IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: Tim Hensley on August 01 2018, 03:54:01 AM
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i have a DLS 210-210 roller with champion iron heads,and intake,complete forged bottom end and iron center caps.A BJM balancer and JW flexplate
I’m in Hawaii and I’m sure someone has a dyno, but I have not really looked for one .
but where would you shift it at if your were to take a guess?
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5800
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Thanks I like that number
I had been shifting 5500 but my butt dyno said it was pulling past that.
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You could always take it to the track and see what it likes. But I think Steve has pretty damn close. I know with my 224/224 cam I gained 2 tenths shifting at 6400 compared to 6000 but my lifters weren't up to par. I can't wait to hit the track and see what the car likes!
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I learned by experience. My PTE 210/210 was still pulling hard at 6200 but it would suddenly go BANG scaring the heck out of me.
I quit driving it about 3.5 years ago because it smoked so much which appeared to be the valve guides. William Avila and I swapped a new set of heads on in June.
Here are a couple of pictures that show why over revving is bad..and, it did quit smoking with the new heads..LOL the wages of sin are expensive. :rock:
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Wow, that is crazy! I can see why it smoked. Were the springs binding at the high rpms?
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Don't think so. I think the dampers lost control and shattered. The valves had not hit the pistons.
I think mistakes were made by the original builder that were exposed when the roller was installed but the over revving finished them off
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Every set of heads I've ever built with those stupid plastic lined seals have leaked and smoked.
I won't install a set of those ever again... if a customer insists on using them.
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Did you replace the old springs with beehive springs?
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Did you replace the old springs with beehive springs?
I bought a complete set of heads from Billy Anderson that had about 400 miles on them. He took them apart, checked them out, and lapped the valves.
Billy does not like Beehive springs. I recalled he used them a short while and then would not use them again. I forgot why he does not use them as that was quite a few years ago.
We placed the single GM shims with 0.040" Cometics when we went back together.
The heads we pulled off did not have the exhaust valves replaced so that obviously chewed up the seals on the exhausts, but the intakes were popped off and that is where the oil went.
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Billy is the one that sold me my roller cam kit with beehives. That haven't given me any issues.
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I often hear the ''I won't run beehives'' story.
...but I've yet to see anyone with an actual problem post about it.
Most of the time the negativity seems to be because there's only one spring. You know, like stock springs on a LOT of cars.
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5800. 1-2 shift on mine goes off at about 5300 and the 2-3 shift at 5800. I use 130 lb valve springs with this 212/212 flat tappet. I have it on good authority that AC convertors couple better shifting them higher on the 2-3 shift. My trap speed concurs.
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I often hear the ''I won't run beehives'' story.
...but I've yet to see anyone with an actual problem post about it.
Most of the time the negativity seems to be because there's only one spring. You know, like stock springs on a LOT of cars.
Billy used them and then stopped. He posted about problems with them but I don't recall his issues. Some of us consider him to be somewhat legit in the buick business :D Good thing about Billy is that he does not care what others think unless they are consistently faster than him.
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Dan sent me PAC 1200 and I set then as instructed.I have a set of Johnson short travel lifters.
What are the numbers on PTE cam? I had it to the track last Sunday forgot my laptop so no data,I just swooped out my Edge LU to a Extreme Automatic NL.car went 2 mph faster,it use to shift at 5500 so I had set my 2step at 5700,1-2 shift was under the 5700 but it bounced off the rev limiter for the 2-3 shift.I was going to change the governor out but I’m going to raise the rev limiter.and see how it goes.the bottom end is a full forged rotating assembly.so I will report back next outing in two weeks.
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How does the new nlu converter "act" compared to the lockup? Are they different rated stall speeds? Was the gain picked up in the 60' or on the top end? I'd be interested to see the time slips comparing the two runs and what the weather conditions were for each day.
Thanks for the good info.
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Dan sent me PAC 1200 and I set then as instructed.I have a set of Johnson short travel lifters.
What are the numbers on PTE cam?
I don't recall the numbers. It was 210/210 and I "think" the lift was very close to 0.500". The '90's are a very long way away for me LOL I know the cam has never quit pulling. It just stopped when it hit 6200-6300 and it backfired suddenly :D the curve on PL had not topped out.
Dan was still at PTE in those days and he may have picked the profile. It was a Comp billet roller. It came with Speed Pro rollers. I asked Billy about using Comp short travel rollers and he said he did not like them. That may well be because they were chinese and he had problems with them-or maybe he just thought I was less likely to blow it up with them....:D He has known me for a long time.
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Billy used them and then stopped. He posted about problems with them but I don't recall his issues. Some of us consider him to be somewhat legit in the buick business :D Good thing about Billy is that he does not care what others think unless they are consistently faster than him.
Bill is definitely one of the top guys in the Buick world but he likes to rev the crap out of these motors. Remember people crying when he beat them with his destroked 231?
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Yep, it sounded good!
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The 60 were about the same I’ll look tonight when I get home at the slips closer.i was more focused on my hitting the rev limiter.the stall is supposed to be the same 2800 but no laptop no good data. But my bestET and mph to date and not a good pass just trying to focus on
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Post em up if you can. I'd like to see the splits and mph at the splits too.
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That converter should be better than the Edge by a good margin
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I'm sure it should be but without slips it is hard to tell how much. Or maybe a dyno sheet but I'm more into track performance as I tend not to race dyno sheets. I want to see how it is getting to the ground.
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My comment had nothing to do with anything you posted. It was my opinion based on past observations and was not intended to interfere with your requests for data.
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LU. NL
60 1.783. 1.781
330 4.961 4.898
660. 7.646. 7.548
Mph 91.29. 91.98
1000 ft9.700. 9.852
ET 11.971. 11.798
Mph 112.80. 115.95
This was my best ever pass with LU Best 60 foot ever lots of 1.85 60 ft before this pass.My 1/8 mile mph has been consistent low 91s and 1320 in 112s ET 12.0s and logs show 5300 through the traps
This NL pass I tried to get a good 60 but was not sure about how to stage the new converter the brakes were holding good @ 2800 and 5 lb boost I think it could have gone a little higher.Then I had to lift when it hit the rev limiter to get it to make the 2-3 shift befor the 1/8 And best 1320 mph and ET ever And just looking at the rpm it was 5000 at the line.same everything boost ,timing and track
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Good info. Looks to be tighter in the upper mph as the lower looks very similar. I would try a harder launch. I think you can get it to the 1.60s with decent track prep and good tires. Maybe quicker with some work at it.
I didn't think you were trying to limit info Steve. I'm a junkie . I understand all doesn't apply to everyone, but some can apply to a few of us.
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I didn't think you were trying to limit info Steve. I'm a junkie . I understand all doesn't apply to everyone, but some can apply to a few of us.
You still seem to be accusing me of wanting to limit data which must be something you assume I would do. There is no need to try to defend your desire for data. Every real racer is a data analyst, or, has one in his "team".
Let me point out a few things which makes it impossible to draw conclusions about the converter performance from the data at hand.
What were the ambient weather conditions? Temperature, humidity, and barometric pressure from run with the lock up and this run? What was the track temperature? These are necessary to establish some kind of datum or baseline.
What kind of tires is he running and was the pressure the same? Was the track prepped the same on both runs? Did the tires spin on either run?
Was the Edge converter being locked on top end?
There were a couple more points I wanted to make, but, I forgot them while I was feeding goats and sheep this morning because I was concentrating on trying to remain vertical and being determined to kick every thing that butted or hooked me trying to get to the feed in the sack in my arms :D
In short, the data cannot be analyzed in a meaningful way-we knew that already, of course because we had no logs as well as the things I mentioned. Too bad we cannot overlay (in the computer) two PL logs to see the difference between runs.
What I see in the time slips is that the non lock up is more efficient on the top end. How much, I don't know because we don't know if the Edge was locked. And, I agree that he needs to leave at a higher boost to try to pick up the bottom end.
Looks to me like he has some left in the tank...
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I must really come off wrong.and I post that with a big smile. :D
I know you have been into these cars from the get go and know how much conditions make a difference. Even the conditions you and I experience are different than the guys up north. Newer tech doesn't always work but I do think the newer converter tech is nothing short of amazing. The ability to flash em up and then tighten it down on the big end is mind bending compared to the stuff from the eighties.
I still think looking at slips from the same car even though it has different parts and is on a different day has merit. Knowing what the driver was doing and how it launched is a crucial piece of info too. That is why I asked how the converter acted compared to the old one. You get to read into the info or take things away based on what is said and the experiences.
And a big thank you to Tim for posting the info.
And I don't think you are with holding info.( :D also with a big smile)
Another thing I notice is the 1000' time. While the eighth, and quarter are quicker for the nlu the Lu 1000' is a tenth off. Shifting prob? Trans not getting a good 1-2? Could be some more time in that.
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Locked or unlocked? You could be a doctor and do your diagnosis from the golf course! :D
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The last fast car I messed with out here is a pro mod vette with a bbc. We went to the track in the summer and the temp was 102. The car was blubbering to my ear and it ran an 8.80. I told the guy it was way rich and we needed to rejet the carbs to lean it out. He refused because he was afraid to mess up the tune.
The sun went down and the temp dropped 20 degs. The car ran 8.40 and had a nice crisp sound...Ambien t conditions have a big effect on tuning. Brad is changing his fueling all the time to suit the day and he runs very consistently.
I stand by my beliefs that you cannot compare time slips from different times, weeks, or maybe months :)
The fact that the car picked up 3 mph on a non lock up converter is enough reason to question any analysis. There are no short cuts on the road to paralysis by analysis
:rock: :cheers:
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One of my favorite memories of Motormouth Mike is when he claimed he worked on his Buick and picked up a tenth or so. He did not seem to think the fact that his improved run was a made on a different track that was lower in altitude and 30 degrees colder was relevant.
Later, he replaced his bad maf and the car picked up again! LOL
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Tim! fix that transmission! It needs to shift when it's supposed to. All the analysis in the world does no good when there is an unwanted variable lurking in the bushes :)
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One of my favorite memories of Motormouth Mike is when he claimed he worked on his Buick and picked up a tenth or so. He did not seem to think the fact that his improved run was a made on a different track that was lower in altitude and 30 degrees colder was relevant.
Later, he replaced his bad maf and the car picked up again! LOL
Yikes, harsh much?
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the truth is neither harsh, or soft...it simply is what it is! :D
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the truth is neither harsh, or soft...it simply is what it is! :D
I suppose the same goes for character flaws.
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Not really, the truth implies an irrefutable fact. A flaw implies something that can be mended. It's really more a perception
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And perception is reality.
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:rofl: :rofl: :rock: :rock: :cheers:
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quote Tire diameter affects the apparent gear ratio at the tire as it interacts with the road surface. Put a set of 34" tires on a jeep that had 25" tires originally, and you can easily feel the apparent difference in the gearing. end quote
Is this statement perception or reality. I believe it;s perception because reality dictates the torque to the ground is the same either way.
Only in our minds can reality and perception be the same.
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Others draw a different opinion-or should I say perception? Perception and reality can often be one and the same...
https://www.onallcylinders.com/2015/07/30/tire-math-calculating-the-effects-of-tire-diameter-on-final-drive-ratio/ (https://www.onallcylinders.com/2015/07/30/tire-math-calculating-the-effects-of-tire-diameter-on-final-drive-ratio/)
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https://www.hotrod.com/articles/how-gear-works/
This is my reality.
That article Steve posted doesn't compute to drag racing. IMO Final drive ratio's and GEAR ratio's are different concepts.
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The writer of that article shot himself in the foot with his final sentence.
Take a simple example. A one to one gear ratio bicycle with 6" rear wheel is very easy to pedal. Replace it with a 30" rear wheel and it is not nearly as easy to pedal.
Most of us know that If we change the gears on a bike, it can be very easy to pedal and not go very fast, or it can be very hard to pedal but go much faster.
Somewhere most of us have learned how big vs small gears or pulleys work. In the case of a tire, it is the next to the last gear in the equation. It works against the surface of the earth just as if it were the final gear.
We use the term effective, or apparent, because we understands that it changes the effect and we can see the difference on the clocks even tho we cannot put a tape measure on it.
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What if we add inertia to the mix?
I must admit I don't get the ''apparent'' change.
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It's okay. It's not a test :D
If you had ever used a roto-tiller with 6" tines and one with 12" tines, it might be easier to understand.
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The 12 in. is trying to do twice the work[or more] I have used a rototiller in my time tho not that specific test;but yea it would pull on your arms harder but nothing to do with a ratio
If it can't be measured it doesn't exist.
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respectfully.. .baloney! Man has always been limited by his lack of imagination :) Some dare to lead, some deign to follow, and a few sit back and watch
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Well in this one thread you have covered BOTH ends of the spectrum so which is it. Reality or perception?
Imagination has no place in basic math.
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Makes sense to me. Perception is often reality. Depends upon one's vantage point.
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Thanks for the time on this thread.My 5500 shift was just picked because it’s the number I felt good with,no scientific data.It took me two try’s to get the governor to shift at 5500.Thanks Steve for your input,I believe the transmission is ok.I didn’t talk to Lonnie at EX but the guy I did talk to said the new converter could make the shift go up.Im glad I took time to ask this question, I was about ready to pull the pan and work on the governor,but I’m convinced to raise my rev limiter. I may have been leaving power on the table by not reving it a little higher.
I was hopping some one would have had some Dyno numbers with a DLS cam.Some people talk that these make power down low and some rev them pretty hard i was shooting some were in the middle.
Lonnie and Edge said to lock it and I did a time our two but I didn’t see any reall improvement.
In Hawaii our speed limit is 55 and most of the time 45 so I don’t miss that anointing clutch locking and unlocking 40 times in 50 miles.
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Tim, I would be very surprised if my cam and your cam are somewhat similar in specs. Dan Strego was at PTE when I got that cam from them and he was the engine guy-not Harry. I'm guessing it has a bit more lift than mine as mine was apparently designed to clear stock guides, I suspect. As we know, Dan was a very talented engine guy. I know he built the engines for Tweaked 2 and I recall LC talking to him about the first Tweaked.
My cam has a very flat power curve starting off idle and continued all the way to 6200 when it would go POP! The third gear rpm curve on PL never showed any change in the acceleration rate. It was flat as a board in trend. There was/is no "getting up on the curve" at some point and then falling off later. Even in no boost, normal, driving, it has no weak spots.
The only problem I see is letting the engine go past the point where the valve train can no longer control the valves. Hydraulic rollers have a significantly lower point for loss of control due to component weight than do solid rollers and much more than flat tappet lifters.
I picked 5800, not because it was at the end of the "power" curve, but because after shifts, the rpm curve showed no real change of of acceleration rate and it kept me away from the point where things would end with a bang.
I am particularly nervous about the tranny failing to shift as we spent a year with William Avila's car trying to get it to shift to third under wot conditions and three transmission experts said the tranny was okay. He was having to shift manually to third (at least when he remembered that he had to shift) and performance was all over the place.
In your case, I would suggest setting the rev limiter to 6000 and see if that gives it enuf room to shift properly consistently. I confess that I was confusing hitting the rev limiter with failing to shift. And, yes, a looser converter can/will change the shift point a bit higher particularly if the car is making more power.
Ah, you mention converter lock up...I just changed my original Precision converter which had a very low stall that did not want to work with my T66 turbo to one that probably has about 700 more rpm of stall. On the original, the lock up was a hard thud every time it locked up. It did not matter if you were going 45 mph, or had touched the brake momentarily to unlock it at 75 and then it relocked...Ban g! The worst case was when the car was in overdrive. The new converter does not seem to lock nearly as hard. I'm not sure what is up with that but I think it is the higher stall/more slip..but, so far, I'm not complaining! LOL
I think Rich is correct on your car. You need to launching between 10 and 15 psi. I don't know what kind of tires you run at the track, but, you need sticky ones!
Hope you get it all sorted out and have some serious fun! That sounds like an oxymoron...
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BTW, Tim, you are running a 28" tire in the rear, aren't you? Besides suggesting to the engine you are running a taller gear and giving you more usable power band preventing you from needing a shift point into fourth gear, it gives you a longer foot print so you can launch harder.
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PL logs from my own car show me having to flash the convertor to 3950 to get into the 1.5's. As a comparison, I followed Murphsters thread as he posted all the data he had from taking a stock turbo to its limit. He was flashing the convertor to about the same RPM to hit the 1.5's.
You'll need enuf RPM drop at he shift points to keep the engine in it's 'wheelhouse' instead of buzzing the engine past it's RPM limit of making HP.
A good convertor will give a slip percentage in the single digits.
In general, a looser convertor makes it easier to launch...but will give up some slip on the big end. If you can tune, you can run a tighter convertor and get it to flash at a higher RPM...and give nothing away on the top end charge.
My own car goes through the 1/8th mile traps at 5500 and the 1/4 at 5900.
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PL logs from my own car show me having to flash the convertor to 3950 to get into the 1.5's. As a comparison, I followed Murphsters thread as he posted all the data he had from taking a stock turbo to its limit. He was flashing the convertor to about the same RPM to hit the 1.5's.
You'll need enuf RPM drop at he shift points to keep the engine in it's 'wheelhouse' instead of buzzing the engine past it's RPM limit of making HP.
Wasn't he using a higher stall converter? Did I mention I pulled a 1.61 60ft with the stock converter?
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What did the stock convertor 'flash' too...that's the data that's important. Most will hold it to a certtain PSI and launch. They have no idea what the convertor is doing.
You'd be surprised how low the stall is on my 16930...but with Scoob tuning low gear...he can get it to flash anywhere he wants.
Norbs ran a 2800 Precision LU multidisc with a 70 Ptrim and a large v band exhaust housing and went 1.51. Sounds like a match made in hell..but he got it to work via tuning and leaving at 20 PSI off the transbrake.
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It's really dangerous to compare various converters as they probably have different torque multiplication ratios...yeah, they act like a gear as well LOL
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It's really dangerous to compare various converters as they probably have different torque multiplication ratios...yeah, they act like a gear as well LOL
Exactly why it's important to get out to the track and log what the convertor is doing.
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while remembering that it may act differently on another car that has more or less power coming out of the flexplate :)
I always remember the 9/11 that I bought. It would flash to 4000 any time I hit the pedal, was slushy as heck in normal driving, and never showed a blip in the rpm curve when I locked it....I never saw less than 22% slip at wot on the top end... I think it was a bad converter from day one.
Converters are extremely complex and when you get a good one, you know it. I still maintain it is the most important part in the combination. 25 years ago, the AC converter was damn good, and today, it still is hard to beat. It does not slip much in normal cruising. Gas mileage is not hit very much and it is very streetable
Non lock ups are lighter weight and generally accelerate more quickly than a lock up
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This AC 16930 I have sure works nice with the 6262 JB. It does it all.
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Yaklin's old car ran mid tens with that converter and a big turbo...stock cam
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Yaklin's old car ran mid tens with that converter and a big turbo...stock cam
Joe ran bottom 10's for years with a 109 and a 19930. One of the locals went 9.68 with a 19930 and a 109.
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I wonder if AC makes them as good as he used to? I see he has a hd model listed on his site these days
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I wonder if AC makes them as good as he used to? I see he has a hd model listed on his site these days
I doubt he'd mess with a winner.
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My next trip to the drag strip will be the 24-25 this month.Ill be ready for sure.I have three weeks of 6 -10hr days at work but it won’t stop me from being ready.I won’t forget my laptop again I hope and I hope Bob can fix my scanmaster G by then but old reliable 2.1 works great.Im working with a friend at work to find me a Toughtbook but I have went back to my old HP and cable for logging,it’s never failed yet.
I do run 28X9 Hoosier slicks. I’ll finish the year off with them.and select a new set next year. That will be a new thread (Hoosier or MT)
I’ll be anxious to see how it goes if I can get a good clean pass on the first try with the limiter set at 6000,I’ll see how much boost I can hold.
(Scoobum) your right I always looked at psi.5 psi @2800,this gave me enough time to look back at the tree to try to cut a descent light. I had enough brake to hold 10 psi but often I was so distracted I was caught sleeping at the light LOL.Lonnie keeps trying to get me to put a Transbrake in,he says it will make up for my age.ive always been willing to give up 60 foot for reaction time and constant ET.but I have always wanted a constant ET in the 11s.
I was happy with the Edge converter and was starting to get a handle on the drag race thing.then the track closed for two years.it just reopened this summer and I broke the converter the second time to the new track.This is why the new converter and the new learning curve.
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Tim, I got a call from Jason awhile back. He was completely unhinged cuz a guy was messing with him in the other lane. I told Jason to forget about the other car completely...a nd roll in and barely turn on the 2nd yellow. Let the other car do whatever they want...and when it turns green...then boost your car up to whatever you want...and go. Have a game plan in your head as to how much boost/RPM you wanna leave with...and forget about the other lane.
Now...heads up racing...is a different ball of wax. Link below is yours truly...and what I'm doing...takes practice...and I do this consistently. The car runs 7 flat at 100...pass after pass...and cuts a 1.68 consistently with almost zero spool time as you can see in the vid. Getting it to spool quick...is low gear tuning...and low gear tuning will get it to haul its ass through 1st and 2nd as well. I typically run 32/26 for timing when heads up racing...more low gear timing if the track is really biting. The low gear 02's have to come in around 780. Typically, Erics low gear default fueling is pig rich. I use Erics 110-112 race chip with VP 112...and you'll hear the car hit full boost almost instantly.
Now...this is a first Gen CEA turbo I have on my car. These things start pulling like a freight train at 23 PSI...and surprise surprise...tha t's where I leave mine at. Boggles the mind why guys try tuning these turbos at 20 PSI...tho I think having a lack of testicular fortitude plays into it.
Racing hints. Never show your hand. You'll hear me get out of the loud pedal at the 1/8th mile...and coast for the win. The car will coast through the 1/4 traps at 12.x at 8x. Most can't read a timeslip...and are fixated on ET...and they honestly believe it's a 12.x car. I take a peek in the rear view at the 330 mark...and then decide where I'm gonna get out of it.
Reaction time. I bracket race this car. Watch the board for my 536 against his 716. The race was over with on the tree. Scoob never gives them an inch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFjkrBgHMCc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFjkrBgHMCc)
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Brad gives some good advice, Tim. Don't worry about beating the other guy. Concentrate on driving your car. Make it a one car bye race at the beginning.
A few weeks ago after putting new heads on my car, I finally got the converter swapped out. The prior multi clutch would not go over 2700 rpm with the T66 against the foot brake and that was giving me only about three pounds of boost.
I had bought another Precision. converter (used) a few years ago from a guy in Florida and it was marked 3500. Against the foot brake it would start turning the rear wheels right at 3000 rpm and 8-9 psi of boost. The rear brakes were very loose and they need to be replaced. I remembered that this car has one of the old Stage Right mechanical tranny brakes in it. I locked the tranny and came down on the gas. It hesitated around 3000 for a split second and then the boost jumped and the rpm went past 3500 before i let off.
So, yeah, a tranny brake will work, but, transmission and converter life can, and will, go to hell. The Stage Right does not have a sterling reputation and I am too uncoordinated to cut a good light with it anyway so I won't use it. It generally costs a lot more to rebuild the transmission when it does blow up as well.
My advice is to stay far away from one :)
Follow Brad's advice, don't worry about the other lane when you go to the track. If he leaves two seconds before you, don't worry. Concentrate on a technique that gets your car to leave hard. Leaning out first gear and adding some timing can make a lot of difference. Be sure to take your lap top so you can study what happened after each run.
Be sure to run enuf boost to get your turbo in the band where it really works.
A 28" tire makes your car think it has an apparent gearing of about 3.20 which is very close to the TTA's rear gear of 3.23. The rpm will be about the same at the line for same mph IF the TTA is running a 26" tire. My experience is that a taller tire puts more load on the engine at launch which builds heat and spools the turbo faster. Of course, the TTA probably is no dummy either and has 28" tires on the back as well :D
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This is Norbs' 200 trans from a million years ago...and it has a Stageright trans brake. It works...but I've never used it. When released it puts a helluva shock through the trans. I use line lock to keep the rear brakes cool...and tighten the rear brakes to maximum. I have a couple of other things done to the rear brakes...but it's not safe for street use what I've done.
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Tim...you'll likely find the more boost you throw at it...the higher your shift points will be. I wouldn't mess with the governor until you throw some decent boost at it.
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I have a 5857 BB and run 25 psi with a turboTweak 6.1 and a Alky kit.and enough bolt on parts to support 10s. Turbo may be a little small for that,but every thing is in place.I have the line lock and S10 wheel cylinders all primary shoes and braided brake lines.car needs to go on a diet,but car should makes enough horses to run 11.5 fat like she is.
I think it is quoted some wear here.”Lots of fast parts don’t make you FAST” That’s me but I know from expectancies it dose help.As a young boy no matter what dad put me on I was winning races and it led to me getting lots of big time support,but with that came good coughing from the very best not bragging but I am Don Vesco,Gen Romero and even Kenny Roberts.And as a i age you guys on the forms are couches to and I appreciate it.
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With heads and a good convertor it'll go 11's on an easy launch. Kenny Roberts eh!. I bought a brand new 2006 R1 50th Anniversary Special Edition. Mint to this day with an original 6,500 miles on it. It's all original with the exception of a rear fender eliminator kit.
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It looks like it has enough snuff to get close to the mid elevens...I don't know if you have ported heads, or not....but with the rpm capability you have, that turbo will start running low on air soon
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Kenny Roberts eh!. I bought a brand new 2006 R1 50th Anniversary Special Edition. Mint to this day with an original 6,500 miles on it. It's all original with the exception of a rear fender eliminator kit.
Before my time (And after his), but there's something special about this nasty nasty bike that was built solely to be nasty nasty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k8hJWKIVNs#t=136 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k8hJWKIVNs#t=136)
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That bike and Skip Asklen (misspelled I’m sure)was assembled at our shop in Robinson Ill.little none fact Kenny’s was a 700 it was a spear motor from previous year bike.there was a 3ed bike but I can’t remember how rode it and if it was a Vesco or team Yamaha.
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Kenny Roberts eh!. I bought a brand new 2006 R1 50th Anniversary Special Edition. Mint to this day with an original 6,500 miles on it. It's all original with the exception of a rear fender eliminator kit.
Before my time (And after his), but there's something special about this nasty nasty bike that was built solely to be nasty nasty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k8hJWKIVNs#t=136 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k8hJWKIVNs#t=136)
Dayum...that thing's badass...and sounds angry!
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Before my time (And after his), but there's something special about this nasty nasty bike that was built solely to be nasty nasty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k8hJWKIVNs#t=136 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k8hJWKIVNs#t=136)
Good thing he had his bone doctor on hand! :icon_lol: That thing sounds amazing!!!
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Damn...sounds like an out of control chain saw....that is one bad bike
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Yeah, they're badass. Stupid power from a 2-stroke inline 4 with a light switch powerband.
Then they mounted it in a 'dirt bike' chassis made of thin walled conduit.
I've had a couple of those come by me at Road Atlanta like I was standing still
....while running over 150mph. Good god man, that sound at full honk in real life.
I'd love to put one of those engines in a modern chassis for a streetbike.
Watch the actual race from the 70's when he scared the living shit out of the Hardly factory team that was 'supposed' to finish 1-2-3. That's a serious ass whipping.
"When they heard it, it was too late" LOL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpsZ_AUFbX4&t=51s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpsZ_AUFbX4&t=51s)
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Kenny Roberts eh!. I bought a brand new 2006 R1 50th Anniversary Special Edition. Mint to this day with an original 6,500 miles on it. It's all original with the exception of a rear fender eliminator kit.
Before my time (And after his), but there's something special about this nasty nasty bike that was built solely to be nasty nasty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k8hJWKIVNs#t=136 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k8hJWKIVNs#t=136)
That is the meanest sounding bike I have heard.
Period.
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That's the meanest sounding bike ever
ever ever ever.
it's just straight up nasty nasty because it was built for one reason... to be nasty nasty nasty.
...and those videos don't compare to real life!
It's also amazing just how old that bike is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deTa9-ttsU4#t=132 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deTa9-ttsU4#t=132)
That's what the actual TZ750 looked like before Yamaha made a 'dirt bike' for the indy mile back when bikes and riders had to do all the events