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Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: daveismissing on April 03 2018, 02:34:57 PM

Title: Fuel hangers
Post by: daveismissing on April 03 2018, 02:34:57 PM
Other than missing a harness, anything wrong here?

https://www.highflowfuel.com/i-32555655-quantum-fuel-pumphangerw-sending-unit-for-buick-regal-grand-national-3-8l-1984-1987-255lph-340lph-400-450lph.html (https://www.highflowfuel.com/i-32555655-quantum-fuel-pumphangerw-sending-unit-for-buick-regal-grand-national-3-8l-1984-1987-255lph-340lph-400-450lph.html)

Anyone remember how much Jack's SS hangers were when he sold them?
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: TexasT on April 03 2018, 03:14:49 PM
I don't know but for $30 shipped mine is on order. I have a discontinued harness from racetronix to try with it. Maybe my gas gauge will work again.
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: Scoobum on April 03 2018, 04:14:12 PM
Other than missing a harness, anything wrong here?

https://www.highflowfuel.com/i-32555655-quantum-fuel-pumphangerw-sending-unit-for-buick-regal-grand-national-3-8l-1984-1987-255lph-340lph-400-450lph.html (https://www.highflowfuel.com/i-32555655-quantum-fuel-pumphangerw-sending-unit-for-buick-regal-grand-national-3-8l-1984-1987-255lph-340lph-400-450lph.html)

Anyone remember how much Jack's SS hangers were when he sold them?

I got the plug-n-play hanger and pump from Jack when he first released it. Think I paid 179.
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: earlbrown on April 03 2018, 04:25:59 PM
I wonder if it's set up for an analog or digital fuel gauge.
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: TexasT on April 03 2018, 05:10:29 PM
I will put a meter on it when it gets here. They sent an email saying I ordered .
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: daveismissing on April 04 2018, 10:25:53 AM
Anyone use a MAHLE/CLEVITE fuel filter?
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: TexasT on April 04 2018, 02:46:38 PM
Never even seen one. I usually add a wix brand one into the cart when I do a rockauto order.
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: Scoobum on April 04 2018, 05:57:41 PM
Anyone use a MAHLE/CLEVITE fuel filter?

Scoob's goin' left and I'm goin' right...no more questions!...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYAjr1DBe9g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYAjr1DBe9g)





















Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: Scoobum on April 04 2018, 06:07:42 PM
Anyone use a MAHLE/CLEVITE fuel filter?

I throw the cheapass 3 dollar one on from Parts Source once a year. Red and black box...don't remember the name.
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: daveismissing on April 04 2018, 10:45:04 PM
Today I learned: So unless I am mistaken there are standard electrical nylon 3/8-knockout cable glands being sold as special fuel tolerant bulkhead fittings for about 5x the price...
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: earlbrown on April 05 2018, 01:18:31 PM
Today I learned: So unless I am mistaken there are standard electrical nylon 3/8-knockout cable glands being sold as special fuel tolerant bulkhead fittings for about 5x the price...

Looks that way to me too. I thought it was odd that it was a fitting just to run a solid wire through it and the 'seal' was just a compression area on the insulation.

   When I did my hangar mods I drilled a hole for a grommet slathered in Yamabond for an 8AWG wire that runs straight to the fuel pump.    Not ideal since fuel can wick up the wire a little, but I don't care.   I didn't feel like driving 20 miles to the machine shop to fire up the lathe and make an actual bulkhead fitting out of a bolt and some UHMW.

It works fine though.

On the ground side, I soldered a ring terminal to the downtube for the pump ground. Then soldered a ring on the very top for the frame ground.
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: daveismissing on April 05 2018, 08:22:46 PM
I need some very compliant cable at work so I started buying RC "noodle wire" from Tower Hobby. Not cheap but amazing 12Ga -a zillion strands with silicone rubber insulation. It might be a good fit here.
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: TexasT on April 06 2018, 09:26:43 PM
(https://s25.postimg.org/qjejau22j/wp_ss_20180406_0001.png) (https://postimg.org/image/qjejau22j/)
Fuel hanger arrived today.
Put a meter on it. Looks like it goes from 20ohms when empty to 120 ohms when full.
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: daveismissing on April 07 2018, 08:35:26 AM
Steve 2009: "I think it will sit on full a long time"

Spina:
Analog sender: 90 ohms FULL, zero ohms (grounded): EMPTY
Digital sender: 120 ohms FULL, zero ohms (grounded): EMPTY

The resistor wire senders are very inefficient and the accuracy doesn't even exist.

So, if you place a jumper between ground and the center pin of the weatherpack at your gas tank, you should read EMPTY.

Use a 47 ohm resistor in place of that jumper and you should read half a tank (analog).
Use a 56 ohm resistor in place of it for the digital car, and you'll read somewhere around 8 gallons.

You can use an analog sender for the digital car, but when full, the digital gauge will show around 14 gallons instead of "F". As you consume fuel, the digital display becomes more accurate.

You should make it a practice to keep no LESS than half a tank of fuel at any given time - lower than half, the fuel pump runs hot and wears out prematurely. It's the gasoline that keeps the fuel pump cool, and in top operating condition. (corrected)

https://turbobuick.com/threads/fuel-gauge-out-of-whack.431177/ (https://turbobuick.com/threads/fuel-gauge-out-of-whack.431177/)
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: daveismissing on April 07 2018, 09:40:38 AM
So 380 ohms in parallel with the sender would fix most of the range.
 I don't like the 20 ohms at the other end. I will have to play when I get mine.
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: daveismissing on April 07 2018, 07:30:19 PM
Dug out my spare instrument cluster, and experimented really do need about 5 ohms to hit E.
Wish I had that hanger here.

Found the veterans conclusive thread:

http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/buick-v6-turbo-tech/54018-how-install-intank-fuel-pump.html (http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/buick-v6-turbo-tech/54018-how-install-intank-fuel-pump.html)
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: Forzfed on April 07 2018, 07:36:59 PM
(https://s25.postimg.org/qjejau22j/wp_ss_20180406_0001.png) (https://postimg.org/image/qjejau22j/)
Fuel hanger arrived today.
Put a meter on it. Looks like it goes from 20ohms when empty to 120 ohms when full.

A span of 100 ohms compared to 90 ohms.  That might not be too bad.
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: daveismissing on April 07 2018, 08:27:12 PM
The top of the range would be fine, the top 1/4 of the tank would be above full. If its 20 ohms at the bottom then it never displays below 1/8- more or less
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: earlbrown on April 08 2018, 04:24:30 PM
Don't use 'full swing' when checking the range on the hangar.  Odds are it's greater than the actual height of the tank (both top and bottom).

Also, keep in mind, the float is about 1" around so it hits the roof before the fuel level gets to the top of the tank, so it's going to top out while you've still got a couple gallons left to go.   That's the reason cars always seem to stay on full for so long then drop like a rock.

Edit:  I just remembered my precision depth transfer tool(AKA Home Depot paint stick) was still on the hood of my TVR...    My original tank was 8-3/8" deep to the baffle and my brand new Spectra tank is 7-7/8" deep.

Years ago, when I measured that while replacing my fuel pump, I ended up modifying the hanger base to let the pump sit lower. As best as I remember that extra 1/2" netted me something like 1.85 more gallons I had access to.

Also, since it appears that attachments work now, do this to the hangar and the fuel gauge will be so responsive that you can actually see fuel slosh on the dash.

OK, they still don't work.  Basically solder a wire from the hanger tube ground to the float arm.  Do it in a decent sized loop so that the float can't break the wire over time from actuating.

Odds are it'll change the impendance reading of the output. If you look at the design of the gauge circuit, it's utter shit and I have no idea how it even works in the first place.   The ground for the reostat comes from the area the float arm passes though the metal holes on the thin casing that's mearly crimped lightly in four spots.

By giving the float arm and actual ground, the curcuit can actually do it's job.
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: phil_long on April 17 2018, 11:38:35 AM
This thread is incredible seeing that I plan to redo the sending unit after I get this new dash installed. Great info gents as usual
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: TexasT on April 19 2018, 02:34:03 PM
So, i'm kinda poking around looking for the electrical bulkhead fitting for the sending unit/pump hanger. Is racetronix the only place for this?

http://www.racetronix.biz/customkititems.asp?kc=BCWA-FL98HD&eq= (http://www.racetronix.biz/customkititems.asp?kc=BCWA-FL98HD&eq=)

http://www.racetronix.biz/items.asp?Cc=CONN_SET_BH&Tp=&iTpStatus=1 (http://www.racetronix.biz/items.asp?Cc=CONN_SET_BH&Tp=&iTpStatus=1)

I thought about getting just the yellow piece but for $50+shipping it is all rigged up.
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: daveismissing on April 19 2018, 09:04:01 PM
Something like Mcmaster 7807K54    might be one way to go
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: daveismissing on April 19 2018, 09:13:15 PM
YOU might want to ask full throttle since they are a racetronix dealer
Steve is Avila a dealer?
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: daveismissing on April 19 2018, 09:35:18 PM
(https://www.extremepsi.com/store/images/D/stm_fuel_sending_unit_bulkhead_fitting_6an_installed3.jpg)
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: Steve Wood on April 20 2018, 03:45:44 PM
YOU might want to ask full throttle since they are a racetronix dealer
Steve is Avila a dealer?

don't think so
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: daveismissing on April 21 2018, 08:06:20 PM
I forgot about this fun Nick/Jack exchange:
https://turbobuick.com/threads/which-fuel-hanger.390860/

Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: TexasT on April 21 2018, 08:16:39 PM
A pissing contest, I think they need to meet at the gs nats and line em up.
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: daveismissing on April 21 2018, 09:00:03 PM
The only GN I've seen Jack with is Rickett's (TType White)
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: reality on April 21 2018, 09:05:20 PM
And the other Mike- St Eves. Was running 10's way back with 37 lb injectors; with Jack [racetronics] tuning,
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: daveismissing on April 21 2018, 10:23:08 PM
Is he still around Ron?
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: reality on April 21 2018, 10:45:14 PM
YES
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: daveismissing on May 05 2018, 12:21:57 PM
Picked up my hanger yesterday:

On the float I get 90 ohms down to nothing  so that looks right.

Need to ream out the nipple/flares a bit, pressure side look good, no reduction,
and maybe cut off the reduction in the return line because- Deatchwerks?

Has a 10mm hole for electrics, anyone know what stock was?

I can now ponder if I will make some bracket for the bottom of the pump.

Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: TexasT on May 05 2018, 06:37:05 PM
I wouldn't bother with a bottom of pump thing. Just hose clamp the pump to the down Hang part and wire it up was the way I am headed next time I drop the tank. Not sure on the electric hole but if I drop the tank or come across the old one I have ill make a measure and try to remember to post about it .
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: earlbrown on May 05 2018, 10:36:13 PM
Use a paint stick to measure the exact depth on the tank and set the pump depth accordingly.

A pair of stainless hose clamps work just fine.  Just make sure to clock the screw part of the clamp so the pump can drop it.
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: daveismissing on May 09 2018, 01:22:36 PM
The connector that is under the hood for emptying the fuel tank- that is a suitable connection to trigger a hot wire relay?
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: Steve Wood on May 09 2018, 03:43:17 PM
Yes
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: daveismissing on May 09 2018, 06:26:02 PM
Thanks  :sw:
Is there some logic I'm missing in placing the relay somewhere else -where it is hard to service or exposed?
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: Steve Wood on May 09 2018, 07:30:12 PM
I suspect that jack can make one up, but, I have always suspected that he makes most things up.

I have built quite a few and I always put it under the hood in line with the other relays.  I use 10 ga wire and concentrate on getting a good ground at the back.
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: daveismissing on May 10 2018, 09:21:16 AM
You are on fire Steve! :)
Pretty sure I won't spend 30-40 bucks on a new fuel filter bracket either.
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: Top Speed on May 10 2018, 03:00:55 PM
My hotwire relay is also under the hood like Steve described.
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: daveismissing on October 01 2018, 01:03:40 PM
This was creative:
(https://preview.redd.it/5npo5hp6gkp11.jpg?width=1024&s=36c137e6196c22718dbd968cddce20499c106089)
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: daveismissing on October 07 2018, 10:31:48 AM
So here is what I did with the Quantum hangar:
(http://dtekk.com/automotive/fuel/hangar4.jpg)
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: daveismissing on October 07 2018, 10:41:31 AM
I didn't feel like drilling the hole out for a grommet style bulkhead ( given some of the failures I've seen that may be a mistake but I think I addressed them)
Hot side wiring is doubled up and ground is doubled up thru the hangar.
Jack adds a ground by shoving a faston tab under the hangar plate- me no like.I took SS straps and resized them  to create attachment points inside and out.
I really wanted that second clamp on the pump so dremeled a slot. for it

(http://dtekk.com/automotive/fuel/hangar2.jpg)
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: daveismissing on October 07 2018, 10:42:36 AM
(http://dtekk.com/automotive/fuel/hangar1.jpg)
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: daveismissing on October 07 2018, 10:43:24 AM
(http://dtekk.com/automotive/fuel/hangar3.jpg)
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: daveismissing on October 07 2018, 10:49:16 AM
And Earl made me buy a $30 dollar hose to add an inch of depth.
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: TexasT on October 07 2018, 12:16:02 PM
Lots of guys would give thirty for an extra inch.
Which reminds me I got that stainless Hanger and it is in the trunk of my car. Looks like a nice piece. Next time I drop the tank ill try it out
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: good2win22 on October 07 2018, 04:26:00 PM
Lots of guys would give thirty for an extra inch.
Which reminds me I got that stainless Hanger and it is in the trunk of my car. Looks like a nice piece. Next time I drop the tank ill try it out
Thoroughly check out the wiring before dropping that in the tank. I've had a failure as well as others
Title: Re: Fuel hangers
Post by: TexasT on October 07 2018, 09:04:59 PM
This one didn't come with wiring. I received a package from racetronix with a nifty through bulkhead keyed plug so I have that to use next time I drop the tank. Last time I used a used through bulkhead and it has worked so far with the dw200 pump.
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