IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: SuperSix on December 18 2011, 05:20:33 PM
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Finally stopped second guessing myself and got some good work done on the GN..
I prepped all of the lifters and installed them. I think it's the prep I worry about the most. I made sure to burnish in the moly lube on the lifters.
Followed all procedures I could find to do the rest. Cleaned and used a thread chaser on the block bolt holes, used Q-tip to get thread sealant in there, then meticulously put it on the studs. Snugged them gently with an Allen wrench, then backed them out, and tightened them by hand - made sure to use the ARP lube on the washers, nuts, and stud threads (Q-tips work well here too). Torqued the heads to 50, then increments of 10lbs, until 70, then in 5lb increments. Used moly on anything that is metal to metal.
To be honest with you guys, I have never built a motor - hopefully that will explain my cautious attitude.
And of course - pics, PLEASE look at them and tell me what you think..
Thanks
(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z337/Supersix231/87%20Grand%20National/Repair%20pics/P1020341.jpg)
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I think it's snowing in your garage.
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Maye we need to chip in for some Head and Shoulders?
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The only thing I see that's different is I usually chamfer the top of the bolt holes so it doesn't create a riser and cause gasket issues Mark. I also put the timing cover on before the pan. :) Put a couple of squirts of oil in the spark plug holes sot that there's some lube in there to help reduce drag on the pistons when you start to turn it over as well. :D :atbeer:
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How bout backing off the torque a bit, and then retorquing==a couple of times
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I think you need more pics! ;)
Do what Steve mentioned & if you have 2 heat guns you can get the heads to temp a few times & then let them cool down before you retorque. Good article here about half way down under induction. They say do it hot & others say after cooling down. I let mine sit overnite when I did it on my current motor. Either way it's easier on the stand. http://www.hotrod.com/projectbuild/hrdp_0609_project_f_bomb_engine_build/viewall.html (http://www.hotrod.com/projectbuild/hrdp_0609_project_f_bomb_engine_build/viewall.html)
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I think you need more pics! ;)
Do what Steve mentioned & if you have 2 heat guns you can get the heads to temp a few times & then let them cool down before you retorque. Good article here about half way down under induction. http://www.hotrod.com/projectbuild/hrdp_0609_project_f_bomb_engine_build/viewall.html (http://www.hotrod.com/projectbuild/hrdp_0609_project_f_bomb_engine_build/viewall.html)
:)
I used your torque instructions I found in a thread on TBs.com. Thanks!
How bout backing off the torque a bit, and then retorquing==a couple of times
I do this on one stud at a time, correct? Don't loosen all of them and then retorque?
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I think you need more pics! ;)
Do what Steve mentioned & if you have 2 heat guns you can get the heads to temp a few times & then let them cool down before you retorque. Good article here about half way down under induction. http://www.hotrod.com/projectbuild/hrdp_0609_project_f_bomb_engine_build/viewall.html (http://www.hotrod.com/projectbuild/hrdp_0609_project_f_bomb_engine_build/viewall.html)
:)
I used your torque instructions I found in a thread on TBs.com. Thanks!
How bout backing off the torque a bit, and then retorquing==a couple of times
I do this on one stud at a time, correct? Don't loosen all of them and then retorque?
That's how I do it. Altho, I have blown out stock gaskets before so maybe my tune needs attention! :)
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How? One at a time?
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Yes, one at a time & work from the centre out.
I have read that some say to add 4-5 lbs to the longer studs so I usually go a little extra on those ones. just a few lbs.
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I was wondering about that too - the upper outer studs seem a bit too long - not sure if I screwed up..
(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z337/Supersix231/87%20Grand%20National/Repair%20pics/P1020351.jpg)
(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z337/Supersix231/87%20Grand%20National/Repair%20pics/P1020352.jpg)
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The centre ones look a little short? Maybe the pic but looks like 1-2 threads only showing?
years ago I got some Stage 1 studs & they were short on the longer studs. It was a long time ago but I still have them somewhere. I would have to go looking & measure against a new set I have here. I just remember that I couldn't use a washer on 2 of them unless I backed out the stud a couple turns.
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The centre ones look a little short? Maybe the pic but looks like 1-2 threads only showing?
years ago I got some Stage 1 studs & they were short on the longer studs. It was a long time ago but I still have them somewhere. I would have to go looking & measure against a new set I have here. I just remember that I couldn't use a washer on 2 of them unless I backed out the stud a couple turns.
They have the same threads exposed as the smaller pones on the bottom.
I put the 4 shortest on the bottom, 2 next-longer in the upper outside, and 2 longest in the middle top.
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Sounds right to me. I'm sure you won't have any issues. The machine work is critical but the rest is fairly easy with all the info we have on the boards. Some half decent tools & after no leaks break it in with some low boost to seat everything & then drive it like you stole it! ;)
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seat what? modern rings have probably seated before you get it out of the garage.
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As soon as there are no leaks just foot brake until you get a couple lbs of boost. Then keep it under 10 lbs boost for a couple blips down the road. That's how my machine shop told me to do it.
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Damn that's a lot of moly! During the first oil change I'd probably drop the pan and clean out the layer of that stuff that's going to be on the bottom of the pan.
When I built my engine last year I used the minimal amount of moly on my ARP head washers and main studs. When I pulled the engine two months ago to upgrade the head gaskets and inspect the bottom end the pan was covered in that goop. Took almost a whole can of parts cleaner to get my pan cleaned out.
Normally I wouldn't worry about a lubricant laying in the pan but moly molecules are large enough to get caught by the oil filter and put it into bypass. Not what you want when work hardening 12 cam lobes and tappets!
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Which is the reason we always changed the oil right after break in...for fear that the moly and the EOS would restrict the filter.
As far as break in goes, this article is precisely the reason that race engines are broken in on a dyno...unfortu nately, with a flat tappet cam, all the break in of the rings probably occurred during that no load conditions.
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm (http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm)
In the very old days, we were always taught to drive them during break in like we were going to drive the car later...the fastest cars were always the ones that were driven off the dealers floor and stood on....the same with our race engines, put them together and take them out and immediately drive the heck out of them. If it ain't leaking oil, gas, or coolant, it is ready to go.
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Damn that's a lot of moly! During the first oil change I'd probably drop the pan and clean out the layer of that stuff that's going to be on the bottom of the pan.
When I built my engine last year I used the minimal amount of moly on my ARP head washers and main studs. When I pulled the engine two months ago to upgrade the head gaskets and inspect the bottom end the pan was covered in that goop. Took almost a whole can of parts cleaner to get my pan cleaned out.
Normally I wouldn't worry about a lubricant laying in the pan but moly molecules are large enough to get caught by the oil filter and put it into bypass. Not what you want when work hardening 12 cam lobes and tappets!
I didn't put it on THAT heavy, but turning the engine over made it accumulate on the lobes. I am using Joe Gibbs break in oil - and plan to change the oil a few times right out of the box.
Thanks for the link Steve. I hear to break in the cam the motor should be run at ~2k RPM for 20-30 minutes?
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I always run it a bit faster..maybe 2400 rpm, or thereabout. I also blip the throttle a little every couple of minutes. The whole idea is to try to splash plenty of oil on the lobes while spinning the lifters as quickly as possible...by blip, I mean to about 3000 rpm altho I don't look at the tach, or such...just blip it a little.
I really like the Joe Gibbs, and, I would change the filter, but, leave the oil in there otherwise for about 700 miles as extra insurance.
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I always run it a bit faster..maybe 2400 rpm, or thereabout. I also blip the throttle a little every couple of minutes. The whole idea is to try to splash plenty of oil on the lobes while spinning the lifters as quickly as possible...by blip, I mean to about 3000 rpm altho I don't look at the tach, or such...just blip it a little.
I really like the Joe Gibbs, and, I would change the filter, but, leave the oil in there otherwise for about 700 miles as extra insurance.
I have 10 qts of it - maybe first change at 20-30 miles, oil and filter, then ~700 on the 2nd fill?
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seems like a waste of good oil to me...but, if you feel good about it, why not?
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You could always save the oil and put it in your lawn mower Mark. 20 or so minutes wouldn't hurt it for that I would think.:)