IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: gusszgs on October 12 2018, 07:41:52 PM
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Guys TA offers 2 bolt billet main cap kits, either all four or the front 3
My question is, can this or would this be a wise upgrade on a USED stock block in good shape if your going to "push"it shall we say. Not crazy, but say with ported irons and a nice 206 or 212 roller cam with something like a 6262 turbo.
What would be involved in installing these caps? Simply pull the factory caps and insert your bearings into the new billet cap and retorque? (new ARP hardware would be added)
Forgive my ignorance as I've never dug into the little 6 before and I'm far from a machinist. TIA
Jim
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You cannot simply bolt them on. Different shops will probably do things differently, but, at a minimum, they will need to be align honed.
Yes, I think it is worth it if you are going to push it.
check with Joe Buick...that should be a good starting point and don't tell him what the internet said....LOL
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Lol ok thanks Steve, I kinda suspected this but wasn't too sure. Cheers
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For what you're looking to do, just the two centers would be plenty. The corners will need the edges chamfered and the bores align honed.
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Is it that costly to go them all?
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Is it that costly to go them all?
Machining is where the cost is. The caps may have to be chamfered to fit the block. An elongated dial indicator is used to the check bores. Too loose and the caps have to be cut. The align bore is best...as you can take most of the meat from the caps...and not the block...which keeps the crank from moving further up in the block.
Bison has put several minutes worth of 9 second power through a stock bottom end in his blue car.
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I wasn't going to get involved in this, new here and all. Seemed well covered.
No experience w/gn's, but some with chevys, fords, mopars, etc.
All the billet replacement main caps in my experience, needed align bore and honed.The last one was a mopar, which required a special order timing chain. Probably half will. Easy to get, not cheap + the hassle of trial/error, shipping, etc. I prefer the IWIS chain, especially w/mopars.
Few main caps actually break. Fitted billet caps are the modern answer to cap 'walk'. Previously there were 'strapped' caps, 'wedding bands', various girdles, etc.
HTH
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Another thing to consider is the machinist has to make DAMN sure the thrust bearing is square and true before line boring. Since the Buick V6 uses a narrow cap for thrust, it's pretty easy to get it crooked and clamp it down.
If it's off, only 1/2 the bearing area will be available to do the job. With our power levels and converter pressure, that's pretty much a death sentence.
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Line boring, or align boring, is another kettle of fish as it brings its own problems because it moves the crank closer to the cam which means we need a shorter timing chain.
Hopefully your block is not "warped" enuf to need that, but, only the machinist knows. :D
Another problem that may be encountered is the fit of the aftermarket caps to the block. I recall quite a few that failed because the the caps did not index properly to the block saddles and they "walked" under power and there went the bearings.
The most important factor in installing new caps is the machinist...Lo tsa of people running steel caps so there should be some comfort there :D
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Definitely all about the machinist. And to a lesser effect, the tooling.
Line honing takes material all the way around the bores and moves the centerline up towards the cam tunnel.
Line boring, when done right, will leave an ever so slight dirty spot on that very top of the main bores. That way all the material removed will be off the caps. Then a couple of quick strokes with a honing mandrel for a better finish.
Needless to say, doing it right, takes a lot of time. It really depends on if the machinist is in it for the money per clock hour, or anal (giggidy) enough to do all the steps to do it right.
The bad part is, both ways cost the same.
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Might be easier to just run a RJC girdle ?? :chin: Good machinist are out there BUT ya have to find em. :rock:
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https://turbobuick.com/threads/fitting-billet-main-caps-and-line-boring-on-a-cnc-machine-center.408345/ (https://turbobuick.com/threads/fitting-billet-main-caps-and-line-boring-on-a-cnc-machine-center.408345/)
nifty thread on big board
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Might be easier to just run a RJC girdle ?? :chin: Good machinist are out there BUT ya have to find em. :rock:
This or just replace stock bolts with studs. You will be surprised how much a stud will change things, and no machining involved.
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Studs are easy. Based on what I've seen with my own two eyes (and a bore gauge) there is not change in the bore size when changing over.
A girdle does require machining the caps, but pretty much any monkey with a mill and a quality vice can make that happen.
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This thread has evolved all the way to girdles?Did I miss what the goal is somehow? How fast does the original poster intend to go?
I spent my formative years during the evolution of Modified Production racing. I have seen some girdles. JMHO, girdles should be a forced alternative, not a choice.
No aftermarket blocks available?
What happened to stock motored gn's knocking on the 10's w/just bolt on components?
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OP has a mid eleven ltd street car. This is the new super secret project, on a budget so no room for a TA block.
He just doesn't want to join the DOTC club.
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ok, google got me to GLWS.wanna gimme a clue as to DOTC, or is that super secret also?
You might go easy on me, I recently discovered my reading comprehension is the functional equivalent of a soup sandwich, now I also my be dense.
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Drive over the crankshaft
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Sorry. I tend to haze the newbies. I'll try to rein it in. Bullying Is frowned upon in these, the teens.
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He's not a newb. Probably here before you :)
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His car only has just over 11k miles. Hasn't driven it. That's pretty new.
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Wait a minute, a friend followed me 50 miles home in it. I smoked back then. That friend now owns a BBF pro stock pulling truck w/the largest cam/valve springs I have been around.
Mr Woods used to be a goat farmer, who had spent some time looking at the rising sun and had the ability to use seppuku in proper context.
Because I help setup dedicated race cars, I was able to give Grumpy comparison specifications between 2 gm transmissions in '09. He rewarded me with something called a headbang character. How did that th400 work out, Grumpy? A lux liner wagon?
gbsean, the Radius Kid, Mr Brown, Wendy, Zap + many others were on a different board then.
I am not a noob. I am an old fart who has lived my life with the curse of near perfect retention.
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Yea, tbs.com I was over there too. Owner sold it so I followed Steve over here.
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I'm still a goat farmer but I added hair sheep as well LOL and now it seems I am feeding them to coyotes and bobcats. I will 77 on November 11 or Armistice Day which makes me one of the older goats on the place...
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well I got '09 wrong in the previous post. Sorry, I do not remember you. I was not there long as I went back to work.
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I should have quoted the post I was replying to. Sorry Steve.
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saying I'm sorry in 2 consecutive posts, I need to get to bed. You know what they say-
early to bed, early to rise-makes Jack a dull boy.
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Early bird may get the worm
....but second mouse gets the cheese :)
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No reason to apologize. Get your rest. Tomorrow/today is here for the taking.
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Because I help setup dedicated race cars, I was able to give Grumpy comparison specifications between 2 gm transmissions in '09. He rewarded me with something called a headbang character. How did that th400 work out, Grumpy? A lux liner wagon?
Nah not dedicated race cars !! Although Melissa is pushing it a little. (9.3s@144). Hopefully it gets better at BG . Mazda and the wagon are still here but the wagon is goin soon. Got a new truck so I don't use the wagon at all. Mazda is just a blast !! 400s ?? NO !! We still run 200R4s. :player: BUT she does a lot of racing up here so a 400 is in her future :icon_redface: Oh you and this Steve guy are OLD :rofl: This old age junk isn't working !! I work more now than I did when I had a job !! Welcome back. :cheers:
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but the wagon is goin soon.
I remember it as being a large wagon, a Caprice or something. You were considering going to a th400 because of some trans issue. You may have just acquired it.
I have an extraordinary memory, but only of things I pay attention to. Peripheral things like this are more of a self test.Good to correspond again.
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but the wagon is goin soon.
I remember it as being a large wagon, a Caprice or something. You were considering going to a th400 because of some trans issue. You may have just acquired it.
I have an extraordinary memory, but only of things I pay attention to. Peripheral things like this are more of a self test.Good to correspond again.
Ya it had an still has a 700R4. Built a nice 200R4 with all the good parts for it. It is just sitting as a backup for the Mazda or my next "hey that's a nice car" :player: Actually thought about putting it behind a 427 Ford. :icon_eyes:
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behind a 427 Ford. :icon_eyes:
Sooo, you have a low 9 sec race car and own one of the better FE's?
I'm impressed.