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Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: phil_long on December 12 2011, 03:37:21 PM

Title: FP gauge
Post by: phil_long on December 12 2011, 03:37:21 PM
Was looking at some FP gauges, and was curious if the ones on Fullthrottle came with everything(wires etc), or just the gauge.  Also, was checking into getting this hotwire kit, and my mechanic told me to get the one where the relay mounts up front instead of in the back(thought they all mounted upfront).  Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: SuperSix on December 12 2011, 04:05:02 PM
Was looking at some FP gauges, and was curious if the ones on Fullthrottle came with everything(wires etc), or just the gauge.  Also, was checking into getting this hotwire kit, and my mechanic told me to get the one where the relay mounts up front instead of in the back(thought they all mounted upfront).  Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks

They look like regular rail-mount/mechanical style gauges, not electric or lighted...
http://www.fullthrottlespeed.com/items.asp+Cc+FPG (http://www.fullthrottlespeed.com/items.asp+Cc+FPG)

Why would he say that? I guess you could modify the FP wiring kit to move the relay up front - that's where mine is, but it's a home made setup.
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: phil_long on December 12 2011, 04:13:41 PM
I was trying to stay away from the rail mounts, and prefer to mount the gauge inside the car.  And yeah, not really sure why he'd say that...but I don't like looking for things that don't exist.  I'm sitting looking for some hotwire kit labled "front mount relay" or something along the lines of that.  IDK.  Thanks
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: phil_long on December 12 2011, 04:14:17 PM
Oh yeah, should I be looking somewhere else for a FP gauge???
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: SuperSix on December 12 2011, 04:20:33 PM
You would need an isolator, and electric gauge - Summit or Jegs - probably Autometer. Of course you don't want a pressurized fuel line in the interior.
http://www.jegs.com/c/Fuel-Carbs-Intakes_Fuel-Pressure-Gauges/10677/10002/-1 (http://www.jegs.com/c/Fuel-Carbs-Intakes_Fuel-Pressure-Gauges/10677/10002/-1)


Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: phil_long on December 12 2011, 04:57:48 PM
Ah!!!!  Makes a lot of sense.  Although I was thinking about that, I was like, if these other guys are still alive and haven't died by the fumes, then neither would I.  Hahahahahahaha
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: phil_long on December 12 2011, 04:58:11 PM
Thanks Man!!
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: phil_long on December 12 2011, 05:07:07 PM
Geesh, this shit is expensive....t his is ridiculous.  Lol.  Nothing is simple i suppose
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: SuperSix on December 12 2011, 05:41:56 PM
Do you absolutely have to have it visible? You could always mount it in a cup outside the windshield. Then you could use a mechanical gauge.

Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: daveismissing on December 12 2011, 07:08:51 PM
A few of the locals have these, tuck them under if not tuning

http://www.metcomotorsports.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MFP0003 (http://www.metcomotorsports.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MFP0003)
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: Steve Wood on December 12 2011, 07:42:07 PM
I have always used my own versions of the Metco gauge set ups.  On one of my cars now, I have a transducer feeding PowerLogger and it seems to be pretty accurate.
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: Pyro6 on December 13 2011, 09:02:48 AM
I run my gauge with powelogger also. Had an issue getting good transducers. I think Caspers finally had the one that works.
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: SuperSix on December 13 2011, 09:24:16 AM
Yea - if you have a Powerlogger - the transducer would be the best, then you can log the FP during runs.

Seems the Casper's and Autometer 2246 are the same - Casper's includes the harness.

I wonder what car these are in OEM?

http://www.amazon.com/Auto-Meter-2246-Replacement-Sender/dp/B000CIH39Q (http://www.amazon.com/Auto-Meter-2246-Replacement-Sender/dp/B000CIH39Q)

http://www.casperselectronics.com/store2/product_info.php?products_id=941 (http://www.casperselectronics.com/store2/product_info.php?products_id=941)

Thread on TB.com:
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/scan-tool-tech/275150-fuel-pressure-transducer-autometer-vs-caspers.html (http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/scan-tool-tech/275150-fuel-pressure-transducer-autometer-vs-caspers.html)
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: Steve Wood on December 13 2011, 09:27:42 AM
-I don't think either of the above are considered very good.

These appear to have worked well for most   http://motorsportsinnovations.com/WB_Pressure.htm (http://motorsportsinnovations.com/WB_Pressure.htm)
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: daveismissing on December 13 2011, 09:53:00 AM
I have been scouring ebay etc  for a while looking for affordable quality transducers.
Lots of mis-labeled stuff etc.
Accurate industrial units with chemical resistance tend to be in the $150-500 range.
Accuracy doesn't seem to be a prerequisite in the automotive arena.
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: $1987 GN$ on December 13 2011, 10:03:32 AM
I have been scouring ebay etc  for a while looking for affordable quality transducers.
Lots of mis-labeled stuff etc.
Accurate industrial units with chemical resistance tend to be in the $150-500 range.
Accuracy doesn't seem to be a prerequisite in the automotive arena.

This surprises you?

AJ___
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: Steve Wood on December 13 2011, 01:59:09 PM
The one I posted is now $130 so you just saved $20 and did not have to scour anything-I believe Motormouth Mike told me about it so it is Canadian approved as well.  Such a deal
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: daveismissing on December 13 2011, 02:01:09 PM
.. Such a deal

OY?
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: Steve Wood on December 13 2011, 04:17:07 PM
vay!
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: larrym on December 14 2011, 03:18:50 PM
Not sure if this is helpful I use an AEM wide band same style works great.


http://www.aemelectronics.com/fuel-pressure-gauge-0-to-100-psi-761 (http://www.aemelectronics.com/fuel-pressure-gauge-0-to-100-psi-761)

http://www.aemelectronics.com/100-psig-brass-sensor-kit-656 (http://www.aemelectronics.com/100-psig-brass-sensor-kit-656)

http://www.aemelectronics.com/100-psig-stainless-steel-sensor-kit-647 (http://www.aemelectronics.com/100-psig-stainless-steel-sensor-kit-647)





Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: phil_long on December 21 2011, 02:45:51 PM
Do you absolutely have to have it visible? You could always mount it in a cup outside the windshield. Then you could use a mechanical gauge.



I would need it to be visible because I need to see if the FP is rising with boost.  Thanks for all of the replies
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: phil_long on December 21 2011, 02:49:41 PM
A few of the locals have these, tuck them under if not tuning

http://www.metcomotorsports.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MFP0003 (http://www.metcomotorsports.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MFP0003)

This seems like it'd be a good route to go, but what would support it if its above the hood?
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: larrym on December 21 2011, 04:29:31 PM
I use on of these and tape it to the wind shield test the pressure then take it off good for checking my other vehicles too.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Sunpro/885/CP7838/10002/-1?parentProductI (http://www.jegs.com/i/Sunpro/885/CP7838/10002/-1?parentProductI) d=1662067
 
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: SuperSix on December 21 2011, 05:43:18 PM
It probably wouldn't be too hard to fabricate a temp mount for that as well
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: daveismissing on December 21 2011, 06:01:11 PM
A reason the guys like the metco - it is a std braided line with another layer over it. Leakage very unlikely. 
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: phil_long on December 22 2011, 05:01:17 PM
Thanks for all the replies.  I always figured FP was something that needed to be monitored at all times, oppose to just tuning.  But it makes sense, this is the route that i will most likely go.  Thanks again
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: gbsean on December 22 2011, 08:27:57 PM
stay away from the Autometer...ha d nothing but problems with those...use the motor sports innovations one...here is a thread from a board that used to be good http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/buick-v6-turbo-tech/86928-pl-fuel-transducer-issue.html (http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/buick-v6-turbo-tech/86928-pl-fuel-transducer-issue.html)
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: phil_long on December 27 2011, 09:52:20 AM
So, my cousin Charles came over on the weekend, and happened to have a fuel pressure gauge. We plugged it up, and with line on, the FP read out at 60. Line off it was at like 50 or so. The car is pretty much stock outside of an exhaust and air intake. It's pretty sad that my mechanic didnt ever check the FP when the car was there. Oh well. So of course the car was running rich and could possibly explain the sluggishness of how it was running. We adjusted FP and the car seems to run a lot better.  Still have a LOT of tuning to do though, but this is a start.
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: SuperSix on December 27 2011, 09:59:21 AM
Whooooooooooo!!!

Damn good Christmas present. ;)
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: phil_long on December 27 2011, 11:14:16 AM
Whooooooooooo!!!

Damn good Christmas present. ;)

Exactly what i said.  Lol.
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: Steve Wood on December 27 2011, 12:08:56 PM
time to do the mechanic-ing yourself...alm ost impossible to find a non Buick owning mechanic that has a clue
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: phil_long on December 29 2011, 11:52:43 AM
The crazy thing is, this guy is THE buick guy. He's well known in the area for his expertise in TRs.  I'm sure anyone on the board living around the Saint Louis area heard of him.
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: TR Custom Parts on December 30 2011, 08:07:27 AM
We have a complete mechanical fuel pressure gauge kit on our site. http://buickgn.com/fuelpressuregaugekit.htm (http://buickgn.com/fuelpressuregaugekit.htm)
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: SuperSix on December 30 2011, 09:51:05 AM
MARK!

Welcome. :)
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: daveismissing on December 30 2011, 06:33:34 PM
We have a complete mechanical fuel pressure gauge kit on our site. http://buickgn.com/fuelpressuregaugekit.htm (http://buickgn.com/fuelpressuregaugekit.htm)

Welcome Indeed.
I look forward to the time when the cars are running right and I can add some of your "pretty" parts.
:)
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: phil_long on January 04 2012, 09:03:35 AM
We have a complete mechanical fuel pressure gauge kit on our site. http://buickgn.com/fuelpressuregaugekit.htm (http://buickgn.com/fuelpressuregaugekit.htm)

That actually looks pretty cool..might look into it.  Thanks
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: phil_long on January 16 2012, 11:15:55 AM
Ok, so i hadn't really the drove the car since adjusting the fuel pressure, but I did want to check in and let you guys know that after adjusting the FP down to where it should be, I got a code 44.  I read up on Vortex Buicks to see what the cause could potentially be.  Guess my confusion is, with the FP adjusted higher, to where it was, I never got this code 44. Would the higher FP act as like a "band aid"?  Maybe my mechanic had it set that high to avoid this code....IDK.  Just looking for suggestions and understanding. 
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: phil_long on January 16 2012, 11:17:59 AM
And just for a clearer understanding, I KNOW that adjusting the FP higher to avoid the problem is wrong, and I should start looking for the cause elsewhere oppose to FP.  Steve's site mentioned something about the block learn value being at 150, and that's exactly what the scantool is reading.  Car drives like crap too.  Lol
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: phil_long on January 16 2012, 02:05:46 PM
Im not sure if should start another thread for this, or if it's relevant, but, when the car is first started (i believe open loop for stock chip) it runs like crap.  It cuts out under part throttle(in park) and I haven't been able to understand why.  I replaced the TPS a while ago, because I thought that was it, but no change.  The car has been this way since i had it, and i've been through the basics (plugs, wires, etc) and still no change.  Just feel like now it getting worse.  The IAC shows fine when car is warm.  I'm addressing issues now b/c i drove the car to work today, and wanna know what to look for on the ride home so i can give better input..althoug h this defeats the purpose if there's no response by the time i get off.  Lol
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: SuperSix on January 16 2012, 02:18:45 PM
How about something simple like a vacuum leak?
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: phil_long on January 16 2012, 02:45:25 PM
Thats a def possibility as well. I just patched up one a couple of months ago.  I suppose I should re-do all of them to eliminate that possibility?  And I reset the ECM, and the code haven't came back yet.  I drove to McDonald's and back and still no code.  Maybe on the ride home.  Thanks for the suggestion Supersix
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: SuperSix on January 16 2012, 02:54:00 PM
Yes. You should replace all of them, it can't hurt. Check the basics, eliminate the silly stuff first. Make sure to zip tie the ones you can.

Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: Steve Wood on January 16 2012, 03:13:44 PM
Car is not getting enuf gas or it is getting too much air.

Hopefully, the fp gauge you used is accurate.  Turning the fuel pressure up can cover up the problem but it is not a proper fix and can cause other problems.

When the engine is cold, the ecm is running open loop and does not have much ability to adjust to the problem by changing the fueling.

Are you using a factory maf, or a translator/modern maf?  If factory maf, what is the maf reading at idle?

Make sure the O2 sensor is reasonably new.

Check the hoses between the maf and the throttlebody for leaks.

Make sure the pcv hose is not cracked and the pvc is in the intake...make sure it is not gummed up and stuck open as well...it should rattle if you shake it.

Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: phil_long on January 16 2012, 03:32:13 PM
Zip tie the vacuum lines that I can after replacing, got it.  I am using the factory MAF. Do you need readings in open loop or closed loop?  I will check the hoses between the MAF and TB for leaks.  Now, Im not familiar with the PCV hose, although I know I've seen it before. Lol.  Now the PVC being in the intake I'm also unfamiliar with..Sorry.
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: phil_long on January 16 2012, 03:33:54 PM
And the O2 sensor hasn't been changed in at least 2 years.  Didn't think that was something that would go bad that soon.
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: Steve Wood on January 16 2012, 03:37:57 PM
Crank it up, let it idle, tell me the maf reading at idle

PCV hose is the 3/8' hose coming off the vacuum block with all the other vacuum lines.  It goes back a little and down to the pvc which is stuck in straight down in the top of the intake.

O2 should be okay
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: Steve Wood on January 16 2012, 03:44:25 PM
also tell me the idle rpm
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: phil_long on January 16 2012, 03:45:47 PM
Will do.  Today is a pretty light day, so i'll head out now and do it.  As far as the hoses, I'll check for the cracks when i get home. More time and better lighting
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: phil_long on January 16 2012, 03:51:24 PM
Started the car and let idle for about 2 min. The MAF readings started at 07 then increased to 09 and held...
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: phil_long on January 16 2012, 03:52:32 PM
also tell me the idle rpm

Didnt see this until after. BRB
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: phil_long on January 16 2012, 03:58:05 PM
idle RPM started out low(rough) bouncing between 600-675, then eventually increased to bouncing between 750-800, then bounced between 850 to 775..
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: Steve Wood on January 16 2012, 04:46:11 PM
Okay, maf should have read 4-6 so a higher reading than that makes the the computer think the car is too lean and it adds fuel...that is why you are seeing 150 on the blms....

The best route is to install a Translator on the car...or you can try to buy a rebuilt maf and see if it works properly...tha t is hit or miss.  If you go that route, be sure it is built just like the original.  same shape inside and the connector in the same place...don't take one that is necked down inside, or otherwise different.  If it does not read 4-6 at idle, take it back.  If it does, go wide open throttle and see what it reads.  At 15 psi of boost or so, it should read at least 240-245
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: phil_long on January 16 2012, 06:12:35 PM
Ok.  Im assuming the translator is a better setup?  I haven't went WOT with this car in soooo long.  Lol.  Always afraid that something would go wrong. 
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: Steve Wood on January 16 2012, 06:17:35 PM
translator is much more reliable...but, don't buy one of the fancy models..just the plain Jane original model that does not require much learning
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: Steve Wood on January 16 2012, 06:22:24 PM
this one   http://www.turbotweakstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1004 (http://www.turbotweakstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1004)

You can also get a maf same place  http://www.turbotweakstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1005-3%2E0IN (http://www.turbotweakstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1005-3%2E0IN)

or you can go local or junk yard
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: phil_long on January 16 2012, 06:53:48 PM
thanks a lot steve, that'll be the next step i take...to be continued
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: phil_long on January 23 2012, 07:25:25 PM
Hey, just wanted to ask a quick question.  I've been noticing my TC locking and unlocking while cruising.  The way its locking and unlocking isn't normal.  Like, cruising at speeds of 65 and above, its stills lock and unlock.  I noticed this on Saturday, that while cruising at 62-65, the rpms would jump from 2100 to 2300 for no reason at all.  And it's keep going back and forth for a min or two, then lock back.  Could this be one of the driveability issues caused by an uncalibrated MAF?  I'm just curious on what exactly to get excited about when I purchase the translator.  Thanks
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: phil_long on January 23 2012, 07:29:02 PM
And i meant to specify that it locks and unlocks under acceleration and cruising.  I'm use to having to tap the break a little bit while cruising when it's locked to unlock but i havent had to do it...I know I sound redundant, but i want to be sure that I'm being clear b/c i can ramble and easily get off subject...Lol
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: Steve Wood on January 23 2012, 07:35:54 PM
no on the maf relationship.  It should only lock when steady cruising and unlock as soon as you back off the gas or touch the brake.  It may stay locked on gentle acceleration as long as you don't give it too much throttle.
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: phil_long on January 24 2012, 08:54:19 AM
Ok.  So i'm looking at another issue then. Dammit.  Beyond annoying
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: phil_long on January 24 2012, 08:55:32 AM
Any idea as to what can cause the torque converter to act in this manner?
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: Steve Wood on January 24 2012, 09:43:43 AM
from your description, I could not tell if it was acting wrong, or not...

if it is locking and unlocking at a steady cruise with no pedal movement, then I would start with the switch that is activated by the brake pedal...make sure it is adjusted properly and that the brake pedal is not dropping down and pushing on the switch which is the unlock action


if you jump the aldl to lock the converter manually, does it stay locked then?


go thru this   [size=78%]http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/tcc_lockup.htm (http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/tcc_lockup.htm)[/size]
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: phil_long on January 24 2012, 10:49:42 AM
Thanks Steve.  My next step was to go your website.  Got too excited yesterday and instead of looking there, i posted here.  Never attemped to lock it manually though.  Was just posting my diagnosis.  I will go through your site and the proper procedure of finding the problem.  Thanks
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: SuperSix on January 24 2012, 11:11:50 AM
If after following Steve's advice it still acts up while cruising - it may be an electrical issue (broken wire/intermittent connection) or a faulty torque converter solenoid - not too hard to fix, i had that issue many moons ago.
Title: Re: FP gauge
Post by: phil_long on January 24 2012, 11:23:23 AM
Lol. Many moons ago huh?  Lol.  I've always been afraid of dropping the transmission pan though.  Idk why. Guess i was always afraid of spilling all the fluids and stuff.
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