IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: TURBOPOWERED68 on March 30 2012, 08:46:24 AM
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Where is the best place to buy a Denso fuel pump?
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The Supra one? Got mine thru Federated.
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The Supra one? Got mine thru Federated.
got a link?
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Watch out for "copy's" !!!
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You can get Denso pumps at Covin auto parts. I'm not sure what the number is for the Supra pump. I do know you need to do a little fabricating and buy or make a wire harness. Also need a pump strainer/filter. The GN type won't fit. Someone did a full writeup and install on Turbobuick and Turbobuicks a few years ago. Find it and get all the pn #'s and info you need.
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No love for the DeatschWerks?
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No love for the DeatschWerks?
My choice would be Fuellab pumps and accessories
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Some of these pumps can overwhelm the stock return line at idle...don't be surprised if you have to replace it.
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Yep. seen it many times. Even if reusing the stock feed as a new return. After 25 years of shit buildup inside stock lines need to be replaced.
AN-8 should be used as a return for most use
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i have a 5/16 return line.
with a (i think) accufab Fuel pressure regulator.
i was considering ordering the Fuel pump from Racetronix with all the necessary junk to install it.
i decided on the Denso because a well known and respected old Buick guy recommended it.
come to think of it he posted on this thread. HMMMM??????
talk to me guys this one of the last few pieces of my puzzle.
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Dump the 5/16 line, only future problems. Racetronix is fine. Just make sure its a Denso pump and not a replacement as Grumpy mentioned earlier.
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1-Dump the 5/16 line, only future problems. 2-Racetronix is fine. Just make sure its a Denso pump and not a replacement as Grumpy mentioned earlier.
1-You mean run a new return line??? :icon_evil:
2-Thats why i am looking for reputable source- to avoid ending up with a knock-off.
If the Denso requires a larger return line id rather NOT go that route.
What other should i consider that will supply enough fuel but NOT need a new return line??
ALSO
If i do decide to go with a larger return line what size should it be? 1/2 or 5/8 or ??
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Your 5/16 line is 44 years old correct? Get rid of it....
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A 255lph pump would be a stock replacement. I would use a 3/8 return. For the above pumps that are over 275lph I would use AN-8 line which is close to 1/2inch
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Your 5/16 line is 44 years old correct?
ED! You weren't gone quite that long, tho' it did seem like it.
I like the Yin and Yang of the Ed Steve troubleshootin g :)
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If you check the specs, the Denso pump does not put out much more volume at 70 psi than does the Walbro 340...
the problem is at idle when the volume is quite a bit more. It can overwhelm the return line and make it impossible to control the fuel pressure at idle, or normal driving.
If you notice, Eric sells a 340 style pump and suggests a larger return line for just this problem.
In the end, if you are not going faster than high tens, there is nothing wrong with a Walbro. It can be more reliable than one of the chinese imports. In fact, as I recall, Dan was sneaking into the nines, but, he was pumping lotsa alky and supplementing the fuel that way.
(before you tell me how bad Walbros are, let us recall that it was the F numbered pump that had the problem a couple of years ago which Walbro recognized and fixed)
I guess I probably should replace the Walbro in my GN that I installed about 1990, tho.
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for those that are interested in a larger return line, here is Eric's recipe...a few posts down
http://www.turbotweak.com/forum/showthread.php?1968-return-fuel-line.. (http://www.turbotweak.com/forum/showthread.php?1968-return-fuel-line..)
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Your 5/16 line is 44 years old correct? Get rid of it....
its only 6 years old
A 255lph pump would be a stock replacement. I would use a 3/8 return. For the above pumps that are over 275lph I would use AN-8 line which is close to 1/2inch
more work :( :021:
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I like to use this as a guide. Did many this way without problems. This is minimun requirement. If you have bends or 90 deg fittings go to the next level.
Use these figures as a fuel line sizing standard: - Up to 250 HP = 5/16" or -04 AN
- Up to 375 HP = 3/8" or -06 AN
- Up to 700 HP = 1/2" or -08 AN
- Up to 1000 HP = 5/8" or -10 AN
- Up to 1500 HP = 3/4" or -12 AN
Use these ratings to decide your return line sizing based upon fuel pump output: - Up to 45 GPH = 5/16" or -04 AN
- Up to 90 GPH = 3/8" or -06 AN
- Up to 250 GPH = 1/2" or -08 AN
- Up to 450 GPH = 5/8" or -10 AN
- Up to 900 GPH = 3/4"or -12 AN
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Then the factory lines will not work? 3/8" delivery and 5/16" return.....obs ervation over 25 years says differently... but, if you are plumbing from scratch, then it will not hurt to go larger.
Experience seems to indicate the factory set up will work up to 550-600 hp which gets you into the high tens. A bigger pump at the high pressure end will need larger lines...most I have seen went 1/2" on delivery and 3/8" on return...or a higher volume pump on the bottom end will work ok with 3/8" on both sides
Again, if looking for faster than high tens on gas alone, get a bigger pump that has more volume at 70 psi and replumb ...if running alky and not leaving the tens...stock line size will work with a pump similar to a 340
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i have a 340M in there now but its not working too well.
I guess i can go back to another 340M.
could this http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DAC-93036/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DAC-93036/) be used for the return line.
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No, Can't use more then 12 inches of rubber line as per NHRA and also a good rule for the street.
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The 340 will work fine with stock GN size feed and return lines as Steve said. I found 10.80's the limit (no alchy). When I worked with TommyX he was having issues around 10.75 with alchy, 340 pump and stock lines. All is at the end limits. I would step up and play it safe
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Also, it is not rated for Fuel Injection as per the note...
If you run a new line, it should be metal, or covered with brading so it cannot be cut by a flying rock, or such
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The 340 will work fine with stock GN size feed and return lines as Steve said. I found 10.80's the limit (no alchy). When I worked with TommyX he was having issues around 10.75 with alchy, 340 pump and stock lines. All is at the end limits. I would step up and play it safe
Exactly...over kill is always better than underkill.
You can go faster with twin alky, but, you are running a heckuva risk when there is a hiccup and the alky does not make up for the lack of gas.....From what I read, alky pumps need to be rebuilt ever couple of years to maintain performance...
BUT, I think it is very dangerous to try to faster than the upper tens using alky and twin lines are really upping the ante as well as a bitch to tune
Wanta go faster, buy race gas
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OK
i guess i'll have to rethink my fuel system as i am having pipe dreams of a 10.99 pass using Alky and N2O.
So in going back to the drawing board again :013:
and having to run larger lines what would be the con of running two 1/2 inch lines?
Also would the sender's return tube have to be modified/enlarged/replaced?
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Also, it is not rated for Fuel Injection as per the note...
If you run a new line, it should be metal, or covered with brading so it cannot be cut by a flying rock, or such
i figured return line=little to no pressure so the EFI rating wouldn't apply.
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The 340 will work fine with stock GN size feed and return lines as Steve said. I found 10.80's the limit (no alchy). When I worked with TommyX he was having issues around 10.75 with alchy, 340 pump and stock lines. All is at the end limits. I would step up and play it safe
Well like i said pipe dreams of 10.99s with ALKY.
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you should not need NOS to hit 10.99...just a single line alky kit and everything else working right if the turbo is the right size....NOS is one of those complications that can end up costing you a new engine. Stop pipe dreaming and keep it real. A 340 is plenty of fuel for such. No need to try to deviate from what is known to work.
You don't need a larger return line if the fuel pressure adjusts to 43# at idle.
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I would not add NOS to the mix, many more $$$$ issues you would have to address. Tuning alchy and NOS to come in at higher boost will be :013: :013:
If your pump and lines were good I would say go for it. But you need a new pump. The price difference of a larger pump and lines are a lot cheaper then NOS, headgasket changes or a blown motor. Build for a 1/2 second faster for a safety margin.
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you should not need NOS to hit 10.99...just a single line alky kit and everything else working right if the turbo is the right size....NOS is one of those complications that can end up costing you a new engine. Stop pipe dreaming and keep it real. A 340 is plenty of fuel for such. No need to try to deviate from what is known to work.
You don't need a larger return line if the fuel pressure adjusts to 43# at idle.
i guess i can try it (Denso) and see what happens. worst case scenario i end up buying another pump or redoing the fuel lines.
Side note - The Walbro may work but from reading that thread at TB.com i got the impression that they (walbro) new of the problem and 1-continued to sell the pumps. 2-DID NOT issue a RECALL on a known shitty product till AFTER the boards started buzzing about the pumps failing. That said if i can avoid buying a Walbro i will if i can't i can't.
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LOL
You gotta love it
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I would not add NOS to the mix, many more $$$$ issues you would have to address. Tuning alchy and NOS to come in at higher boost will be :013: :013:
If your pump and lines were good I would say go for it. But you need a new pump. The price difference of a larger pump and lines are a lot cheaper then NOS, headgasket changes or a blown motor. Build for a 1/2 second faster for a safety margin.
The N2O is not my main focus right now as it will NOT get used until EVERYTHING ELSE is verified to be in excellent working order. Sorry i mentioned it as its not part of the immediate future.
That 1/2 second faster is a good idea.
I was actually considering a Double pumper system just to never have to touch the damn fuel system again. The only reasons thats not happening is money and only looking for that one miracle 10.99 and realistically staying in the 11.50s range. Not getting a cage.
Back to now
single fuel pump coming soon.
I'll do a little more research on them before i buy anything.
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i want to say Thank you to you guys for taking your time and trying to help me out with these simple issues that i over think and complicate.
Thank You Very much.
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LOL
You gotta love it
Don't get it but there is a lot that i don't get.
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Double pumpers have there own issues. I rather have one good pump then two half ass pumps that will cost about the same.
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Double pumpers have there own issues. I rather have one good pump then two half ass pumps that will cost about the same.
i will definitely go with the ONE pump set up.
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i still haven't purchased a pump as i can't seem to make a decision on which one to go with :icon_eyes:
The good thing about that is that i am not wasting too much gas as i am not going into boost.
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it looks like a Reds XP pump is the one going in.
A friend of mines stocks them and he just got a few in and assigned one to me.
Data Logging
Since i can't go into boost - Bad fuel pump
I'll let the car idle a bit and drive it around with the old pump.
then i'll install the new pump and do the same.
then i'll post up the logs.
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I would not waste my time logging if the pump is bad....just pop the new pump in, check the voltage on the supply side and check the voltage drop across the ground after the install to be sure that is good...and, be sure you tighten the clamps on the hose on the pump so it does not leak in the tank
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I would not waste my time logging if the pump is bad....just pop the new pump in, check the voltage on the supply side and check the voltage drop across the ground after the install to be sure that is good...and, be sure you tighten the clamps on the hose on the pump so it does not leak in the tank
thanks for all the info and advice.
i am also considering running a Ground wire (home run) from the battery to the sending unit.
you know old car rust and por-15 every where.