IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense

Tech Area => A/C, Heating and Cooling => Topic started by: SuperSix on January 10 2011, 02:50:10 PM

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: SuperSix on January 10 2011, 02:50:10 PM

I may need to convert my TR over to 134 - I only have about 2.5 cans of R12 left, and I need that more for the Cadillac. (Last year for R12 - yay!)

I remember the main issue is the factory R12 condenser isn't efficient with R134 - is there a GOOD aftermarket R134 condenser we can use? Is this less of an issue with high-flow dual fans? Remember - I am in hot, humid Central Florida.

Does anyone have a link to a comprehensive R134 conversion guide?

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: Wrecked Em on January 10 2011, 04:45:30 PM

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/airconditioning/R12toR134a.html

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: SuperSix on January 10 2011, 05:25:25 PM

Dang - I didn't think the check there.

Has anyone here done this conversion?

Thanks Bryan

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: Top Speed on January 10 2011, 11:14:00 PM

There is a thread on TBS about using a bigger condenser core to regain the efficiency lost by using 134a.

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: G. Price on April 09 2011, 06:56:37 AM

subscribed

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: Wrecked Em on April 23 2011, 05:11:12 PM

Getting ready to throw the A/C back on the GN since it is my DD for now.

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: daveismissing on April 23 2011, 05:12:34 PM

Propane aka 12a seems ok here.

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: Wrecked Em on April 26 2011, 06:00:05 PM

What is the best way to get the old oil out of the compressor.

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: SuperSix on April 26 2011, 06:23:30 PM

Quote from: "Wrecked Em @ Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:00 pm"

What is the best way to get the old oil out of the compressor.

I just turned mine on it's back and let it drain, changed orientation a few times. I have a charge can to clear the lines, I suppose I could have tried it on the compressor.

I wonder if a shopvac would work well...

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: Wrecked Em on April 26 2011, 07:57:07 PM

Thanks Mark....

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: Wrecked Em on April 30 2011, 08:52:04 PM

Parts showed up today from Rock Auto. Gauges and vacuum pump showed up yesterday. The conversion now begins.

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: SuperSix on April 30 2011, 09:46:38 PM

Quote from: "Wrecked Em @ Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:52 pm"

Parts showed up today from Rock Auto. Gauges and vacuum pump showed up yesterday. The conversion now begins.

Where did you get the vacuum pump? I wish I could rent one, but I think I will have to buy. I have some manifold gauges already.

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: Charlief1 on April 30 2011, 11:43:24 PM

You can afford a suction pump.

http://www.harborfreight.com/automotive-motorcycle/refrigeration.html

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: SuperSix on May 01 2011, 01:15:58 AM

Quote from: "Charlief1 @ Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:43 pm"

You can afford a suction pump.

http://www.harborfreight.com/automotive-motorcycle/refrigeration.html

Useless. I mean a real 120V beast. I threw away the old HF suction pump I had.

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: Charlief1 on May 01 2011, 01:28:43 AM

Quote from: "SuperSix @ Sat 30 Apr, 2011 23:15"

Quote from: "Charlief1 @ Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:43 pm"

You can afford a suction pump.

http://www.harborfreight.com/automotive-motorcycle/refrigeration.html

Useless. I mean a real 120V beast. I threw away the old HF suction pump I had.

Been using one for about 10 years now and no issues yet. :supz:

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: SuperSix on May 01 2011, 06:10:09 AM

Quote from: "Charlief1 @ Sun May 01, 2011 12:28 am"

Quote from: "SuperSix @ Sat 30 Apr, 2011 23:15"

Quote from: "Charlief1 @ Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:43 pm"

You can afford a suction pump.

http://www.harborfreight.com/automotive-motorcycle/refrigeration.html

Useless. I mean a real 120V beast. I threw away the old HF suction pump I had.

Been using one for about 10 years now and no issues yet. :supz:

I never had luck pulling a serious low vacuum for any amount of time - maybe it's my compressor.

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: daveismissing on May 01 2011, 08:04:40 AM

1950s 1960s refigerator compressor, cast iron jobs.
They had fittings on both sides.

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: Wrecked Em on May 01 2011, 08:54:01 AM

I am trying the HF suction pump. I have heard from several people that used it and it worked well. I have also heard some negatives. I'll give it a shot.

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: SuperSix on May 01 2011, 10:27:38 AM

Quote from: "Wrecked Em @ Sun May 01, 2011 7:54 am"

I am trying the HF suction pump. I have heard from several people that used it and it worked well. I have also heard some negatives. I'll give it a shot.

 think it depends on the CFM of your compressor. Mine's not that great.

I need to buy a nice compressor. I have a 10 year old oilless Craftsman 5HP 20gal.

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: Wrecked Em on May 01 2011, 12:11:01 PM

I have an old Dayton 5hp with a 60 gallon tank. I have not had any probs running paint guns DAs or anything else. This pump should not be an issue.

My only concern is that it is rated at 28.3 inHg. Most reading recommend 500 microns vacuum (29.92 inHg). Hopefully that will be enough.

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: SuperSix on May 01 2011, 12:12:48 PM

If I read to vacuum it down for an hour, I leave it on for 2. The main purpose is to boil off the moisture, so longer cant hurt.

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: SuperSix on May 01 2011, 12:15:57 PM

I assume you are following the conversion guide from GN/TType.org that you linked?

The GN I just got had the A/C lines disconnected - I will probably get a new compressor dryer, etc. I need to find the info on the replacement condenser that works better with the R134.

Good thread - I am interested in your results.

I HAVE to have A/C - I plan on sound insulating/etc the GN. Make it fast AND plush.

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: Wrecked Em on May 01 2011, 12:20:11 PM

Quote from: "SuperSix @ Sun May 01, 2011 10:12 am"

If I read to vacuum it down for an hour, I leave it on for 2. The main purpose is to boil off the moisture, so longer cant hurt.

At 500 micron it is recommended to hold for 45 minutes, but the main reason for this is to boil the refrigerant out of the oil. Since the oil will be changed this will not be an issue.

I do not think the difference between 28.3 and 29.92 inHg will make much difference as far as moisture. A little more time should be ok as far as eliminating moisture.

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: Charlief1 on May 01 2011, 12:24:28 PM

Quote from: "SuperSix @ Sun 01 May, 2011 04:10"

I never had luck pulling a serious low vacuum for any amount of time - maybe it's my compressor.

I had some issues a couple of years ago with mine and after doing a little testing it turned out that my guages were bad. The pump I've got will pull and hold 29 inches as long as I want since I got the new guages. :supz:

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: Wrecked Em on May 01 2011, 03:40:44 PM

So far i have installed the condensor, changed the orifice tube, installed the lines, and removed the compressor.

No major issues so far.

Now I am off to put the compressor back in, install the receiver/dryer, and start pulling a vacuum.

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: Wrecked Em on May 01 2011, 03:47:46 PM

Quote from: "SuperSix @ Sun May 01, 2011 10:15 am"

I assume you are following the conversion guide from GN/TType.org that you linked?

The GN I just got had the A/C lines disconnected - I will probably get a new compressor dryer, etc. I need to find the info on the replacement condenser that works better with the R134.

Good thread - I am interested in your results.

I HAVE to have A/C - I plan on sound insulating/etc the GN. Make it fast AND plush.

I am sort of following the gnttype procedure.

I have recently (Friday) become a certified Universal A/C tech and will be come a certified MVAC tech this week. So I am trying to do things the proper way even though certification info is vague as to the actual work, mostly specs and regulations.

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: Wrecked Em on May 02 2011, 06:40:39 PM

So my compressor will not engage. The ECM is calling for it but I am not getting a signal to the compressor. I need to troubleshoot it, I will let you know what I find.

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: daveismissing on May 02 2011, 07:20:04 PM

Cutoff switch on the compressor itself?

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: SuperSix on May 02 2011, 07:42:06 PM

Does the ECM call for it after it receives the signal that the pressure is correct? Or before? Could i be a bad pressure sensor?

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: Wrecked Em on May 02 2011, 09:13:48 PM

I am jumping out the switch. If the switch is not jumped out, it does not call.

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: SuperSix on May 03 2011, 12:53:20 AM

Quote from: "Wrecked Em @ Mon May 02, 2011 8:13 pm"

I am jumping out the switch. If the switch is not jumped out, it does not call.

Which switch?

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: daveismissing on May 03 2011, 08:38:42 AM

Quote from: "SuperSix @ Mon May 02, 2011 11:53 pm"

Quote from: "Wrecked Em @ Mon May 02, 2011 8:13 pm"

I am jumping out the switch. If the switch is not jumped out, it does not call.

Which switch?

This is the one I was talking about- self explanatory if you've ever tried to take one out.
 
(http://dtekk.com/automotive/Delco_R4_Hi_cutout.jpg)

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: Steve Wood on May 03 2011, 08:18:15 PM

You might look at the diagram I posted here....and read thru the thread...note that I posted some things from memory and corrected them later in the thread....pret ty simple circuit as the diagram shows

http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/buick-v6-turbo-tech/84445-ac-wiring-diagram.html

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: Wrecked Em on May 08 2011, 08:25:10 PM

So my guess is I have a broken wire somewhere.  The relay is fine, I voltage out but I do not have it on my plug at the compressor.

I will work on it again in a few days.

Anyone have any words of wisdom for working on the heater/ac controls? I seem to have good vacuum and the controls moves well but nothing will switch. Right now the air is coming out the floor and defrost. I would much rather use the dash vents.

Title: Re: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: daveismissing on May 08 2011, 10:33:51 PM

It not this thing by any chance?
http://dtekk.com/automotive/heater/lever.jpg

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: SuperSix on May 09 2011, 07:32:19 AM

The heater flap/diverter may be stuck. Sometimes the sealing foam deteriorates and gets sticky. Something to check..

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: daveismissing on May 09 2011, 11:52:40 AM

or broken as per jpg

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: Wrecked Em on May 09 2011, 09:22:04 PM

I will have to dig into it some more.

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: Wrecked Em on May 11 2011, 10:28:51 PM

Vent started working today. Now to just figure out why the A/C compressor will not cycle.

Title: Re: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: Pyro6 on May 12 2011, 06:09:10 PM

The compressor now engages but doesn't cycle?

Title: R134 TR conversion?
Post by: SuperSix on May 15 2011, 09:47:54 AM

Bryan - when you do rig it, what's the outlet temp?