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Tech Area => Paint and Body => Topic started by: gnonyx on November 12 2016, 01:00:52 PM

Title: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: gnonyx on November 12 2016, 01:00:52 PM
Okay, I'm in the process of painting the header panel after repairing the crack left marker lens support mounting holes that was crack many years ago. I have read many threads on the do's and don't, but I want my 87 GN header panel to match the original body paint if that possible, or just add a primer (what type), and then paint it gloss black color and then spray it with a Spray Max 2K Glamour High Gloss Aerosol Clear.
 Anyone have some ideas of this process and opinions? Thanks
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: daveismissing on November 12 2016, 06:21:41 PM
Reviews for that clear are impressive. Sure it wont make the rest of you paint look bad?
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: gnonyx on November 13 2016, 09:19:49 AM
Reviews for that clear are impressive. Sure it wont make the rest of you paint look bad?

Don't know if I don't try it
But I did more research and found that I need to do a base coat paint and not just any gloss paint. I'm also thinking of compounding the whole car since it still has the original factory paint. I will post some pictures of the header panel, showing the crack damage, repaired, and also the both replacement bumper fillers that needs to be painted as well.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: Just a Six? on November 14 2016, 07:52:39 PM
With our paint as old as it is I would try a Semi-Gloss finish clear if you haven't purchased it yet. That Gloss will be pretty shiny altho I've never used that particular product? Even the Satin finish shines up pretty good.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: Just a Six? on November 15 2016, 03:02:23 PM
I was trying to say that if you haven't purchased the Gloss yet, then maybe use the Semi-Gloss. Worse comes to worse you can spray one sheen over the other.




 
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: gnonyx on November 15 2016, 06:47:03 PM
Okay after more researching, I'm going to spray with black SEM Factory Pack Automotive Basecoat Aerosol about 3 coats and then spray 3 coats of Max 2K Glamour High Gloss Aerosol Clear. If any orange peels develops then I will sand with 1500, compound and polish. The only problem is the temperature not being a least 70*, and living in SC is getting cold. For now I'm just sanding all parts and waiting until the warm climate comes around again. I do have a propane heater, but still having the heater blowing air around in the garage even with the garage door open I might get dirt in the painted parts.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: gnonyx on November 16 2016, 07:26:34 PM
Okay here are some pictures of the crack Header Panel and also both bumpers filler replacement
I know going with Spoolfull2 Fiberglass bumper filler, but I don't have funds since I already spend a lot of money of redoing our kitchen. I will also post a couple of pictures of the kitchen, and yes I did all of the work.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: gnonyx on November 16 2016, 07:35:40 PM
Some more pictures of the repaired Header Panel
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: gnonyx on November 16 2016, 07:50:21 PM
The original finally crack and felt apart, so I got these fillers from EBay for about $120.00 and with free S&H.

The original fillers had metal bracket to which I utilize them for additional bolt on support on the replacement fillers
I'm now on the process of fitting the front bumper fillers
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: good2win22 on November 17 2016, 09:05:51 AM
Looks like some good work going on in the kitchen and on the car!
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: daveismissing on November 17 2016, 09:50:01 AM
It was my understanding that the particulates that break up the gloss to make semi gloss exist through out the layer.  A gloss on top of semi would be be something in between I suspect?

I imagine you need to ensure a barrier between the old laquer and the new?
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: Just a Six? on November 17 2016, 10:35:32 AM
Once the coating is 100% dry then the new top coat will be the shine you see. It may give it a deeper look depending on how many coats total? Also depending on companies the Satin finish might be closer to 25 year old buffed up paint but then your getting pretty picky so lighting would also play a role. Most of us wouldn't notice the difference I bet since we don't go looking for small differences in the sheen.
I could put Gloss on 1 wall of that kitchen (nice job!) Semi on another & Satin on the last wall & I bet 95% of people on a tour of the house would never even catch it. Cars guys would probably notice the header panel more when in a car show setting, but at the coffee shop I would be surprised if 30% noticed it.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: gnonyx on November 17 2016, 10:38:47 AM
Looks like some good work going on in the kitchen and on the car!

Thanks Jason, The "Honey Do List" is getting shorter :icon_fU:

Now I have to do a lot of sanding and I'm also thinking of getting a Polishing Kit, and try to bring back the shine. There are some dings on the door and some minor scratches, but It's worth a try instead of repainting the car.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: gnonyx on November 17 2016, 10:57:26 AM
It was my understanding that the particulates that break up the gloss to make semi gloss exist through out the layer.  A gloss on top of semi would be be something in between I suspect?

I imagine you need to ensure a barrier between the old laquer and the new?

You're right about the lacquer layers of paint that might need to be totally remove if your painting your metal car. I'm wondering if sanding down to the point of just breaking through the base of the paint I might be able to spray a primer or an adhesive primer, and then spray the black base, and finally the Max 2K Glamour High Gloss Aerosol Clear.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: gnonyx on November 17 2016, 11:13:54 AM
Once the coating is 100% dry then the new top coat will be the shine you see. It may give it a deeper look depending on how many coats total? Also depending on companies the Satin finish might be closer to 25 year old buffed up paint but then your getting pretty picky so lighting would also play a role. Most of us wouldn't notice the difference I bet since we don't go looking for small differences in the sheen.
I could put Gloss on 1 wall of that kitchen (nice job!) Semi on another & Satin on the last wall & I bet 95% of people on a tour of the house would never even catch it. Cars guys would probably notice the header panel more when in a car show setting, but at the coffee shop I would be surprised if 30% noticed it.

That is exactly my problem, I don't know what type of black base the factory used, how many coats (probably 1 coat) and what/how many on clear coats.
I'm not by all means an auto painter, but I did a lot of research, still maybe not enough to the exact original color other than do total repaint job. I will keep sanding down just to the base color, use a primer, and then paint the SEM Factory Pack Auto Base coat Paint, and finally the Max 2K Glamour High Gloss Aerosol Clear.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: Just a Six? on November 17 2016, 01:48:53 PM
The header looks like you did a good job of sanding so once the primer is on you should be good with most products out there. Almost 20 years ago my car was sanded down (nothing special) & shot with Enamel. Lots of people said you can't do that & you have to go to Bare Metal  but mine is still holding on just fine with a half decent shine after it was professionally buffed out 6 years ago. I touch it up with regular Gloss Black Oil base paint I use on kitchen cupboards.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: daveismissing on November 17 2016, 06:17:27 PM
My car was repainted after theft at around year 3. I believe they put a barrier /primer and BASF enamel over that. I think that is why my fillers have survived.

I think they took the header down to nothing to work out the stone chips tho. 
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: gnonyx on November 17 2016, 06:49:42 PM
The header looks like you did a good job of sanding so once the primer is on you should be good with most products out there. Almost 20 years ago my car was sanded down (nothing special) & shot with Enamel. Lots of people said you can't do that & you have to go to Bare Metal  but mine is still holding on just fine with a half decent shine after it was professionally buffed out 6 years ago. I touch it up with regular Gloss Black Oil base paint I use on kitchen cupboards.

What type primer did you use?
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: gnonyx on November 17 2016, 06:54:06 PM
My car was repainted after theft at around year 3. I believe they put a barrier /primer and BASF enamel over that. I think that is why my fillers have survived.

I think they took the header down to nothing to work out the stone chips tho.

is this barrier /primer also works like a sealer?
After the enamel paint did you also apply the clear coat?
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: Just a Six? on November 17 2016, 07:29:22 PM
They don't promote or even sell old style Oil Base Enamel in most paint stores as everything now is Acrylic Enamel but I don't deal in Automotive materials. Chris Turbolicker would be the guy to ask about all the new stuff as the Technology keeps new products coming out almost yearly. I use water base 100% Acrylic primers that will stick to almost anything. Really tough stuff & if it dries on your hands you need a hot shower to get if off. Also Hybrid water base finish coats that need no primer & go over old Oil paint.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: gnonyx on November 17 2016, 07:33:11 PM
I was trying to say that if you haven't purchased the Gloss yet, then maybe use the Semi-Gloss. Worse comes to worse you can spray one sheen over the other.

Too late, I already purchased the Max 2K Glamour High Gloss Aerosol Clear, and in the process of purchasing the SEM Factory Pack Auto Base coat Paint.
https://www.johnsonautobodysupply.com/SEM-Factory-Pack-Automotive-Basecoat-Aerosol.html (https://www.johnsonautobodysupply.com/SEM-Factory-Pack-Automotive-Basecoat-Aerosol.html)
#12423 GM WA8555 Black
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: Just a Six? on November 17 2016, 07:40:19 PM
We didn't use a primer as the paint was just scuffed up. Cleaned it really good & sprayed it on Heavy! If I ever paint it again properly it will have to be taken down a lot as it's got about 1/16" of paint on that sucker! Many years ago I painted an old Gremlin in my garage with a Graco Airless Sprayer & Yellow Tremclad in an old dirty garage & if the Cat never jumped on the hood it would have looked halfway decent!
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: Just a Six? on November 17 2016, 07:41:27 PM
I'm sure it will turn out Great, just so many options these days!
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: gnonyx on November 17 2016, 08:26:15 PM
Thanks, for now being it's getting cold I'll just stick to fitting the front bumper fillers, sand and prep both bumper fillers for the same paint as the header panel when it gets warmer.
In the meantime, inside the garage I'm going to try to polish the whole car with a polishing kit.
Will post the result in the future.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: puzzledfox on February 20 2017, 05:52:01 PM
How does it look like now?  :icon_smile:
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: gnonyx on February 20 2017, 09:03:34 PM
I haven't start the project yet since the garage is still cold to spray paint.
All I have been doing is sanding both bumper fillers, header panel, remove hood, and both fender badges to do some minor body dings.
After all of the nicks and dings are repaired, then it's some light DA sanding, spray paint, clear coat, compounding, and then polish.
It's one of those things I do baby steps as I'm not body repairman, nor I'm an auto painter.
In fact all of the things I mention I never did before, but after reading reviewing sites and you tube, I'll give it a try, and if all goes well I well post the results.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: gnonyx on September 30 2017, 08:40:22 PM
I know my last post has been a while, but many things has happen, including the "honey to do list" and now I finally got the Header Panel, and Bumper Fillers painted.
 
In my last post I did some body fills to some normal road cracks, and scratches.
 
After block sanding the body fills, I used a 3M Respirator Painting Spraying Face Gas Mask, and apply 3 coats of black sandable primer, waited until the next day to block sanded with wet/dry 800, used tack cloth.

I spray 3 coats of SEM GM Factory Pack Black (WA8555), 12 oz Aerosol 19423, Wait 10 minutes for each coat.

After the last Black Base coat, I then spray 3 coats of USC 2k Glamour Clear Gloss Clear Coat Spray Max Aerosol, and Wait 10 minutes for each coats.
 
I was worry at first thinking that after spraying the clear coat I would need to compound to smooth out the orange peel, but finalizing all, it looks like I don't have to do nothing but put it all together.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: TexasT on September 30 2017, 10:25:30 PM
Looks awesome in the pix. Maybe you could throw down some how to since you say you've not done it before yet it looks like it is second nature to you. Great job!
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: gnonyx on September 30 2017, 11:12:25 PM
Looks awesome in the pix. Maybe you could throw down some how to since you say you've not done it before yet it looks like it is second nature to you. Great job!
Thanks Rich
I rewrote the procedure I used, but if you like you can pm me your number and I can go into more in detail. Thanks again
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: good2win22 on October 01 2017, 08:05:30 AM
Looks awesome!
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: Scoobum on October 01 2017, 08:39:45 AM
You've got a knack for body/paint. Looks great!
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: gnonyx on October 01 2017, 10:56:59 AM
You've got a knack for body/paint. Looks great!
Thanks, I wish that was true, I guess the real test and challenge is when I strip the hood and do the same procedure as the header panel. Right now the hood has what I think is called "crows feet", and my understanding if it's not the clear causing the crows feet then it's the actual base paint. If the base paint is causing this, the only option is to strip down to metal and start from fresh.
Right now the temperature here is starting to get cooler, and the only thing I can do is the prep work from this coming spring warmer weather.
I will post some pictures of my progress

Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: Scoobum on October 01 2017, 11:46:07 AM
I had 'crows feet' happen on this ATR front bumper when I cleared it. I switched to a different clear...may have been laquer or vice versa...whatev er the other one is. When I switched to the other...all went well. Think I still have both the cans in the garage. Will check today. The guy that stole my GN snapped the bumper in half. I'm just fixing it now....so I'll have a look today.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: gnonyx on October 01 2017, 03:04:44 PM
I had 'crows feet' happen on this ATR front bumper when I cleared it. I switched to a different clear...may have been laquer or vice versa...whatev er the other one is. When I switched to the other...all went well. Think I still have both the cans in the garage. Will check today. The guy that stole my GN snapped the bumper in half. I'm just fixing it now....so I'll have a look today.
So what you're saying that scumbag try to steal your GN and damaged the bumper?
As far as the crows feet, I'm going to try to use 3M Trizact Hookit Foam Disc 6" 2500 and 3000 Grit, and see if the clear is causing this issue or the base paint. All I know I have a winter projects in a cold garage. I might have to break out the portable propane heater; and that thing throws out too much heat, as I'm going to have to open a little the garage door.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: Scoobum on October 01 2017, 03:07:32 PM
Found the 2 cans. Enamel and lacquer. I prolly sprayed with enamel...and then cleared it with laquer...or vice versa. I've got enamel black...so I'll clear it with enamel. Warming this week. I'll get back to you on how it turned out...prolly Wednesday.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: Just a Six? on October 01 2017, 05:13:23 PM
They came out really good!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: gnonyx on October 01 2017, 06:31:17 PM
Found the 2 cans. Enamel and lacquer. I prolly sprayed with enamel...and then cleared it with laquer...or vice versa. I've got enamel black...so I'll clear it with enamel. Warming this week. I'll get back to you on how it turned out...prolly Wednesday.
The 2 cans that you found are going to be use on the bumper?
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: gnonyx on October 01 2017, 06:33:50 PM
They came out really good!  :cheers:
Thanks David, Now I have to remember where all of the bolts goes back onto the header panel, front grill, etcs.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: Scoobum on October 01 2017, 06:42:57 PM
I have a new can of Duplicolor black enamel. Gonna clear the bumper with Duplicolor clear enamel.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: gnonyx on October 01 2017, 09:04:33 PM
I have a new can of Duplicolor black enamel. Gonna clear the bumper with Duplicolor clear enamel.
Definitely post some pictures after you paint the bumpers


I also painted both bumpers this afternoon since the weather was warm to paint.
I going to use the black base paint and the 2k clear gloss coat, but I already started with Rust-Oleum Ultra Cover black Paint+Primer. I already have given 3 coats, and I might give it another coat to fill in some pin spots.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: Scoobum on October 01 2017, 09:08:14 PM
There's a pic of the front bumper on the board here somewhere the first time I did it before the car was stolen. I'll get pics up this week if the weather will cooperate.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: Scoobum on October 01 2017, 09:18:36 PM
Here's the 2 pics from the first time.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: gnonyx on October 01 2017, 09:57:49 PM
Here's the 2 pics from the first time.
front bumper looks really good
now are you going to use both spray paint you mention before, and will it look like the one in your pictures?
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: Scoobum on October 01 2017, 10:09:40 PM
Duplicolor is what I went with the first time...so I'm sticking with it. No reason it shouldn't look the same. You can't tell where it was broke in half.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: gnonyx on October 02 2017, 10:53:03 AM
Duplicolor is what I went with the first time...so I'm sticking with it. No reason it shouldn't look the same. You can't tell where it was broke in half.
Like I said, the bumper really looks good, maybe next time if I do the bumper again, i'll switch to Duplicolor with the clear.
If you get a chance, post some pictures
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: Scoobum on October 02 2017, 04:35:41 PM
Hit it with the black base today...and it crowfooted in a couple places. Gonna let it dry in till Wednesday...sa nd them out and retry.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: gnonyx on October 02 2017, 07:54:46 PM
Hit it with the black base today...and it crowfooted in a couple places. Gonna let it dry in till Wednesday...sa nd them out and retry.
I have a question for you
When you spray the black base, did you waited awhile then spray the clear coat, or did you just spray the black base only?
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: Scoobum on October 02 2017, 07:59:51 PM
I strictly hit it with the black base today. I'm gonna try and sand out the crows feet in a couple of days when it really hardens up. I was pleased with the finish work I did. It didn't show any scratches and you'd never know it was broke in half.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: gnonyx on October 02 2017, 11:11:32 PM
I strictly hit it with the black base today. I'm gonna try and sand out the crows feet in a couple of days when it really hardens up. I was pleased with the finish work I did. It didn't show any scratches and you'd never know it was broke in half.
Hope all works well, and I can't believe that idiot broke the bumper in half. What was the purpose for breaking the bumper in half?
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: Scoobum on October 03 2017, 09:29:09 AM
We found the car 5 days after it was stolen in the back of an 18 wheeler. No idea how he broke it. I could write a book about what happened.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: gnonyx on October 03 2017, 06:27:45 PM
We found the car 5 days after it was stolen in the back of an 18 wheeler. No idea how he broke it. I could write a book about what happened.
Wow, you are lucky to find it, back in NY if a car was stolen, it would be strip in 5 minutes and the parts would be in boxes inside an 18 wheeler.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: daveismissing on October 03 2017, 09:30:19 PM
I know of mine and one other that were recovered, believe the cops were already onto the "ring" when they got mine.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: Scoobum on October 04 2017, 05:46:52 PM
Okay...here it is.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ko-pUW2rNY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ko-pUW2rNY)
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: Scoobum on October 04 2017, 06:01:41 PM
Paint is acrylic lacquer for the base and clear.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: gnonyx on October 05 2017, 09:19:59 AM
Paint is acrylic lacquer for the base and clear.


WOW, not only did you did an excellent work on the paint work, and putting it together after being split in two looks great.
I see you remove the two little strip metal on the bumper, and that also looks good. I was thinking of also removing them from both bumpers, but I don't have a welding machine to fill in the bolted holes.
Are the ATR lettering welded in?
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: Scoobum on October 05 2017, 09:33:20 AM
The ATR logo was put in when they made the mold. This is how it originally came from ATR. I've seen other guys weld in the holes on a stock steel bumper to give it a 'smooth' look.

I did some searching on YouTube on why the paint will 'checker'.

Using two different paints. Different clear over the base.

Chemical reaction from the paint you're painting over.

Putting it on too thick...which I think was my issue.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: gnonyx on October 05 2017, 09:55:16 PM
The ATR logo was put in when they made the mold. This is how it originally came from ATR. I've seen other guys weld in the holes on a stock steel bumper to give it a 'smooth' look.

I did some searching on YouTube on why the paint will 'checker'.

Using two different paints. Different clear over the base.

Chemical reaction from the paint you're painting over.

Putting it on too thick...which I think was my issue.
It's funny you mention about the chemical reaction
I sprayed black enamel on a tin can that was sprayed with black primer, and then I used the 2k clear epoxy over the enamel and after it started to dry some spots started to blisher.
I'm in the process of putting everything back together and I will post some pictures of how close the header panel is matches the original paint.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: Scoobum on October 06 2017, 10:07:41 AM
One of the parts places a couple towns over from me...if you give them the paint code for your car...can match it in an aerosol can for you.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: Just a Six? on October 06 2017, 04:10:50 PM
Brad with some practice you could apply for the job of narrator on one of the reality shows! Definitely better than Huffing the Aerosol cans in the garage.  :icon_eyes:
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: gnonyx on October 06 2017, 05:39:40 PM
One of the parts places a couple towns over from me...if you give them the paint code for your car...can match it in an aerosol can for you.

When I started my quest on repairing and repaint the header panel and also fit and paint the front and rear bumper fillers; I went to auto stores and PPG paint shop to see if they can do a spray can of Buick code WA848 black paint. They claimed no one does that, and you need to buy the pint or gallon, spray gun, and all the accessories that goes with auto painting.
I checked my truck code and found Buick code WA848 black which is also the same as the one I mention: Sem GM Factory base Black (WA8555)
The inserted pictures are the results to which I think is pretty close to the factory color.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: daveismissing on October 06 2017, 06:43:55 PM
Nice job- looks like a good match to me.
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: gnonyx on October 06 2017, 08:20:36 PM
Nice job- looks like a good match to me.
Thanks, I was surprise myself after I finalize the last coat of clear
Title: Re: Repaint Header Panel
Post by: gnonyx on October 07 2017, 03:39:35 PM
created a new thread
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