IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: phil_long on July 16 2012, 03:53:11 PM
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So, this has been on my mind. My SM shows KR a lot more often than i would like(which is preferred 0) and it does it at the most odd of times. Like, under acceleration, is it really possible to get 3.4 kr when you're not even in boost? I think im going to get some teflon tape as suggested and just use the FP gauge I just bought to check the FP while driving. My hotwire should be here on Wed. and this isn't all the time either. sometimes i can get on it really good and nothing pops up until it shifts. any thoughts?
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Teflon tape is for shower heads and toilet bowl feeds, don't use it on the car. Use Loctite sealant with teflon or similar liquid automotive sealant
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.....or that!! Thanks
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sounds like false detonation, Phil...knock sensor is hearing some other noise and calling it detonation
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guess i should keep searching. I fixed the "knocking" issue yesterday. I did find that the screw and bolt that goes to the back of the control module was missing. But I personally cant hear anything rattling(of course since im driving it I wouldn't hear it anyway). Is there anyway around that though? As far as the "false" knock? Thanks
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you need to start breaking that car down in quadrants, and examining everything you see.
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make sure the drivers side motor mount is not cracked...put the car in drive, e brake firmly on, pop the hood, get out and slowly move the throttle lever to increase the rpm to about 1200 rpm or so...stop before the wheels try to turn...watch the engine and see if the engine suddenly jumps up on the ds.
make sure the tranny lines are not rattling
Or, calibrate your ears to 6000 hz and screw your head into the knock sensor hole
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you need to start breaking that car down in quadrants, and examining everything you see.
in the process of that now
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make sure the drivers side motor mount is not cracked...put the car in drive, e brake firmly on, pop the hood, get out and slowly move the throttle lever to increase the rpm to about 1200 rpm or so...stop before the wheels try to turn...watch the engine and see if the engine suddenly jumps up on the ds.
make sure the tranny lines are not rattling
Or, calibrate your ears to 6000 hz and screw your head into the knock sensor hole
Sounds easy enough.
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so does living with women
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Easiest way to test for false knock is: octane. Put lots in and stand on it... if the KR is still present you are on the hunt. If not, you need to do a tune-up of either your air, fuel or spark... or all three in some cases.
I just had to pull 7 degrees of timing out of the tune in our TBSS due to KR at MBT (maximum brake torque) on 91 octane w/11:1 CR. It is only running 14-15* timing at peak torque now; it then progressively phases back to 21-22* at peak horsepower. I also turned off burst knock too... which is a calculated timing retard event based on load, but, that is a story for another day.
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so does living with women
this is true, although i seem to still have all my hair...but im only a year and a half in so i guess that has no merit.
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Easiest way to test for false knock is: octane. Put lots in and stand on it... if the KR is still present you are on the hunt. If not, you need to do a tune-up of either your air, fuel or spark... or all three in some cases.
I just had to pull 7 degrees of timing out of the tune in our TBSS due to KR at MBT (maximum brake torque) on 91 octane w/11:1 CR. It is only running 14-15* timing at peak torque now; it then progressively phases back to 21-22* at peak horsepower. I also turned off burst knock too... which is a calculated timing retard event based on load, but, that is a story for another day.
I need to do a tune up anyway. Couldn't hurt. Keep ya guys posted on my progress though.
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What is a tune up on a Regal other than new plugs?
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What is a tune up on a Regal other than new plugs?
Air filter. My Denali was setting a code under heavy acceleration (basically flooring it) & the air filter guage read 40% dirty. I took it out for a minute & code went away.
Still need to grab a new one for the BPG haul.
I know it was a trick question but this may apply? :player:
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What is a tune up on a Regal other than new plugs?
I was referring to plugs, plug wires, and cleaning my airfilter. Potentially cleaning the intercooler as well. Stock turbo leaking oil
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If your turbo is also leaking internal and in the intake track that will give you a knock problem also.
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Fuel filter, oil filter, cleaning the MAF, plugs, wires, washing out the intercooler with gas (or some more expensive solvent), etc.
If your turbo is also leaking internal and in the intake track that will give you a knock problem also.
You should see the 500+mL of oil my catch can has caught going past my PCV (granted not in boost) that didn't make its way into the engine. :O
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None of this sounds good. Lol. Def have to do something about it for sure
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Ok guys, I got the FP gauge hooked up, and its not leaking. I havent installed the hotwire yet. I just drove the car and monitored the FP while driving....... .......is it possible to for the FP to drop when u start accelerating? Once i got out of vacuum the FP DROPPED a bit and held. I know its suppose to increase one to one with boost, and if it doesnt, then the pump is probably shot. I've never imagined the FP dropping though...just thought I'd share. Im gonna install the hotwire and see if it changes
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If the vacuum increases, then the fuel pressure drops....so you need to watch the vacuum to see if this was the case.
If the vacuum decreases, or goes into boost, then the pressure should rise. If the fuel pump is weak and it cannot keep up with the one per one as it should, pressure will drop
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Make sure the static (line off) fuel pressure is set to 43lbs or whatever your chip instructions says before ordering any parts.
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Hey Ed, it's just the stock chip in there now. Maybe I should lower the FP b/c right now its set kind of high(42 lbs line on). This was done due to the BLM's a while ago. But I'll readjust it and let you guys kno what happens.
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If the vacuum increases, then the fuel pressure drops....so you need to watch the vacuum to see if this was the case.
If the vacuum decreases, or goes into boost, then the pressure should rise. If the fuel pump is weak and it cannot keep up with the one per one as it should, pressure will drop
When i tap the gas the FP jump a bit, and as vacuum decrease and it starts to go into boost, the FP slowly decreased. I immediately knew it wasn't right. I'm going to hook up this hotwire kit this week though and see if it makes a diff
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Stock chip? Why?
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You need to set it with the line off. Pull off line and set to 42lbs, then try to test again.
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The timing in the stock chip is too high for today's gas. You need something newer. Heck I might even have a Thrasher chip for stock injectors that you could have for a song if cost is the issue.
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I've got a few chips laying around. None for stock injectors though.
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leave the fuel pressure where it is...you got it set to where the numbers look good
If the pressure is dropping under boost, then you probably have a fuel supply problem and I don't think the hot wire is going to fix that problem. Make sure the fuel filter is new (I think you changed that recently) and install a hot wire...if still low, then that pump that the guy put in would appear to be going out.
Did you check the pressure under boost with the gauge I loaned you?
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The timing in the stock chip is too high for today's gas. You need something newer. Heck I might even have a Thrasher chip for stock injectors that you could have for a song if cost is the issue.
Cost isn't an issue. But I don't plan to get a chip until i get the injectors, and turbotweak is still short on the 42.5's as of now. I already wasted money on getting the stock injectors cleaned, no need in spending the money on getting a chip burned specifically for them.You need to set it with the line off. Pull off line and set to 42lbs, then try to test again.
Will do sir.Stock chip? Why?
Its a stock car. Lol. Not trying get smart or nothing
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leave the fuel pressure where it is...you got it set to where the numbers look good
If the pressure is dropping under boost, then you probably have a fuel supply problem and I don't think the hot wire is going to fix that problem. Make sure the fuel filter is new (I think you changed that recently) and install a hot wire...if still low, then that pump that the guy put in would appear to be going out.
Did you check the pressure under boost with the gauge I loaned you?
Yes, the fuel filter has been changed. I've NEVER checked the fuel pump, so maybe i can drop the tank and see what's in there? I havent had a fuel pump installed on the car since I've had it. Only thing that's been changed is the fuel tank within itself. I didn't use your gauge to check while driving b/c the line was a little too short.
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I dont think a stock fuel pump would last this long, so I have to assume it's aftermarket. then again, it could still be in there. :icon_confused: we'll see though
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http://www.turbotweakstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1008%2DWalbro (http://www.turbotweakstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1008%2DWalbro)
would this be an ideal pump to buy when i get one?
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That's a fine choice.
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http://www.racetronix.biz/customkititems.asp?kc=RFPK-006&eq= (http://www.racetronix.biz/customkititems.asp?kc=RFPK-006&eq=)
Includes a very nice hotwire harness.
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http://www.racetronix.biz/customkititems.asp?kc=RFPK-006&eq= (http://www.racetronix.biz/customkititems.asp?kc=RFPK-006&eq=)
Includes a very nice hotwire harness.
I already have the hotwire kit! Thanks Supersix
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Im purchasing the TT chip and 42lb injectors on Monday. Should this purchase help me with the issues I'm having? I lowered the FP to about 42 lbs static, changed translator setting to lean out at WOT about 10%, and when I floor it for about 3-5 seconds my O2's show something like 850 and the KR about 6.7 last I checked. I don't beat on the car. I only floor it when tuning like I've been trying to do for the last three weeks. My question is, is the stock chip's timing that high? Shouldn't I be able to drive the car regularly now that I've done the basic upgrades? The car pulls great at part throttle, but I can def tell when the KR kicks in that the car slows up. Thanks
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When one gets that rich, one often sees timing retard in my experience. It may not be related to the timing, or it may be. It may be rich detonation, or a phenomenon that looks like detonation but is caused by too much fuel in the chamber which will not burn cleanly.
The TT chip will not cure mechanical or electrical problems with the car. On a car that is running properly, it will allow you to run more boost due to its lower timing and thus make more power. Overall drivability will increase as well. It will allow you to shape the fueling curve if required to keep the wide open throttle below 800 where it belongs.
the new injectors should spray more evenly and make for a better run.
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Thanks. As mentioned before, I've definitely seen a huge diff in the car after installing a healthy fuel pump and hotwire kit. My problems arent what they were before. But for the base FP to be set where it should be set at, it worries me that the car is still not running up to par in stock form. I honestly don't know where else to go from this point. My goal was to be able to go WOT all day long in stock form before any mods or upgrades. I feel like I'm coming up short. Thanks again for the response. I'll keep searching until I find something else to fix.
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been trying to get you to put in a decent chip and injectors for a long time
That will give you know quantities that can be adjusted
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been trying to get you to put in a decent chip and injectors for a long time
That will give you know quantities that can be adjusted
Yes you have sir. I can def admit that. OK, so after the install, then I can come back and give you guys some numbers. I went to gnttype.org for instructions on how to remove the injectors. Seems intimidating. :icon_confused:
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dead simple...parti cularly since they have been out recently
What intimidated you?
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BTW, contrary to the instructions, I always leave the regulator bolted up to the rail so that it comes off when the rail comes off....just disconnect the fuel return line from the bottom of the regulator
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a data point: 93 octane, stock chip and injectors- I don't see any retard.
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dead simple...parti cularly since they have been out recently
What intimidated you?
I dont remember exactly Steve. I think at the time i was reading it, i was rushed and wasn't paying attention. Just read it again and you're right. I would prefer to leave the FP regulator on there so thats good news. Thanks.
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a data point: 93 octane, stock chip and injectors- I don't see any retard.
Thats what I was hoping to see Dave. I do have a question though. How big of a role do the spark plugs really play? I've had the plugs on there for about 4-5 years, and if my memory serves me correctly, my dad didnt put the stock plugs on there. I believe he put on some rapid fires. Thanks for the responses
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I suppose I need to add that is at stock boost levels with a stock turbo.
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Which is what's installed!! Lol. I have to check that DS motor mount Steve mentioned.
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Just ordered the injectors/chip. Let you guys know after I get it installed whenever it gets here.
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if it is not already fastened to the rail, tie wrap the injector harness to the rail so the connectors are by the correct injector so that when you pull an injector out of the rail, you can stick the new one right back in and reconnect the harness. Main thing to remember is to put some vaseline or grease on the o rings top and bottom so they don't get nicked during install....and be sure you don't pinch the the injector harness on the coil bracket or egr...keep it away from the egr so it cannot get burned and short out
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That makes sense. Got it. And sense the EGR is no longer used, what should I do with that once the chip is installed? Leave it be? And I need to know EXACTLY what plugs to get and what to gap them at? thanks
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Leave it be....
AC CR43TS or R43TS
Autolite 24
NGK UR5
For up to 20psi of boost...gap all at a tight 0.035"
Ignore everyone that says 028, 030, 032....they are living on folk lore
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If running above 20 psi...then change the 43 to 42 on the AC
go to 23 on the Autolites,
keep the ur5s on the NGK....still all at .035"
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Cool. I hope to be in business soon. Never understood the theory of the spark plugs and diff in them(gapping, etc) but i'm not too worried. Especially now that I know what to get. Thanks
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Soooo, is the motor suppose to not move at all? Or just not a lot?
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If you mean move around while it is idling....very little if the mounts are in good condition and the engine is running properly
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get the rapid fires out of the engine
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getting those out this morning. And i was referring to when I have the E-brake pressed firmly and revving up to 1200 rpms in drive. thanks. I drove the car last night, gave it another WOT run for about 2 sec. O2's 898 with 6.2 KR. Got to my destination. turned the car off. car wouldnt start. Lol. My car always turn over a lot when I start it up. Between how rich it's running and me increasing the richness at idle to get my BLM's down, in addition to the old rapid fires thats on there, I think the plugs are fouled out. Couldnt do ANY tests last night because b/c i wasnt home. I plan on going through the NO START diagnosis later on today. I got the plugs already though. Keep you posted.
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increasing the richness at idle through the translator is what I meant. i was reading an article that explained how to foul out spark plugs(not that I WANT to do it). article was reading that basically you can foul spark plugs due too running to rich or running too lean or worn valve seals and/or piston rings leaking oil. Either way I'm checking into it. And again, I will keep you guys posted. Im going to Memphis tonight so it probably wont be until sunday that I get a chance to REALLY diagnose the issue.
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set the translator back to the default for idle...
that probably makes it rich all the way from idle up....
don't start it, or try to start it until you have done that....
Hopefully, you will have the new injectors and chips and we can try to get it nailed down better.
When you revved it up to 1200 with the brakes on, did the engine shift or jump up a bit? Sign of a bad engine mount on the drivers side
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Yessir it did. It lifted up on the driver side.
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I actually intended to post a video of it so you all could see it and determine if it was moving too much. i forgot tho. :(
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sounds like it is time for a new motor mount on that side...not surprising at all...probably has been ready for 15 years if it is original
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actually, set the translator back to default on both settings
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My brother just got the spark plugs out of the car. Not only are they fouled out, but they where gapped at .045!! :O
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And I talked him through setting the translator back to the basic settings. My chip and injectors shipped today. should be here by Monday. keep ya posted on everything. And is the motor mount something a shop would have to do?
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sounds like it is time for a new motor mount on that side...not surprising at all...probably has been ready for 15 years if it is original
are there motor mounts on both sides? why just the driver side if so?
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because the motor mount on the drivers side is under tension and the the one on the passenger side is under compression so it does not get pulled apart...not to mention it is harder to get to!
Mounts are cheap, tho...so it will not hurt to do them both
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Ok
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I wish I could be home right now. Plugs got changed out and the car wont start. Brother said there's white smoke coming out the air filter. This is a pain. :icon_eyes:
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Im starting to wonder about the coil pack and/or module. I bought the module from NOS4GN approximately 3 years ago. I'll check things out Sunday. :x
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And im not convinced that a dirty air filter could cause this(because mine is dirty)
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unlikely that is your problem, imo, but..measure the resistance across the terminals on each coil....should be 11-13,000 ohms
Do you have spark? Do you have fuel pressure? You probably don't have a noid light so you cannot tell if you have injector pulse.
If you have spark, pull the hose off the throttlebody and spray some carb cleaner pass the butterfly. then crank it. Does it try to run?
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unlikely that is your problem, imo, but..measure the resistance across the terminals on each coil....should be 11-13,000 ohms
Do you have spark? Do you have fuel pressure? You probably don't have a noid light so you cannot tell if you have injector pulse.
If you have spark, pull the hose off the throttlebody and spray some carb cleaner pass the butterfly. then crank it. Does it try to run?
A really dirty air filter can make one run like crap
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unlikely that is your problem, imo, but..measure the resistance across the terminals on each coil....should be 11-13,000 ohms
Do you have spark? Do you have fuel pressure? You probably don't have a noid light so you cannot tell if you have injector pulse.
If you have spark, pull the hose off the throttlebody and spray some carb cleaner pass the butterfly. then crank it. Does it try to run?
Luckily, i do have a noid light!! Sitting in my glove compartment. As mentioned earlier, I was going to go through the no start tree on your website. Never used the noid light, nor have I ever removed the connector to the injectors. This will be a first. Any chance of unplugging the MAF translator to see if its an issue? I run the resistance across the coil pack. Thanks
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And I DO have FP because when I was on the phone with my bro, i had him place the FP gauge on the windshield to make sure. Shot up from zero to 40. As far as checking spark(i believe that's what im lacking) do i undo a plug and ground it to see if i see an arc? Thanks for the assistance
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and i was told that the spark plug closest to the firewall on the passenger side was not seated completely. :icon_confused:
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Its installed correctly now though
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Pull a plug out, pop the wire back on it, lay it on the valve cover and crank it over....see if you have spark jumping the gap. That is much easier on the module
Squeeze the tabs on the connector and pull it off an injector. Plug it on the noid lite, and then crank it over...see if it blinks
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Noid light confirms injector pulse. Headed to memphis wont be able to check plug until sunday. Thanks.
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might be the module if it has no spark...or the two fuses
hope it is not the timing chain
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I checked the fuses last night when it happened. They checked out. Could check again as it wouldnt hurt. Are there specific symptoms of a timing chain issue? Im assuming thats a dificult job... :hmm and i do have a control module if it turns out to be the issue
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If the timing chain has broken, it will have a very strange sound when you crank it over trying to start it....and the valves will not be going up and down, nor will the cam sensor be turning...if it has jumped a few teeth, it will probably sound a bit different and the compression will be much lower than normal.
to do a chain, you have to get the intercooler out of the way, pull the water pump off, unbolt the balancer, and then remove the front cover...tediou s and a pain in the rear....David could do it in his sleep
Don't panic yet
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No panic. Checking spark first. Its so cool to be drinking and keeping up with my car. On the way to memphis now. Probably wont enjoy trip as much as i would like due to my car. Car def sounds weird turning over. I can take a video if that'd help.
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if it has a different sound than normal, then that does not sound good to me
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:(
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Phil, any idea if your car has the original timing set?
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Pretty soon, we will have this car running better than you ever knew it could....the struggle will be worth it
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Hey Earl, I only know that the motor was rebuilt, but im not certain about the timing chain. I mean, it had the original fuel filter on there. Lol. Wouldnt be surprised if it was the original timing chain. Could explain why it has always taking so long for it to start when i turn the key over. Steve, i do hope that this all pay off in the long run. Seeing that I have seen progress, i can definitely admit to being positive about it all.
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hopefully it is not the chain, but they sound different when they jump a few teeth.
We will figure it out when you get back. It will be worth it when all is sorted out and you can just drive the car and start kicking azzz
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hopefully it is not the chain, but they sound different when they jump a few teeth.
We will figure it out when you get back. It will be worth it when all is sorted out and you can just drive the car and start kicking azzz
Lol.. I look forward to it. I would just make a visual observation on that right? As far the chain jumping teeth?
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it will be obvious...but we can check a few things first, starting with spark
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it will be obvious...but we can check a few things first, starting with spark
alright. I have a bit of support. My brother is going to remove a plug(with plug wire attatched) and lay it over the calve cover to varify spark. I'm awaiting his call now.
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Assuming the worse, what's the best thing to buy? Would it be just the timing chain, or the whole set? Im praying it don't come down to this. I read up on the details, and it seems SOOO time consuming. Definitely a PITA. not to mention that I really don't have that much time to spare. :(
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I figured I could just purchase whatever parts i needed from autozone.
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Timing set
camshaft thrust button
timing chain tensioner
Timing cover gasket set with rubber front seal
it's all available from Rock Auto...or most other places
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TA have a newish chain thats supposed to hold up better?
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says it is a steel set...hard to know
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A peek in the oil fill hole of the valve cover while someone else turns the motor over with the ignition key, will tell you if the timing chain is broken or not. If you see the valve train moving the chain is intact, but may still have jumped a few teeth. I would imagine that if the engine was rebuilt the timing gears and chain should be new, unless the guy was a real tight wod... Hang in there Phil, your in good hands here.
Chuck
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should we assume it had spark because you did not mention the result of the test your brother was going to do....unless I missed it
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Timing set
camshaft thrust button
timing chain tensioner
Timing cover gasket set with rubber front seal
it's all available from Rock Auto...or most other places
Ok, I'll keep this in mind
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Im trying to hang in there Chuck. Everytime i do one thing right, another goes wrong. Im trying to remain positive.
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should we assume it had spark because you did not mention the result of the test your brother was going to do....unless I missed it
havent got a chance to check spark yet. Just trying to prepare for the worse
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When I stripped my timing set I lost spark.
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When I stripped my timing set I lost spark.
Oh? So if I don't have spark, I wouldn't know if it's due to the timing chain or something else? I guess taking a peek in the valve cover would be the next step. Thanks
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Recieved my injectors and chip today!!(not really helping me any though. Lol)
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When I stripped my timing set I lost spark.
Oh? So if I don't have spark, I wouldn't know if it's due to the timing chain or something else? I guess taking a peek in the valve cover would be the next step. Thanks
Taking a peek through the oil fill hole is the easiest test to verify a stripped timing gear. (I still have the perfectly fine crank sensor I replaced waaaaaaaaaay back when :) )
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easiest perhaps, but not necessarily the best unless you are simply looking for a broken chain
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After I get home, im pulling a spark plug to check for spark. Any one in particular or it doesnt matter? They all should spark simultaneously yeah?
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If they all fired simultaneously, we would not have a firing order....
Pull the easiest one to get to...or use an old plug if you have one, pull one wire off, stick the old plug in it, lay it on the valve cover, then crank the engine over for a couple of seconds and you should see a spark.
Did you put your noid light on an injector connector to see if it blinked when you cranked it over to see if you had injector pulse? My memory is not good enuf for more than a half a days trouble shooting?
Finally, do you have a compression tester?
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I did the noid light and it blinked. I do not have a compression tester. I can ask my dad and see if he has one
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I just confirmed spark. I was expecting a bult of lighting, not a little light of spark. Lol. But i did see spark. Also removed the oil filler cap. Something in there was going up and down. I guess the valves
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Might no matter, but im posting a vid of the attempt to start
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so, did you have injector pulse?
And what does the compression read?
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I do have injector pulse. I dont have a compression tester
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It takes spark, fuel pressure, injector pulse, and compression to get an engine to run.
If the timing gear sheds a few teeth, then the valves and pistons will not be in synch to make compression. Checking it with a compression gauge will usually come up with a low number in that case. Often it will try to fire and pop back thru the intake as well as the exhaust.
Usually, if you have some lay on the floor and turn the crankshaft with a socket after you have removed the cam sensor cap, you can watch the wheel in the cam turn. It should turn steadily as the crank is turned. If, periodically, it hesitates in its rotation, and then starts again, this is a sign of missing teeth. this may be harder to spot if you are spinning it over on the starter.
When an engine has jumped time, it usually sounds a bit different while being cranked over as compared to the normal sound. You can also pull the number one plug and if it makes a very soft puff of air as it is being cranked, then you can probably assume it is not making much compression.\
If it is the timing gear, then you will need to pull the pan off and clean any debris off the oil pump pick up as well as out of the pan, etc.
Hard to believe someone would rebuild an engine and not use a new timing set
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Attempt to start buick (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUHTNaBlJuY#ws)
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The rocker arm moved so your cam is turning. That test won't tell if it's in the right place though.
If you can't find a compression gauge I think all the fast food parts stores have them for loan.
Can you pull all the plugs and see if any of them look odd? That's a test that can be done without and special tools. (and they got to come out anyway for the compression test)
Have we covered that there's no oil floating on top of the coolant and/or milkshake in the oil?
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The rocker arm moved so your cam is turning. That test won't tell if it's in the right place though.
If you can't find a compression gauge I think all the fast food parts stores have them for loan.
Can you pull all the plugs and see if any of them look odd? That's a test that can be done without and special tools. (and they got to come out anyway for the compression test)
Have we covered that there's no oil floating on top of the coolant and/or milkshake in the oil?
Plugs are brand new. I have pics of the old ones i took out. I removed the rapid fires,and put in the regular AC Delcos. I havent checkeed the coolant but I will. I'll look into getting a compression tester
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Tme is my biggest enemy right now. Might have to send car to the shop. :(
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Tme is my biggest enemy right now. Might have to send car to the shop. :(
May be cheaper to fly Steve in and get a few cases of PBR!
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I doubt it...when Phil says he does not have time to work on it...it translates to "I am afraid I might mess it up" :) This ain't my first rodeo :D
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Tme is my biggest enemy right now. Might have to send car to the shop. :(
May be cheaper to fly Steve in and get a few cases of PBR!
I wish I could fly Steve here!!! I'm sure he's too busy. We dont have much farm land here, but we do have plenty of beer.
And Steve is absolutely right. That's a job thats above my skill level. If I had something else to drive, it wouldnt be that big of a deal. :hmm
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There is a reason why I tell everyone they need to own two of these things!
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There is a reason why I tell everyone they need to own two of these things!
Im about to be on the market for one in a second. Lol. I figured installing these injectors would be hard enough. Now we talking about removing the front portion of the motor. HA!! Lmao. This is nuts.
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BUT, truth be told, given the time I wouldnt mind taking thing apart. Worse thing could happen is it not working when i put it back together. I was thinking of potentially taking some stuff apart day by day, but the wife don't like where the car is sitting right now. I don't have a cloaking device for it so i'm kind of screwed
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the injectors are very easy.
even worse is when you pay someone else to do the job and he screws it up........
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Hi Phil, I have been reading on all of your threads and I know how it feels to be threaded of the unknown. This site and as well as TurboBuick.com has great mentors who can help and guide you through replacing timing chain, both sprockets, damper tensioner, cam button, and front seal if that's what is needs to done. When I did this job I read, ask many, many questions, and a must have; PATIENCE.
The other option is to see if other members in this board and/or in TurboBuick.com board, who lives near your area of St. Louis Mo. Maybe someone might be able to assist you in your repair.
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Hi Phil, I have been reading on all of your threads and I know how it feels to be threaded of the unknown. This site and as well as TurboBuick.com has great mentors who can help and guide you through replacing timing chain, both sprockets, damper tensioner, cam button, and front seal if that's what is needs to done. When I did this job I read, ask many, many questions, and a must have; PATIENCE.
The other option is to see if other members in this board and/or in TurboBuick.com board, who lives near your area of St. Louis Mo. Maybe someone might be able to assist you in your repair.
That would be great, but again, its not so much of the job as it is the time. Vacation days are limited and so are my weekends. This job IS intimidating(wont lie about that), but if i had the time, i KNOW i could do it. My wife's new hours at her school leaves me with the kids in the evening some days after work. I haven't been to Turbobuick.com in a while. Maybe there could be someone there that could help, or point me towards a credible helping hand. My decision isn't completely finalized yet, seeing that I have not 100% confirmed the problem with the car. :x
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I think i might go ahead and do the damn work myself.... :hmm
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Is it possible to varify that the car jumped timing by simly plugging in a cam tool? (i think thats the name of that piece).
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I told you to rotate the crank slowly and to watch the cam sensor window wheel to see it it turned smoothly with the crank or if it hesitated at times and then started turning again.
Also, if the compression is low, then that is a sign
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Unfortunately Phil, that's the natural of these cars, one don't know until you dive in and examine the outcome. I don't know your car profile since there is nothing written in your Sig section. Many TR owners have replaced the timing components and mostly the cam nylon sprocket.
Some even replaced the nylon cam sprocket as early as 20,000 miles, since it's possible for sprocket teeth's to break off for many reason (stress, heat, age, etcs), and then do major damage to the engine. As Steve mention before remove the timing cam cap, have someone turn the engine over and closely, and carefully look at the cam disk window and see if it turns smoothly or does it hesitate as it turns. I saw your video, but that doesn't prove if the timing has jumped, or some of the cam sprocket teeth are missing, or broken off. When I replaced the timing components, I found one tooth broken off and that's one too many.
This type of work may look intimated, but you need to slowly take baby steps and when it doubt ask questions.
I know many mentor members on board are here to help others, especially SuperSix, Steve, PacecarTA, and many others.
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I told you to rotate the crank slowly and to watch the cam sensor window wheel to see it it turned smoothly with the crank or if it hesitated at times and then started turning again.
Also, if the compression is low, then that is a sign
This will be my next step. I DO have a silly question since you guys are being so helpful. How do you get to the crank? The only thing i found on gnttype.org was a crankshaft bulletin. Didnt direct me to the location, how to get it, etc. Thanks
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Unfortunately Phil, that's the natural of these cars, one don't know until you dive in and examine the outcome. I don't know your car profile since there is nothing written in your Sig section. Many TR owners have replaced the timing components and mostly the cam nylon sprocket.
Some even replaced the nylon cam sprocket as early as 20,000 miles, since it's possible for sprocket teeth's to break off for many reason (stress, heat, age, etcs), and then do major damage to the engine. As Steve mention before remove the timing cam cap, have someone turn the engine over and closely, and carefully look at the cam disk window and see if it turns smoothly or does it hesitate as it turns. I saw your video, but that doesn't prove if the timing has jumped, or some of the cam sprocket teeth are missing, or broken off. When I replaced the timing components, I found one tooth broken off and that's one too many.
This type of work may look intimated, but you need to slowly take baby steps and when it doubt ask questions.
I know many mentor members on board are here to help others, especially SuperSix, Steve, PacecarTA, and many others.
Ok, my patience is starting settle and I'm re-booting. I'll dig into it. Thanks a lot for the positivity and pep talk
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You don't know where the crankshaft is?
the harmonic balancer is bolted to the end of it...
Look at the picture...that is the damper in front of the arrows that point to the rear slot and the blade...it has a pulley on the front that turns the serpentine belt. Look inside from the front and see the big bolt? Put a socket on it with a breaker bar and turn CW. that rotates the crankshaft and via the timing chain it turns the camshaft and the cam sensor plus the oil pump
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This would be the best money you ever spent on your car http://buickman.r00td0wn.net/ (http://buickman.r00td0wn.net/)
In the meantime while you are trying to hit Charles up for $20, look at these. Note these are generic instructions and you may not have things mentioned like a distributor. You have a cam sensor tho
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You don't know where the crankshaft is?
the harmonic balancer is bolted to the end of it...
Look at the picture...that is the damper in front of the arrows that point to the rear slot and the blade...it has a pulley on the front that turns the serpentine belt. Look inside from the front and see the big bolt? Put a socket on it with a breaker bar and turn CW. that rotates the crankshaft and via the timing chain it turns the camshaft and the cam sensor plus the oil pump
Oh my, i feel like Steve yelled at me here!!!! Lol. I had an idea where it was, but wanted confirmation. Lol. Hey Steve, is it illegal to mail beer to people? And, i have some great news. Found a guy willing to help me out on MY terms. He's a mechanic and he's familiar with GN's. My terms basically include working in his shop alongside of him so i can be sure everything is done by the book. He has all the tools necessary seeing that he has rebuilt one of these motors before. Due to my patience(and you guys staying on top of it like always) i think i just saved some money and headache with this job. Thanks for all the help and I will keep you all posted on my findings as I figure out what exactly is wrong with the car
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You are lucky...I quit drinking a couple of years ago or so!
that sounds like a really good deal to me...it always helps to work along side someone that has done it before....I have learned a lot from breaking parts, myself...:D
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also
http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/2_thru_4.htm (http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/2_thru_4.htm)
http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/7_thru_8.htm (http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/7_thru_8.htm)
http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/11_thru_12.htm (http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/11_thru_12.htm)
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This would be the best money you ever spent on your car http://buickman.r00td0wn.net/ (http://buickman.r00td0wn.net/)
In the meantime while you are trying to hit Charles up for $20, look at these. Note these are generic instructions and you may not have things mentioned like a distributor. You have a cam sensor tho
Hi Phil, That sound great that you found someone to help you out, and whats even better you're right next to the mechanic learning from him.
Steve pointed out to you of getting a CD from buickman, definitely get it, great info and pictures to learn as you disassemble the timing cover.
Keep us posted of progress and maybe some pictures if your hands are not dirty. haha
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You really can't be afraid of ANYTHING Phil-
- You have a 25 year old GN as your only daily driver- THAT takes guts!
I had 4 of 5 cars broke this summer, I only drove the GN 'cuz it was 'least broke of the 4.
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You are lucky...I quit drinking a couple of years ago or so!
that sounds like a really good deal to me...it always helps to work along side someone that has done it before....I have learned a lot from breaking parts, myself...:D
thats too bad!! I'll take some sips for you Steve. And thanks for the links.
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This would be the best money you ever spent on your car http://buickman.r00td0wn.net/ (http://buickman.r00td0wn.net/)
In the meantime while you are trying to hit Charles up for $20, look at these. Note these are generic instructions and you may not have things mentioned like a distributor. You have a cam sensor tho
Hi Phil, That sound great that you found someone to help you out, and whats even better you're right next to the mechanic learning from him.
Steve pointed out to you of getting a CD from buickman, definitely get it, great info and pictures to learn as you disassemble the timing cover.
Keep us posted of progress and maybe some pictures of your hands are not dirty. haha
there's no way all tha work gets done with no pics!! :D
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You really can't be afraid of ANYTHING Phil-
- You have a 25 year old GN as your only daily driver- THAT takes guts!
I had 4 of 5 cars broke this summer, I only drove the GN 'cuz it was 'least broke of the 4.
now that you put it that way, im a brave dude. Just instilled some confidence in me.
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And to verify, i have to move that fan sitting behind the intercooler to get to that nut? Just making sure. Thanks
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Nevermind, i think i was looking at the wrong pulley
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Just looked at the other diagrams. I overlook every damn thing. I got it now. Thanks
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I kept confusing the crankshaft and camshaft. Crankshaft is the one at the bottom with the intercooler fan attatched.
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So, pictures, the shop manual, and the engine assembly manual did not help...
This is going to be an interesting adventure! :D
I bet cable tv will be willing to start a reality show and install cameras to film this process. I am willing to announce it if Halle Berry is going to be my co-host...
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You guys are too funny
This is better than Comedy Central
Just a reminder Phil, if you get stuck post your questions as we all can't wait to hear from you.
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So, pictures, the shop manual, and the engine assembly manual did not help...
This is going to be an interesting adventure! :D
I bet cable tv will be willing to start a reality show and install cameras to film this process. I am willing to announce it if Halle Berry is going to be my co-host...
:( I caught the mistake before anyone responded!!!!! :D Those posts shouldnt count. Lol.
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AND, if Halle Berry is co-host of a show thats filming me, i can almost guarantee that no work would get done!!! :chin:
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You guys are too funny
This is better than Comedy Central
Just a reminder Phil, if you get stuck post your questions as we all can't wait to hear from you.
Thank you sir!! Steve is beyond tired of me. I can sense it through the keys. :rock:
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I will be there with Halle congratulating you on a strong finish at the end :atbeer:
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I got the car up in the air yesterday, removed a few parts. This morning went out, and i found my coolant leak. The damn radiator itself!! Im taking it out and seeing if i can have it repaired. Im also thinking about putting a different thermostat in there. 180 should be fine yeah? I think i read somewhere that they didnt have the 160's local.
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I ordered from gn1 and full throttle the 160s...but 180 should be fine...be sure to order a new water outlet tho because there may not be much left of your old one.
Here is one I pulled out the other day...been in there about ten years
Took visegrips to get it out
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new one
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..be sure to order a new water outlet tho because there may not be much left of your old one.
Amen! -you almost wonder why they even bother with the retainer
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here is a housing by itself
http://www.metcomotorsports.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MTO0003 (http://www.metcomotorsports.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MTO0003)
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I will be there with Halle congratulating you on a strong finish at the end :atbeer:
Kinky!
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Alright thanks for the heads up sir.
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WithHelp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxYMsHuHqeI#)
AJ___
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WithHelp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxYMsHuHqeI#)
AJ___
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Is this thread too long? I tried uploading a couple of progresion pics. The size of the pics weren't too big but nothing happened when i did it. I'll try again
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progress so far
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Phil, it sounds like you are taking the engine apart.
Did I miss the part where you figured out the timing chain was the culprit? I don't recall any posts about checking the compression or seeing that the chain was skipping periodically as you rotated the engine
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Looks like that connector is the issue I been having when my fan kicks on. The voltage drop on SM is ridiculous when the fan comes on.
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progress so far
Holy crap that connector is toast. I would replace that, and the cam sensor cap before I went much further...
(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z337/Supersix231/index-3.jpg)
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Get a new belt - you have a 640K6, they are 1/2" too long.
http://www.amazon.com/Goodyear-4060635-Gatorback-Poly-V-Belts/dp/B000C32J6I (http://www.amazon.com/Goodyear-4060635-Gatorback-Poly-V-Belts/dp/B000C32J6I)
See this thread:
http://www.ihadav8.com/forum/index.php?topic=3639 (http://www.ihadav8.com/forum/index.php?topic=3639)
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that is pretty common on fan connectors.... usually the ground wire in my experience
something really looks odd about that cam sensor...I cannot figure it out
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Oops - I thought that was the cam sensor connection.
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i removed the cam sensor cap to watch the top of the cam sensor spin. what i've done so far is make it easier for the removal of the radiator and such. Thing was beyond filthy. I haven't confirmed the compression yet. But seeing that the car wasn't moving, i looked around and found some other issues as i believe i may need a new water pump. I had been leaking coolant from multiple places it seems. I do believe that is the ground side thats on the connector that looks like that. I think I might run another ground or simply splice those wires and bypass that terminal for now
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I have more pics but for some reason i cant upload them.
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Hey Steve, unless im mistaken, i needed to remove that fan off of that pulley so i could get to the nut to turn the crank right? I think it'll be better confirmed if i just borrowed a compression tester from local parts store. There's a plate on the front of the pulley on the crankshaft right? That sits behind the fan for the intercooler? It's held down by three nuts that are size 17/32. I attempted to remove those, but everything started turning. What exactly am i missing here? I feel like im doing something wrong at this point...
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If the weather holds up, im gonna head to autozone and get a compression tester as a loan-a-tool
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been too long since I had a fan on the pulley. Don't recall if there is anything blocking you from sticking an extension into the center of the pulley and down to crankshaft bolt or not-pictures I gave you from the manual show three bolts holding the pulley I think
to do a compression test, you turn the engine over with the starter.
Remove the spark plugs, screw the compression gauge into one of the plug holes, then put the gas pedal to the floor and spin the engine over with the key. Unplug the cam sensor before you turn the key over...or, unplug the the orange wire off the battery so the car will not be trying to makes sparks during this process.
Me, if I am doing this test for this purpose, I might only take the number one plug out because it will spin fast enuf if the battery is charged. Let it turn over about six or seven times to get the full compression reading. Be sure you are holding the gas pedal down
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Only potential good news is that i got the Radiator dropped off. Guy told me to call him monday.
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Only potential good news is that i got the Radiator dropped off. Guy told me to call him monday.
what happened to the guy that was going to work with you?
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been too long since I had a fan on the pulley. Don't recall if there is anything blocking you from sticking an extension into the center of the pulley and down to crankshaft bolt or not-pictures I gave you from the manual show three bolts holding the pulley I think
to do a compression test, you turn the engine over with the starter.
Remove the spark plugs, screw the compression gauge into one of the plug holes, then put the gas pedal to the floor and spin the engine over with the key. Unplug the cam sensor before you turn the key over...or, unplug the the orange wire off the battery so the car will not be trying to makes sparks during this process.
Me, if I am doing this test for this purpose, I might only take the number one plug out because it will spin fast enuf if the battery is charged. Let it turn over about six or seven times to get the full compression reading. Be sure you are holding the gas pedal down
Thanks steve. I have other pics to show the plate thats blocking the center of the pulley but i cant post for some reason. I let you know the next test go. Thanks.
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better view of pulley
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that plate should unbolt...thats what was holding the intercooler fan ....the Crank bolt is behind that...
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thats wat i was thinking. Any clue on how efficient that fan is?
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Most of the fans have broken blades by now and have been removed....but, once the bolts are out, I would suspect rust is holding it to the pulley
As there was no shroud, I kinda doubt they were very efficient
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ok.thanks
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Got the compression tester, and im only pulling the number one plug. What should the gauge read while turning over? Thanks
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follow my instructions and remember to hold the pedal on the floor...discon nect the orange wire or the cam sensor so it won't try to start...or leave the cam sensor cap off
Crank the engine until the needle stops rising...this will take a few seconds of cranking
An engine in good condition will make 145 psi or so
Let us know what yours reads
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Thanks Steve
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and i leave the other plugs in? initially you said to remove them all. But now im just taking the number one out? sorry for sounding slow. I actually am slow and a bit annoyed.
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and i meant to ask what all it took to remove that oil adapter plate for the oil cooler?
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nevermind. think i found it on vortex. i didnt see a way to loop the hoses which is why i asked. I would prefer to loop the hoses because i think it would be easier.
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said one plug because I thought it was easier and good enough for this purpose
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said one plug because I thought it was easier and good enough for this purpose
cool
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....but when running a compression test the correct way, you remove all the spark plugs, take the readings, and write them down with a mileage notation.
Might save a lot of time with future troubleshootin g.
(plus the engine spins over better with no plugs in place)
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ok. that makes sense. thanks earl
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for this purpose, just cut to the chase and tell us what compression that cylinder is seeing
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follow my instructions and remember to hold the pedal on the floor...discon nect the orange wire or the cam sensor so it won't try to start...or leave the cam sensor cap off
Crank the engine until the needle stops rising...this will take a few seconds of cranking
An engine in good condition will make 145 psi or so
Let us know what yours reads
Hi Steve, When doing a compression test why is the need to press the gas pedal down when the orange wire is disconnected to prevent the engine from starting?
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so the engine can ingest a normal amount of air to be compressed...k inda like trying to run a hundred yards with both nostrils plugged up and your mouth closed.
Very little air can enter the cylinders if the butterfly in the throttlebody is closed
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drumroll...... .............. .............. .............. .......compres sion test results are in. On the number one cylinder, i got a compresson reading of 85 PSI. :icon_confused:
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about 40-50 psi less than I would have expected if you did the test the way I asked
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Throttle blade wide open, every spark plug plugged up except for the number one, connected the compression tester up, and had the car cranked until the pressure stopped rising
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we can wait for a second, third, fourth, or whatever opinions, but, based on:
sounds different when cranking, blew white smoke out the air cleaner, has spark and injector pulse plus fuel pressure but does not try to fire, way low compression
I would say from a long way away that the timing chain has skipped a few teeth so that the valves are now open when the piston is near top dead center.
You might go ahead and put a socket on the crank and turn the engine slowly to see if you can see erratic movement of the cam sensor "wheel" and/or ask Earl for a professional opinion
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thanks
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For it to be a professional opinion I'd have to charge .. :tongue ...
And nothing makes me shudder more than a "freshly rebuilt engine" on these cars.
I'd be on stage four by now:
1) irritation
2) drinking hoping that will bring me an answer other thna pulling the timing cover/oil pan
3) checking lobe lift hoping I can find an answer (and hoping that answer isn't a flat lobe)
4) Pulling the timing cover and oil pan
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another http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/engine/tchain.html (http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/engine/tchain.html)
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The site that Steve gave you on how to replace the timing chain replacement; on #4 it saids "remove the harmonic balancer bolt, (hope you have a air gun)". If you don't have an air gun you can use a DeWalt DW059 1/2" 18V Cordless Impact Wrench. You will also need a 1 1/8" socket, Advanced Auto has them for around $10.00, that's what I used when did this work. Just don't use the cordless impact wrench to put the harmonic balancer bolt back in place or to use it to tighten the harmonic balancer bolt.
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For it to be a professional opinion I'd have to charge .. :tongue ...
And nothing makes me shudder more than a "freshly rebuilt engine" on these cars.
I'd be on stage four by now:
1) irritation
2) drinking hoping that will bring me an answer other thna pulling the timing cover/oil pan
3) checking lobe lift hoping I can find an answer (and hoping that answer isn't a flat lobe)
4) Pulling the timing cover and oil pan
irritation and hopes that i didnt have to pull the timing cover are at the top of my list. Its a surprise that i havent drank myself into oblivion
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The site that Steve gave you on how to replace the timing chain replacement; on #4 it saids "remove the harmonic balancer bolt, (hope you have a air gun)". If you don't have an air gun you can use a DeWalt DW059 1/2" 18V Cordless Impact Wrench. You will also need a 1 1/8" socket, Advanced Auto has them for around $10.00, that's what I used when did this work. Just don't use the cordless impact wrench to put the harmonic balancer bolt back in place or to use it to tighten the harmonic balancer bolt.
Thanks for the tip. Luckily, i have access to a compressor and some impact tools.
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another http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/engine/tchain.html (http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/engine/tchain.html)
no way that job gets done in 4 hours
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not if it takes you five hours to do a compression test on one cylinder! LOL
I don't think it's really that bad, but, when you are doing something the first time, it always takes longer....
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not if it takes you five hours to do a compression test on one cylinder! LOL
I don't think it's really that bad, but, when you are doing something the first time, it always takes longer....
LMAO!!!!!! It only took that long because i needed a second hand. Needed someone to turn the key as i watched the gauge.
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http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/engine/timingchain.html (http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/engine/timingchain.html) :icon_confused: :( :icon_neutral:
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I have SOOO many questions, but i wont tackle them all at once. Are the parts provided earlier in this thread available anywhere? Are they special and should i only order from Rock Auto? Thanks
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Only potential good news is that i got the Radiator dropped off. Guy told me to call him monday.
what happened to the guy that was going to work with you?
Hi Phil, What ever happen to other guy who was going to help you?
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I would take it apart before ordering parts... I got my timing set here http://www.fullthrottlespeed.com/itemdesc.asp+ic+1851014+eq++Tp+ (http://www.fullthrottlespeed.com/itemdesc.asp+ic+1851014+eq++Tp+) just beware, this is a candy store for our Buicks... so don't look around this website.... I like Mike and bought most of my parts through him on my last build.
Like I said, I would take the front cover off and see what you have to work with.... good luck! (look how much you have learned already in the last 2 weeks)
Chuck
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no way that job gets done in 4 hours
Nope....
'cause if you pull the timing cover, I have another article for you to read :icon_eyes:
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Only potential good news is that i got the Radiator dropped off. Guy told me to call him monday.
what happened to the guy that was going to work with you?
Hi Phil, What ever happen to other guy who was going to help you?
I guess some things are too good to be true. The day i was suppose to take the car to him, he and his girl got into it. I dont know about what, nor do i care. At that point I realized i was going to have to do this shit myself. Its reasons like that why i dont depend on anybody to do shit for me. :rolleyes;
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I would take it apart before ordering parts... I got my timing set here http://www.fullthrottlespeed.com/itemdesc.asp+ic+1851014+eq++Tp+ (http://www.fullthrottlespeed.com/itemdesc.asp+ic+1851014+eq++Tp+) just beware, this is a candy store for our Buicks... so don't look around this website.... I like Mike and bought most of my parts through him on my last build.
Like I said, I would take the front cover off and see what you have to work with.... good luck! (look how much you have learned already in the last 2 weeks)
Chuck
Thats a good point, because i have definitely learned a lot over the last week.
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no way that job gets done in 4 hours
Nope....
'cause if you pull the timing cover, I have another article for you to read :icon_eyes:
Lol. Oh wow.
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Holy crap!!! 129.99?? the parts i've been looking at as a whole came out cheaper! Lol. Whats the catch?
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though that says standard chain, the pic looks like a double roller and you do not need, or want, a double roller on a stock camshaft engine...no need to panic....:D
Okay, it meant standard length...but you don't need a double roller
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Add a pan gasket to the parts list.
I would also replace the water pump and I think you said it may have been dripping anyway.
And, go make your brother pay you back the money he owes you. Then see if Earl can supply you with one of his reworked front covers and oil pumps...then you will be good to go
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I thought that pic was of a double roller!! Glad to see i aint tripping. Earl rebuilds those things? I'll upload pics as soon as i get the front cover off. This is truly a pain. I dont how its possible to drop that oil pan giving the location of it.
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You remove all the bolts and slide it out. Sometimes it may catch on a counterweight and you will have to rotate the crank until it is no longer hanging on the weight
Don't know if Earl has one on hand, but, from what I have seen, his are the best available
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AND, i have to get the car in my garage so i can work on it in there. This is minor stuff to do, but its stuff to do nonetheless.
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If/when he chimes in, we'll see.
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Is the front cover something that can't be re-used? Just curious. Thanks
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Is the front cover something that can't be re-used? Just curious. Thanks
Yes.
While it's out, there's some prep work and measurements to take.
http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/buick-v6-turbo-tech/39169-how-build-front-cover-oil-pump.html (http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/buick-v6-turbo-tech/39169-how-build-front-cover-oil-pump.html)
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it can be reused as long as it is not worn out from abuse of contaminated oil being pumped thru it which can wear out the gears and scratch up the pocket. I mentioned it because I have doubts about the rebuild job that may, or may not, have been done to your engine
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Shit just got real, yo.
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Hi Phil, This is up to you on where you might want to buy your parts, buy this is what I did, and it didn't empty both of my pockets.
I gave you an example of the Cloyes #C-3018K and chain tensioner looks like
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Shit just got real, yo.
Hell yeah.
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Shit just got real, yo.
Hell yeah.
(http://rsxisfaster.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/catvtec2.jpg)
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Hahahahahahaha hahahahahhahah a
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You know what? I think yall bout to be pissed at me. :chin:
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well, suck it up and explain how you botched the compression test and what blown fuse you found?
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well, suck it up and explain how you botched the compression test and what blown fuse you found?
I wish that was the case. Lol. Im gonna Like Mike Christiansen take care of it for me.
http://www.sportmachines.com/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=Truck+and+Sport+Utility+Performance+Feb+1993 (http://www.sportmachines.com/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=Truck+and+Sport+Utility+Performance+Feb+1993)
I enjoy going to him as he's the closest thing to the board that I have hear to give me future heads up on things. Im gonna suck up the price, but it is what it is. I've learned a lot throughout this ordeal
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You know what? I think yall bout to be pissed at me. :chin:
so what was it....also a true compression test should be done on a warm engine...
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nope...he chickened out and is taking it to a shop...he will probably get to do it again when he gets it back :D
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You know what? I think yall bout to be pissed at me. :chin:
so what was it....also a true compression test should be done on a warm engine...
i couldnt get it to be warm tho :icon_neutral:
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nope...he chickened out and is taking it to a shop...he will probably get to do it again when he gets it back :D
Dont say that Steve!! :x I'd flip out if that happened. He's a good guy tho. All should be well. I'll post up a vid when i get er done.
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The main thing to me is this, your moving forward with it, keep us posted on the progress... and good luck!
Chuck
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The main thing to me is this, your moving forward with it, keep us posted on the progress... and good luck!
Chuck
Positivity!!! Its a beautiful thing!! Lol. Thanks Chuck
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You get everything fixed and the new injectors/chip installed...yo u may be stunned how well the car can run
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You get everything fixed and the new injectors/chip installed...yo u may be stunned how well the car can run
Look forward to it. Im thinking of installing the chip and inectors before I send the car off to the shop. Might as well huh?
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yep.....get it off to a good start!
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thats what i was thinking
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Don't you guys miss this thread??
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And, im going to pick up my car tonight
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does that mean it runs...or you are fed up and gonna park it at your house?
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So, stop leaving us hanging! What happened? :) I would like to be happy for you since I am pissed for myself at the moment! LOL
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sorry for the delay. the car is running great. im going to post pics of the gears and timing chain that was removed from the car. either he did something else, or the stripped timing gear was robbing me of throttle response and a great running car because the drive home was magnificent. I didnt punch it or anything, but cruising on the highway and light throttle she was ready to go!!!!!!!!!!!
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now i can only imagine what these injectors and chip is going to do for the car
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Most definitely a slipped timing chain will kill performance... .
that is great news! Yes, the injectors and chip will be better, but, probably not nearly the improvement you are currently experiencing! I am happy for you!! :cheers:
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that is great to hear!!!!!!!!! glad you confirmed. the only negative thing about the job is that the guy put a double roller on there. he said that he don't like the dbl rollers but that was the one he could get the quickest. the car's response to throttle is beyond impressive. i think i might put up a video. we'll see what happens with this setup.
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I don't like them either (on Buicks with stock, or near stock cams)..but, if he bought a good one that won't stretch much, it will be okay.
Get the new injectors and chip in there so you can run some more boost and it will go even better...
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Does the guy that installed the double roller know enough to leave the tentioner off? (and if so, did you keep the parts in case you need them later?)
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i did keep the parts Earl!!! One thing i did do right. Lol. I can take pics of them. he said that he think this issue was cause to heat. (not that far off in my mind since i had the stock radiator in there since i had it and it had been running upwards of 220). I can ask him if he left the tensioner off(unless its something that i can see for myself). And, as i mentioned, he is the one responsible for the Cyclone. He knows a ton. I trust SOME of his input. Lol.
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I don't like them either (on Buicks with stock, or near stock cams)..but, if he bought a good one that won't stretch much, it will be okay.
Get the new injectors and chip in there so you can run some more boost and it will go even better...
So, would a future solution be to get a cam that matches? AND, i cant wait to install those injectors and that chip. Im still in shock at how well the car runs with this stock setup(chip and injectors). Im finally coming alive folks.
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And to add, i believe the stock chip has the fan coming on at about 205? I got the new F-body radiator, and on the ride home, the car stayed around 192 on the highway, and in traffic, 203. I thought this was impressive seeing as with the stock rad/fan my car was running upwards of 215-220 regardless of the weather conditions. :rock:
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when i got home, i opened the hood and the fan wasn't even running. That's a first for me as i was grinning from ear to ear
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The stock cam will run tens but I usually suggest one in the low elevens so I would say that a cam is not required any time soon :)
I am not sure if there was a difference in the fan turn on temp between the original chip and the later "emissions" chip that cam in later cars, but, I think the fan turned on at 197 on some of them. I could go thru the chip dump on gnttype that TurboDave uploaded but maybe someone else has done it already :D
The timing gears are usually in danger of going once they get to a 100,000 miles, but, I think heat would be a definite contributor to failure.
I am glad to see you happy with the car. Now you know why we think these things are so great.
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Cool. Thanks a bunch. i know the TT chip that i have should cut on at 180* so I'm happy about that. I've always loved the car, even tho it's costing me and have it's hood up more than down. Lol
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Interesting fact of the day: The stock chip turns on the fan at 197 degrees, off at 192
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Cool. Thanks a bunch. i know the TT chip that i have should cut on at 180* so I'm happy about that. I've always loved the car, even tho it's costing me and have it's hood up more than down. Lol
Normally, the TT chip turns the fan on at 167. If you asked him to raise it, it may be higher
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167? Dang. I didnt have him change it no. But, thats fine. the t-stat is a 180.
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I am not sure the new 160 thermostats are worth a damn based upon some reports. It is not cold enuf here for me to know yet on the two new ones I installed recently. I am guessing they are from China and one or two have been reported to start opening around 145 degs instead of 158-162 as they should
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Oh wow. car would never heat up. Lol.
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There was a discussion on this by some of the Canucks...some one tried to claim that this was normal, but, that's not so. They should normally open with in a couple of degs of the rating.
The guy in question was running in the 140's going down the road. Cars need to be at least 160 to minimize engine wear.
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Makes sense
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The guy in question was running in the 140's going down the road. Cars need to be at least 160 to minimize engine wear.
Were they running 140 or was the gauge indicating 140. I noticed that my VDO temp gauge reads 182 when I'm 160 now. My scanmaster and IR temp gun back up my 160.
Moral of the story: Sometimes you have to know when not to trust your tools :)
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gauge, ecm, and a pot of hot water