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Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: daveismissing on February 07 2019, 01:34:21 PM

Title: Intercoolers
Post by: daveismissing on February 07 2019, 01:34:21 PM
Rob O's secret intercooler posts sent me down the rabbit hole:

Cores, seems these are the choices:

Honeywell/Garrett

https://www.garrettmotion.com/racing-and-performance/performance-catalog/intercoolers/ (https://www.garrettmotion.com/racing-and-performance/performance-catalog/intercoolers/)

Spearco/Turbonetics

Asian various?
Don't see any specs


Aluminum is not that difficult to cast so I presume these mfgs all cast their own endtanks?


Steve  has archived a nice old writeup:

http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/ICtest.htm (http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/ICtest.htm)


nice comparison picture from TR custom parts

http://www.buickgn.com/ICCOMPARED.jpg (http://www.buickgn.com/ICCOMPARED.jpg)
(http://www.buickgn.com/ICCOMPARED.jpg)
I presume his stretched SLIC is the GN1 unit (23 rows), anyone know what cores they use?

This looks to be the nearest to stock unit (19 rows?)

https://www.wabtec.com/products/7990/air-air-intercooler-1986-1987-buick-turbo-regal-stock-location-intercooler (https://www.wabtec.com/products/7990/air-air-intercooler-1986-1987-buick-turbo-regal-stock-location-intercooler)

Airflow - top to bottom or left to right - does it matter?

All fun stuff
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Steve Wood on February 07 2019, 01:49:09 PM
I am very cynical about magic IC's any more.  At the point of today's manufacturing, most difference is strictly someone's theoretical projections but we don't really seem to see much, if any, improvement in the real world.

As long as pressure drop across the cooler is insignificant, they work.
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: good2win22 on February 07 2019, 03:58:02 PM
I've been privy to some intercooler testing.  We measured pressure at the compressor and then pressure at the manifold. We also measured temperature rise during the run as well as exhaust pressure but that didn't really seem to change any.  All testing was on the same car. Stock long block, valve springs had been changed, 6262, E85, 120lb injectors, IAT in the up pipe


Stock intercooler  28 psi at manifold = 36 psi at compressor, almost 200 degrees on that pass from starting at ambient
GN1 SLIC    28 psi at manifold = 34-35 at compressor, up in the 170's on temp
Precision SLIC 28 psi at manifold = 34-35 at compressor, up in the 170's on temp


No real advantage to either of the two major aftermarket intercoolers once the boost was over the 25 psi mark.




I did a pass on my precision FMIC on my limited.  Completely different combo but still a 6262.  .4 psi drop at 21 psi at the compressor and only a 30.8 degree rise from ambient. More testing to come with this setup with a few tweaks to come...


My belief is that the airflow across the air to air intercooler is irrelevant when only making passes at the drag strip.  I feel that the intercooler acts as a heat sink during the pass, therefore the size of the intercooler and the degree of the turns that the air has to make plays a key role in the magic of the intercooler. 


my two cents...
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Steve Wood on February 07 2019, 04:26:55 PM
I would not be surprised to find little improvement in performance as E85 does a lot of cooling once the air hits the combustion chamber.

I would have thought that the slic aftermarket ic's would have had less pressure drop than they showed, but perhaps the volume of air being pushed by the turbo was great enuf to overwhelm the increased internal volume.
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: nocooler on February 07 2019, 05:03:19 PM
The thing I’ve noticed is cheap cores have less fin density. The Garrett/bell intercooler cores are supposed to be about as good as it gets. But I’ve seen countless cars fast with cheap low quality china cores both a2a and a2w.
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Steve Wood on February 07 2019, 05:12:08 PM
I had never thought of it, but Jason's remark about the core being a big heat sink has a lot of merit when considering a single pass.
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Scoobum on February 07 2019, 08:09:15 PM
Everything you need to know from my buddy Tyler in Cali...https://www.boostedrps.com/single-post/2018/07/21/Intercooler-Core-Design-and-Effects-A-Guide-to-Evaluating-Various-Intercoolers (https://www.boostedrps.com/single-post/2018/07/21/Intercooler-Core-Design-and-Effects-A-Guide-to-Evaluating-Various-Intercoolers)
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Steve Wood on February 07 2019, 08:19:25 PM
so what happened to Tyler?
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Scoobum on February 07 2019, 08:28:05 PM
so what happened to Tyler?

Was talking to him a couple weeks back. All's well.
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: gusszgs on February 07 2019, 10:09:28 PM
I run a old SL stretch Jackson Fairpark that seems work decent.
Funny, I’ve never seen any testing or much talk about them. Probably cause there’s not many around anymore perhaps.
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Grumpy on February 08 2019, 10:21:34 AM
I run a old SL stretch Jackson Fairpark that seems work decent.
Funny, I’ve never seen any testing or much talk about them. Probably cause there’s not many around anymore perhaps.
Same with the old V4.  I am still not sold on front mounts. Doin some more testing in a few months.
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Grumpy on February 08 2019, 10:22:49 AM
so what happened to Tyler?
kinda disappeared on TB.  :chin:
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Forzfed on February 08 2019, 10:47:03 AM
I run a old SL stretch Jackson Fairpark that seems work decent.
Funny, I’ve never seen any testing or much talk about them. Probably cause there’s not many around anymore perhaps.
Same with the old V4.  I am still not sold on front mounts. Doin some more testing in a few months.
Love my V4!  And with the alky I'm in the 74-78'F intake temps.  I guess I will have to live with those really high temps!
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: earlbrown on February 08 2019, 03:15:51 PM
I had never thought of it, but Jason's remark about the core being a big heat sink has a lot of merit when considering a single pass.


Reminds me of the phase change intercooler.    I still want to build one, one of these days just for the hellovit.
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: good2win22 on February 08 2019, 04:27:12 PM
I run a old SL stretch Jackson Fairpark that seems work decent.
Funny, I’ve never seen any testing or much talk about them. Probably cause there’s not many around anymore perhaps.
Same with the old V4.  I am still not sold on front mounts. Doin some more testing in a few months.
Love my V4!  And with the alky I'm in the 74-78'F intake temps.  I guess I will have to live with those really high temps!
I moved my IAT closer to the intercooler in the up pipe to not have the alky spraying on it.  Trust me when I say that the temps in the manifold with the alky spraying are 20-25 degrees cooler than what is coming from the intercooler
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: earlbrown on February 08 2019, 04:56:54 PM
I would imagine they drop more than that in real life.


Phase change cooling ain't no joke.   Sometimes it's hard to really wrap your head around how much heat energy can be moved around with that stuff.
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: gusszgs on February 08 2019, 05:11:28 PM
The Razors alky Kit IMO has been the best bang for buck of all the bolts on I’ve added. Been a fantastic kit with one pump in 8yrs.
Jason, do you run straight meth? I’ve ALWAYS done so....advice given to me by Julio himself way back.
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: daveismissing on February 08 2019, 05:12:43 PM
I'm thinking those weird-salt bag phase change bags they use for solar heating are the wrong transition temps, we would need to find some other concoction.
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: daveismissing on February 08 2019, 05:13:36 PM
Everything you need to know from my buddy Tyler in Cali...https://www.boostedrps.com/single-post/2018/07/21/Intercooler-Core-Design-and-Effects-A-Guide-to-Evaluating-Various-Intercoolers (https://www.boostedrps.com/single-post/2018/07/21/Intercooler-Core-Design-and-Effects-A-Guide-to-Evaluating-Various-Intercoolers)
That is quite good
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: TexasT on February 08 2019, 06:31:30 PM
Does it help to spray the alchy further away to give it time to cool or is the up pipe plenty of distance in the  plenum for the charge to cool off when spraying the alchy? I guess a plate for under the plenum(like n2o) is too close to the valve and doesn't give the charge enough time to get cooled?
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Steve Wood on February 08 2019, 07:15:08 PM
Seems all we are trying to do is to get the most even mix possible of alky droplets/vapor and air going into all the cylinders where the real vaporization takes place for max charge cooling.

E85 simplifies this process.  To me, one of the largest benefits of alky injection or E85 in the tank is that the A/F ratio for max power is not nearly as critical as it is with straight gasoline.

Whereas injecting straight water provides the most theoretical charge cooling, using straight methanol in our spray systems provides that broader peak A/F which makes it easier to avoid detonation as the "edge" is not that steep.

Side note:  I recall in the old days on alky cars, the danger with methanol was not from detonation, but, from preignition.
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: TexasT on February 08 2019, 07:43:36 PM
Would a water/Meth mix give a greater cool to the charge? Or does it just make the "edge" of the detonation smaller?  After listening to some podcast I can see where guys have problems with distribution. When a guy only sees the o2 on all the cylinders compared to individual cylinders, he may never see just how lean one or more gets and when using the meth as part of the fuel load that lean hurts even if the detonation doesn't occur.
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Steve Wood on February 08 2019, 08:22:42 PM
I was thinking of edge as the falling off point where we are operating safely, and then suddenly, being in detonation and throwing parts thru the block :)

Maybe, I should have said we go from the "Green" safe zone immediately into the "Red" danger zone.

When we add alky to the equation, we seem to insert a greenish yellow zone which still allows us to make safe power and this zone is fairly wide before we get into the red?  My mind and mouth/fingers seem to have a transition zone in between them, these days.  :D

I used to have a page on my site with a bunch of cooling calculations which has disappeared with time.  Of the three primary alcohols, methanol seems to provide the most cooling by a small margin.  In the Sixties when Holley/Spearco sold some water injection kits that sprayed into the carburetor, they were on non boosted applications and they used straight water.  They allowed us to run more timing and we made a little more power. Water always creates more cooling, but, it also "waters down" the fuel content of the mixture.

When GM had the turbo'd Old's and the turbo'd Corvair, they ran a mix.  I am not sure the alky did much other than keep it from freezing easily and they kept it low to eliminate fire potential.  They considered the same for the 84/85 GN's but went to the IC on the 86/87's.  I think they were covering their rears on blown engines on dry tanks??

I think when you run 100% alky, you add a fuel content benefit with regard to octane addition and this fuel content also broadens this transition zone between the "green and red" zones due to the lower sensitivity to A/F as we add more and more methanol to the mix.  This is my conjecture, anyway.

I have seen some cars that were spraying alky make runs with the A/F down around 10.3-1 and then a run at 10.8 with virtually  no change in miles per hour.

Running straight methanol and no gas might give you the same results over two full numbers of A/F.  When we run a mix of the two, or E85, perhaps, it's really difficult to discuss what's the best A/F.  Lambda is probably the better term to use but, you have to learn something else, there.  I am too old to learn new tricks.

Anyway, I think spraying a lot of methanol takes us away from pure charge cooling to a blended it fuel which provides lower heat, but, can greatly increase the boost that can safely be applied without being in danger of suddenly falling off the the cliff into the detonation abyss.

Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: good2win22 on February 08 2019, 09:47:10 PM
The Razors alky Kit IMO has been the best bang for buck of all the bolts on I’ve added. Been a fantastic kit with one pump in 8yrs.
Jason, do you run straight meth? I’ve ALWAYS done so....advice given to me by Julio himself way back.
Straight M1 being sprayed in my limited.


Bison makes a plate with 6 “squirters” placed at the end of intake runner. Damn near sits right on the intake valve. Your alky supply line installs to the plate and is controlled with the alky control kit. Have one fella that I know that is in love with it but I haven’t seen any data with it.


Steve, todays fuel management systems take the mathematical magic of running e85, when using a flex fuel sensor, or any other supplemental power adder out of your hands. The addition of individual egt sensors or better yet, individual O2 sensors allows each cylinder to be tailored specifically for any discrepancies in distribution. I know of a car running e85 with meth injection but is still using gas afr tables due to the flex fuel sensor being installed. Simple as making a few adjustments based on the maximum and minimum methanol content. The computer does the rest.

Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Scoobum on February 08 2019, 10:56:15 PM
Way too much thinking going on. Take the car to the track and turn the alky off. Throw in Erics 112 race chip. Watch Scoobs vid on how to drain the tank faster than you can guzzle a beer. Toss a can of 112 VP in it. Drop the low gear 02's to around 780 and bump the low gear timing up. Turn the boost to 23 or higher...bring the revs up to 3000 grand on the footbrake...an d hang on for dear life. It ain't rocket science.
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Scoobum on February 08 2019, 11:31:23 PM
On a side note...if all you ever do is run 20 lbs of boost...you ain't gonna see any increase with a high dollar IC.
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: gusszgs on February 09 2019, 07:52:23 AM
Way too much thinking going on. Take the car to the track and turn the alky off. Throw in Erics 112 race chip. Watch Scoobs vid on how to drain the tank faster than you can guzzle a beer. Toss a can of 112 VP in it. Drop the low gear 02's to around 780 and bump the low gear timing up. Turn the boost to 23 or higher...bring the revs up to 3000 grand on the footbrake...an d hang on for dear life. It ain't rocket science.

Can do same and turn up to 28-29 with alky and save $140 in race fuel
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Grumpy on February 09 2019, 08:49:58 AM
After listening to some podcast I can see where guys have problems with distribution.
Run a RJC Power Plate. :chin:
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Scoobum on February 09 2019, 09:13:15 AM
Way too much thinking going on. Take the car to the track and turn the alky off. Throw in Erics 112 race chip. Watch Scoobs vid on how to drain the tank faster than you can guzzle a beer. Toss a can of 112 VP in it. Drop the low gear 02's to around 780 and bump the low gear timing up. Turn the boost to 23 or higher...bring the revs up to 3000 grand on the footbrake...an d hang on for dear life. It ain't rocket science.

Can do same and turn up to 28-29 with alky and save $140 in race fuel

E85 or race gas...you won't go back. That's why everyone's swapped to E85.
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: wmsonta on February 09 2019, 09:16:14 AM

 Watch Scoobs vid on how to drain the tank faster than you can guzzle a beer.
I looked and could not find it. It is something I do quite a lot. I currently use the in tank pump and apparently that is hard on them.
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Steve Wood on February 09 2019, 09:29:25 AM
After listening to some podcast I can see where guys have problems with distribution.
Run a RJC Power Plate. :chin:

Amen!  It continues to amaze me how people will continue to disbelieve scientific results and performance and rely upon someone's eyes to say it cannot work.  I often wonder how mankind has evolved to the current state.

On the other hand, I look around me and wonder how long it will be until civilization is in a total melt down so I guess things balance out in the end LOL
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Scoobum on February 09 2019, 09:30:12 AM
Not sure why it would be hard on it. The first second it sputters I shut it off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZG3VFlq2vM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZG3VFlq2vM)
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Scoobum on February 09 2019, 09:30:56 AM
After listening to some podcast I can see where guys have problems with distribution.
Run a RJC Power Plate. :chin:

Amen!  It continues to amaze me how people will continue to disbelieve scientific results and performance and rely upon someone's eyes to say it cannot work.  I often wonder how mankind has evolved to the current state.

x2
On the other hand, I look around me and wonder how long it will be until civilization is in a total melt down so I guess things balance out in the end LOL
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: daveismissing on February 09 2019, 11:04:28 AM
Way too much thinking going on. .....
Well, its frickin' freezin' outside, what else are we gonna do?
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Scoobum on February 09 2019, 11:11:24 AM
Way too much thinking going on. .....
Well, its frickin' freezin' outside, what else are we gonna do?

25F today...pretty much a spring day out there.
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: wmsonta on February 09 2019, 12:04:06 PM
Not sure why it would be hard on it. The first second it sputters I shut it off.

I do the same thing, however I change a lot of pumps. If you practice this procedure, my problem must be from these vehicles being stored w/o being run. Most have set for years. I changed 2 H-body pumps just getting this stuff started for sale.
Thanks for the link.
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Forzfed on February 09 2019, 12:40:42 PM
Watch Scoobs vid on how to drain the tank faster than you can guzzle a beer.
I don't know about that!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX3_knlUJp8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX3_knlUJp8)
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Top Speed on February 09 2019, 01:15:18 PM
I'm sprayin' straight M1 along with a Power Plate
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Grumpy on February 09 2019, 01:26:17 PM
you ain't gonna see any increase with a high dollar IC.
ran a new motor at the track for a friend.. Chinese stock location, PP and Alky with the TT chip on default. 9.95 @ 135+ in a 3740# tank. Made one run then boxed it up to go to Australia . Don't think the intercooler is doin much like ya said.
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Grumpy on February 09 2019, 01:32:03 PM
After listening to some podcast I can see where guys have problems with distribution.
Run a RJC Power Plate. :chin:

Amen!  It continues to amaze me how people will continue to disbelieve scientific results and performance and rely upon someone's eyes to say it cannot work.  I often wonder how mankind has evolved to the current state.
Steve we have tried all sorts of stuff with Melissa's car. Russ has a lot of compassion for these old cars. He is thinking day an night of "hey what if we did this an that" ?   Me I just sleep like a baby. My thinking days have got up an went  :cool; IN ALKY WE TRUST  :rock:
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Steve Wood on February 09 2019, 01:42:21 PM
After listening to some podcast I can see where guys have problems with distribution.
Run a RJC Power Plate. :chin:

Amen!  It continues to amaze me how people will continue to disbelieve scientific results and performance and rely upon someone's eyes to say it cannot work.  I often wonder how mankind has evolved to the current state.
Steve we have tried all sorts of stuff with Melissa's car. Russ has a lot of compassion for these old cars. He is thinking day an night of "hey what if we did this an that" ?   Me I just sleep like a baby. My thinking days have got up an went  :cool; IN ALKY WE TRUST  :rock:

Dan, I spend most of my time pondering how the world got so screwed up that I don't spend much time worrying about cars to work on.  My son keeps trying to pile them on me, tho LOL

I think the internet has created so many self promoting gurus that the car business is going down the drain as well.  There is no shortage of magic new parts that you just gotta buy for your 11 second car....
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Grumpy on February 09 2019, 01:56:12 PM
Dan, I spend most of my time pondering how the world got so screwed up that I don't spend much time worrying about cars to work on.  My son keeps trying to pile them on me, tho LOL
Hey I have a really hard time just watching the stupidity on TV !! I did get into a rut watching it. Then a while ago I got back to work and I am enjoying it. Try to work 3/4 hours an screw off the rest of the time but that changes as life throws shit at ya that ya can't do a damm thing about. Ummm kids don't want me to buy anything else  :013: Hey old people have needs  :rock:
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Steve Wood on February 09 2019, 02:11:00 PM
Dan, I spend most of my time pondering how the world got so screwed up that I don't spend much time worrying about cars to work on.  My son keeps trying to pile them on me, tho LOL
Hey I have a really hard time just watching the stupidity on TV !! I did get into a rut watching it. Then a while ago I got back to work and I am enjoying it. Try to work 3/4 hours an screw off the rest of the time but that changes as life throws shit at ya that ya can't do a damm thing about. Ummm kids don't want me to buy anything else  :013: Hey old people have needs  :rock:

Yep, we do.  I have needs and I need those needs right now!
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: reality on February 09 2019, 02:45:24 PM
My mind wants to do things but the body won't let me.


OLD AGE SUCKS.
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Scoobum on February 09 2019, 03:10:54 PM
Not sure why it would be hard on it. The first second it sputters I shut it off.

I do the same thing, however I change a lot of pumps. If you practice this procedure, my problem must be from these vehicles being stored w/o being run. Most have set for years. I changed 2 H-body pumps just getting this stuff started for sale.
Thanks for the link.

I'm amazed at the people contacting me telling me the car sputters at WOT...and then when I ask...they haven't changed the pump in 10-12 years. I got a guy at work who's the original owner...and hasn't changed the pump. I swap the pump in my car once a year. I look at it as cheap insurance against a set of head gaskets. You have to be all over the fuel system on these cars like shit on a blanket or you're gonna be swapping head gaskets.
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Scoobum on February 09 2019, 03:29:33 PM
I watched Grumpy closely from Day 1 and quickly found out that all that's required is a stock short block, a good set of heads, a good torque convertor, Erics chip, Powerlogger, someone that knows how to tune...and lots of practice at the track. I never let myself get suckered into vendors pushing their latest/greatest cool guy stuff. The vendors will gladly take your money promising their latest cool guy part will turn your TR into a hell ride.

I quit thinking about these cars about 5 years ago. Stock junk, Erics chip and PL rule...period.

I had my cable shut off about 7 years ago and quit reading newspapers about the same time. The world's fukd.





Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: ss/gn on February 10 2019, 05:50:24 PM



Run a RJC Power Plate. :chin:


 Russ has a lot of compassion for these old cars. He is thinking day an night of "hey what if we did this an that" ?   Me I just sleep like a baby. My thinking days have got up an went  :cool; IN ALKY WE TRUST  :rock:

Yup if you tell people what works they don't believe ya...........s tay tuned :icon_lol:

Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: earlbrown on February 11 2019, 03:52:49 AM


On the other hand, I look around me and wonder how long it will be until civilization is in a total melt down so I guess things balance out in the end LOL



The beloved AOC nitwit says her and the other millineal nitwits insist it's 12 years.
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Steve Wood on February 11 2019, 09:52:26 AM


On the other hand, I look around me and wonder how long it will be until civilization is in a total melt down so I guess things balance out in the end LOL



The beloved AOC nitwit says her and the other millineal nitwits insist it's 12 years.

Unless the polar reversal guys are right and that happens in the next couple of years and we lose 80% of the population to solar radiation and starvation.

I would almost feel sorry for AOC, but, then I realize she will soon be a millionaire flying around with Al Gore on his plane.
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: earlbrown on February 11 2019, 06:22:32 PM


I would almost feel sorry for AOC, but, then I realize she will soon be a millionaire flying around with Al Gore on his plane.

I have a feeling that's not going to happen.   She's going to get spoiled on that $3K+ a week in 'free money' until she's voted out of office for failing to produce all the free shit she promised.

   Since she's cute and can't hack it as a bartender/waitress, that pretty much means she's incapable of earning a living in the real world.  I really want to watch that.     Her life is ruined and she just doesn't know it yet.

....the bad part is the media will stop licking her ass as soon as she's out of office and I won't be able to enjoy the crash.  She'll be forgotten about just as fast as Christine Deblossy Ford  (or whatever her name is).
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Grumpy on February 12 2019, 12:42:33 PM
Uummm AOC got a 10 MILLION $$$$ book deal !!! I wonder if she is goin to give 9 mil back to the government to help the poor people and ones that don't want to work  :rock:
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Steve Wood on February 12 2019, 02:05:53 PM
she's gonna spend most of her time giving paid for speeches, appearing on tv shows, and demonstrating how to become rich just because she's "different".  Whether she keeps any of it long term, well that's a different matter.
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: earlbrown on February 12 2019, 03:56:47 PM
Yeah, her lack of money management skills are really going to hurt in the long run.

It's like they say....    The only thing worse than not having any money, is having money and then NOT having money.

I haven't heard about the $10M book deal.  I wonder how the pricing breaks down?  I'm assuming an agent and/or publisher gets a chunk, the the actual author gets a good chunk.


   After watching an interview with Newt a couple months ago, he pointed out something interesting that's seems to be a new thing.    We've not got all these low level players, that get handed :15 of fame, then they have a contest on who can be the most outlandish.   At that exact same time, they have a book come out.   Then, for a few weeks, they're on every non-fox network plugging the book until the fade out for the next one.

   This is the first time in history I've seen multiple democrats ''rising to the occasion''. Normally that's a republican thing as the democrats pick one person, follow him/her blindly, then left with nothing with they fizzle.   Now it all makes sense....   book deals.

Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: john robertson on February 12 2019, 05:52:37 PM
Yeah, AOC.  :rolleyes;  But of course, the dysfunction can't be attributed just to her or just the dimocrats. Clown world took some time to get here, but now we're right in the middle of it, and there is no knight in shining armor in the TOTALLY CORRUPT US gov that's going to fix anything. In fact they're working to make sure clown world stays in place.

Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: earlbrown on February 13 2019, 12:13:06 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh-Uemf8-RU#t=6 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh-Uemf8-RU#t=6)
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: john robertson on February 13 2019, 07:59:22 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh-Uemf8-RU#t=6 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh-Uemf8-RU#t=6)


Shit! If you think that video is funny, THIS is really funny! :icon_lol:  How about that newly elected African congresswoman who dared to suggest that (((AIPAC)))  pays off our illustrious lawmakers for influence. What a hoot that claim is. Here's an excerpt from The Foreign Policy Journal that blows that shit right out of the water:
 

AIPAC itself does not make political contributions and is in fact legally prohibited from doing so. Instead it uses its considerable resources ($3 million annual lobbying budget) to link current and aspiring members of Congress with pro-Israel donors. AIPAC’s projection of invincibility encourages political candidates and officeholders to accept pro-Israel contributions or risk seeing those funds go to their opponents. For example, former Congressman Paul Findley and former Senator Charles Percy lost their seats for failure to adhere to the AIPAC line.


The AIPAC-led pro-Israel lobby is probably the strongest, best organized and most effective lobby network in Washington DC. For the 2015-2016 election cycle, the pro-Israel network has already dispensed $4,255,136 in contributions. The largest single amount ($259,688) went to Senator Charles Schumer of New York.


Among interest groups that lobby on behalf of a foreign government, none ranks higher in contributions to members of Congress than the pro-Israel lobby.


To illustrate how such contributions influence legislative action, take two pro-Israel bills introduced on February 10, 2016, one in the House and one in the Senate, both with the title: “Combatting BDS Act of 2016.” H.R.4514, introduced by Illinois Congressman Bob Dold, has 22 cosponsors; of those 23 members, 12 receive 2016 pro-Israel lobby contributions averaging $23K. S. 2531, introduced by Senator Mark Kirk of Illinois, has 17 cosponsors; of the 18 cosponsors, 15 receive 2016 pro-Israel lobby contributions that average $60K.


Several of those members of Congress who cosponsored the pro-Israel bill, but without 2016 contributions, received substantial gift money during the six years period 2009-2015. A maplight.org table shows that among House bill sponsors Bob Dold (who introduced the bill) received $118K; Kathleen Rice $49K; Jackie Walorski $46K; Doug Lamborn $37K, Trent Franks 19K; and Steve Stivers $9K. Among Senate bill sponsors, Joe Manchin received $122K; Orin Hatch $92K; Ben Cardin $241K; and Dean Heller $71K. In sum, all of the Senate cosponsors and all but three of the House cosponsors are pro-Israel lobby recipients.
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: daveismissing on February 15 2019, 11:59:46 AM
I had never thought of it, but Jason's remark about the core being a big heat sink has a lot of merit when considering a single pass.
I suspect if you compare any intercooler to a typical radiator- the intercooler will appear to be overbuilt.
The heat sink value would give reason to keep building them that robust way.

Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: reality on February 15 2019, 05:17:45 PM
My thoughts.
 A radiator is built for about 15 pressure whereas with our cars the intercooler is built to withstand about 30 lbs pressure and Some  tractors are over 100 lbs pressure.
IT depends,
They are both heat exchangers built for a specific purpose.
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: earlbrown on February 15 2019, 05:27:34 PM
What's really interesting is I was doing some research last night on my NECKCAR.   I noticed that 'water pressure' is a thing, and the newer cars have water pressure gauges in them.

  Turns out, they're running stupid high pressures in the cooling system to raise the boiling point and minimize localized steaming on the combustion chamber and exhaust port.   I found a link that said NECKCAR changed a rule to force the cars to have less pressure so they overheat when they draft.

  Turns out they were running over 80PSI in the cooling system.   That's just hard to fathom.
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Steve Wood on February 15 2019, 06:11:20 PM
I suspect that 80 psi is in the water jacket.  High flow pump pushing water into the engine and a restrictor on the outlet side to hold the flow back and raise the internal pressure.

I don't think it's uncommon to see 4 times the pressure inside the block as compared to radiator pressure on some production engines.  Otherwise, the water would boil at internal hot spots and detonation would blow the engine.
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: earlbrown on February 15 2019, 07:38:45 PM
That's a good point. I didn't think about any pressure drop between the block outlet and the radiator.   PSI-G .vs PSI-T


It's probably still have to be pretty high in the radiator though. If there's 80psi in the block at almost 300F and you blow that down to 20 or so, I'd imagine that's cause some pretty violent flash boiling in the radiator.  Violent enough to destroy it, I would imagine.

When I got my car, it came with a new radiator. Now I want to see if I can find a part number or any kind of pressure rating data on it.



EDIT:  Now I'm thinking if a uber high pressure NECKCAR radiator is a thing, that might be the hot ticket for the guys that think you have a $1M radiator to keep a TR cool at idle when you're at a light making 10hp.


I can see it now.....     'super trick earlbrown high pressure radiator that can hold 80PSI'...    comes with a free 'cool guy' sticker..    lol
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Steve Wood on February 15 2019, 07:43:52 PM
Lol
Title: Re: Intercoolers
Post by: Steve Wood on February 15 2019, 07:53:03 PM
Earl, go here https://grapeaperacing.weebly.com/technical-articles.html

and download his pdf on cooling systems.  He has some pretty good info in pdf form.  His site is down at the moment.
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