IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => Transmissions => Topic started by: SuperSix on May 01 2012, 07:24:17 PM
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I went fishing Saturday, decided to drive the T.
Only about a 15 minutes drive to my buddy's house. (we were taking his boat out, he was towing)
Driving along, I head a slight "pop", and then no gears at all. Luckily, I coasted into his driveway.
No reverse, no forward gears, nothing. Linkage is fine - car won't roll in park.
This is the trans from the motor/trans combo i bought - supposedly ~3k miles, and "no issues". Verbatim from the for sale post:
"The transmission was built by JIMMY'S out of Mundelein, IL. It shifts perfectly at around 5300 RPM. No flare, no issues."
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/threads/complete-engine-and-transmission-combo.371080/ (http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/threads/complete-engine-and-transmission-combo.371080/)
I am thinking the forward drum took a shit. I did have it overfilled by a quart or so, I had planned on draining it in a few days. no fluid loss, etc.
We towed it back to my house after the fishing trip..
Sigh...
So - I am going to pull it out, take it to the trans guy, and have him go through it.
Que sera, sera, eh?
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yep
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yep
"Yep" as in forward drum?
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Could ~1qt overfill cause something like this?
The car sure as hell doesn't make much more than stock HP - It's only running 13PSI..
Blue tops, TT chip, stock turbo, D5, etc.
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Mine did the same thing on a new trans first track day, would not move backwards but we could push it forward. Sun shell broke in a few peices. Been fine for 3 years since the part is now billet along with the rest that was there.
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Damn...sorry to hear that.
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yep as in que sera, sera
No, the overfill did not do it...just a fluke, I suspect. My first guess would be the drum, but, until it's apart, I would not bet on it
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Jimmy's is supposed to be a good 200R4 builder lots of people in the mid-west use him. maybe reach out to him 847-949-7507 I know a few people that have used him
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sorry nothing to do with a "low mile no issues".. I call it a random SOB. Tranny parts break . Just wip it out an get into it.. Goin with "billet" parts ??
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Jimmy's is supposed to be a good 200R4 builder lots of people in the mid-west use him. maybe reach out to him 847-949-7507 I know a few people that have used him
I feel weird calling him about it, I wasn't the original purchaser, not sure who WAS the original purchaser, etc.
sorry nothing to do with a "low mile no issues".. I call it a random SOB. Tranny parts break . Just wip it out an get into it.. Goin with "billet" parts ??
No idea until I pull it out and get it to the builder to see what's up. The billet drum I used in my GN trans was ~450.00 by itself, and this is basically a stock motor - not sure what will be needed, and want to keep the costs down.
But of course, I want it fixed right so I don't have to worry about it. This is the car I am giving to my son after he completes 4 years in the Air Force, so it wil be in the family for awhile.
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when my stator broke a few years back it didn't move either.
Good luck
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Jimmy got a real job with benefits so you may have to wait for a phone call back. I think he's only in the shop on weekends.
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back in the "day" we broke just about every part in the trans. I know it is some $$$ for a good drum but look at what just happened to you.. You have to get it in an out. Have it fixed.. Whats that goin to cost ??
I didn't know Jimmys was only doin part time.. This stuff does get old after a while. Thank God I don't do it anymore. Ya wouldn't survive !!! New guys all know everything already an will run in the 10s easy.. (well on paper they will :icon_madu: ) :rofl:
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back in the "day" we broke just about every part in the trans. I know it is some $$$ for a good drum but look at what just happened to you.. You have to get it in an out. Have it fixed.. Whats that goin to cost ??
I didn't know Jimmys was only doin part time.. This stuff does get old after a while. Thank God I don't do it anymore. Ya wouldn't survive !!! New guys all know everything already an will run in the 10s easy.. (well on paper they will :icon_madu: ) :rofl:
I agree - I will get it fixed right. I really don't like pulling transmissions. .
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Especially when you just put it in...
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Especially when you just put it in...
Yep. The Harbor Freight trans jack will help when removing now.. Still sucks
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Update!
Finally took the trans to my rebuilder.
Turns out the pump exploded into ~5 pieces - no bueno.
Everything else looked OK, looks like they used 1/2 of a full rebuild kit, some things were stock, some aftermarket. The stator is hardened, stock drum though. I don't know if my son or I want to pony up ~$400 for the badass forged drum though.
We are planning on putting this back in his 87 T - stock for now, but upgrading the turbo and injectors soon.
Are the stock drums that bad? Trans guy is telling me I should replace it...
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If it is already apart and the trans guy (who I assume you trust) says to replace the drum, then have it upgraded just for the peace of mind. :cheers:
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It is really debatable when one needs the hardened drum. Many stock drums will work into the elevens and survive many runs...Others don't. I wonder how much the age and number of cycles plays into the equation. Personally, I would think if the tranny is apart, it would be a wise investment as it might cost twice or three times as much tomorrow if it fails.
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True, but the one that came out is in good shape, no wear, etc.
We need to find the funds though, $400.00+ just for the drum.
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You don't think that the number of miles on the original account for wear?
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It broke 2 years ago. Spend the money on it now, I know $400 isn't pocket change but it will be cheap money now versus putting it back together and it lets go in a month's time.
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The reason I am saying what I am is because I don't like to gamble, I prefer to play it safe... at least with other people's money. :D
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You don't think that the number of miles on the original account for wear?
If course. He didn't mic it though. He showed me where the wear would be, and what it would look like if severely worn, and the drum looked fine.
It broke 2 years ago. Spend the money on it now, I know $400 isn't pocket change but it will be cheap money now versus putting it back together and it lets go in a month's time.
The reason I am saying what I am is because I don't like to gamble, I prefer to play it safe... at least with other people's money. :D
I will probably replace it. We will see what the total bill would be..
I have some business prospects I am looking into, and will need every $ I have saved. But, I'm smart enough to know it's an investment.
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ahhhh my 2 cents :player: Ya know whats aggravating as hell ??? Sitting on a highway dead in the breakdown lane. Then an asswhole like me flying by seeing how close I can get to your car :icon_madu: . I can have the trannys in an out in no time but we did a lot of them over the years. Your trans is all apart. Do the billet drum NOW.. Why trust it ?? I have broken just about everything in a 200 R4. I speak from experience. Hardened one's just break cleaner . :cheers:
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You don't think that the number of miles on the original account for wear?
If course. He didn't mic it though. He showed me where the wear would be, and what it would look like if severely worn, and the drum looked fine.
It broke 2 years ago. Spend the money on it now, I know $400 isn't pocket change but it will be cheap money now versus putting it back together and it lets go in a month's time.
The reason I am saying what I am is because I don't like to gamble, I prefer to play it safe... at least with other people's money. :D
I will probably replace it. We will see what the total bill would be..
I have some business prospects I am looking into, and will need every $ I have saved. But, I'm smart enough to know it's an investment.
You are missing my point. I am trying to say that I don't believe that a part that has been used for 25 years has the structural integrity of a a new one due to fatigue....no matter how it appears to the naked eye...
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Understood.
Trans guys called tonight - 1300 for the rebuild. without the $400 drum. eek..
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I have not kept up with such, but that does not sound out of line...might be cheap--make that not high by what many would charge
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is there a book rate on a rebuild? maybe Rich can tell us what kind of hours go into one.
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Understood.
Trans guys called tonight - 1300 for the rebuild. without the $400 drum. eek..
For a freshening I pay half that...by a 200 specialist. Chris at CK has a street/strip 200 for 1899.
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That sounds a bit steep by me too. I agree with the advice given above.
For my money though, I'd be contacting either Lonnie Diers at Extreme Automatics or Dave Husek at Turbo Buick Performance, or Vince Janis at Janis Transmissions & shipping the tranny to them. I'm sure that any & all of these guys can re-build your tranny for less & include some billet parts.
:cheers:
dave
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Are you allowed to bring your own parts?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2004R-STEEL-BILLET-SHAFT-FORWARD-DRUM-/171174741373?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27dacf457d&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2004R-STEEL-BILLET-SHAFT-FORWARD-DRUM-/171174741373?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27dacf457d&vxp=mtr)
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Are you allowed to bring your own parts?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2004R-STEEL-BILLET-SHAFT-FORWARD-DRUM-/171174741373?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27dacf457d&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2004R-STEEL-BILLET-SHAFT-FORWARD-DRUM-/171174741373?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27dacf457d&vxp=mtr)
Yep - I can. Thanks for the heads up, I bought it, great price - Says it's from CK, they are $400 on his site - good deal!
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Check it for run out once you get it, I had one my builder recommended not using.
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Understood.
Trans guys called tonight - 1300 for the rebuild. without the $400 drum. eek..
For a freshening I pay half that...by a 200 specialist. Chris at CK has a street/strip 200 for 1899.
That sounds a bit steep by me too. I agree with the advice given above.
For my money though, I'd be contacting either Lonnie Diers at Extreme Automatics or Dave Husek at Turbo Buick Performance, or Vince Janis at Janis Transmissions & shipping the tranny to them. I'm sure that any & all of these guys can re-build your tranny for less & include some billet parts.
:cheers:
dave
I am going to ask him for a breakdown - He wants to do a total rebuild, I want a freshening - I think that may be the disconnect.
Check it for run out once you get it, I had one my builder recommended not using.
Will do.
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Mine cost me 1200 with a shift kit and billet band anchor, make sure they update the band anchor sucks when the sheer off when your chasing a harley.......
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http://www.transmissioncenter.net/200-4r.htm (http://www.transmissioncenter.net/200-4r.htm)
Head over here and search page for
#22BP. 200-4R Billet Band Anchor Pin.
They also have a wide carbon band if that interests you.
Or call up David Husek at turbobuick performance. He can sell you everything you need.
larrym who assembled yours?
Unfortunately, trans guys aren't real willing to share their secrets. They are earned, i get that. I'm glad several have answered my questions as to the "mysteries" inside the magic hydraulic box. They know they have yo by the short n curlies and apply pressure to part you with your money.
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It had a relatively new standard width Kevlar band on it. He's putting in a wider band, Alto I think. He said they should be mandatory on the 200-R4.
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I was lucky we have a local guru in Black Creek he puts together metric 200 3 speeds for racers. I took it to him he is a 1 man show but worth the wait IMO
Thats 1200 canadian so 1100 merican!
http://www.classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=8505 (http://www.classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=8505)
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Here's the junk I have in my 200...and keep in mind I beat on this thing every weekend spring to fall at the track.
Art Carr hardened drum
Billet input shaft
Heat treated stator support tube
Heat treated sun gear shell
.500 tv boost valve and .296 intermediate valve
Billet anchor pin
Shift recalibration kit
10 vane pump
Biggest external transmission cooler I could find
Transmission temperature gauge...cuz heat is the number one killer
Billet servo
Extra clutches/steels
Deep pan
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Killing me slowly lol well hopefully I won't have to worry about the tranny again for some years.
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http://www.turbobuickperformance.com/Standard.htm (http://www.turbobuickperformance.com/Standard.htm)
I'd be inclined to replace the Kevlar band with a wide carbon unit. The Kevlar has been noted to overheat and warp the direct drum, or so I've read. Mr. Husek should be able to get you one.
http://www.oregonperformancetransmission.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=OPTI&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ALT-43961C (http://www.oregonperformancetransmission.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=OPTI&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ALT-43961C)
or here a bit cheaper
http://www.transmissioncenter.net/200-4r.htm (http://www.transmissioncenter.net/200-4r.htm)
you have to scroll down the page a bit #22x wide carbon band