IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense

Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: Shimy87 on April 26 2011, 12:12:03 PM

Title: powermaster
Post by: Shimy87 on April 26 2011, 12:12:03 PM

I know alot switch to conventional brakes. I still have the original equipment but reading about failures makes me nervous. Getting car ready for another summer and the powermaster seems to make more noise than it did last year, probably just me but should this thing be making noise at all?? When you step on the pedal it makes noise for a couple seconds.

Thanks for any feedback

Title: Re: powermaster
Post by: SuperSix on April 26 2011, 12:20:31 PM

Quote from: "Shimy87 @ Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:12 am"

I know alot switch to conventional brakes. I still have the original equipment but reading about failures makes me nervous. Getting car ready for another summer and the powermaster seems to make more noise than it did last year, probably just me but should this thing be making noise at all?? When you step on the pedal it makes noise for a couple seconds.

Thanks for any feedback

That's normal - it's the motor compressing brake fluid into the accumulator. It may be either getting worn out, or you are just noticing it more now.

Even if the electrical system fails, you will still have brakes, albeit a very hard pedal.

I am seeing replacement units pop back up on auto parts sites, very expensive, but if the factory look is what you want - it may be worth it. I would swap to vacuum and never look back, but I don't care about stock appearance.

Have you ever replaced the accumulator ball?

Title: powermaster
Post by: SuperSix on April 26 2011, 12:23:03 PM

$600 seems high, but it's a pretty important part. :)

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Cardone-Reman-Brake-Power-Booster/1987-Buick-Regal/_/N-iidqmZ8kn7z?counter=2&itemIdentifier=38996_0_4837_88626

Title: powermaster
Post by: SuperSix on April 26 2011, 12:26:59 PM

Jesus Tap Dancing Christ - $317 for JUST the accumulator ball? Yikes.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Cardone-Reman-Brake-Power-Booster/_/N-8kn7z?itemIdentifier=995776&_requestid=1573870

Title: powermaster
Post by: daveismissing on April 26 2011, 01:10:14 PM

http://www.kirbanperformance.com/product/318/BRAKE+ACCUMULATOR+BOWL+%236697.html

$179

Title: powermaster
Post by: daveismissing on April 26 2011, 01:26:17 PM

Quote from: "SuperSix @ Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:23 am"

$600 seems high, but it's a pretty important part. :)

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Cardone-Reman-Brake-Power-Booster/1987-Buick-Regal/_/N-iidqmZ8kn7z?counter=2&itemIdentifier=38996_0_4837_88626

Believe you can use this cheaper one, just have to swap the resevoirs?
Confirm?

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Cardone-Reman-Brake-Power-Booster/1986-Buick-Electra-Estate-Wagon/_/N-iun91Z8kn7z?counter=2&itemIdentifier=38995_0_4837_13277

Title: powermaster
Post by: SuperSix on April 26 2011, 01:46:59 PM

Rock Auto has good pricing too.
http://www.rockauto.com/dbphp/x,carcode,1379820,parttype,1884,d,1986_BUICK_REGAL_GRAND_NATIONAL_3.8L_231_cubic_inch_V6_FI_Turbo_7_OHV_Power_Brake_Booster.html

Title: Re: powermaster
Post by: Shimy87 on April 26 2011, 02:16:44 PM

never replaced anything....ye t. The brakes work fine, I just never noticed the noise much before?!?!

Title: Re: powermaster
Post by: Turbodave on April 26 2011, 04:39:27 PM

When or if you need the accumulator, Kirban's unit is well priced and a high quality unit.

Title: powermaster
Post by: ULYCYC on April 26 2011, 04:40:41 PM

If you shop around you can find the Cardone units for $400.  Advance has 25% coupons that will drop the price under $400 when they have the promo's

Title: powermaster
Post by: Wrecked Em on April 26 2011, 08:00:17 PM

Hydroboost....

Title: powermaster
Post by: SuperSix on April 26 2011, 08:04:24 PM

Quote from: "Wrecked Em @ Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:00 pm"

Hydroboost....

Vague post is vague.

Are you saying people should convert to a hydroboost system instead?

Title: powermaster
Post by: Steve Wood on April 26 2011, 08:12:02 PM

that is what he was saying :)

Title: powermaster
Post by: Charlief1 on April 26 2011, 08:24:29 PM

Quote from: "Wrecked Em @ Tue 26 Apr, 2011 18:00"

Hydroboost....

That's what's on mine. :D But it is a factory system for a HA car after all. :finga:

Title: powermaster
Post by: daveismissing on April 26 2011, 08:28:13 PM

Some people freak when the talk about that "floating valve thingy" in the hydroboost.

Drama queens?

Title: powermaster
Post by: Steve Wood on April 26 2011, 08:42:19 PM

or idiots?  :D

Title: powermaster
Post by: Wrecked Em on April 26 2011, 08:51:58 PM

I like the hydroboost. If the 87 was not already converted to vacuum, I would install a hydroboost system. It still may get one down the road. My 85 is hydroboost and it has performed flawlessly as did the 85 GN I had before this one.

Title: powermaster
Post by: Steve Wood on April 26 2011, 09:24:38 PM

tb3 installed one...now, I don't think he has ever, or will ever, drive his car.  It is mainly a prop for his photo endeavors.

Lotsa astrovans and others with hydroboost.

Title: powermaster
Post by: daveismissing on April 26 2011, 10:20:30 PM

Quote from: "Steve Wood @ Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:24 pm"

tb3 installed one...now, I don't think he has ever, or will ever, drive his car.

Title: powermaster
Post by: Shimy87 on April 27 2011, 10:04:44 AM

Okay, now I will show my ignorance. Is hydroboost changing it to a system like out of an S-10?? I thought I read about that before. I'll have to start doing some searching on the issue and get educated. I take my wife and son alot in this car and I dont need any braking drama.

Thanks guys!!

Title: powermaster
Post by: SuperSix on April 27 2011, 11:26:11 AM

Quote from: "Shimy87 @ Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:04 am"

Okay, now I will show my ignorance. Is hydroboost changing it to a system like out of an S-10?? I thought I read about that before. I'll have to start doing some searching on the issue and get educated. I take my wife and son alot in this car and I dont need any braking drama.

Thanks guys!!

Hydroboost is the system used on the NA 84/85 turbo Regals (and other GM trucks, etc) it uses the power steering pump and pressure to provide the boost for your brakes.

Expensive new . .
http://www.powerbrake-drivetrain.com/servlet/the-212/85-86-87-BUICK/Detail

Title: powermaster
Post by: Mountain GN on April 27 2011, 04:45:22 PM

I converted to vacuum a few years back and haven't regretted it for a moment.

We were replacing Powermaster crap annually, and the vacuum conversion completely eliminated THAT problem.

We got out setup at MP Brakes complete for under $400.  We don't have any junk yards nearby, so this was the best way to go for us.

Title: powermaster
Post by: Wrecked Em on April 27 2011, 06:16:35 PM

Quote from: "SuperSix @ Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:26 am"

Quote from: "Shimy87 @ Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:04 am"

Okay, now I will show my ignorance. Is hydroboost changing it to a system like out of an S-10?? I thought I read about that before. I'll have to start doing some searching on the issue and get educated. I take my wife and son alot in this car and I dont need any braking drama.

Thanks guys!!

Hydroboost is the system used on the NA 84/85 turbo Regals (and other GM trucks, etc) it uses the power steering pump and pressure to provide the boost for your brakes.

What is an NA 84/86 turbo Regal?

Title: powermaster
Post by: SuperSix on April 27 2011, 07:08:37 PM

Quote from: "Wrecked Em @ Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:16 pm"

Quote from: "SuperSix @ Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:26 am"

Quote from: "Shimy87 @ Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:04 am"

Okay, now I will show my ignorance. Is hydroboost changing it to a system like out of an S-10?? I thought I read about that before. I'll have to start doing some searching on the issue and get educated. I take my wife and son alot in this car and I dont need any braking drama.

Thanks guys!!

Hydroboost is the system used on the NA 84/85 turbo Regals (and other GM trucks, etc) it uses the power steering pump and pressure to provide the boost for your brakes.

What is an NA 84/86 turbo Regal?

Whooops!

And  :finga:

Title: powermaster
Post by: Wrecked Em on April 27 2011, 07:26:20 PM

Quote from: "SuperSix @ Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:08 pm"

Quote from: "Wrecked Em @ Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:16 pm"

Quote from: "SuperSix @ Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:26 am"

Quote from: "Shimy87 @ Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:04 am"

Okay, now I will show my ignorance. Is hydroboost changing it to a system like out of an S-10?? I thought I read about that before. I'll have to start doing some searching on the issue and get educated. I take my wife and son alot in this car and I dont need any braking drama.

Thanks guys!!

Hydroboost is the system used on the NA 84/85 turbo Regals (and other GM trucks, etc) it uses the power steering pump and pressure to provide the boost for your brakes.

What is an NA 84/86 turbo Regal?

Whooops!

And

Title: powermaster
Post by: Steve Wood on April 27 2011, 07:27:37 PM

That is the north american special edition that was imported to Canada with Mapleleaf insignia on the valve covers.

Title: powermaster
Post by: Wrecked Em on April 27 2011, 07:29:08 PM

Quote from: "Steve Wood @ Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:27 pm"

That is the north american special edition that was imported to Canada with Mapleleaf insignia on the valve covers.

Oh, that one!  :yawinkle:

Title: powermaster
Post by: daveismissing on April 27 2011, 08:53:26 PM

And hasn't won  since 1967

Title: powermaster
Post by: Jordan_J on April 27 2011, 11:49:25 PM

I haven't used vacuum brakes but I will say that Hydroboost is much better than the Powermaster was. I have only logged around 30 miles on my hydroboost so far but it works great and I can safely compare it to newer car braking.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v715/Jordan_J/Buick/c2f9c955.jpg)

Title: powermaster
Post by: Steve Wood on April 28 2011, 08:52:51 AM

tell us about your hydroboost install

Title: powermaster
Post by: SuperSix on April 28 2011, 10:07:24 AM

Quote from: "Steve Wood @ Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:52 am"

tell us about your hydroboost install

Yes please.

Where did you get the setup? How hard to install?

DETAILS MAN!!!   :rolleyes:

Title: Re: powermaster
Post by: Jordan_J on April 28 2011, 02:19:56 PM

The setup was very easy. I found the post on TB.com originally and kinda followed it but I liked the way this guy set his website up a little more.

http://www.cedarcrestspeedlab.com/techarticles.html?col7=open#CollapsiblePanel7

It was pretty easy though just a little time consuming especially under the dash but it wasn't too hard there as long as you are a little flexible.

I opted with the speed bleeders he used in his install as well and they are definitely nice especially if you plan to bleed by yourself.

I ordered my booster from Rock Auto and ate the core fee because it wasn't too much. And I ordered my master cylinder, pressure lines, and return line from Advance Auto because I work there and get a discount. I would call around though and see who is the cheapest in your area it wasn't very much either way for the parts I got at work. Rock Auto had the cheapest price on the booster and O'Reilly was the only other place to carry it I found here.

Be sure the paint the master cylinder too. Mine is starting to rust a little bit where either brake fluid got on it or I just didn't paint it thick enough only in a few spots though. I'll touch it up later.

I bench bled the master and then threw it on and bled the car it didn't take too long although I had a leaking line at the master so I had to replace it after a bit of troubleshootin g.

Taking the pedal off and putting it back on was probably the hardest part. You use the same pedal at the Powermaster though so if you're converting from that it's great.

The setup makes a little noise but it gets quieter at first. I haven't tried to hold any boost yet I'm just making sure some other things are good to go before I do plus I'm waiting to get my MT's mounted anyway. I'll let you all know after it stops raining on a daily basis how it does.

Title: powermaster
Post by: Steve Wood on April 28 2011, 03:56:21 PM

Thanks for posting the link...you are a much better guy than TB 3 who has been promising to do a write up for years!

Title: powermaster
Post by: Jordan_J on April 28 2011, 11:29:15 PM

No problem. I didn't take near the pictures that the fellow at the link I took did. I just took more of a before and after type deal.

Title: Cardone promo
Post by: daveismissing on May 10 2011, 08:12:54 AM

Quote from: "ULYCYC @ Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:40 pm"

If you shop around you can find the Cardone units for $400.

Title: powermaster
Post by: SuperSix on May 10 2011, 08:37:49 AM

Code 'EMD5' will get you $20.00 off $50.00

Not sure if these will work:
http://www.buxr.com/coupons/advance-auto-parts

Title: powermaster
Post by: daveismissing on May 10 2011, 09:00:44 AM

Cool, a coupon thread might make sense, Ford forums always seen to have Rockauto discount codes posted.

Title: Re: powermaster
Post by: ULYCYC on May 10 2011, 11:04:00 AM

Just check the webpages for Advance, Autozone or others before you go to the store. Advance now has 20% off total order under promo code P20

Title: Re: powermaster
Post by: daveismissing on June 07 2011, 12:44:33 AM

Sometimes I wish for a paper copy (vs pdf) of the manual-

How is power fed to the powermaster motor?
Does it have it's own breaker somewhere?

Title: powermaster
Post by: Steve Wood on June 07 2011, 09:10:01 AM

pwr brk fuse and rlys fuse