IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: gordyzx9r on August 13 2011, 11:46:22 AM
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I bought a set of Champion Ported Cast Iron Cylinder heads, ARP studs, gaskets, push rods, a and a PTE turbo saver. I'm gonna be taking it up to Bill Ragland's and I'm gonna help him with the installation.
We're going to pull the motor, so I figured might as well change the rear main seal and he said to go ahead and change out the timing chain since I still have the original one. I have everything for the timing chain, but any recommendation s for the rear main?
And I need to find a catalytic converter that will fit on my ATR exhaust in lieu of the "race" pipe I have on there now.
We're also going to attempt to replace all the body bushings while we're at it.
He's on the fence about replacing the cam. He thinks it should be fine since I don't beat on the car but you never know until you open it up. I'm considering purchasing one just in case. Recommendation s?
We're also going to put together a pre-luber for it as well I think.
Anything else to consider while the motor is out? Keep in mind, limited time. Maybe two weeks tops.
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Replace the freeze plugs, maybe reseal the allen plugs in the back of the motor. I don't think there's a lot of differences with rear main kits - stick with Fel Pro or Victor Reinz.
How about doing the front cover oil modifications while it's out?
Steve's got info on that. (Of course)
http://ihadav8.com/forum/VortexBuicks/frontcover.htm (http://ihadav8.com/forum/VortexBuicks/frontcover.htm)
http://ihadav8.com/forum/VortexBuicks/Oilpump.htm (http://ihadav8.com/forum/VortexBuicks/Oilpump.htm)
Maybe replace crank sensor since you're in there?
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Replace the freeze plugs, maybe reseal the allen plugs in the back of the motor. I don't think there's a lot of differences with rear main kits - stick with Fel Pro or Victor Reinz.
How about doing the front cover oil modifications while it's out?
Steve's got info on that. (Of course)
http://ihadav8.com/forum/VortexBuicks/frontcover.htm (http://ihadav8.com/forum/VortexBuicks/frontcover.htm)
http://ihadav8.com/forum/VortexBuicks/Oilpump.htm (http://ihadav8.com/forum/VortexBuicks/Oilpump.htm)
Maybe replace crank sensor since you're in there?
Cranks sensor was replaced not too long ago. I have a complete cover that was worked by Earl Brown.
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I would examine the lifters and cam and if there is no obvious wear..put it back in. Lifters on correct lobes, of course
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If the valvetrain is quiet...then I'd leave the cam alone.
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Replace the freeze plugs, maybe reseal the allen plugs in the back of the motor. I don't think there's a lot of differences with rear main kits - stick with Fel Pro or Victor Reinz.
What about the neoprene ones that Kirban's and gbodyparts sell? Along with the neoprene timing cover seal?
Trying to get prices on a catalytic converter for this thing.
I have a complete ATR exhaust with ATR SS 1
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Replace the freeze plugs, maybe reseal the allen plugs in the back of the motor. I don't think there's a lot of differences with rear main kits - stick with Fel Pro or Victor Reinz.
What about the neoprene ones that Kirban's and gbodyparts sell? Along with the neoprene timing cover seal?
The cheap Felpro BS40613 is neoprene. Pretty sure all that aren't listed as a rope seal are neoprene.
http://www.turbomagazine.com/features/0010_turp_buick_regal_t_type/photo_08.html (http://www.turbomagazine.com/features/0010_turp_buick_regal_t_type/photo_08.html)
$7.33 at Rock Auto:
http://www.rockauto.com/dbphp/x,catalog,6,partnum,BS40613,d,fel-pro_BS40613.html (http://www.rockauto.com/dbphp/x,catalog,6,partnum,BS40613,d,fel-pro_BS40613.html)
$8.99 at Autozone:
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/_/N-5yc1s?checkfit=true&itemIdentifier=67879 (http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/_/N-5yc1s?checkfit=true&itemIdentifier=67879)
Trying to get prices on a catalytic converter for this thing.
I have a complete ATR exhaust with ATR SS 1
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I stuck the Kirban 3 inch in my car. They(K) warped the 4 bolt flange when they welded it on and I had to grind it back flat.
Spun cats are supposed to be better but they wouldn't pass your visual I suspect.
If I was to do it again I would get a 3 inch magnaflow cat (cheap n stock looking) get a 4 bolt flange
and have a local weld to fit.
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Replace the freeze plugs, maybe reseal the allen plugs in the back of the motor. I don't think there's a lot of differences with rear main kits - stick with Fel Pro or Victor Reinz.
What about the neoprene ones that Kirban's and gbodyparts sell? Along with the neoprene timing cover seal?
Trying to get prices on a catalytic converter for this thing.
I have a complete ATR exhaust with ATR SS 1
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Before you order a cat...install the DP and the exhaust...and then take a measurement between the exhaust flange and the DP. I bought the RJC DP...and after installation.. .the distance was only 10"...so I ended up using their test pipe...because my cat is 13".
The ATR exhaust has been on my car for about 8 years now...lol.
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Replace the freeze plugs, maybe reseal the allen plugs in the back of the motor. I don't think there's a lot of differences with rear main kits - stick with Fel Pro or Victor Reinz.
How about doing the front cover oil modifications while it's out?
Steve's got info on that. (Of course)
http://ihadav8.com/forum/VortexBuicks/frontcover.htm (http://ihadav8.com/forum/VortexBuicks/frontcover.htm)
http://ihadav8.com/forum/VortexBuicks/Oilpump.htm (http://ihadav8.com/forum/VortexBuicks/Oilpump.htm)
Maybe replace crank sensor since you're in there?
If you are doing the core plugs and the galley plugs use generous amount of loctite 271 on them. Just make sure you do not get it in the galley.
AJ___
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A catalytic converter isn't something that has to be TR specific does it? It's not like I have to have one that's specially designed or what not? As long as it's 2.5" and the the length is right? Plus has the flange to bolt up?
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Correct. Some may flow a bit better than others (spun) but generally true.
I chose the 3" so I could leave it on and I figure a regular 3" flows as good or better than a "super" 2.5".
Generic ones may come with an air tube which we leave capped.
Teve can jump in to correct us 'tards...
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Gordy - I thought you were just going to run a cat to get through the smog check?
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Gordy - I thought you were just going to run a cat to get through the smog check?
I don't know...I'm thinking I'd just put one on so I don't have to worry about the random LEO doing a visual. But...for four years the thing was in SoCal and my Dad would take it out once or twice a month and he never once had an LEO look under it; they just gave him the thumbs up whenever they saw it.
The company in CA called today and said that while the interview(s) aren't over yet, that I'm the "top contender". Still have to wait and see when and if they send an offer...
...and to add to my already over clocked brain and active imagination, remember that white T I was thinking of buying? He decided to sell it (again) and is asking less than what he was originally asking for it...my wife is going to shoot me in the head.
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Buy it for her!
My wife's anniversary present-the pearl anniversary.
http://dtekk.com/cars/Quik621.jpg (http://dtekk.com/cars/Quik621.jpg)
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Buy it for her!
My wife's anniversary present-the pearl anniversary.
http://dtekk.com/cars/Quik621.jpg (http://dtekk.com/cars/Quik621.jpg)
She hates the Buick. Mostly because of how much I pamper it and cater to it...the garage is it's domain, and it alone has free reign in there. I won't let her park her Lexus in there because it'd be cutting it too close for my personal comfort level. The GN has a larger than normal amount of personal space that can't be intruded upon :) . The floors in the garage were redone before the floors in the house were and the garage was repainted before any other room was too. If it was up to me our furniture would consist of milk crates, cinder blocks, 2x4s, and air mattresses...
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Ordered a Champion intake today along with some Buick V6 covers for those ported irons I bought...
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Pretty much have everything I think...just ordered an improved ground kit from Casper's along with their fuel pump wiring upgrade kit to replace the Poston's one I have. Also ordered some AMSOIL for the transmission.
Now I just have to wait until a time slot gets open where I can lug the car and all this stuff up to the shop.
Hoping I'm not forgetting anything here...
(http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/11/370244/Buick Grand National/Project Evil/IMG_0248.jpg)
(http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/11/370244/Buick Grand National/Project Evil/IMG_0249.jpg)
(http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/11/370244/Buick Grand National/Project Evil/IMG_0250.jpg)
(http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/11/370244/Buick Grand National/Project Evil/IMG_0252.jpg)
(http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/11/370244/Buick Grand National/Project Evil/IMG_0253.jpg)
(http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/11/370244/Buick Grand National/Project Evil/IMG_0254.jpg)
(http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/11/370244/Buick Grand National/Project Evil/IMG_0256.jpg)
(http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11/11/370244/Buick Grand National/Project Evil/IMG_0257.jpg)
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Where the hell did you get a GM timing set?
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What about the neoprene ones that Kirban's and gbodyparts sell? Along with the neoprene timing cover seal?
You've already got a Fel-Pro neoprene timing cover seal. Make sure to smear some jizz on it so the balancer doesn't beat on it during initial startup.
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Where the hell did you get a GM timing set?
Every so often they pop up on ebay as a complete set.
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Is it a good idea to run them? Doesn't the plastic get brittle being so old?
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Is it a good idea to run them? Doesn't the plastic get brittle being so old?
I'm so busy shoving piston pins through cylinder walls...breaki ng rockers...and pounding rod bearings into tin foil...that mine never gets a chance to get old and brittle.
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Is it a good idea to run them? Doesn't the plastic get brittle being so old?
it has not been subjected to heat and its sealed up...should be near perfect
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Meh - I wouldn't trust one, unless I could verify the MFG date..
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Car is loaded up and headed to the shop...origina lly I had planned to spend two weeks there helping Bill wrench on it so I could actually learn a thing or two while I was on terminal leave waiting for my retirement date. But Trane offered me a position the day I started terminal leave and I just couldn't pass up such an awesome opportunity.
This is what is getting done over the next couple of weeks:
Champion ported cast iron cylinder heads Champion ported OEM intake manifold
Champion Buick V6 valve covers
Champion IAC relocation kit
New Turbo Tweak Chip
ARP studs
Adjustable push rods
Pre-luber
PTE turbo saver
RJC hybrid boost controller
Timing chain
Front cover
Rear main seal
Brake Proportioning Valve
160 degree thermostat
Casper's Improved Engine Ground
Casper's Fuel Pump Wiring Upgrade
AMSOIL Transmission Fluid
Differential Fluid
Gonna have him go through the car and do a spring cleaning (I know it's autumn) as well as check out ever nut/bolt he can get to while it's on a lift.
This is what has currently been done:
AEMC Digital EGT Monitor Aluminum Brake Drums
ATR Adjustable Wastegate Actuator, Billet Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator, Charcoal Canister Relocation Kit, Driveshaft Loop, Heavy Duty Rear Sway Bar, Heavy Duty Transmission Pan, Performance Valve Springs, Polished SS MAF Pipe, Polished SS Throttle Body Inlet Pipe, SS 1
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What's your opinions on powder coating the champion valve covers and the front timing cover?
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So the motor is out...
He doesn't like the Casper's Cam Sensor cap and wants me to send him a new one (which I am...along with the Casper's instructions for their cap so he can see what's it intended for).
My crankshaft sensor was rubbing and "something" fell apart when he went to check it out (I'm not there so I don't know the exact details). So, I'm sending him another one of those too...hoping this was a culprit in an intermittent start issue I occasionally (rarely) experienced.
My gbodyparts lower a-arms apparently weren't welded right and there is a portion where the shock comes down on them...that cracked. He's going to re-weld them. I asked him to have his wife take pictures so I can send them to gbodyparts. They're only a few years old and have less than 500 miles on them.
The radiator support bushing were installed incorrectly... fixed.
He thinks my A/C compressor is seeping oil (not leaking, but there is oil forming)...how much are those bad boys to replace?
He says my bearing is showing normal wear...could last another 10 years, could go to shit in a few hours.
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He replaced the timing chain today...said the old one looked normal wear & tear, nothing broken.
He said the passenger (stock) head was very, very clean...but that he found some metal shavings on the driver's side. He's hoping it was a spring of some kind. Said he'd rip open the oil filter to see what it has to say...
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Delco compressor $239
http://www.nos4gn.com/servlet/the-187/Buick-Grand-National-parts/Detail (http://www.nos4gn.com/servlet/the-187/Buick-Grand-National-parts/Detail)
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Delco compressor $239
http://www.nos4gn.com/servlet/the-187/Buick-Grand-National-parts/Detail (http://www.nos4gn.com/servlet/the-187/Buick-Grand-National-parts/Detail)
$221.00 at Rock..
http://www.rockauto.com/dbphp/prt,315,1520225 (http://www.rockauto.com/dbphp/prt,315,1520225)
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When mine died originally there were no replacements and I was quoted 700 to send it out for rebuild so it all looks good to me.
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Dave when you do the swap I could use the 2 prong Red plug on the back near the top off the old one. Mine works but the connection is touch & go even with the new Caspers plug end that goes to it unless I add a drop of crazy glue to hold it in place. Works fine like that but if you don't need yours I'm interested.
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I reused mine, sorry.
Glen has them now. #9183
http://www.nos4gn.com/servlet/the-625/Buick-Grand-National-AC/Detail (http://www.nos4gn.com/servlet/the-625/Buick-Grand-National-AC/Detail)
You would need to recharge to swap.
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He didn't find anything in the filter at all, though he did say there was some glints of metal in the pan that he wasn't overly concerned about. What he doesn't understand is why there was metal in the drivers side head and not the passenger and why the passenger side was so clean compared to the driver's side. He seems to think that this is the first time the passenger head has ever been removed, but it's definitely not the first time the driver's side has been removed (I've owned the car since '99 and I've never had it removed). He also said my oil screen was half block by lint...
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Cam is bad...went ahead and said screw it, not gonna gamble with the main bearing either and getting a fresh short block, 212/212 cam, etc. Which means I'll have to wait on the white T for a bit until I replenish the fun money account.
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Well...the power antenna is fixed thanks to the new cable/mast from Highway Stars. I had to use a new bracket too...apparent ly, when I had the power antenna motor replaced at the Buick dealership 10 years ago they decided to fabricate their own bracket.
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Motor is in, making adjustments, breaking it in...
I ordered a new TT Chip and the timing was set at 18-19, compared to the old chip which was at 20-21. Only difference when I ordered the chip was the 212/212 cam and the Champion heads/intake. Is that normal timing? We didn't make any changes with the turbo or intercooler, still have the 23 row SMIC and the TA-49 with a 2800 stall l/u.
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And the new motor is out after a lifter wiped out the cam...old motor is going to the machine shop to get freshened up.
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sucks! what lifters?
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what lifters and what springs? It should not be that hard to avoid wiping a lobe on break in. We know the GM lifters were superior to most aftermarket stuff being sold. It would appear that the TA Lifters of today have a hardened base as well. I have also been afraid of using LT1 springs on a new cam tho many have tried to convince me it was no problem.
These days, I would use Joe Gibbs break in oil, but, Amsoil, Brad Penn, and I think some others make break in oils as well. If using a comp cam, you can have it nitrided.
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I'm pretty sure they were GM lifters...
I'm not there. My "plan" was that when I retired to use my 90 days of leave that I accrued to go up there and help him with all of this so I could learn something about these cars... unfortunuately that plan didn't work out because I got hired on by a company and they wanted me to start the day I went on transitional leave from the Army.
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WTF? What oil and which break in lube Gordy? It should make it longer than that even today with the crappy oils.
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Probably not the original GM's as I don't think they have been available for a long time, but, I may well be wrong :)
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AMSOIL I think. But, he's making good on it...he's covering the expenses from now on for everything. He said it was running strong, then it lost all oil pressure. Had hoped it was the plunger/spring, but when he went to pull the motor and took the intake off he saw what had happened to the cam...
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Might be a good time to switch to the TA lifters.
One of the things I ordered when the timing covers were on sale.
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Sorry to hear that news. Sucks...
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That bites! It sure went out fast?? I wonder what took out the oil pressure?
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Metal going thru the system :icon_evil:
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Damn.. Hate to hear it. Especially with my build close to getting fired up! :O
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So my original motor is back from the shop, freshened up...and he's putting it all back together to throw back in for round two.
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Got the car back this weekend...pull s very strong.
Just a quick summary of things I that were done:
Freshened up the stock motor, Comp Cam 206/206, Earl Brown worked front cover, Champion Ported Cast Iron Cylinder heads, Champion Intake, Champion IAC relocation kit, Champion Buick V6 Valve Covers, ARP bolts, Double Roller Timing Chain, TA-52 turbo (the TA 49 developed a leak), UMI front upper and lower A arms, Pre-Luber, PTE Turbo Saver, Brake Proportioning Valve, new 160 degree thermostat, new Knock sensor, new 02 sensor, new cam sensor assembly, new power antenna, new TT chip, new front tires, balance and alignment, purged/replaced every filter/fluid, Casper's Improved Engine Ground, and Casper's Fuel Pump Wiring Upgrade.
There were bolts, nuts, and god knows what else loose all over the car. Allot of things that "turbo regal mechanics" I took it to in the past and said they did things...actua lly hadn't been done. He tightened everything he could find and replaced whatever he found that was missing...
He also put on some nice tie down points...I'll post pics of those later. Made it easier to tie down the car in the trailer.
He thinks my transmission might be developing a slip into 3rd gear...I don't feel it, but I imagine I'll have to have that looked at nonetheless since he's more attuned to these cars than I am. He thinks I should go with a non-L/U instead of the L/U next time around.
I still have about 400 miles to put on it before I can really play with it. Got to get on it from a roll a couple of times and holy crap, it pulls like crazy (snaps your neck).
I could have gone with a bigger turbo, but I really didn't want to change the DP, torque converter, and whatever else that goes with it. Next time.
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Just some pics of a few things that were done.
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You DO have aftermarket brakes, at least the calipers - that's why you have the brake bias valve.
$500 in calipers.
Damn I wish I had found that car first. :)
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You DO have aftermarket brakes, at least the calipers - that's why you have the brake bias valve.
$500 in calipers.
Damn I wish I had found that car first. :)
Those are pics of the GN, not the T-Type...