit
Roll back fenders (I didn't even notice that...)
Auger upper plenum (what does that mean?)
LPW rear end cover (what does that mean?)
Rear end girdle
Embroidered trunk kit
Hoses, gaskets, fluids, installation charges, etc...
Just that alone is about $8200 in receipts from 2010.
Then there is the head gaskets and new heads that got installed shortly thereafter...
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Mystery theft deterrent was some form of inductance switch as I recall. You had to touch something while turning the key to get it to start. Kirban probably still sells them.
Turbo is a Craig 45A which is equivalent to a T66....good turbo for well into the tens.
The tweaked custom chip would scare me unless it is just a TT chip...if it's not a TT, I would get rid of it.
Look at the back of the diff. I suspect that rear cover is one of the aluminum covers with a couple of set screws in it so you can put a little pressure on the caps in the diff to stabilize them
BGC slic should be a stock IC with a half of another ic welded to the bottom to make a bigger unit.
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If the bill is from SE Turbo I guess you take the $amount with a grain of salt...
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If the bill is from SE Turbo I guess you take the $amount with a grain of salt...
Yeah, lol. Well, when I met the previous owner he was going through the school where I worked at and was doing admin work until his next class date. I happened to walk by where he working and he was on tb.com, so I made a joke about MCSS. Then we got to talking about TRs and he said his was at SE Turbo...I told him to research them on tb.com and get back with me and I'd help him go rescue his car.
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Not too shabby at all...
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Well, since the GN is getting repaired (again) I have some time to fiddle with the T. Got it insured, titled, and registered today, finally. I was surprised that the insurance agency called it a "classic", they were kinda shocked at the values for low/mid/high ($6600/$10000/$20000 respectively). I have Grundy agreed collector's insurance on the GN but I think for now I'll just keep USAA full coverage on the T.
Drove it around for a bit. Does not like to stay running while idling when it first gets cranked up, had to feather the throttle to keep it going. Even after awhile it still sounds like it wants to stall.
Need to work on the idle. Earlier someone mentioned cleaning out the IAC passages. Do I just remove the IAC and use an electrical contact cleaner?
I need to change the oil/filter since it's been sitting for well over a year.
Check out the plugs and change them if necessary.
The brake light comes on intermittently, I'm hoping it's just the accumulator ball. I have a few of those and a brake switch sitting around here somewhere. I guess I should bleed the system too.
The fuel gauge is inoperative. He had the fuel sending unit and hangar replaced at SE Turbo (well, at least they said they did). Is there anyway to test that system before having to go right to the sending unit? I filled it with gas and will have to guestimate until I get that fixed.
The pyrometer is funky, it jumps all over the place. Then, after a while it will stick at a TGT when you give it throttle and hold there until you give it throttle again.
Scanmaster shows no KR, no MAL code, and everything else seems alright.
The SLIC is missing a mounting bolt to hold it to the support bracket.
The alcohol tank was empty, so I filled it up but I have no clue if it's working correctly or not yet.
I need to take out the ECM and look at the chip.
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Remove the iac. Spray it off with brake/carb clean. Spray the cleaner into the iac passage in the throttlebody thru the iac opening and thru the passages in the throttlebody.. .see first pic http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/throttle_body.htm (http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/throttle_body.htm) get the black crud out if present
check ALL (including the small hard plastic lines) the vacuum hoses for leaks as well as clean out the pcv...Make sure the plunger is free to move when you shake the pcv, Put tie wraps on all the lines at the vacuum lines at the vacuum block, etc to keep them from blowing off under boost.
make sure there is no leak(s) between maf and turbo.
Make sure there is no leak around the base of the plenum.
Crank the car up, let it warm up while watching the iac's in park...AC off....numbers should start fairly high and come down to 10-30 as the engine warms up. Adjust as required.
Check the engine vacuum when warm and in Park...should be around 17+ on stock cam and very steady...if the cam is not stock, it could be down around 14 or so...still pretty steady
If the car feels like it has a miss, remove one injector connector at a time and see if the rpm drops a bit, or misses more, each time one is removed. Note any cylinders that don't drop or cause a miss
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Remove the iac. Spray it off with brake/carb clean. Spray the cleaner into the iac passage in the throttlebody thru the iac opening and thru the passages in the throttlebody.. .see first pic http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/throttle_body.htm (http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/throttle_body.htm) get the black crud out if present
check ALL (including the small hard plastic lines) the vacuum hoses for leaks as well as clean out the pcv...Make sure the plunger is free to move when you shake the pcv, Put tie wraps on all the lines at the vacuum lines at the vacuum block, etc to keep them from blowing off under boost.
make sure there is no leak(s) between maf and turbo.
Make sure there is no leak around the base of the plenum.
Crank the car up, let it warm up while watching the iac's in park...AC off....numbers should start fairly high and come down to 10-30 as the engine warms up. Adjust as required.
Check the engine vacuum when warm and in Park...should be around 17+ on stock cam and very steady...if the cam is not stock, it could be down around 14 or so...still pretty steady
If the car feels like it has a miss, remove one injector connector at a time and see if the rpm drops a bit, or misses more, each time one is removed. Note any cylinders that don't drop or cause a miss
This should be a default reply for all related posts.
Great work, Steve. That covers the very basic preparatory diagnosis.
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Dropped it off at transmission shop to fix all the damn leaks...car is running much better.
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Where's the Like button on here?
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I always love it when people post that their car is not running right; then post later that it is running better and don't bother what they found wrong!
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I always love it when people post that their car is not running right; then post later that it is running better and don't bother what they found wrong!
Well...honestl y, I did nothing. I filled it with fresh gas and drove it a few times. Starts up and idles fine now...but yes, I need to do a spring cleaning on it and start working the bugs out. But it was pouring transmission fluid out, I got a cup overnight. One of the transmission lines to the cooler was ran in an odd way and was rubbing to the point where it had gotten a hole in it. So it got all new lines, a new aluminum radiator, and the transmission serviced.
I swear, when I get it back...I'll change the oil and filter, check the plugs, do some spring cleaning, etc.
But hey, the power antenna works...that shocked the hell out of me.
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Nice when they run right and you can begin to enjoy driving them
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Nice when they run right and you can begin to enjoy driving them
This thing's a warhorse, just fun to drive and not being afraid to get fingerprints on it or park it next to someone else. It runs really well, though I haven't gotten on it at all because the alcohol isn't working, I hope to fix that this weekend. The transmission guy looked over the transmission and said it's been gone through and looks to have been rebuilt recently. I'm just thrilled it's not leaking...ther e was a bad fitting some splits in lines that were rubbing on the frame.
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That is the way they are supposed to be....made to be driven, not adored.
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Little late to the party but great looking T. At some point I have to get a white T to park next to the GN.