IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense

General => IHADAV8 Playground => Topic started by: Grumpy on March 28 2018, 08:56:11 AM

Title: RJC Power plates
Post by: Grumpy on March 28 2018, 08:56:11 AM
Use em or don't ?? Yes we do. Curious about why some don't like em.  :cool;
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Steve Wood on March 28 2018, 11:25:02 AM
I always suggest them and have always used them.  Bamford's egt test indicated that they did what they were supposed to and results backed the claims up.

They are capable of flowing more air than comes thru the throttlebody so the eyeball claims that they restrict flow and cost power does not bear out.  They do redistribute airflow within the intake.
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Scoobum on March 28 2018, 04:30:36 PM
No. Champion stock appearing intake...and Joe spent a gazillion hours reworking a stock doghouse for me. He has a flow bench, I'll leave it at that. For a stock setup. I'd recommend the power plate. There's enuf data out there to support that it works.
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Grumpy on March 28 2018, 05:42:14 PM
I am talking modified cars. We had one on a dyno with the plate and without. EGTs in each cyl/ Fast. Tuned with the plate no knock then took it off. Had to do some tuning again. Matched the power but had some knock and a lot of tuning that didn't get rid of the knock. I know lots of guys said the PP didn't work on a modified car.
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Scoobum on March 28 2018, 06:00:27 PM
I am talking modified cars. Putting out decent HP.

No idea. You'd have to throw a car like yours on a dyno and do a before and after test.


Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: reality on March 28 2018, 06:21:14 PM
THEY DID.  Dan, care to share the results?
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: 1KWIKSIX on March 28 2018, 06:28:17 PM
Hmmm......this might stir the pot a little, but......Anyon e who has used a Hemco Plenum care to share their thoughts?
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Grumpy on March 28 2018, 07:06:35 PM
I am talking modified cars. Putting out decent HP.

No idea. You'd have to throw a car like yours on a dyno and do a before and after test.




Added on the previous post while others were typing  :icon_redface:
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Grumpy on March 28 2018, 07:07:52 PM
THEY DID.  Dan, care to share the results?

"They " did on Facebook.. Do you remember where it was ??  :icon_lol:
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: daveismissing on March 28 2018, 08:41:59 PM
I guess I now know the limits of my DW300's :)
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: reality on March 28 2018, 10:46:33 PM
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1827222383976810&set=gm.1872497629449952&type=3&theater&ifg=1
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: reality on March 28 2018, 10:48:52 PM
Don't know why that does that but if you click it should be full size
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Steve Wood on March 28 2018, 11:24:27 PM
Hmmm......this might stir the pot a little, but......Anyon e who has used a Hemco Plenum care to share their thoughts?


Couple of years ago, I gave my hemco to TTIPE because he wanted to a Hemco to modify ala Red Armstrong/Richard Clark because it was ever so much better.  Have not heard any more.  As I don't pay much attention to the Buick "in" crowd, I don't know it it was better from advertising purposes or was actually better when put to the test independently.
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Pyro6 on March 29 2018, 12:39:14 AM
Like any other stuff tried and discussed, what do you want out of your car?

Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Grumpy on March 29 2018, 08:47:23 AM
Don't know why that does that but if you click it should be full size

Won't let me on.. What is the name of the group ?
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Steve Wood on March 29 2018, 08:48:58 AM
Like any other stuff tried and discussed, what do you want out of your car?

Grumpy used to want Melissa out of his car, but, he gave up and its her car now.  I think when a Brick hits the nines, it automatically belongs to the driver?
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Grumpy on March 29 2018, 08:55:51 AM
I guess I now know the limits of my DW300's :)

Yes there is. Had us scratching our heads!! The new Aeromotive 340 ...Well I'd only use it for a mostly stock car.
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Grumpy on March 29 2018, 09:02:30 AM
Like any other stuff tried and discussed, what do you want out of your car?

Grumpy used to want Melissa out of his car, but, he gave up and its her car now.  I think when a Brick hits the nines, it automatically belongs to the driver?

Well she had a WE4 that was goin to need some work.. Sooo Dad sold (pieced it out) it an got this from a former customer of mine. Ya she can drive. This car junk does get carried away. One thing leads to another to another.  Oh... Don't tell anyone but I bought a Fast system for the Mazda  :rofl: :cheers:
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Steve Wood on March 29 2018, 09:36:38 AM
LOL....Okay, I won't mention it to anyone!
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: reality on March 29 2018, 10:06:57 AM
Don't know why that does that but if you click it should be full size

Won't let me on.. What is the name of the group ?


Turbobuick.com members on facebook


It is a secret group memers only of T B
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: reality on March 29 2018, 10:16:08 AM
Highlights are 77's hp and 77;s torque
 
5.93 at 111 in 1/8th spinning on pump and alchy


no mention of any boostane
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Forzfed on March 29 2018, 02:14:03 PM
Use em or don't ?? Yes we do. Curious about why some don't like em.  :cool;

I use it because you use it!  Seems alright so far.  I know when I showed Keith Wilson it from Wilson Manifolds he said it was a restriction.  But his fix is to flow bench the throttle body with the manifold and start cutting up the manifold, messaging it and re-welding it.  That comes out to lots of money so I will stick with the price of the power plate!
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Scoobum on March 29 2018, 04:22:00 PM
Don't know why that does that but if you click it should be full size

Won't let me on.. What is the name of the group ?


Turbobuick.com members on facebook


It is a secret group memers only of T B

TO clique is the same.
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Steve Wood on March 29 2018, 07:59:08 PM
Use em or don't ?? Yes we do. Curious about why some don't like em.  :cool;

I use it because you use it!  Seems alright so far.  I know when I showed Keith Wilson it from Wilson Manifolds he said it was a restriction.  But his fix is to flow bench the throttle body with the manifold and start cutting up the manifold, messaging it and re-welding it.  That comes out to lots of money so I will stick with the price of the power plate!

I bet, if you took a picture of one, put it into cad and scaled it, the area of the cut outs are larger in total than the area of the throttlebody mouth.  Now, there is no doubt that each opening most likely has a little turbulence around it, and we know that it restricts flow to some cylinders and adds flows to others.

There may be some limit at which point it stops workings, but, we know that it evens flow which evens egts, and that makes tuning easier as one can tune to the sum of all cylinders rather than trying to adjust each one to bring them all to the same level.

We also know that dyno numbers reflect this.  No doubt there will always be some that look at it and pre-judge the results...ther e are others that will sneer because they did not invent it and are not making any money from it.  After all, it is cheap.  Bamford was well into the nines and outrunning everyone else and he ran it.  I don't know how far Dan is into the nines these days, but he has done a lot of testing tuning and is still using it.  good enuf for me :)
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Grumpy on March 30 2018, 08:36:59 AM
End of the season last year she ran 9.5's an high 6.0's in the 1/8th. 2# launches.  High 1.3s 60'. Last week it was a zero # launch 1.38 an a 2# 1.33 @ 5.93 spinning. We are working on 60's.  Put an anti roll bar in replacing our old tried an true ATR sway bar.
  Dyno's give ya a heads up on how it's working BUT the track is a different animal all together. :chin:

Most of her racing is 1/8th  :rolleyes; at our track. It's a street and a outlaw class. She runs both classes. Oh she is still footbreaking a 200R4  :rock:
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Steve Wood on March 30 2018, 08:52:00 AM
Not sure what amazes me the most.  Running with the ATR bar or footbraking a 2004R....I guess the 2004R cause we all know a 200 won't stay together in the tens...

Russ must not read Facebook
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Scoobum on March 30 2018, 08:58:15 AM
I should ask my friend/transmission builder if he knows this Russ character...
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Grumpy on March 30 2018, 09:23:21 AM
Russ picks his customers carefully. I taught him well. :player: You do things HIS way. He has got a few lessons doin work to get someone by "for now" :rolleyes; . It's tuff out there in the Buick world. :atbeer:
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: daveismissing on March 30 2018, 09:47:56 AM

Russ must not read Facebook

Priceless

Dan, did they drive the car to Cal's?
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Grumpy on March 30 2018, 11:30:02 AM
Nope.... 1500 miles away. But it will be used now as the snow has melted.I can't wait to get to the drags up here. Think there is still snow in NH😂
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Top Speed on March 30 2018, 01:16:53 PM
I have the power plate and PTE plenum running turbotweak chip and alkycontrol, ta61 turbo, champion irons, 24 psi,no knock ever.  Simple setup that just works.
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: ss/gn on March 31 2018, 08:08:00 PM
Many myths and shoulda ,woulda, coulda's  were put to bed lately! Some people will just never listen. I am a believer. This Russ character could tune a wheel barrow. :rofl: The only thing I cant believe is some grumpy old guy bought a FAST system........ ..........what is the world coming to?  :icon_lol:
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Grumpy on March 31 2018, 08:25:56 PM
This Russ character could tune a wheel barrow. :rofl: The only thing I cant believe is some grumpy old guy bought a FAST system........ ..........what  is the world coming to?  :icon_lol:

Russ and Melissa are get it done people.  :cool; No is not in their vocabulary. They learn things quick. Me ... I'd say Ill think about it tomorrow :icon_redface: After watching them at Cals I actually started to understand some of the gibberish :rofl: Then Holly said "oh we have a few systems in stock" The information and control control CONTROL is the name of the game. How could I not say give me one of them !  Plus it's another job for Russ !!  :rock: The Power Plate testing was very interesting to watch.
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: ULYCYC on April 01 2018, 06:58:58 AM
Lately I've seen and know some who have moved onto the new Holley EFI Dominator system.   It's in the same price range when all is done and years ahead in technology.  Good to see Buick still has choices available.
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/dominator_efi/dominator_ecu/parts/554-114 (https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/dominator_efi/dominator_ecu/parts/554-114)
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Steve Wood on April 01 2018, 09:10:41 AM
Or the MS3 which is also working well. The management system market has blown up
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Grumpy on April 01 2018, 10:26:07 AM
I believe Fast is goin to update also. Hell look at all the cars now that get tuned !!! Before it was Buicks an Mustangs :cool;
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Scoobum on April 01 2018, 11:00:09 AM
The problem with aftermarket fuel management systems is this. If you don't understand them and don't know how to tune...then everytime you go to the track...then you have to bring someone that does.
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Grumpy on April 01 2018, 05:37:09 PM
The problem with aftermarket fuel management systems is this. If you don't understand them and don't know how to tune...then everytime you go to the track...then you have to bring someone that does.

And that is why I say simple people like me should stick to chips !! I have Russ at my beckon call. ( I can say that because he isn't on the net much  :rofl: ). Years ago I just did 11 sec cars.Hell even today most should be happy with one BUT they get on the net an look at all these new combo's an decide they want to run 9's. Couldn't be bothered with quicker one's that were not very dependable and didn't run for crap because they couldn't tune their own stuff. 80% of these people should have chips. :player:
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: daveismissing on April 01 2018, 06:50:37 PM
Anyone price out an MS3 with the complete buick ignition setup?
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Steve Wood on April 01 2018, 08:23:19 PM
you can ask william
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: good2win22 on April 02 2018, 12:15:50 AM
Anyone price out an MS3 with the complete buick ignition setup?
I believe the MS3 plug and play for turbo buick had an initial price tag of $1450ish. I'm waiting for it to hit the market and be proven. No one can tell us what capabilities the plug and play will have. Will it be able to do all the stuff that it's big brother the MS3 can? Obviously, inputs are in question as folks like to log fuel pressure and other data. Personally, I'd like to have a wideband on each exhaust tube to really dial in the tune.  Drive pressure would be nice too as well as a coolant pressure sensor.  Tuner studio is the software it uses and its proven, hell, it's even free. 


I've been studying these after market fuel management systems for over a year.  Talked with a lot of folks, read a lot of stuff and even spent two days at a class for tuning aftermarket fuel management systems. The new Holley system is very similiar to the Motek software. MS3 version 2.2 has some glitches in the hardware. MS3 version 1.0 is solid with many options. Buick folks tend to stick with FAST. Not sure why but the FAST stuff is proven just not capable of many inputs or outputs. The newer stuff with CAN networks are catching on big time with their capability of communicating with the newer transmissions.


I spoke with William a few weeks back about the plug and play MS3. Downloaded the MS3 manual, all 700+ pages.


Got to hand it to Eric for piggy backing off the stock ECU.  The SD2 has more functionality than the sportsman from FAST, in my opinion. Big advantage to the sportsman though on the processors speed of fuel corrections and the adaptive learning makes drivability really nice. Sitting in the car for hours on end tuning for idle, startup, tip in, acceleration enrichment, IAC speed makes the advantage to the SD2.


That's about all I have to say about that for now
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Scoobum on April 02 2018, 03:07:51 PM
Just fired up the GN. 37F with Erics 5.7 race chip and 112 in the tank. Barely touched the key and it fired immediately. Put a cup of coffee on the hood and you won't get a ripple out of it...it idles that smooth with 80's. XFI and its cohorts make me giggle.
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: ss/gn on April 03 2018, 07:05:29 AM
I am not smart enough to play with that FAST stuff  :icon_lol:.............. ........but I am learning.  :cheers:
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Steve Wood on April 03 2018, 10:28:00 AM
Start with the Short Bus option and move up when you are ready
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: nocooler on April 03 2018, 02:36:26 PM
I don’t know what the ms3 pnp has for I/o but it does have a can port. A couple can cables a can hub and a microsquirt would get you more than enough additional I/O. http://www.msextra.com/product-range/expansion/microsquirt-io-box/ (http://www.msextra.com/product-range/expansion/microsquirt-io-box/)

All these new systems are extremely capable, but is the person behind the keyboard?

People would get their panties in a bunch if someone made a pnp cable for a microsquirt!
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: motorhead on April 03 2018, 11:06:02 PM
Yeah, I drank the Power Plate Koolaid.

In retrospect it might not have been necessary in a pressurized plenum where the valve and valve events would have dictated flow.  In the boosted LS world there are lots of common plenum intakes, even the Mid-Rise on our TBSS is a dual quad dual plane, and there are no known cylinder distribution issues.

That said, I never changed a head gasket in my Buick.
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: ss/gn on May 02 2018, 06:40:19 AM
Watching for info from TB nats this week. I think you will see some fast runs.  :icon_lol: My $$$ is on the lady driven hot rod, from the north east. :cheers:
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: daveismissing on May 02 2018, 06:36:51 PM
I thought William and others were working on the "appliance user's" version.
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Grumpy on May 02 2018, 09:01:40 PM
Watching for info from TB nats this week. I think you will see some fast runs.  :icon_lol: My $$$ is on the lady driven hot rod, from the north east. :cheers:

time will tell.. :cool; They are already there. Ill be there in the morning. Doing our best is all we can do. Car has to do the talking  :O
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: earlbrown on May 03 2018, 02:29:15 PM
I just had an interesting epiphany about the power plate....

Since Jason noticed a fairly specific trend with how the ports flow relative to each other, it seems that you could go without the plate by using a ''mismatched'' set of injectors.   Sorta like putting staggerd tires on a NECKCAR.

If you take the weakest flowing hole (odds are #1) and use that as a baseline starting with the  worst flowing injector.   If the next port flows 3% more, use a 3% higher flowing injector, etc...    That would allow for the mixture to be more consistent like the idea for the PP, while still maintaining a decent plenum volume for the runners to pull from.

I'm trying to remember the flow discrepancies when Jason published the numbers. It seems like it was 13% was the largest difference.   The trick would be to have an injector bench and some injectors with piss poor QC.
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Forzfed on May 03 2018, 03:59:37 PM
Earl, that is what we all discussed years ago.  Back cylinders get the most flow, so put the bigger injectors back there.  Have you had a lack of sex this spring?
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: daveismissing on May 03 2018, 09:13:13 PM
Or buy a J & S Safeguard?
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: earlbrown on May 03 2018, 09:49:33 PM
Earl, that is what we all discussed years ago.  Back cylinders get the most flow, so put the bigger injectors back there.  Have you had a lack of sex this spring?


There's never enough.

I get that you put the highest flowing injectors in the back.  But the difference in flow front to back isn't the same amount as the flow differences between ports.
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Grumpy on May 03 2018, 10:59:56 PM
I just had an interesting epiphany about the power plate....

Since Jason noticed a fairly specific trend with how the ports flow relative to each other, it seems that you could go without the plate by using a ''mismatched'' set of injectors.   Sorta like putting staggerd tires on a NECKCAR.

If you take the weakest flowing hole (odds are #1) and use that as a baseline starting with the  worst flowing injector.   If the next port flows 3% more, use a 3% higher flowing injector, etc...    That would allow for the mixture to be more consistent like the idea for the PP, while still maintaining a decent plenum volume for the runners to pull from.

I'm trying to remember the flow discrepancies when Jason published the numbers. It seems like it was 13% was the largest difference.   The trick would be to have an injector bench and some injectors with piss poor QC.


Be easier to spend the $$$ for the plate. Our inj are flowed an go in a certain cly. We have egt readings in every cyl.
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Steve Wood on May 05 2018, 08:51:30 PM
tomorrow, we should hear why PP's don't work...Melissa's is probably covering up a miniature nawz bottle...:D
Title: Re: RJC Power plates
Post by: Grumpy on May 09 2018, 11:40:00 AM
well she ran a 116 mph in the eighth... At that weight she's def making some power. Fixing the brakes an goin for a new 1/4 mile time  :player: Then time to start some new things for BG.  :chin:
SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal