IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: gordyzx9r on August 26 2011, 08:14:32 AM
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Does anyone have a diagram of where all the body bushings are for our Turbo Regals?
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http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/bodygauges/bushings.html (http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/bodygauges/bushings.html)
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Thanks Dave.
Another question, maybe I'm misreading the description of this kit from Prothane:
What exactly is in this kit? Upper and lower bushings/cushions? The GNX bushing (for lack of a better description)? I see the end links and the transmission mount, but what is the rest of that stuff?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PTP-7-2007/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PTP-7-2007/)
(http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/ptp-7-2007_w.jpg)
- 2 - Tie Rod Dust Boots
- 2 - Ball Joint Dust Boot, Large
- 2 - Ball Joint Dust Boot, Small
- 8 - 60353 - Front Sway Bar End Link Bushing
- 8 - Washer
- 2 - Nylon Lock Nut
- 2 - Metal Sleeve
- 2 - Hex Bolt
- 1 - Transmission Mount
- 2 - Threaded Studs
- 2 - Lock Washers
- 2 - Flat Washers
- 2 - Nylock Nuts
- 2 - 60558 - Rear Upper Coil Spring Isolator
- 3 - 19-1705-001 - Super Grease
- 4 - 64060 - Control Arm Bushing With Shell, Small
- 2 - 64066 - Control Arm Bushing With Shell, Large
- 2 - 64148 - Control Arm Bushing With Shell, Medium
- 1 - 19-1705-001 - Super Grease
- 8 - 64037 - Control Arm Bushing with Shell
- 4 - 64038 - Thrust Washer
- 2 - 64039 - Thrust Washer
- 2 - 64040 - Thrust Washer
Or should I get this kit instead:
http://www.prothanesuspensionparts.com/proddetail.asp?prod=7132 (http://www.prothanesuspensionparts.com/proddetail.asp?prod=7132)
(http://www.prothanesuspensionparts.com/prodimages/prothane/PR7132BL_lg.png)
- 2 - 68071 - Lower Body Mount
- 10 - 68072 - Upper Body Mount
- 10 - 68073 - Lower Body Mount
- 2 - 68074 - Upper Body Mount
- 2 - 68075 - Upper Body Mount
- 12 - 64 - 2 1/2"OD X 7/16"ID Washer
- 12 - 1158 - 2"OD X 7/16"ID Washer
- 2 - 60513 - 1"OD X 3/4"ID X 1.750" Metal Sleeve
- 10 - 60730 - 3/4"OD X 7/16"ID X 1.875" Metal Sleeve
Should I get the lower body bushing kit from Kirbans too?
(http://www.kirbanperformance.com/product_images/product_photo-large_image-243100.jpg)
And the body bolt kit:
(http://www.kirbanperformance.com/product_images/product_photo-large_image-243085.jpg)
I think I have a set of these in a box somewhere, but I don't see anything that looks like the "GNX style bushings" in the Prothane kit.
(http://www.kirbanperformance.com/product_images/product_photo-large_image-243083.jpg)
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the red stuff is control arm bushings etc. Personally, I don't like poly because it transmits more noise and may harshen the ride a bit...but, others will surely disagree
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I just realized, the first kit (red) isn't a "body bushing" kit. I think I replaced all of that a couple years back when I put on the front upper and lower tubular A-Arms. If I just want to replace all the factory body bushings I would just need the second kit (black) and new bolts?
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I deliberated on going poly or rubber body bushings. In the end, the Repro Rubber Body Bushings won. Was told that the poly body bushings on the frame would transmit lots of vibration, and ride would be harsh, unless it was primarliy a track car...so went the rubber bushing route.
Glad I did.....had a shop install them ......couldn't be happier....car rides like new again...no more creeks and rattles....is tight as a drum! Seems like less body roll too! Even raised the body approx. 1/2" so now my aftermarket heat shield doesn't touch the pad under the hood. (think my HR PartsNstuff Poly motor & transmission mounts were responsible for this problem).
I installed them all (including the GNX #5 bushing).
This is bar non....the best bang for my buck that I've found.
Good Luck.
dave
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I deliberated on going poly or rubber body bushings. In the end, the Repro Rubber Body Bushings won. Was told that the poly body bushings on the frame would transmit lots of vibration, and ride would be harsh, unless it was primarliy a track car...so went the rubber bushing route.
Glad I did.....had a shop install them ......couldn't be happier....car rides like new again...no more creeks and rattles....is tight as a drum! Seems like less body roll too! Even raised the body approx. 1/2" so now my aftermarket heat shield doesn't touch the pad under the hood. (think my HR PartsNstuff Poly motor & transmission mounts were responsible for this problem).
I installed them all (including the GNX #5 bushing).
This is bar non....the best bang for my buck that I've found.
Good Luck.
dave
I plan on replacing mine too - rubber, no poly. Is Kirban's the only place to get them?
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Why does Kirban's kit look like they're brass?
http://www.kirbanperformance.com/product/43851/REPRODUCTION+BODY+MOUNT+BUSHINGS+CUSHIONS+%2822%29+KIT+%237305.html (http://www.kirbanperformance.com/product/43851/REPRODUCTION+BODY+MOUNT+BUSHINGS+CUSHIONS+%2822%29+KIT+%237305.html)
(http://www.kirbanperformance.com/product_images/product_photo-large_image-243094.jpg)
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That's not brass, it's a cadmium plating for rust resistance.
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Well, based off the rubber vs poly/urethane debates I've been reading I think I'll play it safe and go with rubber.
I'm ordering the 22 piece reproduction kit from Kirban's, the radiator core support bushings, new bolts, and a few of the body mount frame repair washers just in case. And while I'm at it I'm ordering the brass brake proportioning valve, the gasket set, front seal, and rear main seal.
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I've been debating this myself. There are 2 versions of poly bushings out right now. A regular poly bushing and a softer one. I really don't want to go with rubber myself due to the time and heat it takes to break them down. Rubber breaks down much faster but poly lasts longer. I'll be going with poly because of this.
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My car is a pampered fair weather weekend warrior garage queen that lives a better life than some people do...
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I've been debating this myself. There are 2 versions of poly bushings out right now. A regular poly bushing and a softer one. I really don't want to go with rubber myself due to the time and heat it takes to break them down. Rubber breaks down much faster but poly lasts longer. I'll be going with poly because of this.
I was wondering about that - if there was a "middle ground" between stockish rubber ones like Kirban sells, and hard poly.
I assume the softer poly is an Energy Suspension part? What part number?
And do those kits include the radiator support bushings?
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I was wondering about that - if there was a "middle ground" between stockish rubber ones like Kirban sells, and hard poly.
I assume the softer poly is an Energy Suspension part? What part number?
And do those kits include the radiator support bushings?
Don't have the part number Mark but Summit has the softer ones and I believe they're Energy suspension parts. The bushings in my axle ears are also the softer ones but I got them from Speedway. They don't have the body bushings it seems though.
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I was wondering about that - if there was a "middle ground" between stockish rubber ones like Kirban sells, and hard poly.
I assume the softer poly is an Energy Suspension part? What part number?
And do those kits include the radiator support bushings?
Don't have the part number Mark but Summit has the softer ones and I believe they're Energy suspension parts. The bushings in my axle ears are also the softer ones but I got them from Speedway. They don't have the body bushings it seems though.
I got the idea from the Moog "performance" control arm bushings that i bought, they are a soft poly.
i can only find one PN for Gbody - 3-4141G and 3-4141R, same kit, different colors. No other listing for a different composition or anything.
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awesome! I just got on to ask a body bushing question and you guys already got it going, lol!
my question is, is the gnx bushing 2 of them or just one? I see 2 holes the same size in that area above the rear differential.
I'm in the process of doing all body bushings and new fuel/brake lines. I went with the energy poly cause I never want to bother replacing again. yes I know it stiffens up and may cause rattles, but this is a performance car and I like to push his thing through hard turns once in awhile. the frames on these things seem to flex so much anyway.
I'm all for anymore input though
one more thing, anyone agree that the front gm frame braces they put on the Monte Carlos are pretty much pointless? given the monstrosity of the engine cradle right there, I just don't see how there would be any twist at all in the front frame
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awesome! I just got on to ask a body bushing question and you guys already got it going, lol!
my question is, is the gnx bushing 2 of them or just one? I see 2 holes the same size in that area above the rear differential.
I'm in the process of doing all body bushings and new fuel/brake lines. I went with the energy poly cause I never want to bother replacing again. yes I know it stiffens up and may cause rattles, but this is a performance car and I like to push his thing through hard turns once in awhile. the frames on these things seem to flex so much anyway.
I'm all for anymore input though
one more thing, anyone agree that the front gm frame braces they put on the Monte Carlos are pretty much pointless? given the monstrosity of the engine cradle right there, I just don't see how there would be any twist at all in the front frame
I think it's 2 bushings, from what I have read.
http://www.kirbanperformance.com/product/43851/REPRODUCTION+BODY+MOUNT+BUSHINGS+CUSHIONS+%2822%29+KIT+%237305.html (http://www.kirbanperformance.com/product/43851/REPRODUCTION+BODY+MOUNT+BUSHINGS+CUSHIONS+%2822%29+KIT+%237305.html)
As far as the Monte braces - do you mean the lower jounce bars? I thin they do indeed make a difference,or GM wouldn't have put them on any GBody cars. Eliminating any chassis flex is a good thing - a full complement of the jounce bars, struts, and fender braces will tighten the car up a good amount. And aside from the minimal weight gain, how could it hurt?
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Well, the GN goes in tomorrow to have the bushings replaced...hop efully this doesn't turn into another fiasco. Are there instructions for the radiator support bushings anywhere out there?
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All the bushings are replaced, to include the radiator supports. Took them 3 hours. Noticeable difference.
Left side is up about a 1/2". and the right went up about a 1/4".
I'll take pics of the old bushings...the y're trashed on the left side, not so bad on the right. I was shocked to see that the "GNX" bushings above the rear end were in there. I've never had them done. The only thing I ever did was install the lower bushings.
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How much did they charge for that service?
You sued the Kirban set, right?
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How much did they charge for that service?
You sued the Kirban set, right?
$204 for the installation. I used the Kirban Reproduction set, the Kirban hardware, and the Kirban Radiator Support Bushings. It went pretty smooth. I could have reused the original hardware. Only hiccup was one of the nut plates on the right side in front of the rear tire gave out and had to be tapped to use a larger diameter bolt.
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that's cheap.
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Here are the pics. In the first pic, those are off the left side of the car...and they are trashed. The ones from the right side looked considerably better than those. The radiator support mounts actually didn't look that bad either. They could have easily done this in two hours but they were treating the car with kid gloves and being very cautious. They let me watch the whole process and we got to talking allot so I'm sure I was a distraction and ate some time there as well. I think I got cut a deal just because of the car being what it is.
They have a very nice shop. I never even realized it was here because it's kind of out of the way. I found it because the first body shop I went to, recommended another body shop, and that body shop recommended these guys. They have a very nice shop, clean (meticulously clean), very modern, and the staff is exceptional: http://www.promasterautomotive.com/ (http://www.promasterautomotive.com/)
I was told that they do allot of performance work on Mustangs and Ford Diesel trucks.
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i've just installed all new bushings in mine. I haven't torqued down the bolts yet. How do i check body alignment? I wonder how they did it at the factory? I'm guessing they may have used guage blocks?
I just lifted each side of the body about 3" at a time. peace a cake.
I've measured from rim to inner quarter.
anybody know of a specific procedure?
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Well...another issue just came up.
Since I've had the bushings done, I hadn't noticed anything weird. But when I loaded the car up in the trailer, trucked it 5 hours, and unloaded...voi la! The bumper took a bite out of the left and right front bumper fillers at each top corner just below the lip of the bumper. WTF!?! It never ends, I love these cars...
Anyways, he said he'd check it out for me and when he put it on the lift and started to raise it...sure enough, the bumper came down on the front fillers.
What could cause that? Maybe they put the radiator core support bushings on the wrong way?
I ordered two new GM bumper fillers from NOS4GN along with some other stuff but hopefully he can track down what's 'causing this. Just looking for ideas to pass along...
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They took the bumper off when they did the bushings?
Put all the shims back?
You have already done the fillers once?
These are not OEM fillers?
Changed bumper support for aluminum?
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They took the bumper off when they did the bushings?
Put all the shims back?
You have already done the fillers once?
These are not OEM fillers?
Changed bumper support for aluminum?
They took the bumper off when they did the bushings?
Put all the shims back?
You have already done the fillers once?
These are not OEM fillers?
Changed bumper support for aluminum?
Yes, the bumper was removed.
Shims? The only thing they removed was the old bushings and hardware and replace them with the new ones.
Yes, I've replaced the fillers with fiberglass-plastic resin ones, but decided to go with the GM fronts that NOS4GN is selling to replace these "bitten" ones (once we figure out why they're getting bit).
Yes, I put on front and rear aluminum bumper supports.
We checked the radiator support mounts and they were installed properly. He's going to pull the motor tomorrow and then check the rest of the bolts to see if one or more weren't tightened down properly or if they put the two short ones in the wrong spot.
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I was speaking of the shims that push the bumper forward,
( I think my car has 3 on one side, I added one when I went aluminum) perhaps leaving them out pulls the bumper too tight to the fillers? Seems you have changed out a whole lot of stuff over time, when was the last time you stressed the suspension/chassis in this same way that caused the "bites"?
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I was speaking of the shims that push the bumper forward,
( I think my car has 3 on one side, I added one when I went aluminum) perhaps leaving them out pulls the bumper too tight to the fillers? Seems you have changed out a whole lot of stuff over time, when was the last time you stressed the suspension/chassis in this same way that caused the "bites"?
I was thinking about that too. When the bushings were replaced, the bumpers were removed with the car on the lift, and put back on with the car still on the life. After that, the only "stress" has been getting the car in and out of the driveway...whi ch I have to put ramps down for or it'll scrape the air dams.
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No shims...
The front bumper was adjusted all the way down...
The radiator core support hardware was put in the wrong way...
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No shims...
The front bumper was adjusted all the way down...
The radiator core support hardware was put in the wrong way...
Glad you found the problem...
Can you repair the damaged fillers?
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No shims...
The front bumper was adjusted all the way down...
The radiator core support hardware was put in the wrong way...
Glad you found the problem...
Can you repair the damaged fillers?
I ordered a new set of GM fronts from NOS4GN. Will get them sprayed and put them on. In the meantime, while the motor is out he's going to pull off the front bumper, take off the damaged ones, and take out the radiator shroud so we can mount the GNS shroud. I'll take the damaged ones and have them stripped and sprayed white for the white car.
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No shims...
The front bumper was adjusted all the way down...
The radiator core support hardware was put in the wrong way...
Glad you found the problem...
Can you repair the damaged fillers?
I ordered a new set of GM fronts from NOS4GN. Will get them sprayed and put them on. In the meantime, while the motor is out he's going to pull off the front bumper, take off the damaged ones, and take out the radiator shroud so we can mount the GNS shroud. I'll take the damaged ones and have them stripped and sprayed white for the white car.
Sweet.
The son and I put new front fiberglass ones on the 87 T. I think they are old Danco's, I have had them for years, finally put them on. Overall, I was surprised they fit so well, the only issue bugging me is the gar between the top of the bumper and the filler - we have the bumper adjusted all the way down, and there's still a big gap.