IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Auto Tech => Topic started by: daveismissing on June 08 2012, 09:04:49 AM
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One can get by with gauges and vacuum pumps from Harbour Freight?
Recommendation s? Other required tools?
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The gauges seem okay. One of my sets is from there. Not sure about the vacuum pumps. I bought a used, name brand pump that can pull sufficient vacuum. A lot of these cheaper units will not pull sufficient vacuum to get the moisture out of the system. Do some research before you buy.
I have always muddled thru with regular tools otherwise. I do have a clutch tool around here some place but have not used it in 25 years.
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Orifice tube remover. Sometimes needle nose pliers will break the tube. Most never remove it to inspect and clean. They are also the ones that never get really cold duct temps.
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Orifice tube remover. Sometimes needle nose pliers will break the tube. Most never remove it to inspect and clean. They are also the ones that never get really cold duct temps.
I though that replacement was mandatory as the trash seems to pile up in there?
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yes...that will save a lot of grief...been there, got that grief t shirt
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Orifice tube remover. Sometimes needle nose pliers will break the tube. Most never remove it to inspect and clean. They are also the ones that never get really cold duct temps.
I though that replacement was mandatory as the trash seems to pile up in there?
That's funny,, Some order a new turbo before checking if a IC hose blew off :icon_eyes:
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I have the 2nd to most expensive vac pump from HF - pulls a good vacuum, works fine.
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Since we are on the topic of AC, what container could I use to store my R-12 while I swap out accumulators?
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Don't think you can do that without expensive recovery equipment.
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The eqipment wont be an issue. Just not sure what a modern shop could store R-12 in without contaminating one of their tanks with 134 or whatever is being used these days?
I still havent gone to see my friend at the shop but curious what would be needed? :chin:
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Robinair or whatever brand recovery system you have sells specific storage tanks for R12 or R134. Most shops have them.
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The eqipment wont be an issue. Just not sure what a modern shop could store R-12 in without contaminating one of their tanks with 134 or whatever is being used these days?
I still havent gone to see my friend at the shop but curious what would be needed? :chin:
If you've got enough freezer space we used to put a 30 lb cylinder in the freezer for 24 hours and with a good vacuum pump, it would suck it out of the system just fine. :D
As far as equipment goes, my vacuum pump pulls 2.5 CFM and will draw it down to 30 inches of vacuum without any problems. The higher the CFM rating you get the better it will pull the system down. I've also been using a set of harbor freight guages and this is the second set so far. The 1 issue I've had with them is the high side adapter on the 134 set. It seems to leak when not attached. :013: Some systems I don't hook up to the high side because of the high side valve on them so I have to make sure the high valve is closed. :icon_redface:
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I have this model:
http://www.harborfreight.com/25-cfm-vacuum-pump-98076.html (http://www.harborfreight.com/25-cfm-vacuum-pump-98076.html)
There's always a 20% off coupon somewhere..
(http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_18961.jpg)
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That pump is similar to my old auto shut off air brush pump. If I had the artistic talent I could have made some good $$ with that air brush but I was limited to doing marble effects & stickmen!! Still have the Vega 2000 airbrush here somewhere?
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Do we need any r12 r134 adapters for the buick?
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Do we need any r12 r134 adapters for the buick?
Not sure what you'r asking here Dave. :hmm
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If you want to go to 134 from 12 I have the kit with the 2 fittings here I grabbed in the US last year. I don't need it so a couple beers will be enuf payment. The fittings screw on the old 12 fittings then your ready for 134.
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Do we need any r12 r134 adapters for the buick?
Yep. R134 gauges/etc won't connect to the R12 ports.
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What about these:
http://www.harborfreight.com/4-piece-a-c-fuel-line-disconnect-set-98118.html (http://www.harborfreight.com/4-piece-a-c-fuel-line-disconnect-set-98118.html)
(http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_12802.jpg)
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Pretty fancy! Mine just screw on the 12 valve & have a 134 swivel neck. Pretty basic stuff.
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I will go with what CharlieF said - not sure what you are asking. You linked to fuel line disconnects..
Do you mean adapters for the high and low sides? Like these?
http://www.amazon.com/Interdynamics-VA-LH11-Conditioning-Conversion-Adapter/dp/B002G1PC4U/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1340386708&sr=8-8&keywords=r134a+adapter+kit (http://www.amazon.com/Interdynamics-VA-LH11-Conditioning-Conversion-Adapter/dp/B002G1PC4U/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1340386708&sr=8-8&keywords=r134a+adapter+kit)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31Cns0R9QaL._SS500_.jpg)
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I will go with what CharlieF said - not sure what you are asking. You linked to fuel line disconnects..
Do you mean adapters for the high and low sides? Like these?
http://www.amazon.com/Interdynamics-VA-LH11-Conditioning-Conversion-Adapter/dp/B002G1PC4U/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1340386708&sr=8-8&keywords=r134a+adapter+kit (http://www.amazon.com/Interdynamics-VA-LH11-Conditioning-Conversion-Adapter/dp/B002G1PC4U/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1340386708&sr=8-8&keywords=r134a+adapter+kit)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31Cns0R9QaL._SS500_.jpg)
My kit is similar to that. except I needed the plastic top for the Denali 134 so I grabbed the whole kit at wallyworld USA for $12 The rest is just collecting dust.
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When I did a search for AC tools those multi-colored anodized things popped up.
Asking if they are needed? Some weird line to component fittings?
So I gather from your discussion any car that has been converted has adapters installed.
If not then you need them.
Does the manifold come with fittings for the cans of 134?
What about the alternates: freeze-12 etc. Different fittings again?
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When I did a search for AC tools those multi-colored anodized things popped up.
Asking if they are needed? Some weird line to component fittings?
So I gather from your discussion any car that has been converted has adapters installed.
If not then you need them.
Does the manifold come with fittings for the cans of 134?
What about the alternates: freeze-12 etc. Different fittings again?
I believe the pretty tools from HF are for Ford A/C lines that need a special tool to be disconnected/replaced.
You will need a dispensing valve for the can to connect to the gauges, like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Interdynamics-Dispensing-Valve-for-R-134a/dp/B0007ZAJ5E/ref=sr_1_21?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1340388804&sr=1-21&keywords=r-134a+interdynamics (http://www.amazon.com/Interdynamics-Dispensing-Valve-for-R-134a/dp/B0007ZAJ5E/ref=sr_1_21?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1340388804&sr=1-21&keywords=r-134a+interdynamics)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61G63Y7J0GL._SL500_AA300_.gif)
I think anything with "12" in it will have the smaller R-12 fittings. I'm not sure though
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Well seems I have 2 sets of those as well since I have a slow leak in the Denali. You can also just buy the big cans of 134 that come with a built in guage in the line for under $20 at wallyworld USA. I have some of those as well.
No I don't Hoard stuff!!!!
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Well a ford is one of the three broken cars so I guess I need those too....
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So, my new manifold connects to the GN's low side fine. (134a)
High side connector on the car seems much too small for the R134a HS
Is that an R12 fitting? where so I get an adapter for that back to 134a?
Everything for sale seems to go in the other direction?
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Pics would help here Dave. :hmm
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If working with small cans this can tap tool works great. Fast easy and no other adapters needed.
(http://www.dieselgiant.com/3waycantap.JPG)
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So, my new manifold connects to the GN's low side fine. (134a)
High side connector on the car seems much too small for the R134a HS
Is that an R12 fitting? where so I get an adapter for that back to 134a?
Everything for sale seems to go in the other direction?
134A uses larger, quick release fittings on both low and high pressure sides. The original R12 fittings on our cars are smaller and screw on. You can buy adapters that screw on the original fittings that are quick connect to match your R134A gauge hose ends.
Think I also have a set of adapters that fit my old R12 gauge/hoses that convert them to 134A if I feel like swinging that way. One of my cars had been converted before I bought it and had a 134A adapter on the low side and had been left R12 on the high side.......was gender confused, I guess
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Dave I have the 12-134 quick connect/disconnect here brand new in the package.
A six pack will cover it. :atbeer:
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134A uses larger, quick release fittings on both low and high pressure sides. The original R12 fittings on our cars are smaller and screw on. You can buy adapters that screw on the original fittings that are quick connect to match your R134A gauge hose ends.
Do you lose the charge when you change those connectors?
One of my cars had been converted before I bought it and had a 134A adapter on the low side and had been left R12 on the high side.......was gender confused, I guess
I think this is what I have too. Must be common~ish
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no...they have a schraeder valve built into them...
Unless my memory is even worse than I know
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Is the schraeder really below the threads on the bottom of the quick connect nipple?
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I believe they have a button that depresses the original valve while containing a new valve in the top....might be wrong
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I think I am wrong. I think the last set I did was when I replaced the evaporator on one of my cars and the system was empty. I unscrewed the valve and then installed the adapter...I think...better ask someone else
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Mine look like a screw on & they are permanent I think but been a year since I read the package? It says for 12-134 conversion with quick connect?? Looks like an experiment is in order! :player:
Maybe I should grab them from the shop & read the directions again!! :chin:
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Reluctant to go to far without the high side measured but at least I've bumped it up past the 24lbs where it was cycling and not too cool at all.
Tables suggest at these temps 40lbs is not unreasonable? I'm a bit chicken to go that far.
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How much R134a did you put in the system?
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and are we talking about a Buick, or another car?
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This is the Buick. Guessing I added 3-4oz.
The F150 is still just a big pile of rockauto packages.
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Not sure how you are measuring but 3-4 oz is not enough. Our systems hold around 3.25 lbs of R12. Usually 3 1lb cans of R12 would work fine. R134A will be 20% less on a fill. I would add 3 1lb cans of R134a and purge out some from the high side. This will allow some of the moisture/air to escape.
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Not sure how you are measuring but 3-4 oz is not enough. Our systems hold around 3.25 lbs of R12. Usually 3 1lb cans of R12 would work fine. R134A will be 20% less on a fill. I would add 3 1lb cans of R134a and purge out some from the high side. This will allow some of the moisture/air to escape.
Cans of R-134 here are 12 OZ so it will need 4 12 OZ cans. In other words, I'm agreeing with Ed here. :D
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On an empty system, our cars hold 3.25 lbs of freon R12 which is 52 ozs (4.33 small 12 oz cans)
134A normally takes 80-85% of the R12 amount which, on an empty system again, would be ~3.5 of the small 12 oz cans.
I would think your gauges had a temp range "greened" off on the low side...if the compressor is not cycling, and it is in the green...call it good. Pay more attention to the gauge than the "not cycling" It is not unusual for one to cycle at idle but not when the rpm comes up a bit.
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Unless you are adding the freon in a perfect vacuumed system usually you can't get 3.5 cans of R134a in without standing on your head doing tricks. With 3 cans and shy of the required amount I always found I get lower duct temps and high side readings. I've seen duct temps 40* and below doing this.
I like to use the gauges for checking problems, vacuum drops, head pressure but adding freon I rely on lbs and oz's the system requires.
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recap: what I have is a Buick converted to 134a when the compressor was replaced.
Been a couple of years, wasn't cooling worth a d*mn.
I saw 20-24 lbs and cycling when set at max settings.
All I could get this trip was 134a with crap in it, not seen anything locally.
Don't want add too much of that.
Added some - stopped cycling and gives a bit of cool at ~30 lbs
Added some more - better may 65deg at vent with 35lbs
So I guess I'm not doing it the right way, just trying to get by while the truck is down.
Chart on the can says 40-55lbs at these temperatures?
does that sound reasonable?
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Did you adjust the pressure witch for R134a?
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Did you adjust the pressure witch for R134a?
You mean the one on back of the broom? :icon_eyes:
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It's real hard to get it right the way your doing it. The fastest and best results is to evac. the system, check/replace the orfice tube then vacuum down and hold 30in's for a few hours. If it holds the add 3 cans of pure 134A. Now your gauges will show how it working. Make sure your cycle switch is working also as said above.
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don't know what your temps are, but, 40 psi sounds reasonable
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Here is the requested pic- my high side
measures 3/8 across the threads
What fits there?
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THat looks like an R134 connector.
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134A connectors are quick disconnects
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This may help. You need to buy an adapter for your gauge set hose.
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That was one of the stop gap things they did before converting to R-134. It's a high side quick connedt unit used for high speed filling at the factory. Nothing special really and you'll need to find a special adapter to change it over to R-134.
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So I really need an old style R12 fitting that mates to the 1/4 hose flare fitting?
They seem scarce.
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Is this is it?
http://www.tooltopia.com/robinair-10468a.aspx (http://www.tooltopia.com/robinair-10468a.aspx)
(http://www.tooltopia.com/_img/ROB/ROB10468A.jpg)
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Is this is it?
http://www.tooltopia.com/robinair-10468a.aspx (http://www.tooltopia.com/robinair-10468a.aspx)
(http://www.tooltopia.com/_img/ROB/ROB10468A.jpg)
That's the bastard adaptor for the R-12 guage set alright. You've got to remember that originally the high and low sides had the same fittings on them. They made the high side smaller so people wouldn't try to charge on the high side and blow the tank or can up. When they started looking at going with R-134 they came up with that bastard child to keep from blowing refridgerant when removing the charge hose off the high side. Didn't work worth a damn but they tried at least. :rolleyes;
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Mine look similar to the first few pics. But I could take a pic tomorrow if you want or just meet me somewhere & you can try them. Wally World USA with caps etc was under $20
http://autoacrepairs.com/134a%20CONVERSION%20FITTINGS.htm (http://autoacrepairs.com/134a%20CONVERSION%20FITTINGS.htm)
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You are making this awfully difficult.
If you are going to empty the system and suck it down, then put the right fitting on it.
If not, put enuf freon in it to get to 40 psi and forget about it.
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You are making this awfully difficult.
If you are going to empty the system and suck it down, then put the right fitting on it.
If not, put enuf freon in it to get to 40 psi and forget about it.
LOL!! :rofl:
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You are making this awfully difficult.
If you are going to empty the system and suck it down, then put the right fitting on it.
If not, put enuf freon in it to get to 40 psi and forget about it.
LOL!! :rofl:
Well, he IS Canadian..
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Sorry Steve-its one of those "teach a (stupid) man to fish" things.
Thanks for you patience - Charlie and Ed too.
Your irritation has probably saved me at least one 3 hour trip fetching the wrong parts.
I owe many cold beverages all 'round
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Dave, once when I was younger, I had a guy working for me that could not make a decision. I got mad and told him to flip a quarter-heads or tails- to make the decision because if it was wrong, we would soon know it and go the other way. But, at the current rate, we were doomed to be screwed because we had done nothing and the clock was ticking off dollars as we procrastinated .
For the past 25 years, people have reminded me of that conversation. I still have that tendency....I think the medical term is "s**t, or get off the pot"
:D
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I'll drink Steve's beers at BPG so get them nice & cold!! :rock:
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I admit, however, that I tend to research the heck out of things until I am convinced I know what I need to know....thank goodness for google
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I'll drink Steve's beers at BPG so get them nice & cold!! :rock:
I do need to save the first :atbeer: for ED, and however many :atbeer: proxies Steve and Charlie assign him.
:player:
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My engineering team include both extremes , one guy who wants to do a "study" every time and one guy want to machine parts NOW.
They both manage to piss me off so I believe (contrary to forum opinion) I'm actually in between.
:)
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Keep telling yourself that!
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I'm the guy that will fix the bouncing ride without engineering or buying parts. Just open the trunk and put the spare on :icon_lol: