IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
General => IHADAV8 Playground => Topic started by: good2win22 on February 23 2015, 09:02:33 PM
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I have this short block sitting in the barn. Stock bottom end with studs on the caps. Mains have been turned .010 and rods have been turned .010. TRW .030 over forged pistons attached to polished 2 dot stock rods with moly rings. Stock deck height and piston to deck measurement is .039.
My quandary is this... I have a set of untouched stock 8445 heads but I have yet to send them out for machining and I also have a set of aluminum TA heads that are ready to install. The TA heads have been set up for a roller cam and I would have to set up the irons for whatever cam is decided upon. My concern is that I won't be able to get enough static compression to really benefit from the aluminum heads without further machining the deck to get a lower deck to piston measurement. The thinnest head gasket I have been able to find is the cometic at .020. When calculating the static compression using the TA heads, the highest compression ratio I can come up with is 8.4 to 1. Also wanted to mention that I have a set of 1.65 roller rockers that I can use on either set of heads and studs for both sets
My goals for this engine is for it to be a daily driver,when the weather is nice, but also be able to throw the alky to it and run a high 10 in the quarter.
Appreciate y'all's thoughts on whether or not to go aluminum or get the irons ready for install. Also, thoughts on a cam. Been eyeing that 210/215 roller from full throttle but I'm not against sticking with a flat tappet
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Things always change Jason. Things like they are, if you want the cam you can have it for what I've got in it. Then all you need to do is get hold of Earl for a better set of pistons with valve reliefs so the valves will clear. That would let you use the TA heads and get the most out of the engine. :D Not a lot of changes and not much money involved to get where you want to go. :cheers:
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What turbo and convertor are you planning to use...and how much boost?
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Thanks Charlie, I'll give that some consideration.
I am looking at having Brian build the 6262 with an .85 exhaust housing and with Jake overhauling the barn tranny. I was really pleased with his work on the last transmission he did for me. I will also ask him for the same 3000 stall converter that I got from him as well. Looking to push 20-25 pounds of boost with alky.
If using the irons, how would you set them up?
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You're gonna be in tough trying to crack the 10's...or 7.0 in the 1/8th with unported irons. I run 135 lb springs with this flat tappet...but I don't recommend it. I'd go the roller route...and sleep well at nite. I run as much stock junk as possible...jus t to piss guys off with the high dollar engines and 'cool guy' stuff. :)
Think you mentioned your track is now 1/8th mile...now here's the rub. You can't lock that convertor in the 1/8th...and a LU convertor unlocked...is incredibly inefficient. You can see where I'm going with this. I run a NL...for a reason.
If you go to a 1/4 mile track...can that convertor withstand being locked at WOT? The only two I'm aware of is the multi disc Vig...and the 9/11.
Take some time and have a read...especia lly Dustys explanation on page 3.
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/threads/fastest-times-with-lockup-tc.423322/ (http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/threads/fastest-times-with-lockup-tc.423322/)
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I'll have to ask Jake about the quality of his converters. As I recall, it was locking around the 100mph mark last time I ran the 1/4 but I was hitting the traps around 108ish. I never did get to run another 1/4 with the 981 springs before selling the white T.
Porting the iron heads... I assume bowl work, touching up the short radius side and gasket matching? I can do that but always worry about not taking out enough and then taking out too much and making them flow equal.
Charlie give me a shout when you can. I need to start a budget and you know I would like to have that cam!
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Need the green and I'll see what I paid for it Jason. :D
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That's a good read. Thanks Brad!
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Jason, I have no clue about what to do about bowl work, porting etc...that's why I hand my heads to Joebuick. :) There are head porters...and there are head porters...and Joe's the latter. :) Those pics I put up last fall show a stock doghouse...it's not stock. Joe backfilled/contoured/polished it to match the Champion stock appearing intake...and it's also ported to match Steve Monroes 62mm TB. I also run a Champion 3/4 inch spacer...again ...for a reason. :) I have this bad habit of listening to the very best. :)
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The big question is if you want someone to do it or if you want to learn how. Either way I can hep here Jason. I don't remember how many heads I've done over the years but if you want to do the cast or aluminum ones I can either show you how or do the work myself. Taught Guess on the big board and you can ask him how and what I do. :cheers:
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I have a set of TA aluminum heads here...with further porting done by Nick Micale. I'm gonna bolt them to this .030 over engine/rotating assembly I have. Static compression... no idea. But I know gobs of boost will make HP. :)
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You're gonna be in tough trying to crack the 10's...or 7.0 in the 1/8th with unported irons. I run 135 lb springs with this flat tappet...but I don't recommend it. I'd go the roller route...and sleep well at nite. I run as much stock junk as possible...jus t to piss guys off with the high dollar engines and 'cool guy' stuff. :)
Think you mentioned your track is now 1/8th mile...now here's the rub. You can't lock that convertor in the 1/8th...and a LU convertor unlocked...is incredibly inefficient. You can see where I'm going with this. I run a NL...for a reason.
If you go to a 1/4 mile track...can that convertor withstand being locked at WOT? The only two I'm aware of is the multi disc Vig...and the 9/11.
Take some time and have a read...especia lly Dustys explanation on page 3.
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/threads/fastest-times-with-lockup-tc.423322/ (http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/threads/fastest-times-with-lockup-tc.423322/)
Interesting thread...nice to see the nuthuggers over there are still accusing everyone else to be a nuthugger lol
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What do you run for a converter Steve Nuthugger or nonnuthuggert :P
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What do you run for a converter Steve Nuthugger or nonnuthuggert :P
Nice! :headz:
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vigilante in one car...restalle d converter in the other
broke a 9/11 and put the vig back in after trying the 9/11
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If I was gonna run a LU convertor,..it'd be a Vig multidisc. Norbs ran a 2800 Vig multidisc on his low ten 134 mph blast. Slip rate checked in at 3 percent. The only thing he mentioned about it is that it sounded like a bunch of marbles rattling around in it at idle. I'll assume the clutch plates were hitting together.
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You cruise much with that Art Carr Brad?
My car spends a lot of time on the hwy wonder how much warmer the tranny would get with a NLU
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the clutches rattle in the vig-the five disc version is the worst. The only thing I don't like about them is that they lock and unlock with emphasis when they lock up or unlock in normal driving.
The nlu units are not worse than converters in the before lock up days when it comes to heat....an external cooler is all the insurance you need.
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This year will be the first in 3 years for the car to see the street...and I can't wait. I cruised it all over hells half acre with the AC convertor...an d the trans temp gauge never showed it running warm. I'm not advocating NL convertors...i t's just what works best for me.
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Almost forgot Larry. I run a huge trans cooler.
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Here's the cam card of the cam that I'm hoping to get from charlie. Springs that are currently on the TA heads have a closed pressure of 140 and open pressure of 355, will it be enough or is it too much?
If not and just for GP, how do you calculate for spring pressure?
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I suspect the springs are right about right for that much lift. I would go to the Comp site, look up the cam and see what Springs they suggest with the cam. Then compare them with yours
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Did a little research and found a site explaining how to measure for spring bind but nothing for how to calculate for spring rates. Been to the comp site Steve and this cam is no where to be found. Going to give them a call tomorrow to see what they have to say.
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It's a custom Jason. Bring me $225 and take it home tomorrow. Someone got hold of my card and have screwed up my account. :013: Fighting with the bank right now as well as mastercard over it. :icon_evil:
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Spring rate is pounds per inch. If you measure the spring pressure at a certain point, then compress it another inch, the additional reading is the rate.
Normally there's not enough room to move an inch. In that case, you add 1/2" and double the extra poundage.
Basically if you have a 300 pound per inch spring that's 125 closed.... then open it 1/2" you'll have 125 + 150 for a total of 275 over the nose.
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Thanks Earl.
I guess I should ask the question another way. How do you calculate for the springs closed pressure to keep it from bouncing off the seat? I don't believe that the cam would have anything to do with this calculation but would come into play when considering the amount of total lift.
From the spec sheet on the TA heads, I've done some calculating for the installed springs as follows:
Cam max lift: INT .548 Exh .544
Spring installed height: 1.855
Compressed spring height with cam max lift: INT 1.307 Exh 1.311
Spring coil bind height: 1.035
Net safety margin before binding: INT .272 Exh .276
What I don't know is what ratio rocker was used when comp came up with these specs. I guess the thing to do anyway would be to clay up the piston and throw the heads on without a gasket and see if the valves clear the piston.
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If I was gonna run a LU convertor,..it'd be a Vig multidisc. Norbs ran a 2800 Vig multidisc on his low ten 134 mph blast. Slip rate checked in at 3 percent. The only thing he mentioned about it is that it sounded like a bunch of marbles rattling around in it at idle. I'll assume the clutch plates were hitting together.
I can attest to the Marbles...I cant tell you how many times I stopped and looked under my car and said WTF is that!! lol
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. I guess the thing to do anyway would be to clay up the piston and throw the heads on without a gasket and see if the valves clear the piston.
I think you should do that anyway, especially when using non stock parts. For the little time it takes it can sure save a catastrofic problem.
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Jason...when you figure out what convertor yer' gonna use...talk to Bison about exhaust size for that 6262. With this 16930, I'd recommend a .63 Garret if you're mostly street driving for quick spool/driveability. Personally I like the .63 Precision...as I like a little lag for the street. I don't like the idea of jumping on the loud pedal and the car getting out from under me. Everyone has their preference.
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On the white T, I tried both the garret and precision .63. I had a TE44 and preferred the precision over the garret with that coverter from Jake. That garret spooled that the 44 like nobody's business and I found myself babying the car when street driving. That's just me though....
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Charlie,
I was hoping to pick up that cam from you today. Gimme a shout!
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Hey fellas... Looking to hear from ya'll about timing chain recommendation s for a roller cam.
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Apparently the TA chain is the go to piece from what I hear.
I have a ProGear in mine its been good so far little noisy.
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Apparently the TA chain is the go to piece from what I hear.
I have a ProGear in mine its been good so far little noisy.
Didn't someone just have one of theirs break with easy driving?
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Apparently the TA chain is the go to piece from what I hear.
I have a ProGear in mine its been good so far little noisy.
Didn't someone just have one of theirs break with easy driving?
I was mistaken. It was a weber chain that broke
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Lotsa roller chains will actually stretch faster than a stock single chain so research can be useful if in doubt of brand. I think RollMaster has good rep and offers a pre-stretched chain in at least some versions.
An old trick that seemed to help was to submerge the new chain in oil that was heated to about 200 degrees for about an hour. A moly additive in the oil was suggested. This seems to have increased the life of the chain substantially. this probably only works on chevies so....:)
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Ruh Roh I got my chain from Webber........ ..
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It broke on Keith's car but we don't know if it was the chain's fault, or something else for sure. Car has run okay since the engine was rebuilt
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Lotsa roller chains will actually stretch faster than a stock single chain so research can be useful if in doubt of brand. I think RollMaster has good rep and offers a pre-stretched chain in at least some versions.
An old trick that seemed to help was to submerge the new chain in oil that was heated to about 200 degrees for about an hour. A moly additive in the oil was suggested. This seems to have increased the life of the chain substantially. this probably only works on chevies so.... :)
Your right about them stretching. When I was running that 429, I would change the timing set every spring.
I was curious if these sets would stretch as quickly since we are turning two less sets of springs
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http://forums.hotrod.com/hot-rod/70/1292542/pit-stop/timing-chain-slack-test/ (http://forums.hotrod.com/hot-rod/70/1292542/pit-stop/timing-chain-slack-test/)
According to Isky..
".. An excessively stretched chain can retard cam timing, as much as four cam degrees, because of the slack in the links. Also, even though most of the valve timing figures in this catalog are listed at split overlap, most of our camshafts are ground from one to two cam degrees advanced to allow for eventual stretch in the timing chain..."
Just means that it will makes more power up top later on down the road. ;)
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IT was my chain that had broke, it was the one from Weber and I never found the reason that the chain broke other than it just broke. I did go with the Roll Master set on the rebuild BUT I had to ream the holes on the cam gear to get it to line up.
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What type of cam and what sort of spring pressure?
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From yall's signature looks like the same cam. Springs?
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I believe that mine are the PAC -1201-12 from Weber.
weberpowerprod ucts.com/3-8l-turbo-buick-v6-valve-springs-p/pac-1201-12.htm
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yes sir same set up eeeep I guess I'm looking at a chain....
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I suspect they have sold a whole bunch of them and that is the only one that I remember breaking....
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yes sir same set up eeeep I guess I'm looking at a chain....
Not so sure I would be too worried about that chain. I bet they've sold more than a few and wouldn't be using it unless it was proven to them. Probably the first hitch in their giddy up
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The only thing that I can see that may have caused my chain to break is compressor surge, my car suffers with compressor surge with the setup that I have , and I remember when mine broke, that I was at a point that the car would surge and there is alot of jerking involved when it does surge, to me the has to put a strain on the internal parts IMO. maybe I am wrong please feel free to comment on this because I can't find another reason for it breaking, Bill and the owner at Weber (cant remember is name) are great ppl to work with, I have nothing but good things to say about them. A+ in my book.
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It really does exist
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I believed
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Studly.
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Appears to be balanced.
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So I had this same set of headers on the white T and was really discouraged as the flange began to corrode. The stainless stayed somewhat decent looking but the flange was rusty. So I masked off the stainless pipes with some 100 mph tape and blasted the flange. Then I painted with some VHT extreme high heat header paint. What do you think? Any ideas on cleaning the stainless pipes?
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Maybe some vinegar. Or some kind of polish if you want them to be shiny.
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A little Black Friday 25% off caspers purchase
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I love Buick 'junk'. :rock:
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So Spina is "reboxing" sensors now?
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At 25% off, I don't care.
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Devil is in the details. Spent some time at the parts washer. Then the blast cabinet and finally a little paint.
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Looks good, just make sure your alternator can ground to the motor through the bracket. Seen far too many powder coated LSx brackets cause charging system hiccups.
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Looking real good!
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Looks real purdy. Like Mike says...make sure everything is well grounded.
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Looks good, just make sure your alternator can ground to the motor through the bracket. Seen far too many powder coated LSx brackets cause charging system hiccups.
Will do mike. I'll be removing the paint from all mating surfaces with my die grinder. I've been through the grounding issues once before and would prefer not to go through them again
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I think Brad and Charlie know but for the rest of ya'll, I changed direction a little bit on the barn motor. I ditched the stock rods and crank and went with forged internals with billet caps. If anyone needs a stock crank, balanced rods with TRW .030, gimme a shout. Also have a set of stock heads that will need freshening up.
The question I have today is on the roll pin for the cam sensor. I plan on shimming up a couple of sensors so I can use one and have a spare. Will any hardened roll pin of proper dimensions work on the gear? I can't seem to locate a part number for the roll pin. Thanks in advance you smart guys
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Same roll pin is used on the sbc hei distributor Jason. AZ used to have them in the help section.
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Jason...are those billet caps chamfered at the same angle to where they fit in the block?
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Jason...are those billet caps chamfered at the same angle to where they fit in the block?
Yes sir.
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Do they come properly cut these days?
Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk
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Probably a good choice to upgrade the rotating assembly to avoid becoming a member of the dotc club. I can't wait for pix of the build. The insides of an engine fascinate me.
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Do they come properly cut these days?
Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk
No they did not
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Probably a good choice to upgrade the rotating assembly to avoid becoming a member of the dotc club. I can't wait for pix of the build. The insides of an engine fascinate me.
Pics coming soon
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Making a parts list...
Thoughts on re-using flex plate bolts on the crank and converter?
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Ive used the same flex plate to crank bolts even through the flex plate crack/squeak of the late nineties. I got some new torque converter bolts from my buddies when I picked up the new converter or I'd be using the originals there too. But that said they are cheap. Arp or someone probably makes some good replacements.
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Making a parts list...
Thoughts on re-using flex plate bolts on the crank and converter?
This is one time that I'd say upgrade to a better flex plate in regards to a short block part. Easier than pulling the transmission to change a cracked stocker. I raced a SBC nitrous assisted 77 Nova in my late teens to early 20's and I cracked flex plates left, right and centre. Not one to date on my GN tho.
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Flex plate bolt number from ARP is 100-2901.
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I have a new flex plate on the list. Thanks for the part number.
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Momma and the kids along with the in-laws are off to Riodoso for the week. That gave me some free time with the barn motor in between taking care of animals. Here's some pics of the bottom end all buttoned up. Main bearing clearances were .0015 and rods were .0016 with the number 5 at .0015. Kind of tight for what I'm familiar with assembling but hey, stock specs are way tighter and looser at the same time .0005 to .0026. Glad I checked your site Steve when talking to the machinist. I think he hit it on the nail!
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Looks nice!
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Very nice and with those clearances you should be happy with the oil pressure.
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Larry, since earl has been missing, I went with a timing cover and pump from TA. Oil passages looked really nice right out of the box which surprised me as the main caps still needed the corners touched up.
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Looks like a stout shortblock!
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Looks like a stout shortblock!
With the TA heads he'll blow my 1/8th mile time outta da' water. :rock:
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Damn! how did I miss that? That's going to be a bad bitch.
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With the suspension work to hook it up in thinking it will crack the 5s in the eighth. At least that's what I'm predicting.
It's gonna be a bad street car. Especially with all that chrome and the sofa for a front seat. I dig it.
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With the 6262 it'll go 10.2x all in on a low 1.5 launch in good air. I'm arriving at this number...as Bison squeezed into the 9's on a 1.48 launch with a 6265...which makes another 30HP all in.
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My goals are not for a low 10 second car. My goals are to have a powerplant capable of reaching and taking the abuse of multiple high 9 / low 10 second passes but not drive it that hard. My theory is it that it will stay together longer from high 10 / low 11 second passes. It could blow doing either. I guess I'm just hoping that I can make more of the slower passes before it does
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Stay out of KR and it'll last forever. :) Set it for 6.90 to 7.20...be quick on the tree...and you won't lose many races. When you have a lead on a guy...ease off the loud pedal...and coast for the wins. Don't show anyone what the car is capable of. :)
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Jason...what brand of head gaskets are you using? I got stuck using Felpros on this engine in the car now. I think their quality level has slipped.
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I went with felpro 1026
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My goals are not for a low 10 second car. My goals are to have a powerplant capable of reaching and taking the abuse of multiple high 9 / low 10 second passes but not drive it that hard. My theory is it that it will stay together longer from high 10 / low 11 second passes. It could blow doing either. I guess I'm just hoping that I can make more of the slower passes before it does
Sounds like a repeat of our conversation a couple years ago? A low 11's car makes an awesome street car and competitive at the track if you kill the tree like Scoobum said. My experience is it's a big jump from high 10's to the high 9's.
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for the effort required, I think I would build a TA block or pick up a Stage block and get some real beef around the rotating assembly
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for the effort required, I think I would build a TA block or pick up a Stage block and get some real beef around the rotating assembly
I agree Steve. Can I get a mulligan? Only thing else I could've done to this block would be to girdle it and the added machine shop costs along with the rotating assembly and custom slugs would have put me into the price range of a stage block.
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Heads, intake, timing cover, SFI balancer and crank sensor installed. 8.5 pushrods worked perfectly. If I did my math correctly, and there was quite a bit of recalculating, final static compression should be 9.28 to 1
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Wish I had a Barn motor like that!
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Was there a sale on blue tape? ;)
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Looks good! Gonna be a killer engine!
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Was there a sale on blue tape? ;)
LOL! Just trying to keep things clean
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I love that your engine is painted the exact inverse of the LS2 in our TBSS, our top end is detailed in black/grey and the lower is raw aluminum. Kinda wish I had just clear coated the intake because every nick and scratch on the grey shows.
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So, can we get a recap of what went in?
I'm seeing the aluminum heads so the TA heads went on. Port match, bowl clean up, other mods?
I'm guessing you went with the charlief1 roller cam?
You went fancy recip. Is this a stroker? Total cubes? Whos stuff? Pistons?
Maybe this is all secret.
Looking forward to you "bustin' it off" and takin her to the track.
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So, can we get a recap of what went in?
I'm seeing the aluminum heads so the TA heads went on. Port match, bowl clean up, other mods?
I'm guessing you went with the charlief1 roller cam?
You went fancy recip. Is this a stroker? Total cubes? Whos stuff? Pistons?
Maybe this is all secret.
Looking forward to you "bustin' it off" and takin her to the track.
TA heads bowl cleaned up and port match. TA 1.55 roller rockers, Morel roller lifters.
Got the cam from Charlie. 210/214
Not a stroker. Eagle crank, Molner rods, CP pistons custom ordered. Block is stock bored .030
TA timing cover. SFI balancer and have an SFI flex plate on the way
Felpro gaskets throughout
Stock intake ported by champion.
Still have a few items to get as well as pick up the tranny from Jake when he's done with it.
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Just wondering, if you bought pistons anyway was there a reason you didn't go with a stroke crank/rods?
Cubes make power.
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To be honest Rich, stroking the thing never crossed my mind in the beginning. Lots of folks have asked, especially the people selling me the crank and rods, but the additional machine work and then to weaken the center section for clearance, just didn't sell me. Just my thoughts and like Steve already mentioned, should've just gotten a stage or TA block to begin with
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Not to worry. With high hp Buick engines there is usually a second and third chance if you stay with Buick power and run it hard.
I was just wondering. I'm sure your little 235 will do plenty well. If I had the money I'd being doing up my 4.1. I'm living vicariously though you and others who do instead of just dream like me. And you are doing a GREAT job. Keep up the good work.
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Stage and TA blocks bring their own problems...Sta ge One vs Stage Two, even fire, odd fire, uncommon oiling systems, parts availability, cost, etc. Unquestionably, they are stronger and were built for abuse and high rpm. The additional head bolts are really nice.
My gut feeling is that the 3.8 block is a safer choice than the 4.1 once one is into the tens. This is based upon experience and not science. I think the 3.8 will make the same hp because it will accommodate a bit more boost time and again without splitting.
Spending money on forged cranks, good rods, and lightweight pistons will allow one to approach 6000 rpm a lot of times without tossing something. Lightweight pistons usually have their own problems arising from the need to use more cylinderwall clearance due to the piston alloy growth with heat. This rounds off the rings fairly quickly so it may be better to use a heavier, low growth piston for a driver. Also makes it more important to keep it under six thousand, imo.
I tend to think girdles are not worth the effort on a well built engine. I suspect many will disagree with me on this.
It's my opinion that high quality machine work and a really good fuel system are the two most important things in achieving long life in a strong street engine. Steel caps are rally a good investment IF the machine shop understands they don't just bolt on, followed by an align bore/hone.
18 degs of timing will make almost as much power as 24 degs of timing but will make an engine more linear in its approach to the detonation line.
Building an engine with nine second rotating parts will make one that is much more fun to drive in the tens for a much longer time. As pointed out above, there are not that many cars that will run 10.5 and even fewer that will do it every week end.
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I will agree about the steel caps. I'm cheap so I'll just do the middle two. This along with a forged crank will hope fully keep that turning and not flexing.
It is my belief that the stock crank flexes a lot. Then with the stock caps letting it get out of shape bad things just happen, then add in the detonation which really gets the crank out of shape. Next thing ya know, something is flying out the side of the block providing ventilation no one wants.
No amount of studs, rod bolts or fancy rods can make up for a forged crank and billet caps to keep it in line.
I have to concur with the need of a fuel system. Without that detonation WILL get the best of any setup.
I know Jason will have the fuel sorted out. And he has the forged and billet stuff in there. I still think with his suspension setup it is gonna be one wicked street car. Just have to turn up the wick and let her eat.
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Damm that engine turned into a $$$$ pit fast :icon_smile: . Amazing how they grow.. Good Luck with it .. What are ya running a chip or a Fast system ?? Remember DON'T DETONATE it and it will live .
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Dan, I am glad to see you are still with us....Happy New year!
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Stage and TA blocks bring their own problems...Sta ge One vs Stage Two, even fire, odd fire, uncommon oiling systems, parts availability, cost, etc. Unquestionably, they are stronger and were built for abuse and high rpm. The additional head bolts are really nice.
My gut feeling is that the 3.8 block is a safer choice than the 4.1 once one is into the tens. This is based upon experience and not science. I think the 3.8 will make the same hp because it will accommodate a bit more boost time and again without splitting.
Spending money on forged cranks, good rods, and lightweight pistons will allow one to approach 6000 rpm a lot of times without tossing something. Lightweight pistons usually have their own problems arising from the need to use more cylinderwall clearance due to the piston alloy growth with heat. This rounds off the rings fairly quickly so it may be better to use a heavier, low growth piston for a driver. Also makes it more important to keep it under six thousand, imo.
I tend to think girdles are not worth the effort on a well built engine. I suspect many will disagree with me on this.
It's my opinion that high quality machine work and a really good fuel system are the two most important things in achieving long life in a strong street engine. Steel caps are rally a good investment IF the machine shop understands they don't just bolt on, followed by an align bore/hone.
18 degs of timing will make almost as much power as 24 degs of timing but will make an engine more linear in its approach to the detonation line.
Building an engine with nine second rotating parts will make one that is much more fun to drive in the tens for a much longer time. As pointed out above, there are not that many cars that will run 10.5 and even fewer that will do it every week end.
I don't plan on hitting 6k on the tach unless the throttle sticks. Going to stick with the stock shift points until testing reveals something different. This cam is said to have a monster mid range. Time and testing will tell.
I haven't researched the stage blocks very much. Always considered them elusive if not unobtainable and the TA block was just out of the price range when this project started. More drooling about the aluminum block than researching.
Glad to hear we have the same thoughts about over building the bottom end.
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Rich, I have yet to step up the suspension on the limited. I'm going to get to it, just going to take some time. I need to do an axle and diff swap as well.
I believe I have the fuel system in check. -8 feed and -6 return. Right now there is dw300 in the tank.
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Damm that engine turned into a $$$$ pit fast :icon_smile: . Amazing how they grow.. Good Luck with it .. What are ya running a chip or a Fast system ?? Remember DON'T DETONATE it and it will live .
Definately not as easy on the pocket book as I was hoping for. I did purchase a fair amount of items second hand, so not as much as one would think. Those TA heads are brand new second hand. Big money was spent on the rotating assembly.
Going to run a chip from Eric, that's another item I need to get to ordering. I don't think I want to deal with a modded ECM so no low z injectors. I'm familiar with powerlogger so going to throw a wide band into the mix to help with tuning and my education of tuning these things.
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Jason, the mid range is good on that cam, but, I think you will find with your combination that it will feel like you down shifted at 5000 rpm and 6000 will there in a split second. I think shifting at 5800 will drop the rpm to about 5000 on the next gear. Should be no problem with your components. It will not have slowed down at 5800 but it will pump the lifters about 6200 or so. Being that it will be up on the cam at 5000, there will be little loss shifting at 5800.
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Dan, I am glad to see you are still with us....Happy New year!
Ya still poke around the Buick sites. Should be racing them next year. Branching off on other cars though. Figure if I want to play around now is the time to do it :rock: Happy New Year to everyone :cheers:
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Dan, I am glad to see you are still with us....Happy New year!
Ya still poke around the Buick sites. Should be racing them next year. Branching off on other cars though. Figure if I want to play around now is the time to do it :rock: Happy New Year to everyone :cheers:
Im glad you stop by. Im thinking your buick powered rx7 fits right in. Do you have other irons in the fire?
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Spoke with Eric this evening. Gave him all the technical info and spoke about goals of the setup. Went over some numbers and talked about his ability of flow matching a set of injectors just a tad bigger than 80's. I'd really like to get some 83's. But with not really pushing the envelope of the build, 80's should suffice. Sorry Mike. I'm staying with the stock un modded ECM. Classic 5.7 for 93/alky and another chipped for 110. Should be here in a week or so. Still waiting on the tranny....
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;Dan, I am glad to see you are still with us....Happy New year!
Ya still poke around the Buick sites. Should be racing them next year. Branching off on other cars though. Figure if I want to play around now is the time to do it :rock: Happy New Year to everyone :cheers:
Im glad you stop by. Im thinking your buick powered rx7 fits right in. Do you have other irons in the fire?
Mazda is a blast !! Goin in for a halo an some other safety stuff so we can go racing with it. Have a new Shelby CSX 427 Cobra. All alum BB Ford. Looking for a 65 Griffith 200 or 400. It's basically a TVR with a small block Ford. Only weighs in @ 18/1900#s :player: Keeping the Mazda but buying old Ford performance cars like I had before Buicks. Like a second childhood :rock:
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Spoke with Eric this evening. Gave him all the technical info and spoke about goals of the setup. Went over some numbers and talked about his ability of flow matching a set of injectors just a tad bigger than 80's. I'd really like to get some 83's. But with not really pushing the envelope of the build, 80's should suffice. Sorry Mike. I'm staying with the stock un modded ECM. Classic 5.7 for 93/alky and another chipped for 110.
I think once ya get the alky dialed in ya won't need the 110 chip. :cheers:
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Jason, the mid range is good on that cam, but, I think you will find with your combination that it will feel like you down shifted at 5000 rpm and 6000 will there in a split second. I think shifting at 5800 will drop the rpm to about 5000 on the next gear. Should be no problem with your components. It will not have slowed down at 5800 but it will pump the lifters about 6200 or so. Being that it will be up on the cam at 5000, there will be little loss shifting at 5800.
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Do we have any data on the torque convertor with this engine? RPM drop at the shift points? What it flashes to off the line? RPM at the traps? Slip percentage?
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No data yet Brad. I went with a 3k stall. The fella who is doing my tranny is now doing his own TC's.
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Parts are piling up...
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Sweeeeet
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Are we really still calling this a barn motor?
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Are we really still calling this a barn motor?
And that is a pretty nice barn while we are on this topic. :O
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Are we really still calling this a barn motor?
That's what I'm calling it. Had a friend growing up who built a small block chevy in his bedroom, and we called it "the bedroom motor." He ended up putting it in a Monza that he still has to this day. We always name stuff, makes it a bit more personal
I'll start another thread when I do the swap
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Racing Jason Cramer delivers down pipe and 3" exhaust with y-pipe....
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Jason has top notch stuff.
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I need that ypipe please and the exhaust pipe please.
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I need that ypipe please and the exhaust pipe please.
I have another y-pipe that you can have. It isn't as pretty though. I could blast it and throw on some high heat paint if you like.
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That exhaust is sexy.
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Jason did you see Gavin's video where he welded the clamps to stop them from flexing?
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Very nice!
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Jason did you see Gavin's video where he welded the clamps to stop them from flexing?
I did see that Larry. The band clamps are new to me with this exhaust system. They weren't part of the package when I put it on the white T. I will say that I used band clamps on my diesel pick up exhaust and fell in love with them. These band clamps don't appear to me to have the quality of the clamps that I used on my truck. They are a bit on the thin side as far as thickness goes.
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yeah band clamps are nice, makes it easy to take apart if the need ever arises.
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I have another y-pipe that you can have. It isn't as pretty though. I could blast it and throw on some high heat paint if you like.
I really do need a ypipe but I don't know what I'm going to do yet. It's the only piece of exhaust I have that isn't stainless and mines rusted through. I don't plan on driving my car anytime soon but I was checking out cramers exhaust, I'll probably go that route. I'll definatly let you know though, thanks for the offer!!!
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Very nice! That thing should haul.
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This shit is awkward as hell to try and buff on bench grinder. But I like the looks. I'll be honest, i didn't polish all of the pipe. Only what you can see from above... Is that lazy?
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Quit dicking around. Grab a can of race gas...get to the track...and call me. :) :rock:
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Man, that thing is gonna fly.be ready to get booted for lack of safety equipment.
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Man, that thing is gonna fly.be ready to get booted for lack of safety equipment.
He has no clue. :) :rock:
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Quit dicking around. Grab a can of race gas...get to the track...and call me. :) :rock:
I have a chip for race gas and a front mount.... Your old one! I may have to do that if that tranny doesn't get finished soon. it would be interesting to see what the old engine and tranny can do before the swap.
BTW, engine and tranny that is coming out will be up for sale.
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Is it original to the car? I would mothball it of it is. Your kids can turn it into gold in twenty years.
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Quit dicking around. Grab a can of race gas...get to the track...and call me. :) :rock:
I have a chip for race gas and a front mount.... Your old one! I may have to do that if that tranny doesn't get finished soon. it would be interesting to see what the old engine and tranny can do before the swap.
BTW, engine and tranny that is coming out will be up for sale.
Jason...get out to the track with the drivetrain that's in it now. Plenty of fuel in that race chip as that's the one I ran the 6.7 with. Make a 330 foot pass...and get your foot out of it. Come back around and check the PL log for fueling in low/high gear. If all looks well...go out and go the full 1/8. Once again...come back around and check your PL log. You can start making your fueling adjustments if all looks well. We talked on the phone how easy it is to set up the fueling with race gas. If they knew how easy it was...they'd crap their pants. :)
Jason...what turbo is on the engine between the frame rails now?
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Right now there is a little ta49 in there
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I believe grumpy and his daughter went nines in her car with a ta49. So for a "little" turbo it moves plenty of air.
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Right now there is a little ta49 in there
Stock convertor? What size exhaust housing?
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I believe grumpy and his daughter went nines in her car with a ta49. So for a "little" turbo it moves plenty of air.
It was a 6776 with a 9/11 convertor...al ky...5.7 chip...3.5 MAF and Translator. I'll take a flyer on Russ building the engine...doing the heads...and building the transmission. 9.9x at 138.
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So, the ta49 is a 10 sec turbo. Nothing to sneeze at.
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So, the ta49 is a 10 sec turbo. Nothing to sneeze at.
J Huber in Jersey cracked the 10's with a 49...just barely tho. :)
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He has no clue. :) :rock:
lol, riiight?
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Brad,
I have no intentions of hurting this drivetrain in the event of selling it or holding onto it for future use. That being said, I ain't pushing it. I built the barn motor for beating on.
As far as the combo for what is in the car right meow: stock block, stock heads with 981 springs, nice new timing chain, new water pump, 160 t-stat, the TA49 has a garret .63 on the exhaust, the tranny is stock with a D5, 60's in the intake, old school precision FMC, racetronix 340 pump with hot wire, -8 feed, -6 return, accufab FPR, maf translator for with an lt1 maf, stock elbow on a stock down pipe, stock headers, some crappy aftermarket dual exhaust, cold air intake thru the front of the header panel behind the drivers side head lights, and your old chip pump gas/alky TT chip that wasn't burned for a front mount.
That's about all I can remember...
Rich,
I may put it up in a corner of the barn, I just haven't decided yet. With it out of the limited, I have the parts to do a conversion on a non turbo buick car. I have been really thinking of finding a Gbody station wagon and making that something fun.
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I'd love to live vicariously through a long roof turbo. You have my support. If I can get this job situation under control I'd do my own, haha. I just look at all the cars that seem to bring the biggest money are documented and have the original stuff. I know I have Rubbermaid tubs full of the stuff I pulled off over the years .
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I'd love to live vicariously through a long roof turbo. You have my support.
Mine too :cool;