IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: Just a Six? on October 06 2017, 04:20:08 PM
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I wanted to start this thread so I can keep adding to my progress as I go along.
In the last 3-4? seasons I've been chasing (with not much effort) the reasons behind my gassy smelling exhaust. The engine has maybe 40-50 track runs & not too many street miles since the last rebuild about 7-8? years ago. TT 6.1 2009 chip with a/f tracking, burned for 26 lbs but my waste gate rod set at 22 lbs, 60's, Gen 2 translator with 12% fuel out across the board,
(I can do low-med-high load rpm points later) fuel pressure turned down 1 lb, old 67 Q trim
4" in 3" out, power logger, wide band, scan master, fuel pressure gauge, Meth etc.
I purchased a Bob Bailey Gen 2 chip with the Gen 2 originally years ago & used it a month then back to the TT but tried it today & black smoke with bad stumble at idle?? Back to the TT
One more try tomorrow & if no good I'll send it back for Bob to look at.
1 TT chip I did a 10 min city cruise BLM part throttle 122, coast 128, stop light 137
I'll get the PL hooked up for a good run Sat am early but for now
2 compression check all cylinders from 146-150
3 all plugs are White & gap stayed at a tight 30 thous.
4 PCV is nice & clean
5 small oil filter to Turbo is clean & that's where I stopped today. PL in the AM
Maybe my imagination but seemed a bit less gassy smelling at idle?
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Hi Dave,
I've also got the Gen II Translator and wide band with PL.
Hmmm, that's strange. I ended up going to Bob Baileys' Extender Extreme chip cause I found the Turbo Tweak chip extremely rich and car billowed out black gobs of carbon on my garage floor while warming up and idling.
So I changed over to Bob Baileys chip and problem solved.
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Do not go by your nose.....prett y much useless :)
Go by the O2 readings and/or your wideband.
Also remember that idle is not indicative of part or wide open throttle conditions. Plugs say you are good from what I can understand.
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Steve I'll get some logs & the plugs looked good so I'm confused with this but when we get together driving to the car show or a cruise whoever is behind me on the hiway always tells me the exhaust really smells like gas & some to the point of rolling up their windows.
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Is the cat converter on the car in good condition?
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Funny you mention that since I Never ran a Cat until the last engine install & I never had this issue back then. It's a used 3" high flow & it has 2-3 large holes poked in the screen or honeycomb with a big screw driver or similar. This is also when I added the 60's & Gen 2 but I bet the Cat is suspect? Maybe time to yank it off & see what I have going on?
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Yeah
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Steve finally after 7 years of smelling like gas when parking the car in the underground it's fixed! There was a lot of Carbon buildup from the turbo to the Cat & some past it but not as bad.
I ASSume that it caused back pressure which caused the Carbon but not sure I fully understand why it causes it to smell like gas? It also feels smoother & a bit louder. The wife is going to be Happy!
I'll still get a new Log to look at if it's nice Sunday or Holiday Monday.
Man I went to BPG & raced like that & still pulled off an 11.20 in the noon day sun so this should help that cause if I ever get out again. My left foot is numb & my back & neck hurt like heck but it was worth the pain & suffering! Thank God for the band clamp I used on the connection as it really made doing the job at home possible & without too much frustration.
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From the numb feet up, you and I must have related backs.
I have noticed that they smell differently with good cats, bad cats, and no cats. Maybe it has something to do with the modern gas? They should smell richer than modern cars when we run open loop idles and richer than normal due to the cams, etc. If the wife is happy, to heck with the people following you! :D
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I went for a drive up the 401 & 400 hiways & did two 4-5 sec blasts from about 50 mph. I guess the wide band needs a Free Air since I took out the sensor from DP when I pulled it but SM read 760-770's & no fuel haze out the pipes & no gas smell when revved up a couple times when I parked it. My TPS needs adjustment or I wasn't quite full throttle as the highest reading was roughly 3.55-3.60 It's quite possible my foot wasn't all the way down since it's a hiway & I get nervous doing blasts because the car hits up near 100 mph pretty quick. Steve I'm really happy that you suggested the Cat as I needed the push to get back working under the car & the Cat had crossed my mind long ago but I just wasn't sure the work was worth the effort if I was wrong so I kept looking at the chip & Gen 2 settings. I had a lot more faith the Cat was the problem after you suggested it. That's why I jumped on it the next morning after reading your post so a big Thanks for the Motivation! Cheers! :cheers:
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:cheers:
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Dave...remove the Gen 2. It doesn't work worth a shit...hence why it was discontinued.
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Brad I would but then I need some kind of Translator for the 3" MAF
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All you need is a regular Translator...a nd whatever MAF you want. LT1. LS1...or Z06...tho the Z06 requires a 3 to 5 pin connector. We've removed several Gen 2's and the cars have run mint with the TT chip.
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Confused.
Plenty of guys run no cat and yet don't have a raw fuel smell.
Seems to me the fix is masking an overly rich condition.
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Let's do a comparison. Setting up Gen 2 vs setting up Translator.
Gen 2........http://turbotweak.com/gen2translator.pdf (http://turbotweak.com/gen2translator.pdf)
Translator.... ..http://turbotweak.com/translatorinstructions.pdf (http://turbotweak.com/translatorinstructions.pdf)
Any questions? Class dismissed.
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I have seen so many experienced experts give contradictory instructions as to how to set up a gen 2 that I swore I would never try to help anyone with one.
I also struggle to wonder why people, today, insist on trying to adjust fueling with the Translator and the fuel pressure regulator rather than programming the simple to program TT chips. The original Translator is a wonderful and extremely useful product. It was designed before the day of the modern programmable chip which gives one the ability to finely tweak the fueling. The Gen2 was basically obsolete before it hit the market altho it gives us the ability to leap tall buildings in a single bound. It was complicated to install and complicated to use once installed. Basically, it is a DOS product whereas today's chips are Windows friendly.
All the smart guys loved it, but, they seldom could agree on how to use it.
I get emails frequently telling me that added 8% to the fueling with the translator after I told them to add 3% with the chip....they feel comfortable turning a dial as compared to reading the instructions on how to adjust the chip.
I am thinking of buying Brad a Megasquirt for Christmas. That might be fun to learn. Even more funner to watch him continue to outrun the high dollar, high tech slugs!
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The Cat I had on all these years was damaged inside which I assume caused some kind of turbulence or back pressure & caused the raw fuel smell. Now that it's hollowed out the smell is gone that was the only change I made. I'm just happy it worked!
Brad I have the 3" MAF & now since the Gen 2 started losing some settings with Power Off maybe I'll send it back to Bob Bailey. I also have a chip from him I picked up at the same time (2009-2010) & used about a month. Tried it on Friday & the car just stumbles & won't run properly so maybe it will go back as well with the Gen 2 & he can give me a little break on a new Translator or one of his new products. I'm not up to date on what's out there but I want something pretty Basic. The only setting I really use is +- fuel which Eric's 6.1 chip already does.
Steve I saw your post after I added mine & your right the Gen 2 was a PITA to wire up
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Dave...go over to my weekend racing thread...and check how fast I retuned the car in morning trials. In regards to the Translator...l eave the WOT switch settings alone...and adjust via Erics chip...and leave the fuel pressure at per Erics instructions. Set the base knob and the dip switches in the Translator...a nd you're good to go.
Here's a vid on how to adjust Erics chip via the SM....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P72WVIq7KZM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P72WVIq7KZM)
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Dave, the original Maf T translator is all that is needed. Set it to the defaults. Take the 6.1 chip. Set the fueling for first gear to 11.0, leave the fueling for third gear at the default 10.8. Set the boost to 25 psi and go have fun. That is all there is to it!
The ABC's of tuning brought to you by Brad and Steve
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Thanks guys, the Translator sounds like the way to go especially since I'm just not into fine tuning all the different parameters & especially since I don't see many track days anymore. I've been using Eric's chips for years so I know how to adjust them.
I'm also going to install the smaller "P" trim housing I got from Joe in Quebec years ago instead of the "Q" trim that's been on the 67 turbo since I got it from Billy Anderson years ago.
This progress may just light a fire back under me. I just haven't had much interest the last 3-4 years but my energy levels are much higher now both mentally & physically.
Thanks again for leading me in the right direction! [size=78%] [/size] :cheers: [/size][size=78%] [/size]
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The Translator has a BLM idle setting. I leave mine alone. Idle BLM's on mine are 118. Rich...nah. Only thing you smell from my exhaust is a hint of race gas. Don't lay awake at nite worrying your idle BLM's aren't bang on 128.
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It has to have a bit of gas smell or it's not a Hotrod! :rock:
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This year I got a 3.5 LS-1 MAF from Earl. I just changed the BASE setting to 2 (10% leaner@idle) and the rich idle smell cleared up a lot.
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Dave, make sure to have a Denso 02 sensor in the engine that's in good shape. Erics 6.1 chip uses the NB for normal driving. The WB takes over once you're up in boost.
Eric himself shuts the mid boost correction off. Mid boost is between 140-220 grams per second. WOT correction is above 220 grams per second.
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Brad I've got a Denso in there now & picked up a hand full years back at the BPG events.
I'll swap in a new one when I change the turbo housing.
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David used to change his Denso ever 6 months, you know, each time he pulled the engine for a re-gasket/rebuild.
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Dave that seems like a long time ago & I have no desire to do it again! At least not just for something to do when I'm bored. Unless the engine is toasted it's staying right where it is!
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David used to change his Denso ever 6 months, you know, each time he pulled the engine for a re-gasket/rebuild.
I may have Dave beat. Here's a list of engine pulls in my car.
1. Original engine had the cam going in it in when I purchased it. Beat on it till the one cylinder dropped to 90 pounds.
2. Had a backup engine from one of the locals. It lasted till it cracked a cylinder and dumped the rad into the pan.
3. Had that engine sleeved over the winter. Halfway through the next season it cracked another cylinder...but this time right up to the deck. Scrapped the block and kept the rotating assembly. Went back to the original engine that I had freshened up on backup.
4. Got stupid and didn't use high quality reinforced vacuum hose from the port to the actuator. The cheap stuff collapsed...pu ck didn't open...kaboom!
5. Race gas rotted the puck assembly. It somehow got jammed up on a run while it broke apart...puck got stuck...kaboom!