IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
General => IHADAV8 Playground => Topic started by: Steve Wood on February 02 2019, 10:00:53 PM
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This does not sound at all like the glowing reviews of Canadian health Care that I hear here but it sounds exactly like what my Canadian employees told in 2000.
'Medicare-for-all' means long waits for poor care, and Americans won't go for it once they learn these facts
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/medicare-for-all-means-long-waits-for-poor-care-and-americans-wont-go-for-it-once-they-learn-these-facts (https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/medicare-for-all-means-long-waits-for-poor-care-and-americans-wont-go-for-it-once-they-learn-these-facts)
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That must have been written by a republican
[/size][/color][/size]
''In 2006, per-capita spending for [/color][/size]health care[/color][/size] in [/color][/size]Canada[/color][/size] was [/color][/size]US[/color][/size]$3,678; in the [/color][/size]U.S.[/color][/size],[/color][/size]US[/color][/size]$6,714. The [/color][/size]U.S.[/color][/size] spent 15.3% of GDP on [/color][/size]healthcare[/color][/size] in that year; [/color][/size]Canada[/color][/size] spent 10.0%. ... Some of the noted differences were a higher life expectancy in [/color][/size]Canada[/color][/size], as well as a lower infant mortality rate [/color][/size]than[/color][/size] the United States.''[/color]
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[/size]And as far as universal healthcare in Canada[/color]
[/size]The starting date was July 1, 1968, and the Act provided that the federal government would pay about half of Medicare costs in any province with insurance plans that met the criteria of being universal, publicly administered, portable and comprehensive.[/color]Jul 3, 2012''[/color][/size][/size]All the provinces have their own ideas about healthcare and different things and drugs[/color][/size]are covered so not truly NATIONAL[/color][/size] ,And they allways tout how many go to the US for health care but leave out how [/color][/size] many leave the US for healthcare. Seems to me that doesn't fit the agenda.[/color][/size]IMHO of course[/color] :D
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Sorry about the text
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Ron's text:
In 2006, per-capita spending for health care in Canada was US$3,678;
in the U.S.,US$6,714. The U.S. spent 15.3% of GDP on healthcare in that year;
Canada spent 10.0%. ...
Some of the noted differences were a higher life expectancy in Canada,
as well as a lower infant mortality rate than the United States.''
And as far as universal healthcare in Canada
The starting date was July 1, 1968, and the Act provided that the federal government would pay about half of Medicare costs in any province with insurance plans that met the criteria of being universal, publicly administered, portable and comprehensive.
Jul 3, 2012''All the provinces have their own ideas about healthcare and different things and drugsare covered so not truly NATIONAL ,And they allways tout how many go to the US for health care but leave out how many leave the US for healthcare. Seems to me that doesn't fit the agenda.IMHO of course
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National or state healthcare is great as long as one is not critically ill. As I have posted prior, I have some experience with the system and lost two very good employees/friends over the inability to see a specialist/gain admittance to a cancer center. The fact that it took two years to quit treating them for bronchitis rather than running tests to find out why they could not be cured of their bronchitis is another issue. That seems to be pretty common anywhere one does not have access to first class doctors. I live in one of those areas.
I managed to get one of my friends into MD Anderson once he had finally been diagnosed with Mesothelioma. Coincidentally, MDA's cancer head was a Canadian. He just shook his head and said it was way too late in the process to do anything other than to keep him comfortable.
I posted the link as it pointed out that the average wait to see some that had been referred was 19.3 weeks. I guess one could infer that this is due to shortage of specialists/medical facilities?
Many good, experienced Doctors in this country have retired rather than deal with government bureaucracy. A federal/state socialized system will simply create an extension of the V.A. medical system which is far too often criminal in behaviour.
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There are no easy answers for any of this stuff. Specialists in under served areas basically have unlimited billing, so it is as much as they are willing to work. Other metropolitan areas Govt bean counters try to limit specialist billing as cost control.I know a few radiologists, their complaint is MD's being afraid or lazy and send way too many MRI req's, clogging the system.
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Thanks Dave
The first line was
That link must have been written by a republican,
Because it sure seems like they have some agenda.
I would agree that neither system is perfect, It would seem to me tho that the US has an elite system and not everybody has access to the same healthcare.
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I can only speak on the VA. Met with them in August of 2018 to have blood work and physical completed. Was referred to the TBI center for follow up. For those that aren't aware, I had to land a chinook when I didn't really want to over in Iraq back in 2005 and I bounced my head around the cockpit a little bit upon touchdown. Appointment was set for 28 Dec 2018. I was contacted on 12 Dec 2018 and told that the appointment needed to be rescheduled due to one of the physicians having a family emergency. I thought the reason to be a bit vague as the appointment was still a few weeks away but ok. Appointment was rescheduled for sometime in May 2019. So now I wait...
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The problem in the States is very simple. Government does not live under the same rules that it imposes on the populace.
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I can only speak on the VA. Met with them in August of 2018 to have blood work and physical completed. Was referred to the TBI center for follow up. For those that aren't aware, I had to land a chinook when I didn't really want to over in Iraq back in 2005 and I bounced my head around the cockpit a little bit upon touchdown. Appointment was set for 28 Dec 2018. I was contacted on 12 Dec 2018 and told that the appointment needed to be rescheduled due to one of the physicians having a family emergency. I thought the reason to be a bit vague as the appointment was still a few weeks away but ok. Appointment was rescheduled for sometime in May 2019. So now I wait...
That's BS, they screw you guys around way too much.
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I can only speak on the VA. Met with them in August of 2018 to have blood work and physical completed. Was referred to the TBI center for follow up. For those that aren't aware, I had to land a chinook when I didn't really want to over in Iraq back in 2005 and I bounced my head around the cockpit a little bit upon touchdown. Appointment was set for 28 Dec 2018. I was contacted on 12 Dec 2018 and told that the appointment needed to be rescheduled due to one of the physicians having a family emergency. I thought the reason to be a bit vague as the appointment was still a few weeks away but ok. Appointment was rescheduled for sometime in May 2019. So now I wait...
The VA is the single most national disgrace. Some of my country friends have been helped by the change that allowed them to be able to find a non-VA doctor because they live more than 40 miles from the nearest VA center. I don't know how many times they drove to San Antonio or Kerrville to find their appointment was rescheduled or moved to a different place...
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I do believe our medical system prioritizes, maybe not officially but life threatening situations, children and young breadwinners get served. My teen had a problem with his leg, there was concern about a possible clot and the Dr was able to get him in for MRI right away. When wrecked my knee , I could still hobble about and the wait was maybe 3 months? Since I knew a bit about the system I rebooked within 3 weeks but had do an offpeak and 1.5Hr drive to get it done.Probably took a few more weeks to book in thesurgeon consultatation with results. Surgery was set up dunno. maybe 6weeks out from there? Best I can remember :o
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National or state healthcare is great as long as one is not critically ill. As I have posted prior, I have some experience with the system and lost two very good employees/friends over the inability to see a specialist/gain admittance to a cancer center. The fact that it took two years to quit treating them for bronchitis rather than running tests to find out why they could not be cured of their bronchitis is another issue. That seems to be pretty common anywhere one does not have access to first class doctors. I live in one of those areas.
I managed to get one of my friends into MD Anderson once he had finally been diagnosed with Mesothelioma. Coincidentally, MDA's cancer head was a Canadian. He just shook his head and said it was way too late in the process to do anything other than to keep him comfortable.
I posted the link as it pointed out that the average wait to see some that had been referred was 19.3 weeks. I guess one could infer that this is due to shortage of specialists/medical facilities?
Many good, experienced Doctors in this country have retired rather than deal with government bureaucracy. A federal/state socialized system will simply create an extension of the V.A. medical system which is far too often criminal in behaviour.
If you don't like your doctor you can get a new one! One of my parents friend was in his 70's and diagnosed with cancer. His doctor didn't want to treat him, he went to another doctor and they got him in right away and beat the cancer. Heaven forbid someone take responsibility for their own life! If you have a bad mechanic are you going to keep seeing him? What if you have a bad financial advisor? Nothing and nobody can force you to stay with a doctor you don't agree with! You have choices. A good buddy of mine Dad had cancer but he had a bad doctor and wasn't diagnosed till someone finally told him to go see another one. Unfortunately at that time it was too late.
One of the biggest problem we have is people going to the hospital that have nothing wrong with them!
One of my friend's brother lives in Kentucky and pays $2000/month for his plan. Seems like a lot of money to me! And what if you have a prior condition?
Malpractice is huge in the States. One of my friend's was an assistant to one of the big surgeons here in the city. The guy did lung transplants, heart transplants, you name it. He was asked why he didn't go to the States. He said he was interested in paying huge insurance costs and the hassle of being sued. He transplanted 2 lungs in a girl and that was about 15 years ago and got $250k a lung. So I don't think he is hurting.
I don't think it is cut and dry like people think. I work for the hospital system and I have seen things first hand and read a bunch of BS about how things work in my local papers. It's funny because when I talked to the staff we all laugh at the crap that is written. It's too bad they have to slant everything!:(
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The system is totally broken in the states and the government is a large part of the reason. Socialized medicine run by the State will not fix it.
If we do not soon return the government to the people, nothing will fix it.
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Why were all these Americans buying their drugs from Canada? There were even State's buying their medicine for the Federal workers from Canada. My cousin whom lived in Cali worked for big Pharma she was telling a pharmacist the price for some pills which were $2 and over heard him telling the patient $20/pill.
A good friend is a nurse in Florida. She tells me how awful the bill gouging is! She told me about a 22 year old that came in for a rattler bite and that would probably have to claim bankruptcy after getting treated. Heaven forbid the government at minimum puts in laws to stop gouging the sick!
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Your remarks demonstrate what happens when the free enterprise system is manipulated by the government to eliminate competition.
Once again, I will state that government in this country no longer follows the model "of the people, for the people, by the people". It is controlled by the international rich that hide behind the straw man of socialism to tilt the tables of enterprise toward the chosen few. There is far more reason for an American revolution today than there was in 1776. Medical care is simply the tip of the ice berg.
On the other hand, the socialist system removes the incentive to rise above the average so that the excellent go elsewhere. I suspect that in another 20 years, Canada will look completely different than it does today. It's small population makes it easier to change and immigration will make it the next France, or Germany in a shorter period of time as the population explodes and a new "Canadian" takes over. Project the birth rates.
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Lots of truth to that, Steve! Most government representative s are from wealthy families. Then you have the lobbyists that are constantly manipulating those representative s. Nothing is clear cut like people might or want to think.
It's like dealing with budget's and the ideology of if you don't use it you lose it! Which leads to wasteful spending because nobody wants to lose their budget. It's almost like saying if you don't spend your full pay cheque we are going to give you less.
I'm all for free enterprise and making money I just don't believe you should take advantage of the sick.
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The only reason we take advantage of the sick is due to the corrupt practices allowed by government. It is not a free market place
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It’s an expensive time to have chronic medical conditions. We hit our $6000 maximum out of pocket usually by mid April. $1000 a month for my medications alone.
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My cousin whom lived in Cali worked for big Pharma she was telling a pharmacist the price for some pills which were $2 and over heard him telling the patient $20/pill.
A lot of that has to do with all the compliance (among other non-producing expenses) here in the states. If you want to sell that $2 pill for $3 here, you'd shutting down your practice in a couple days.
By the time you pay for all the assistants to be an insurance liaison, someone to control the storage room you had to build to house all the free samples from drug reps, the premiums for your $10 million in malpractice insurance, and all the people you treated that never pay the bills.... ..you end up with a lot of money that has to be passed on to the poor saps that actually pay their bills
Plus, I don't know how official it is but there's two prices for medial care. The 'normal' one if you're using insurance and one you can get if you're paying out of pocket, AND ask for it. A few years ago when my dad was going through his second round of cancer, the local hospital put some pool float looking stockings over his legs. The price was right at $720 a day to rent them. My dad was like ''goddamn, how much can I just buy them and be done with it?''. Next thing you know, it was something like $45 to use them. (and what was really bad, is it had nothing to do with his cancer. Tt was just a cash grab while they avoided the very low percentage change of dieing of a blood clot from laying in bed. I.E. to avoid a lawsuit from the estate and make a couple thou doing it)
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Lots of folks head to Mexico to buy their meds as well. I know some of my family that has done that
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Plus, I don't know how official it is but there's two prices for medial care. The 'normal' one if you're using insurance and one you can get if you're paying out of pocket, AND ask for it. A few years ago when my dad was going through his second round of cancer, the local hospital put some pool float looking stockings over his legs. The price was right at $720 a day to rent them. My dad was like ''goddamn, how much can I just buy them and be done with it?''. Next thing you know, it was something like $45 to use them. (and what was really bad, is it had nothing to do with his cancer. Tt was just a cash grab while they avoided the very low percentage change of dieing of a blood clot from laying in bed. I.E. to avoid a lawsuit from the estate and make a couple thou doing it)
There is 2 prices here too. People with insurance actually pay more here. Rarely did I ever have to take medication. But when I was self employed I told the doctor I couldn't afford it and he gave me the free samples. Same with dentists I paid almost 1/2 price from what they charge my insurance company for the same treatment.
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Earl, I don't know anything about "official" but it's common knowledge that there is the Insurance cost and the non-insurance cost. And, then, there is the Medi-care cost versus the cash cost.
Insurance companies, whether health, or property, are not in the business to make payouts. I have relatives that are still fighting their insurance companies to get compensated for their home damage from Hurrican Harvey. Most give up and take what they are offered which is usually pennies on the dollar. Insurance companies do not lose money.
Medical insurance companies fight you all the way to avoid paying for your treatment. They argue it is not warranted, or you are too old, or there are other options. Anything involving long term treatment is going to the mat.
Dealing with Medicare is a bureaucratic nightmare. The Doctor will give you a ton of paperwork to fill out involving your ailment and your need. Then the doctor must fill out his share justifying why you require his chosen course of treatment. It takes a complete staff that does nothing but fill out forms, negotiate with Medicare, etc.
My son's wife is an RN and she is the manager of a children's clinic. He is insured thru her plan as it is better than his company offered. He works for a small IT company where her clinic is part of a much larger operation of clinics and hospitals in Houston.
I have forgotten what his deductible is but it is more than they can afford. They go to walk in clinics and say Cash when asked how payment will be made. It is usually less than half of what the insurance cost would be and they would not get anything from the insurance due to the high deductible.
Around here, the cash cost is often about 25% of the insurance charged cost.
My Dad was a pharmacist by education, but, for much of his life, he did other things. Around 1960, he was talked into taking a job as a part time pharmacist for a big drugstore in Bryan, Texas. He immediately saw how much profit there was made on prescriptions, but, also how much money was lost on poor business practices and credit losses.
He opened a small pharmacy and called it Ken Wood's Discount Pharmacy and it was cash only. He had one mark up for every item in the store whether it was prescription drugs, over the counter drugs, cigarettes, hot water bottles, whatever. He took the wholesale price that he paid, divided by 0.8 and that was the sales price. That meant some of his prescriptions might be $0.75 instead of the regular pharmacies minimum price of $5.00.
Bryan is next door to College Station, the home of Texas A&M and it had a lot of married college students that were going to school on the Veteran's bill. Most of them had little money, and he did not do credit, yet, I saw him get up at 3 in the morning to go fill a prescription for a baby that was sick that belonged to someone that had no money. He refused to give them credit but he told them what they owed and said, you can pay me when you can. Lousy business policy, but, I don't ever remembered him getting stiffed.
Bryan College Station was less than 50,000 people at the time and within a year, he was filling over 200 prescriptions a day and the big drugstores and the pharmacies that belonged to doctors were filling hardly any.
In 1966, several of the of the competitors approached him and offered to give him a lot of money for his little pharmacy to get him out of town. He took it and moved back to the ranch where I sit now.
He made damn good money on what appeared to be a very low gross margin. He never made that much being a rancher, but, he was happy.
Jason, I know a lot of people that cross over to Mexico to shop for medicine or get dental work performed.
Putting that behind us, people go to the doctor for things that we never went for. I know people that go to the emergency room almost once a week. They don't pay, and the cost of treatment is passed to those that can. People are never cured, they are given just enough medicine to get rid of the symptoms but not enough to permanently get rid of the problem. I have relatives whose kids have had whooping cough almost monthly at times. I never knew anyone that had it.
Until government is forced to live under the same conditions as the people they allegedly serve, things will not get better. they will continue to grow worse.
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Insurance is only good if you don't need it!
Steve, good on your Dad for having an ethical practice! :cheers: Look at Walmart it has low markup but makes up for it with mass volume sales.
I see a lot of stupid practices at work. It seems like all the upper management gets brain surgery to remove their brain. Because you can't even talk common sense to them. It's clear to see problems in our medical system but yet they continue down the same path. :icon_confused:
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I used to work for my Dad. He was a much harder worker than me. LOL
Excellence does not come with a lack of competition. I used to say that all I wanted was an unfair edge. In important matters such as medicine there has to be fair competition and we do not have that anymore. Excellence is no longer a goal.
Government seems to be corrupt as an accepted matter. I think this is world-wide, but, sometimes it exceeds the accepted norm.
Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely-Lord Acton
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Last summer I walked by our ER and noticed two men in black and extra police. Never really thought anything about it. Later, the boss mentioned that Jimmy Carter was in the ER. I would have walked through if I knew that.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/carter-talks-about-hospitalization-winnipeg-1.4291529 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/carter-talks-about-hospitalization-winnipeg-1.4291529)
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I remember faintly something about him being treated. he was a terrible president, but he has done a lot of good since
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Putting that behind us, people go to the doctor for things that we never went for. I know people that go to the emergency room almost once a week. They don't pay, and the cost of treatment is passed to those that can.
Yep. Then you've got people like me that will break bones and not go to the doctor.
I guess it's called ''balance''. :D
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I used to work for my Dad. He was a much harder worker than me. LOL
Mine was the same way !! But I finally did more than him when he was 80 years old :cheers:
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I can only speak on the VA. Met with them in August of 2018 to have blood work and physical completed. Was referred to the TBI center for follow up. For those that aren't aware, I had to land a chinook when I didn't really want to over in Iraq back in 2005 and (....I bounced my head around the cockpit a little bit upon touchdown.).... Appointment was set for 28 Dec 2018. I was contacted on 12 Dec 2018 and told that the appointment needed to be rescheduled due to one of the physicians having a family emergency. I thought the reason to be a bit vague as the appointment was still a few weeks away but ok. Appointment was rescheduled for sometime in May 2019. So now I wait...
This explains a lot :icon_smile: I am NOT a vet but they should get the best care available. Go to the front of the line anywhere they want to go. Welfare rates more than you guys !! UNREAL ! :013:
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Putting that behind us, people go to the doctor for things that we never went for. I know people that go to the emergency room almost once a week. They don't pay, and the cost of treatment is passed to those that can.
Yep. Then you've got people like me that will break bones and not go to the doctor.
I guess it's called ''balance''. :D
NO !!! they call that self employed !! :rock:
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https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/medicare-for-all-means-long-waits-for-poor-care-and-americans-wont-go-for-it-once-they-learn-these-facts (https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/medicare-for-all-means-long-waits-for-poor-care-and-americans-wont-go-for-it-once-they-learn-these-facts)
Here is the problem with that article. Most provinces have private clinics as well. Alberta had private clinics back in the early 90's. I know this because my buddy's dad went to one when he lived here. BC has had private clinics for a while too. We have a private clinic here in our province. One of my friend's went there a few years ago.
There are wait times but that mostly comes down to seriousness of illness and the stupidity of management in charge of these facilities. I remember talking to the woman in charge of the MRI's in our hospital. She said they could easily catch up by staying open an extra 4 hrs a day. But some how they hired someone to over see her which slowed down the process! :rolleyes;
My hospital does all the heart surgeries in the province. It's funny how many of our vendors have had stints put in and bypasses. That being said, nobody waited. They all had surgery that day or the next. How come no one ever mentions that???
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This appears to be a Canadian article https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/waiting-your-turn-2018.pdf (https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/waiting-your-turn-2018.pdf)
I'm glad your private clinics do better. I continue to believe that competition improves quality. :) Your comments about how things could be better if management were better reflects what happens when government runs anything.
Now, there is not a chance in hell that the U.S. will select a single server model. This would greatly reduce side income to quite a few prominent politicians.
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Let's not forget to mention all the people from other countries that happen to be "vacationing" in Canada and receive treatment! From giving birth to cancer treatment, etc. Is that mentioned in the report?
The private clinics here have MRI's and CT scanners. You could have one done in hours if you wanted to.
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Yes, but we are discussing one provider national healthcare. There would be no private system being by proposed at the moment and no private insurance. Be
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People should have access to healthcare IMO.
I'm not going to defend our system, it could be greatly improved. I believe we have 10 times the medical bureaucrats that Germany has on a per patient basis. Nuts!
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I am not disputing that everyone needs medical care...at least to some degree. If you don't like your nose, or your boobs, I think that is on you. But if you are suffering from something that affects your quality of life, then you should be able to get attention.
I am disputing the efficiency of any governmental system to handle such things.
Before we embark upon another government system, (The federal government is a top three employer in this country the last I looked) we need to address all the factors that have driven the cost of care up so much.
Also, we give a lot of lip service to curing various diseases, but, in practice, we want to sell treatment rather than cures.
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Yes, but we are discussing one provider national healthcare. There would be no private system being by proposed at the moment and no private insurance. Be
I understand that but I'm just saying that we are actually 2 tier. We have discussed our 2 tier system at work many times. Are there wait time, yes! But how is paying outrageous insurance better? My one friend who lives in the US had cancer and her Insurance company kept rejecting her treatment? How is that not a wait time? She had to get money from her family for treatment. And how many people have gone bankrupt in the States because of medical conditions? I remember on the old board some posts of next door neighbors that went bankrupt because of medical conditions.
So I ask, what is the solution?
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Also, we give a lot of lip service to curing various diseases, but, in practice, we want to sell treatment rather than cures.
That is very true! I remember my cousin's friend had cancer and went on a special trial. He only popped two pills and the cancer was gone. Yet no signs of this cure making it's way to market!
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As long as money and power are involved there is no solution.
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As long as money and power are involved there is no solution.
So true. :(
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As long as money and power are involved there is no solution.
and that is why a government system will not work. Our elected officials dance like puppets on a string in the presence of money and power while federal employees do not fear for their jobs for either doing nothing, or screwing things up.
It must be competitive free enterprise and the tax system must be changed to encourage R&D and the sharing of new drugs with competitor manufacturing. It should go without saying that the bureaucratic must be greatly reduced and caps put on potential litigation unless criminal intent can be shown.
The introduction of the AHCA enabled prices to skyrocket as compared to prior costs. Typical government
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I agree, Government is Evil! :icon_lol:
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As long as money and power are involved there is no solution.
and that is why a government system will not work. Our elected officials dance like puppets on a string in the presence of money and power while federal employees do not fear for their jobs for either doing nothing, or screwing things up.
It must be competitive free enterprise and the tax system must be changed to encourage R&D and the sharing of new drugs with competitor manufacturing. It should go without saying that the bureaucratic must be greatly reduced and caps put on potential litigation unless criminal intent can be shown.
The introduction of the AHCA enabled prices to skyrocket as compared to prior costs. Typical government
IDK Steve. Sound a lot like socialism to me.
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You are in a better position to make that call than I .
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I do not see socialized medicine here in my lifetime.
Thanks to Obamacare and Keynesian economics, Obama lost a record number of seats, federal and state level. 1049 in 8 years. A record unlikely to be broken. He was the best thing to happen to the Republican party in my lifetime. He is just as responsible for Trump as Carter was for Reagan.
However, the Leninist 'gaslighting' of the children in the educational system should win out over time.
JMO.