IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: Scoobum on July 24 2016, 06:58:50 PM
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Im a stickler for instructions.. .so I thot I would post this. Not sure why this pic is sideways...sor ry.
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I just installed mine this weekend , along with a new tank . what is you fuel pressure when you start up your car ?
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I run my line off pressure a couple pounds higher than Erics recommendation . BLMs check in at 118.
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ok so what's your pressure when you car is running .
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Depending how accurate my in car gauge is...bout 40-41 lbs.
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Makes no sense.☺ So your FP is 45 psi with the hose off the regulator? Yet it is 41 when the engine is running? Do you mean it is 41 when you put the hose back on the regulator? And the engine is running in both cases?
I'm pretty sure that is what you mean, but I don't know if Tar Baby understands how fuel pressure is set.
Of course it's early in the morning and maybe I am just confused😄
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Makes no sense.☺ So your FP is 45 psi with the hose off the regulator? Yet it is 41 when the engine is running? Do you mean it is 41 when you put the hose back on the regulator? And the engine is running in both cases?
I'm pretty sure that is what you mean, but I don't know if Tar Baby understands how fuel pressure is set.
Of course it's early in the morning and maybe I am just confused😄
Get some more coffee. As long as you're at idle (and under vacum) pressure will go down when you attache the vac line.
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Alan, you have to read the thread. Brad said his hose off pressure was 45 (If you allow for the fact that Eric suggests 43 and Brad is a couple of psi higher). Then Tar Baby asked what Brad's fuel pressure was with the engine running? Most of us would assume that Brad's hose off number was with the engine running...At least I would think most of us would assume that but, I may well be wrong. ??????
I well understand that fp drops with vacuum. I am trying to find out if Tar Baby meant what is the fuel pressure was when the hose was put back on since Brad already answered that with the hose off....which is dependent upon how much vacuum the car is pulling at the time of measurement and if that was what Brad meant.
I will make it simple...Brad please ignore my comments :) As usual, I am just here to argue the unimportant-I will try not to interrupt anymore :D
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My bad. I should have been more specific. It was 41 with the hose on and the engine running. I gotta pull the car out tonite and install the ATR charcoal canister relocation kit. I'll post what the vacuum is...line on...41 PSI. I run Autometer gauges...so how accurate they are is up for speculation.
I recommend following Erics directions. Like Eric, I err on the rich side. Most can't sleep at nite if they're not at the magic 128. Steve can explain in detail how the ECM compensates. An engine running a tad rich at idle...will idle smoother. I've seen Norbs play with idle fuel enuf to know. Fairly certain I read a post awhile back from Cal Hartline saying the same thing.
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Brad, I understood what you were saying. I was trying to be nice so you could explain it as I did not know if Tar Baby understood that the hose on number was basically meaningless between cars due to the differences in vacuum which can vary between cars due to mechanical condition and cam shaft variation.
I should have kept my mouth shut. I am learning slowly not to get involved in these discussions :)
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Keep getting involved...cuz I'm always interested in how things work...and why. I've had people ask me why something works the way it does on these cars. More than once my answer has been...cuz it just does. I wish I could wrap my head around electrical stuff.
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What Steve?! Pbbt... :rofl:
I personally love when you correct these knuckleheads.
But seriously, let them babble, a great learning experience comes from correction imho. That's how I learned some of the stuff I know. I remember NickM jacked my dumbass up once about something I was positive about, set me straight and I'll never forget the correction.
Me thinks you thinks you got intelligence compitition, again, pbbt... :rofl:
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Here's the info...and I damn near choked to death on C16 fumes with this thing idling in the garage. I must be losing my mind...
RPM-900 via SM
15 inches of vaccuum
Fuel pressure-41 lbs line on
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I was asking because after I installed the pump my pressure shot up to 60 pounds .
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What size pump?
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255
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also I am running a hood mount auto meter Guage
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Were you able to get it down to 43-44 line off? I'll assume you're using Erics chip.
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Mine shot up to 60 after installing a 340 Walbro. Couldn't turn it down. Had a case of of the Saginaw fitting blues. Hadn't heard of one shooting up with a 255 but anything is possible. That first pic that brad posted showing where to cut the little vent window may be your solution or drilling out the Saginaw fitting to allow an increased volume of fuel to return to the tank. Have you tried just adjusting the regulator to lower the pressure?
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I cut the rubber . adjusted the regulator . yes new chip and injectors.
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I'll post my scan master numbers when I get home ..
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I wonder how much restriction the vapor return line in the sender would create?
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Tar Babys name is Dan...and he lives about an hour north of me. Dan...fill the guys in on your build. Last time I dropped by the car was stripped.
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well I took a 84 grand national apart and put it back together.. with an 87 intercooled engine . tried my hand at painting .. its a twenty footer ..lol but its altogether.. and now I'm chasing little problems like this fuel pressure issue ...
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Was the fuel pressure normal with the old pump?
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iac 79-81
tps .50
af 07
lb 46
batt 13.6
int 124
bl 118-128
clt 180-200
ats 109
rpm 850
o2's 700-718
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TPS should be 42 and the IAC should be 10-20. BLM should be steady at idle...not fluctuating. Steve has the writeup on his site to adjust the IAC and TPS.
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ok ill adjust them . but yes pressure was steady 43 pounds with old pump and injectors..
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sure sounds to me like you crossed the vapor return line with the fuel return line if you used a 255 pump
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so on the sender .. top view . bottom is feed . middle is return . top is vapor ..?
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here is a picture at the tank. If you crossed the two lines (vapor and return0 coming from the front, there can be a problem.
Also, if you used the old hose and it is collapsed inside or kinked, it will cause a problem. And then, there is the common problem-cheap fuel gauges that read strangely.
and, speaking of strange, your O2s do not reflect an abnormally high fuel pressure so that makes me wonder. In fact, they look low which I mark down to an improperly adjusted tps.
http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/tps_adjustment.html (http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/tps_adjustment.html)
http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/basics.htm (http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/basics.htm)
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OK so I hooked them up just like the picture .. I am going to set the tps . and thank you for the help Steve I really appreciate it
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All 3 diameters are different?
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seems like one is necked down more than the other one...but I don't have any pics without the hoses on
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OK so I hooked them up just like the picture .. I am going to set the tps . and thank you for the help Steve I really appreciate it
No problem...I am not sure you have a fp problem at this time because the O2s should be extremely high and the blms should be very low...so get the tps right and lets look again. Be sure the car is at operating temperature so the O2 is reading correctly.
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Jim sent me this pic a while back. I'm assuming it is the stock hanger and it appears they are different sizes.
(https://s25.postimg.org/od7ugipa3/V_09_A5.jpg)
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All 3 diameters are different?
Yes all 3 are different
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ok so after adjusting tps and iac
02s 722-730 at idle
af 07
lb 44-47
batt 13.5
int 128
bl 118
clt 196
ats 94-97
r 900
tps 40
iac 12-21
fuel pressure is at 52 psi with car running line off .
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Fuel pressure was normal with the old pump. Are you absolutely sure you didn't reverse the two lines on top the tank as Steve suggested? I'd drop the tank and check for that...and also check the return line. It could be collapsed...or maybe the steel line it attaches to kinked. With the tank down...and the return hose unhooked I'd be tempted to hit the return line from the engine bay with compressed air to check for a blockage. Check your answering machine.
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Steve, I talked to Tar Baby on the phone. The fuel presssure gauge is the same as the one with the old pump...so I have a hard time believing the fuel pressure gauge went on the fritz between fuel pump changes. Dan's dropping the tank and checking the lines...to check if they're crossed, kinked or collapsed. Says it smells rich...but he's running a cat. Told him to take it off and punch the honeycomb out.
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seems like one is necked down more than the other one...but I don't have any pics without the hoses on
There's a few pictures here showing the different diameters and placement relative to the car's lines.
http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/buick-v6-turbo-tech/54018-how-install-intank-fuel-pump.html (http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/buick-v6-turbo-tech/54018-how-install-intank-fuel-pump.html)
I really need to make an updated version that shows how to set the pump depth and get an extra 1.8 gallons over the sock instead of under it and a simple hanger mod that makes the fuel pump accurate and quick reading.
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is that a factory maf, or a translator? It's reading a bit high for a factory unit
That might be caused by the rpm being so high. What is causing that?
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I have reman maff .
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To get that high of idle speed...should be about 750 on the stock chip and about 800, I think, on most aftermarket chips...I am wondering if you have an air leak? The iac's are good so the idle should be normal. Throttle blade should be closed for all practical purposes at idle at normal iac settings. This would be about a thread and a half showing on the adjustment side of the screw.
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so I found my pressure problem . I had the clamp on the return line kinking the hose . :013:. so that's fixed .. now. checking for air leaks .
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Brad, I understood what you were saying. I was trying to be nice so you could explain it as I did not know if Tar Baby understood that the hose on number was basically meaningless between cars due to the differences in vacuum which can vary between cars due to mechanical condition and cam shaft variation.
I should have kept my mouth shut. I am learning slowly not to get involved in these discussions :)
When you and others don't share knowledge and maybe the rare misunderstandi ng, all this forum BS becomes pointless. I've been wrenching for 47 years and am the first to admit I don't know everything. I hate it but I still go to classes. Never stop, Steve.
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In Steve's defense, it gets REALLY tiring when you post something factual then get hammered (or ignored for the 'desired info') for it. After a few hundred times, it just takes too much effort to put fingers on keyboards.
Based on my observations, there are far too many people need to watch the first 44 seconds of this video over and over and over and over.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYPapE-3FRw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYPapE-3FRw)
Granted that data is pretty old, it's in B&W not color :)
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You should have some things you can copy n paste in a notes file. Way easier than typing out all kinds of stuff over and over. I have several for the 2004r with links and such to send to people who ask.
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It does not matter. If you look at tuning, scant tools, whatever-Eric has suggestions, Bob had written up stuff, I have a section on my site that repeats what they said and adds some more information with regard to using a scan tool. I have a section on Tuning that I have dumbed down as much as I can so it is basically A, B, C.... but I get emails all the time that start off with I have read ever word on your site and it has really helped, but...then they ask a question that was answered in detail on the site so I know that either they cannot read, do not want to read, or are just flat lying.
We are in a society today where the younger members expect instant gratification and believe they somehow deserve customized respect as if they are only one of three or four people on the planet.
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I think we have a problem in our school system that many come out and can't read, cant comprehend what they read, or are just too lazy to read and pretty much want to pay someone else to do it for them. I know I have a comprehension problem so I tend to read things three or more times going over each word to get full meaning of the adjectives and adverbs. It makes a lot of difference what it printed and how people interpret it.
I think they are reading it without hands on experience. Them when they go to the hands on part, the either cant remember, are too lazy to go back and reread it or, flat didn't read it in the first place. I think it is great all the info at the vortex site and the turbo tweak site . If I had time to take it all in I would. I can't believe all the info the power logger logs on just one run or street blast.
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I don't fully blame schools. There are too many hands-off parents these days that lead to repeted cycles. Basically huge handouts have got 3 generations of dumbasses (with a 30 year span between ages) that honestly don't know any better. And, most importantly, haven't been shown/taught to want to know better.
About a year ago I spent quite a few months doing real life and not getting on any of the Buick boards. I've noticed a BIG difference at TB.com after I started dropping by again. I still don't check in near as much as I used to, but the newbies have just gotten damn near unbearable.
Back just a couple of years ago, you'd get a newb show up and want to know the best heads, gearsz, cams, 'big' turbo, etc to go faster....
It was always fun to say, 'no, you need a wire for the fuel pump, and valve springs, and a pump, and a modern chip, and a new timing chain''.... and when running right will be the fastest shit you've ever driven.
After that I used to try and guess which of the three groups they'd join. The ''I need to do head gaskets'' group, the ''I'm selling this POS'' group. or the ''holy fuck they car is fun, I can't keep tires on the back'' group.
Oddly enough the third group is very very small.
and now it seems to be much worse.
My theory is those of us that's been owners for a long time and still post have removed those cars from the market and a lot of them are garage cars not DD's now. The cars that are floating around for the newbs to get are molested, been sitting a while, POS's, or low mileage timebombs with no preventive maintience. It only take a few seconds with original wastegate why hoses to grenade an entire engine. The leaning curve is just too steep a lot of the time.
Working on these cars is truely require an odd angle of attack. If you know everything because you've been a hotrodder with carbs iron V8's since forever, you're screwed. If you're background is Honda's and you're an 'expert' on all things turbo... you're screwed.
It really amazed me at all the oddball nuances these cars have (and how easy it is to overcome most all of them if you know about them). When it gets down to brass tacks, it's an antiquated plain Jane shitbox iron V6 with a pretty bland computer that just got a turbo and intercooler added. Even after detuning them for the average Joe and a warranty, they were still pretty hot.
It's truly a parts box car with cobbled together pieces of crap.... with the ability to double the output and still be reliable.
...unless, of course, your normal vernacular includes things like ''push boost''... :D
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The hot rod article points hard at the "checkbook" hotrodder. You don't need an aftermarket computer to go tens in the quarter. Is it easier? I guess if you are writing the checks. Just way more expensive than it has to be. These people selling stuff will always have a new trick of the day,week, or month. That is how they make money. You can't sell magazines without advertisers and in the broad scope mags are dead anyway.
And speaking of the I cant keep tires on it, I cant think of one over at Tb.com
Lots of sellers and broken parts owners though.
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It does not matter. If you look at tuning, scant tools, whatever-Eric has suggestions, Bob had written up stuff, I have a section on my site that repeats what they said and adds some more information with regard to using a scan tool. I have a section on Tuning that I have dumbed down as much as I can so it is basically A, B, C.... but I get emails all the time that start off with I have read ever word on your site and it has really helped, but...then they ask a question that was answered in detail on the site so I know that either they cannot read, do not want to read, or are just flat lying.
We are in a society today where the younger members expect instant gratification and believe they somehow deserve customized respect as if they are only one of three or four people on the planet.
So true.........i t's become a generation of self entitlement.
What really pisses me off is some of the ignoramus's will suck you for all the info they can and then, no thank you or nothing! In other words, I have my info now, so you can go piss up a rope.
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I'm just dumb. I gave up trying to tune my cah and left the boost low.
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What really pisses me off is some of the ignoramus's will suck you for all the info they can and then, no thank you or nothing! In other words, I have my info now, so you can go piss up a rope.
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Yeah, I hate people like that.
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It was always fun to say, 'no, you need a wire for the fuel pump, and valve springs, and a pump, and a modern chip, and a new timing chain''.... and when running right will be the fastest shit you've ever driven.
After that I used to try and guess which of the three groups they'd join. The ''I need to do head gaskets'' group, the ''I'm selling this POS'' group. or the ''holy fuck they car is fun, I can't keep tires on the back'' group.
Oddly enough the third group is very very small.
and now it seems to be much worse.
So what ever happened to that goober who blew his motor doing donuts for some fatties and wanted to race you?
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My buddy!!! I never got a thank you from him when I sent him a link for a harbor freight engine crane that DIDN'T cost $1000 (cause you know, that's what engine cranes cost therefore you can't pull a hurt engine. You have to post over and over on the internets until you get the answer you want)
Pretty sure he's in the ''Fuck this car, i'm selling this blown up POS'' group.
That car really got hosed. Of all the people that won't stop beating on a car and take it off the road, it's the ones with no oil pressure that take the cake.
I should really find that thread again. I loved how I kept hitting nerves stereotyping and it turned out I was describing him dead nuts.
it seems like the ''bonus points if your tuna is Asian with blond tips dyed in his hair''... and it turns out his was Asian with blonde tips! lol