IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: SuperSix on August 20 2011, 11:51:51 PM
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For year the 87 T has had an irritating tip-in stumble coming off of idle. I know the TPS is spot on, so it wasn't that. All vacuum lines are good, etc..
The 87 T had an odd MAF Translator. I got it in a trade for services many years ago. I noticed the Translator had an odd pigtail coming out of it, but didn't think much of it. When I was in BG in 2005, I found Bob and asked him about it. Somehow I had gotten one of his preproduction test units, and the spare leads were for a spark/timing module he was fiddling with. (Pics below) I had it hooked to to a 3" LS1 MAF. Whoa - I just noticed it's a Beta Translator Plus.. :O Is there a way to flash these? Maybe an updated PROM? I PM'd Bob on TB.com - no reply..
Ok, I just studied it,and mine has 2 wires that other "regular" units don't. Note the blue and brown wires coming out at the top of the PCB. I noticed this unit has a dial unit labeled "RETARD". Odd. Or maybe it was a custom model for Norbs? :P Production comparison pic posted at the end of this post.
Well, today, while recharging the A/C on the 87T, I remembered that I got a stock GN MAF in the 87 GN I recently bought. I figured I may as well see if it works. Pulled out MAF Translator, LS1 MAF and air filter, cobbled together the right hoses and such, and put the GM MAF on. I fully expected the MAF to be bad.
No more stumble, runs MUCH stronger.
Maybe I had the MAF Translator set up wrong, I'm not sure. I may pot the Powerlogger in the 87T to check it out..
(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z337/Supersix231/2011-08-20233636.jpg)
Comparison pic:
(http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/attachments/parts-sale/77310d1246847110-translator-plus-maf-img_1695.jpg)
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Two of the dials say spark...wonder ing if the timing was retarded...thi s causing the car to feel lazy.
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I had one of those T+'s also. Ran it for years. Never got the retard feature to quite work right, so I just left the two wires disconnected all these years.
Yes your unit can be upgraded, but takes a new chip (the big one). I upgraded mine last year with a 6.25 chip, and it's still being used succesfully in another car.
Long story short, get an update chip from Bob, and yours should be good to go. Set the retard knob to 0 just in case.
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Hard to understand Bob's upgrade policy. He won't do Scanmasters anymore but he does these?
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Hard to understand Bob's upgrade policy. He won't do Scanmasters anymore but he does these?
Whiner
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Two of the dials say spark...wonder ing if the timing was retarded...thi s causing the car to feel lazy.
Honestly, I'm not sure if it was set correctly from the start - I may read the directions this time. :)
I had one of those T+'s also. Ran it for years. Never got the retard feature to quite work right, so I just left the two wires disconnected all these years.
Yes your unit can be upgraded, but takes a new chip (the big one). I upgraded mine last year with a 6.25 chip, and it's still being used succesfully in another car.
Long story short, get an update chip from Bob, and yours should be good to go. Set the retard knob to 0 just in case.
Strange - maybe they were early units or something. I see the upgrade for sale for $30.00. I need that, and a case cover. The cover is what I PMd Bob about and got now response. I will email and see if I can get a cover shipped with the upgrade chip.
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He uses off the shelf cases anyways.
I sourced a scanmaster "shell" for a local who melted his.
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He uses off the shelf cases anyways.
I sourced a scanmaster "shell" for a local who melted his.
I figured they were standard project cases - thought it would be easier to get it from him. I'm sure I can get one along with the upgrade chip.
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Two of the dials say spark...wonder ing if the timing was retarded...thi s causing the car to feel lazy.
I never had the spark portion plugged in. Not sure if I will.
After looking at it again with fresh eyes (And it's bright enough for me to read the dials) I had the MAF size set wrong, had it set for a 3.5" MAF. I'll fiddle with it on the car later.
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Who is Bob?
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Who is Bob?
Bob Bailey - the guru behind MAF translators, Powerlogger, and Scanmaster I think
Here's the other old school translator I have. Bought it as a back up, it's never been hooked up. Version 1.0, SN 52. :D
(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z337/Supersix231/2011-08-21100910.jpg)
(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z337/Supersix231/2011-08-21100931.jpg)
(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z337/Supersix231/2011-08-21100948.jpg)
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I have an early version somewhere around here that I never used. Maybe I should get an upgrade chip if available for it and give it to someone.
The trick to the Translator is to carefully read the instructions and then make sure you are looking at the adjustment tables correctly. It was very easy to read them wrong. It was very common on the early ones to have to set the dials for a 3.5 to get a 3.0 to work better, or vice versa. I have not helped anyone with one in years. The later revisions seemed to be dialed in a lot better as would be expected.
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I don't see the switches for the different chips. Does it work for all chips...or just for Bobs?
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I don't see the switches for the different chips. Does it work for all chips...or just for Bobs?
No idea. The "instructions" just have MAF Base and MAF WOT settings.
I assume that since it's so old, it's chip independent? I would be using his with an old Jim Testa chip that I am currently using in the 87 T. I will be using the T+ with a TT on the GN.
Or I may stick with the factory MAF on the 87 T...
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I was investigating last year- I think one really wants a ver 5.x or 6.x at least.
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I was investigating last year- I think one really wants a ver 5.x or 6.x at least.
6.2 is the latest, this thing is 4.01. I will be getting the upgrade chip for sure.
After looking at it, I would like to get an all new case - whoever had it before cut off the mounting ears..
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It will work with all chips...there are some small dip switches that are set to on, on, on, off or on, on, off, off, and other permuations depending upon which chip you are running.
The plain jane Translator is a great product. The Translator T+ which had a timing variation option in it with a couple of extra dials seemed to often throw a code 42 for some reason.
Modern chips have eliminated the need for some of the functions, in my opinion, but the basic Translator is one of the great innovations in the Buick hobby because it allows one to run a modern, almost trouble-free, maf and obtain better drivability than a large percentage of the rebuilts do. Most rebuilts are not properly calibrated for turbo cars, and often they are not even the correct maf body for our cars if you look thru them. Sometimes they work seemingly okay for a stock car, but, they make lousy foundations for a car with increased boost, etc as they are not metering air flow closely enuf
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I don't see the switches for the different chips. Does it work for all chips...or just for Bobs?
There are no chip select switches. Almost any chip will work with the translator, BUT..... To take advantage of the MAF WOT switch you need to run and Extender chip.
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Bob Bailey - the guru behind MAF translators, Powerlogger, and Scanmaster I think
I had always thought Full Throttle made the Scanmaster and Powerlogger...
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Bob Bailey designs/builds, Fullthrottle markets/sells.
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so who would you send it to to get it upgraded and checked out to see if its working ok?I have one that i would like to use but i know nothing about it.It was included in a box of parts when i bought my car.
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Full Throttle
are you talking about Translator or SM?
You can start with the revision number to see how up to date it is with the Translator
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Its a translater.On the circuit board it says its a plus but doesnt have any knobs to adjust the timing.the circuit board also its says its rev 1.1 but the cover says its a version 4.0.Its dated 1999.I would just like to have it checked out seeing i have no idea if it works or not.
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I am sure it works, but, there has been a lot of minor changes in them...so, if I were going to use it, I would ask what it would cost to have it upgraded. Somewhere around here, I have a new one of that vintage..never used it.
Modern chips pretty much eliminate the need for timing in them and that feature seemed to cause problems for some