IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => Transmissions => Topic started by: Darth Buick on July 08 2013, 09:48:10 AM
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I have a stock 2004R / stock converter. Changing fluid & filter on car, has been in a museum for 6 years before I bought the car out of the collection. Dexron 6 or Type F? Any brand suggestions? I run Red Line oil for engine / gear fluid. I know that clutch packs are more finicky in transmissions with friction coefficients / fluids that are spec'ed to the clutches that the OEM manufacturer builds with GM like Borg-Warner, Moog, etc. The Red Line oil is extremely durable, tends to be more 'slick' than standard synthetic oil manufacturers. Type F of course has the faster / firmer shifts. Obviously can't get Dexron II anymore. Thanks for your input.
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Having heard mixed reviews of synthetic fluid on the stock clutches, I would be leery myself, and stick with a good Dex-Merc like Valvoline. I would only use Type F in a tranny rebuilt/upgraded with aftermarket clutches, I think...
I believe the Dexron 6 is supposedly backward compatible with II, but I think I would go with the Dex-Merc.
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Thanks Steve, we're on the same page. I am fine with mineral-based for right now. Want to keep the trans alive for as long as possible while testing and tuning before shelling out for a major rebuild. I do remember a lot of 2004R transmissions being rebuilt with Art Carr internals in Knoxville area when I lived there and them being filled with Type F after the rebuild. I used to hang out with Mark Thomas (Puddin') if you know of him. Built engines for Lawrence Conley in Texas for a number of years and then came back to Knoxville. He had the fastest '85 in the country in the early '90's. He really go me into these cars.
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I knew Pudd'n well when he worked for LC-super nice guy
I run type F in both my cars but they have both been redone in the past
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Lonnie Diers of Extreme Automatics is one of the top 200-4r builders. Very briefly here's what he uses & recommends in this order for his builds:
1) Dexron VI - longer life
Yes, Dex VI is backwards compatible with all previous Dex fluids.
2) Ford Type F - short life, best for strip cars that change trans fluid often. Gives firmer shifting than above.
& as a last resort
3) Dexron III
Here's a link with a more detailed commentary:
http://www.extremeautomatics.com/images/2004R_Transmission_Install.pdf (http://www.extremeautomatics.com/images/2004R_Transmission_Install.pdf)
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Forgive my ignorance.....
My car has had Type F in it for a long time (like 8 years, maybe more), without being changed, without being driven a lot (maybe 1000 miles), but drag raced a little (like 20 passes).
My car is shifting like crap. I don't beat on it anymore but just driving it around it shifts like it's got a mind of its own. Sometimes shifts waaay early and acts like it skips a gear on the upshift or shifts imediately from 1-2-3. Sometimes it delays shifting. First thing I figured I should do is change the fluid and filter, since it's old. Then adjust the TV cable and see what happens. I have a drain plug in the pan and I know you only get part of the fluid with a change out. Is Dex Merc and Dex VI compatible with Type F? Do you think it would make sense to change out the fluid in the pan 3 or four times then drop the pan for a filter change to try to get the most Type F out? Does it matter?
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I think most are universal these days, lean toward MERC, or check for TypeF compatibility.
If the trans is acting that wacky, it's doubtful changing the fluid will make a huge difference.
I suppose it couldn't hurt.
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Forgive my ignorance.....
My car has had Type F in it for a long time (like 8 years, maybe more), without being changed, without being driven a lot (maybe 1000 miles), but drag raced a little (like 20 passes).
My car is shifting like crap. I don't beat on it anymore but just driving it around it shifts like it's got a mind of its own. Sometimes shifts waaay early and acts like it skips a gear on the upshift or shifts imediately from 1-2-3. Sometimes it delays shifting. First thing I figured I should do is change the fluid and filter, since it's old. Then adjust the TV cable and see what happens. I have a drain plug in the pan and I know you only get part of the fluid with a change out. Is Dex Merc and Dex VI compatible with Type F? Do you think it would make sense to change out the fluid in the pan 3 or four times then drop the pan for a filter change to try to get the most Type F out? Does it matter?
According to what 1KWIKSIX "2) Ford Type F - short life, best for strip cars that change trans fluid often. Gives firmer shifting than above."
Also Type F does not provide the heat protection
If you haven't change your transmission fluid after 20 passes you might have already coked something inside the transmission.
You also didn't mention if you have an external transmission cooler, but one is highly recommended, especially if one is using Type F fluid.
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Yes, I do have a big ass B&M tranny cooler that is hooked up in series with the factory radiator cooler. The fluid doesn't smell burned or look too bad. Right now I'm just looking for a little better shifting. I always heard type F was "dirtier" and Dex II. A lot of urban legends surround our cars. Most of them are false, except for the 3" pinion snubber, those are the shiznit.
I think I might try to adjust the TV cable detent to see if that helps first. I don't know if the cable would stretch just sitting around but it shouldn't hurt to reset it. Whether that fixes it or not, I think I'm due for a tranny fluid change and some other fluid changes, like brake fluid. Motor oil looks like new but it's been in there a while, calender-wise.
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A little update....
I googled the compatibility of Type F and Dex-Merc. The only specific info I found was that Type F is not compatible with Mercon. That makes me wonder if it is also incompatible with Dex-Merc. In general, most of the stuff I found mentioned Dex II, III, Mercon and Dex-Merc being compatible with each other. Also a lot on incompatibilty of Mercon V and Dex VI with earlier fluids. I'm thinking I need to get as much of the Type F out as possible, or replace it with fresh Type F. Fresh Type F might be the best way to go at this point.
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I haven;t seen Type-F in a parts store in years.
Maybe I just didn't notice.
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Hi SuperSix, I did checked online and Advance Auto has their own type F fluid, and Auto Zone has one that is cause Coastal Type F
About 2 years ago I replaced the transmission and filled it Castro Type F fluid from Advance Auto store.
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I believe it is still available. It should be as it is used in other stuff besides Ford trannys. I think it's one of the few w/o friction modifiers, based on what I read yesterday on the interwebs search.
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http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Coastal-640-oz-Multitrac-tractor-fluid/_/N-25af?itemIdentifier=54318&_requestid=754670 (http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Coastal-640-oz-Multitrac-tractor-fluid/_/N-25af?itemIdentifier=54318&_requestid=754670)
This was recommended to me as a good. I don't have any experience yet though as soon as my assembly is complete this will go in and we will see how it works.
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Can I slide this off with a few questions about this tractor hydraulic fluid or do I need to start my own thread?
I have been doing some reading on this tractor fluid and its properties.
The link I posted is for a multitrac formula with an AW 68 rating. I google searched and came up with this supplier in Racine, Wi with some info on their site.
http://www.hfifluidpowerproducts.com/Pages/Hydraulic-Fluid.html (http://www.hfifluidpowerproducts.com/Pages/Hydraulic-Fluid.html)
I doubt shipping fluid like this is cost effective so I will be buying local but info there was helpful.
On a side note,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TCI-386500K-TRANS-SERVICE-KIT-2004R-/400299877836?pt=Other_Vehicle_Parts&hash=item5d33bb65cc&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/TCI-386500K-TRANS-SERVICE-KIT-2004R-/400299877836?pt=Other_Vehicle_Parts&hash=item5d33bb65cc&vxp=mtr)
A hundred for a filter and a gasket, REALLY?
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I ran Mobil 424 tractor fluid for many years without issues. But it's really overkill on a basic build and may even lower your stall speed. If you have a trans brake and stall speed above 3800 then it becomes a asset. Check with your builder before you use it. Also all tractor fluids are not the same. Check the spec on Mobil 424 and make sure its the same or better.
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We had 55 gallon drums of Mobil 424 where I used to work. We used it in our front end loader transmissions. I think we paid and evnironmental clean-up company to haul the stuff off when we closed down. I could have saved the company some money by adopting it and bringing it home.
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So how does this 424 compare to the aw68 rating? There is also an aw 32 and aw42 though I guess I need more reasearch as I don't know what these all mean.
Since I'm the "builder" I am not sure. I hesitate to use the term, I'm more of am assembler with help.
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I'm not sure on how those rating relate to Mobil 424. Many years of research and a lot of pro's use the Mobil stuff.