IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: SuperSix on May 31 2011, 01:16:24 PM
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Since it looks like I won't be getting my turbo from Bryan - I need some turbo recommendation s. The MIA turbo is/was a PT51, that's what was on the car at one point.
I don't have a downpipe either - if that info helps.
I don't plan to competitively race this. Streetability is more important.
Car has:
Motoron 60's
202/202 cam
Pat's 10" 3500 stall converter
Stock IC
Thanks in advance.
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stock heads and stock ic work well with a 49, or a 44. Easy elevens on alky...but, the converter is way too loose for those turbos.
That converter, if it actually stalls in that vicinity, is for something more akin to a 63 or 66 turbo which, in turn, is wasted on stock heads and ic.
For a street car, I would look for something in the 2600-2800 range, or even a stock converter....i t will be a lot more fun to drive and get better mileage to boot.
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stock heads and stock ic work well with a 49, or a 44.
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it is not the elevation per se...it is what a given turbo requires to spool up
A stock converter will be a hair tight, but, if you add a little timing in first/second and lean it down a bit, it will work. It will be fine from a roll.
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Can one get a D5 restalled? Isn't the D5 2800?
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2200 apparently
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/transmission/converters.html
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Maybe send the 10" back to pats and get it restalled?
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7000 ft is a totally different game, I agree. No air is no air.
That turbo was always sluggish from what I recall...and prone to blowing up as well.
The stock converter was a D5 and generally was around 2200. D5 is usually meaningless these days as many were restalled. The GM replacement for it usually stalled around 1800-2000. The restalled 2600-2800's can be from any 12" core so you cannot really make any assumptions from what is stamped on the unit by the factory 25 years ago.
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That converter, if it actually stalls in that vicinity, is for something more akin to a 63 or 66 turbo which, in turn, is wasted on stock heads and ic.
Tell me about it (T63e).
You can do the 63ish turbo on stock heads, however you will end up with diminishing returns as the heads do become quite the limiting factor.
The good news is that I am at 27psi with 25* of timing now that the alky is spraying over the straight 91 and propane.
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Alky *and* propane? Hardcore.
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That converter, if it actually stalls in that vicinity, is for something more akin to a 63 or 66 turbo which, in turn, is wasted on stock heads and ic.
Tell me about it (T63e).
You can do the 63ish turbo on stock heads, however you will end up with diminishing returns as the heads do become quite the limiting factor.
The good news is that I am at 27psi with 25* of timing now that the alky is spraying over the straight 91 and propane.
and, if you have the stock IC, then you are pushing about 33 psi at the turbo which is on the downside of its efficiency.... .
also, if you have a stock cam, it has been dead for about 400 rpm when it reaches 5200 and you have a turbo that will fill the cylinders easily at 6000 rpm. So you have given up about 800-1000 rpm on the low end due to the slushy converter and cannot use the capability of the turbo on the top end....
Combination, combination, combination
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Since it looks like I won't be getting my turbo from Bryan - I need some turbo recommendation s. The MIA turbo is/was a PT51, that's what was on the car at one point.
I don't have a downpipe either - if that info helps.
I don't plan to competitively race this. Streetability is more important.
Car has:
Motoron 60's
202/202 cam
Pat's 10" 3500 stall converter
Stock IC
Thanks in advance.
Check here...
http://ihadav8.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1677&start=15
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Well Damn. Nice.
There's a TE60 local, but I assume that's way too much for my car.
Do you have the inlet bell too?
Make me a deal, mang!
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definitely over kill ...but I have a slightly used turbonetics T-72 ball bearing p trim that I will let go at a reasonable price.
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Well Damn. Nice.
There's a TE60 local, but I assume that's way too much for my car.
Do you have the inlet bell too?
Make me a deal, mang!
I have an inlet bell also.
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Well Damn. Nice.
There's a TE60 local, but I assume that's way too much for my car.
Do you have the inlet bell too?
Make me a deal, mang!
It's a little big...it will work okay, but, best with about a 3000 stall converter.....
It is about the same as the pte 51
a 2800 stall will work with it from a roll, but, will hesitate a little from a standstill
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Try a 54 with a 2800 stall converter, there is just a little lag....
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...I posted in wrong thread...oops!
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Alky *and* propane? Hardcore.
Dude, I haven't even turned on the "bottle" yet... waiting on Bob Bailey to send me a new programme for my MAFT Pro.
and, if you have the stock IC, then you are pushing about 33 psi at the turbo which is on the downside of its efficiency.... .
also, if you have a stock cam, it has been dead for about 400 rpm when it reaches 5200 and you have a turbo that will fill the cylinders easily at 6000 rpm.
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Your ic is irrelevant, we are talking about someone else's car in this thread altho I am glad you have a matching ic for your car :)
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Your ic is irrelevant, we are talking about someone else's car in this thread
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starting your own thread will make you more relevant! :D In general, the point is still that a big turbo shines in output at higher rpm and is weak on the bottom end. With a stock engine, cam, and ic, it simply does not fit-particularly on a street car. Street cars are more fun when they have instant throttle response and power at low rpms....of course, my definition of fun to drive is probably different from yours.
The PTE 51 is the one that blew up so much initially. I don't know if they ever fixed the wheel problem in them that they denied, or not...maybe they just moved onward. Blades tended to wilt from the pics I saw.
When they worked, they did okay...I remember at least one that ran well into the elevens on a stock converter, but, it did seem to be the exception. That was Mike Schoenfeld in a TTA
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I thought the PT52 was the one with exhaust wheel problems.
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I'm wondering if these 60lb are overkill too. Ugh.
yeah, Sylvan. I noticed a 42# TT chip in the trunk - why did you go to 60's?
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But what about gas mileage???
Haha
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Fuck that. I take pride in my massive carbon footprint.
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I thought the PT52 was the one with exhaust wheel problems.
A search should reveal that the 51 was the most reported problem altho the 52 may have used the same wheel as well....
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But what about gas mileage???
Haha
the sixties will give as good, or better, gas mileage as the 42's. It's all in the chip....
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But what about gas mileage???
Haha
the sixties will give as good, or better, gas mileage as the 42's.
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I thought you Brits were lefties?
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I got the PT51 in today - it's roached. A good 1/16th or better shaft play. Not a very popular turbo, not even sure if it's worth paying to get it rebuilt. Oh well.
So - the TA49 is going in, and I will look for a 2800 stall converter.
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And what range is a turbo rebuild? $$$?
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Crappy vids I just took of shaft play on PT51 - click to play (opens in new browser)
(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z337/Supersix231/th_2011-06-13190642.jpg) (http://s1184.photobucket.com/albums/z337/Supersix231/?action=view¤t=2011-06-13190642.mp4)
(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z337/Supersix231/th_2011-06-13190708.jpg) (http://s1184.photobucket.com/albums/z337/Supersix231/?action=view¤t=2011-06-13190708.mp4)
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nice wiggles!
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Impressive
AJ___
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So - if ya care - final config is going to be a TA49, and a stock D5. I need to pull this Pat's out and sell it, need to get the motor running first, methinks.
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Make sure that TA-49 has the Garrett .63 exhaust housing...the Precision .63 is slightly larger...and won't spool up as quick.
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Nice vids of the the original Harry Hand Grenade!!!
Oh and I vote bigger turbo :icon_super:
upgrade those injectors and put a T72 p trim on that monster :w00t:
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Make sure that TA-49 has the Garrett .63 exhaust housing...the Precision .63 is slightly larger...and won't spool up as quick.
Just checked - it is the Garret .63
Nice vids of the the original Harry Hand Grenade!!!
Oh and I vote bigger turbo :icon_super:
upgrade those injectors and put a T72 p trim on that monster :w00t:
Shit - I need to get it back together - still haven't pulled the block and heads out to check them over..
Arranged to get the hoist this week though.
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I posted these in another thread - but there's the exhaust wheel of the PT51.
I still have the turbo, i parts - are the housings worth anything?? :shrug:
(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z337/Supersix231/87%20Grand%20National/Repair%20pics/P1020077.jpg)
(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z337/Supersix231/87%20Grand%20National/Repair%20pics/P1020081.jpg)
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I'm new here and maybe I should not comment.I have ported heads ,int manifold,worked exhaust manifs and a stock cam.My car pulls to 5400 rpm.My car many years ago went 117.5 mph (1650f egt) on a TE34 (56 mm compressor wheel) and stock cam.If you have heads and work done the stock cam is not the slug people think it is.The reason I have a stock cam is because way back when many people had lots of troubles that were cam related.Folks just put these high lift cams in iron heads and just waste energy and pound out there valve seats.
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I'm new here and maybe I should not comment.I have ported heads ,int manifold,worked exhaust manifs and a stock cam.My car pulls to 5400 rpm.My car many years ago went 117.5 mph (1650f egt) on a TE34 (56 mm compressor wheel) and stock cam.If you have heads and work done the stock cam is not the slug people think it is.The reason I have a stock cam is because way back when many people had lots of troubles that were cam related.Folks just put these high lift cams in iron heads and just waste energy and pound out there valve seats.
No, Please do post! All opinions are welcome.
The cam was in the car when I bought it. Other than a cursory visual inspection, I don't know if it's good or not. I guess I could mic it.
How does one see if a cam is damaged, aside from obvious visual clues?
Welcome to the site, ttipe.
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Personally, I would never reuse a flat tappet cam.
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Visual clues are good enuf...look at the bottom of the lifters. If they are scrubbed off, the cam and lifters are bad. This will normally be reflected by the cam lobes which will look funny as well on the lobes affected.
When the lifters are new, they are slightly convex on the bottom. If you set them on a piece of plate glass (plate glass is normally very flat), then they should rock a little rather than sitting perfectly square to the glass.
Nothing wrong with flat tappet cams. Most failures are due to user error on break end and/or cheap chinese lifters which are not hardened. These days lifters are being made in this country but the trick is in knowing if the set you buy is US made, or not. An used cam is generally the safest cam to install if the lifters go back on the original lobes.
It is strange that one hears about the dangers of flat tappet cams but, one seldom sees an actual case of a failure from real engine builders.
Just remember that a lifter has to go back on the lobe it came off. You cannot shuffle used lifters around on different lobes. Instant disaster!!!!!!!!!!!!
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where is the delete button?
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Visual clues are good enuf...look at the bottom of the lifters. If they are scrubbed off, the cam and lifters are bad. This will normally be reflected by the cam lobes which will look funny as well on the lobes affected.
When the lifters are new, they are slightly convex on the bottom. If you set them on a piece of plate glass (plate glass is normally very flat), then they should rock a little rather than sitting perfectly square to the glass.
Nothing wrong with flat tappet cams. Most failures are due to user error on break end and/or cheap chinese lifters which are not hardened. These days lifters are being made in this country but the trick is in knowing if the set you buy is US made, or not. An used cam is generally the safest cam to install if the lifters go back on the original lobes.
It is strange that one hears about the dangers of flat tappet cams but, one seldom sees an actual case of a failure from real engine builders.
Just remember that a lifter has to go back on the lobe it came off. You cannot shuffle used lifters around on different lobes. Instant disaster!!!!!!!!!!!!
great info as always. I haven't taken the lifters out yet, I did make sure the keep the pushrods in the correct order.